Gentlemen, I have seen the face of idiocy.

[AstralFire]

And it is the road planner in Manassas, VA.

From an obscene amount of roads with the same name, different street type (Richmond Street, Richmond Avenue, Richmond Road...)

To highways that change name for the length of like three city blocks before changing back

To highways that change name three or four times in about five city blocks

To the crowning jewel of this regalia of retardation: A road where two one-way streets meet head on, with your only indication of the turn being faded and cracked symbols painted onto the asphalt. God, I just about had a heart attack when I turned the corner and saw a stream of cars driving towards me at 40 MPH.

[Worira]

Someone's been playing too much SimCity.

[Allan Surgite]

Roads are designed by the DENSA organisation, even though what roads really need is someone with common sense and planning.

And good look finding any common sense in this world.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Compared to an average car journey in Britain, that sounds rather tame, to be honest.

[Partof1]

That's pretty scary. The worst we have here in Alberta are roads that are different names depending on the direction you are going.

[mangosta71]

They probably did it that way to confuse the Union troops.

[Keld Denar]

I take it you've never driven in Boston?

Yea, that whole bit about streets changing names every few blocks? That was invented in Boston. Also, origionality of street names is something that is woefully underutilized there. Every borough has an Arlington, Washington, and Market street. Sometimes they are the same street.

Also, as part of the state emissions exam, the tech is required to unhook your blinker. Why? I dunno, but everyone has to get that exam, and nobody EVER uses the blinker.

Oh, and there is the little bit about how a driver with a MA drivers licsense is called a M*******. I'll give you a hint, it MIGHT have something to do with their legenary ability to cut you off in a manner of INCHES.

[SurlySeraph]

True, but Boston's roads were laid out by cows fleeing their pastures during riots. Manassas has no excuse.

Washington D.C. is also pretty terrible. What kind of person puts two different Second Streets within three blocks of each other? (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&q=Washington+DC+second+street&rlz=1B3MOZA_enUS344US345&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=2nd+St,+Washington,+DC+20002&gl=us&ei=uvIbTO7nEo3MNb-v1LgM&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA)

[Deth Muncher]

As a native Virginian, I can safely say that yes, these road planners are made of retarded. Richmond is nowhere near as bad as Mananas or DC, but the sheer number of one way streets and roundabout fails are staggering.

[Scorpina]

Compared to an average car journey in Britain, that sounds rather tame, to be honest.

I concour.

[AstralFire]

Perhaps Britain for a honeymoon is not such a good idea then. :smalleek:

[Joran]

True, but Boston's roads were laid out by cows fleeing their pastures during riots. Manassas has no excuse.

Washington D.C. is also pretty terrible. What kind of person puts two different Second Streets within three blocks of each other? (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&q=Washington+DC+second+street&rlz=1B3MOZA_enUS344US345&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=2nd+St,+Washington,+DC+20002&gl=us&ei=uvIbTO7nEo3MNb-v1LgM&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA)

Well, the grid is pretty easy to navigate once you understand it. Many a time, I've managed to figure my way from one number street to another number street or one letter street to another letter street easily.

But as a person who went to the wrong New Jersey Ave (NE not SE), making me an hour and a half late to my first day on the job, I feel your pain.

[Keld Denar]

Seattles pretty decent, but it does have some interesting places...

Such as the intersection of:

NE 124th St
and
124th St NE

Yea...thats right. Just throw the NE at the end and all of a sudden, its runs north/south instead of east/west.

There are a couple other places where this happens. Genious of planning right there. Couldn't do something simple like...evens go east/west and odds go north/south to match our beloved interstate highway system?

[Trog]

I take it you've never driven in Boston?
Indeed. Navigation of Boston is a nightmare.

[The Rose Dragon]

Look, you should be happy your streets actually have names written in plain view. The only way I can learn a street's name is by asking someone who lives there.

[lesser_minion]

Perhaps Britain for a honeymoon is not such a good idea then. :smalleek:

In essence, the UK is just not a nice place to drive. Navigation does get tricky in some places, you'll occasionally run into the congestion charge, and most cities were built before cars became widespread so there are a lot of shortcuts you can take if you're willing to walk.

The flip side is that driving is rarely necessary -- in most cities, there is little of interest that's more than an hours' walk from the city centre.

As a rule of thumb for a lot of the UK, cycling is the best way to get around (outside London), usually followed by walking.

The only time vehicles are really useful is in rural areas or when the weather is exceptionally hideous.

[Cheesegear]

The only time vehicles are really useful is in rural areas or when the weather is exceptionally hideous.

...So, always, then? :smallamused:

[lesser_minion]

...So, always, then? :smallamused:

Contrary to popular belief, we actually have fairly nice weather. IME, rain tends to be pretty wimpy, with occasional exceptions.

Things do get a little wet during heavy rain, but it's still not the end of the world.

[Dogmantra]

Contrary to popular belief, we actually have fairly nice weather.

Hahahaha, good one there.

[lesser_minion]

Hahahaha, good one there.

IME, "complaining about the weather" means "complaining that the rain is too wimpy".

[Dogmantra]

IME, "complaining about the weather" means "complaining that the rain is too wimpy".

Well obviously. The rain's never wet enough. It's always the dry sort of rain that doesn't give you the satisfaction of coming home thoroughly soaked and then changing into dry clothes. And when it is properly wet rain, it's too wet and horrible.

[lesser_minion]

Well obviously. The rain's never wet enough. It's always the dry sort of rain that doesn't give you the satisfaction of coming home thoroughly soaked and then changing into dry clothes. And when it is properly wet rain, it's too wet and horrible.

Note that I do live in a less rainy part of the country.

However, light rain is nothing. Moderate rain is a little annoying but nothing to write home about, and heavy rain is a bit wet, but still not the end of the world.

Puddles are a far more annoying aspect of rain than the rain itself, especially when your converses are wearing a little thin.

Anyway, back on topic, I have seen at least one light that basically leads you straight through another lane of traffic. It doesn't cause any issues, but I'm sure it's less than ideal.

Putting a no entry at the bottom of a 12% hill is not a particularly amazing move, however.

[KuReshtin]

I don't think driving in the UK is that bad. yes, there are a lot of streets that are too narrow for their own good, and it doesn't help that a lot of people don't know where their cars end, so they have this feeling that the cars are about a yard wider than they really are.

On the subject of stupid roads:
The road to nowhere (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=55.86074,-4.270003&num=1&t=k&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=6.881357,14.941406&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=55.860749,-4.270093&spn=0.001505,0.004823&z=18) is a walkway in Glasgow that was supposed to lead over the M8 motorway, but apparently they ran out of money. So they just left it.

[UndeadCleric]

Note that I do live in a less rainy part of the country.

However, light rain is nothing. Moderate rain is a little annoying but nothing to write home about, and heavy rain is a bit wet, but still not the end of the world.

Puddles are a far more annoying aspect of rain than the rain itself, especially when your converses are wearing a little thin.

Anyway, back on topic, I have seen at least one light that basically leads you straight through another lane of traffic. It doesn't cause any issues, but I'm sure it's less than ideal.

[I]Putting a no entry at the bottom of a 12% hill is not a particularly amazing move, however.[I]

We have a lot of those.

[Xyk]

Here in Austin, Texas, our roads were designed by hippies who were presumably stoned at the time. We have three independent Spicewood Springs roads in the same neighborhood, one of which changes 3 or 4 times. That sort of thing is pretty common. Downtown, every road is one way, alternating. If you don't know it coming in, you will definitely get lost. I've pretty much got it covered, but tourists (who are fairly common due to our thriving local music) are just constantly confused.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Indeed. Navigation of Boston is a nightmare.

As a Practically Bostonian, I must challenge your statement here with a resounding :smallconfused:

And that's before I actually remember what the streets are laid out like and nod appreciatively. You win good sir, you win.

[Pheehelm]

And here I thought the Atlanta area was bad for naming half the streets after Martin Luther King, and the other half after peach products.

[Eloi]

In Indiana, there is road-construction and round-abouts everywhere. One of our highways go in a circle. And everyone sucks at driving. Needless to say, fatality ensues.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Folks, I give you this, from my home state, literally named Spaghetti Junction.


http://savvyatlanta.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/intersec.jpg




And here I thought the Atlanta area was bad for naming half the streets after Martin Luther King, and the other half after peach products.
King Peach!

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Wow, Toronto seems really tame compared to all this...

[Eloi]

Wow, Toronto seems really tame compared to all this...


Compared to an average car journey in Britain, that sounds rather tame, to be honest.


Tameness flow chart:

Canada -> USA -> U.K. -> Your Mom Australia?

[KerfuffleMach2]

Oh, and there is the little bit about how a driver with a MA drivers licsense is called a M*******. I'll give you a hint, it MIGHT have something to do with their legenary ability to cut you off in a manner of INCHES.

Come drive in Michigan sometime. Land of orange barrels, passing on either side, and of the infamous "Michigan Left".

For some reason, on pretty much any divided road in Michigan, you cannot make left turns. You always have to drive past your turn, hit the next turn-around, and go back. Every time.

Also, in the Detroit area, there are many roads that end in "Mile". They start with "5 Mile". I assume it's an actual distance from something, but who knows. Also, it's only called "5 Mile" for about a mile of it's existence. Same with "6 Mile". Seven through fourteen keep their names. Fifteen is also "Maple". Then, what would be sixteen is never called sixteen. It's either "Big Beaver" or "Metro Parkway". And it's like that up to what would be "22 Mile". Then the next one is "23 Mile", and that goes on up to "39 Mile". Then it's done.

[Zeb The Troll]

True, but Boston's roads were laid out by cows fleeing their pastures during riots. Manassas has no excuse.

Washington D.C. is also pretty terrible. What kind of person puts two different Second Streets within three blocks of each other? (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&q=Washington+DC+second+street&rlz=1B3MOZA_enUS344US345&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=2nd+St,+Washington,+DC+20002&gl=us&ei=uvIbTO7nEo3MNb-v1LgM&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA)That's not all that uncommon. Note that the markings even indicate that one of them is 2nd Street NorthEast and the other is 2nd Street NorthWest. It actually makes a lot of sense when you consider that they are being logically marked from a designated center of town. So when someone says "Go to 14th St SE" you know what part of town they mean.

Don't get me wrong, DC is a nightmare for driving, but it's not because of this fairly pedestrian naming convention. (Seriously, if you put me on a sidewalk in DC on the corner of 7th St NW and M St, then tell me I need to get to 4th St NE and H St, I've got a pretty good shot at figuring it out. :smalltongue:)

@Vorpal Tribble - I see your Spaghetti Junction and offer you The Mixing Bowl (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=capital+beltway+exit+169A,+Washington,+DC&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.019527,55.458984&ie=UTF8&hq=capital+beltway+exit+169A,&hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbia&ll=38.785535,-77.177753&spn=0.023249,0.02708&t=h&z=15).

Note that if you look closely enough on Northbound I95 at the upper knot, you'll see that if you want to go East on the beltway, you must exit left. Likewise, to get onto the Westbound inner loop, you must exit to the right.

@Kerfuffle - New Jersey has the "you can't actually turn left, ever" phenomenon too. There, if you feel you must turn left, there are signs indicating that to do so you must first turn right and loop back around to go across. This isn't just on divided roadways either. At least in NJ, they have the loopbacks built in for you. :smallcool:

[Temotei]

I've heard Ireland is a nightmare compared to the U.S. from one of my Irish go-karting buds. McMahon is his last name--pronounced mick-man. :smallbiggrin:

[Gorgondantess]

Huh. Makes me appreciate the city planning in Southern California. We don't have to deal with any of that.:smallbiggrin:

[Pyrian]

SoCal - I never realized how sane our roads were until I went other places. :smallconfused: Boston is bad, and the road signs there are difficult to spot even if you know where they're supposed to be (and if you don't, it takes some time to figure out what the convention is). But the worst paved roads I've ever been in (I don't count unpaved backcountry roads in this) was Tewksbury, Massachussetts, a bit north of Boston. In that area (and much of the surroundings) they have three-way intersections with virtually no road signs whatsoever (locals tell me that stealing them is a regional sport). You can't even reliably stay on the same road through an intersection! Nevermind have any idea where you're going, where you're at, and before long, even where you've been.

[Moonshadow]

Tameness flow chart:

Canada -> USA -> U.K. -> Your Mom Australia?

The roads here are fine... if you don't go to Sydney :P

[Dogmantra]

I have a tangentally related question: do you have those silly painted-on-the-road mini-roundabouts in other countries? You know, the little white mounds that everyone drives over anyway?

These things:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Mini-roundabout.jpg

[Quincunx]

I've heard Ireland is a nightmare compared to the U.S. from one of my Irish go-karting buds. McMahon is his last name--pronounced mick-man. :smallbiggrin:

Do you know how you can tell the difference between Northern Ireland and the Republic? Northern Ireland has street signs of the "erected for the purpose and not just whacked onto the nearest wall, and if none was available, well who needs street signs?" variety. We have major beltways where the straight lane from one side points at the right-turn lane from the other. We have traffic circles in sizes from drive-over-the-nubbin to seven-branched-candleabra (although as far I know we top out at only two feeder roundabouts, nowhere near as bad as the UK's Magic Roundabout). We have intersections where one-way roads feed temporary two-way roads feed full-time two-way roads feed roads-with-a-turn-lane. And, to top it all, it is illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalks so as to avoid the crazy.

[Timberwolf]

Perhaps Britain for a honeymoon is not such a good idea then. :smalleek:

I'll just put a few things in perspective here.

Generally speaking, Britain is ok to drive in. There are, however, some notable exceptions.

Roundabouts - ok as long as you remember that traffic that is already on them (and is therefore coming at you from the right) has priority. This can lead to queues.

Mini roundabouts - as above but pointless.

Speed humps - depending on how vicious they are, 20 mph is a good speed to take them at. Some may be able to be safely ignored others are just plain nasty.

Speed Cameras - irritating beyond all measure. if you see one (they're painted bright yellow and lines will be painted on the road for callibration) then make sure you're being a good boy.

London - just remember that when it comes to driving, God had nothing to do with this place. You think Boston's bad ? A true Londoner would eat them alive. You have to be utterly ruthless and more willing than the other fellow to have a smash. Also they charge you £5 to actually take your car in. If you do decide to come here, you're not staying in London and want to visit, park your car in one of the outlying commuter towns (I park in Sunbury but others work just as well) and get the train in. This is for your own good.

The West Country - Home of splendid cider, decent cricket teams and Stonehenge. Also, the worst roads in the country. I should know. Not only do I live here, I recently wrecked my car on one of them by running in a Chrysler PT cruiser on a single track road's blind corner. For a visitor, stay on the main road. Do not get creative with the map. Wiltshire and Cornwall are especially bad for this. Single lane roads that are still 2 way and haven't been surfaced in years. Pot holes that look like moon craters and ruts where tractor tyres have churned up the tarmac.

Also, we suffer from our fair share of idiot town planning. My favourite at the moment is South Gloucestershire Council's decision to put street names on only 1 side of the road. As I need to drive a lot for work, this can get interesting as I try to see exactly what road it was that I drove by just now.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

I have a tangentally related question: do you have those silly painted-on-the-road mini-roundabouts in other countries? You know, the little white mounds that everyone drives over anyway?

These things:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Mini-roundabout.jpg

The point of mini-roundabouts is more to do with traffic flow than with trying to make traffic circumnavigate the road, since they are all afterthoughts - the junctions with them were not built with them in mind.

From the perspective of rural England, it is a perfectly normal occurrence for me to drive along narrow lanes that have been here since the medieval era. Simply put, drivers from the UK have to be better than drivers from the new world, because these roads weren't built for cars. Obviously urban Britain is equipped to handle such things, and the point of the motorways was to stop people having to make extremely long and difficult journeys through older roads, but my area stands as one in need of road modernisation.

[Jimp]

Do you know how you can tell the difference between Northern Ireland and the Republic? Northern Ireland has street signs of the "erected for the purpose and not just whacked onto the nearest wall, and if none was available, well who needs street signs?" variety. We have major beltways where the straight lane from one side points at the right-turn lane from the other. We have traffic circles in sizes from drive-over-the-nubbin to seven-branched-candleabra (although as far I know we top out at only two feeder roundabouts, nowhere near as bad as the UK's Magic Roundabout). We have intersections where one-way roads feed temporary two-way roads feed full-time two-way roads feed roads-with-a-turn-lane. And, to top it all, it is illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalks so as to avoid the crazy.Having driven in countries outside Ireland, Irish motoring is heavenly compared to a lot of places. The UK is generally about the same. Germany is better. France and basically everywhere with a Mediterranean coastline is hellish. North America is, by all accounts, apparently terrifying :smalleek:

[Brother Oni]

Roundabouts - ok as long as you remember that traffic that is already on them (and is therefore coming at you from the right) has priority. This can lead to queues.


So what do you do when you see the Magic Roundabout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29)? :smallbiggrin:

When I lived in Swindon, I didn't find it that bad as if one lane was queueing as there was about half a dozen other routes to get across it. I had friends who hated it though.

[Scorpina]

I have to agree about France. The roads there are just scary.

I agree about Germany too. German roads are efficient! I was genuinely more comfortable on a German autobahn than I have been on most British motorways.

[lesser_minion]

Tunisia is utterly terrifying.

It's the place where zebra crossings... aren't.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Being required to stop at zebra crossings when a pedestrian wants to use it is probably one of the best things about being a British pedestrian. Apparently not many countries have that enshrined in law.

[Blayze]

Ah, terrible roads and equally terrible drivers. This thread brings back bad memories of trying to pass my driving test -- elsewhere in the world, it either wouldn't be as much of a problem or the examiner wouldn't have expected as much from me.

But I live in Doncaster -- a town in South Yorkshire, in England. We have a special relationship with our roads -- namely that they all have at least two names (Neither name will actually be right).

The first is the official name. Depending on the road, this may or may not actually exist. If it doesn't, rest assured there's at least two of the *other* type of name.

The second is the local name. This name is so *local*, in fact, that only a select few locals -- usually those who live on that street -- know what it is. Nobody else will know that the road has an official name.

Given that I work in the department that deals with phone calls from people who trip over or damage their vehicles on potholes and all sorts of other delightful pavement/road-related problems, you can imagine my frustration when they ring up to report the problem--

--and then insist on giving me the most pointlessly-complicated, overly-long, hopelessly-useless description of where the road in question lies in relation to other roads that they also don't know the name of.

As for driving here, I'm glad I don't. I passed my test and was glad to see the back of it -- I only took it so people could shut up about it.

Most drivers here shouldn't be on the road. Even if they can actually drive, they're doing so without insurance and/or having passed their test. Some are drunk and/or drugged up, and almost all seem to take pleasure in making a learner's time on the road an absolute nightmare.

[Trog]

So what do you do when you see the Magic Roundabout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29)? :smallbiggrin:
:eek:
Holy crap!
That...

that's just...

...

that ain't right.

[Dogmantra]

:eek:
Holy crap!
That...

that's just...

...

that ain't right.

It's like the hydra. You remove one of the mini roundabouts? It just grows two more.

[Scorpina]

So what do you do when you see the Magic Roundabout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29)? :smallbiggrin:

When I lived in Swindon, I didn't find it that bad as if one lane was queueing as there was about half a dozen other routes to get across it. I had friends who hated it though.

I've driven throguh Skelmersdale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skem). You don't scare me.

[Teddy]

Wow, when I read all this, I realize that Sweden must be some sort of driver's heaven. Almost every road sign is logically placed, the naming conventions aren't confusing, the road layouts usually works and the drivers generally aren't frenzied morons. At least, that's how I percieve it.


Being required to stop at zebra crossings when a pedestrian wants to use it is probably one of the best things about being a British pedestrian. Apparently not many countries have that enshrined in law.

We have it. It's called "the Zebra Law". Sadly, far from all drivers stop to let pedestrians over, and there have been accidents where pedestrians have walked out in the street directly in front of moving cars without showing their intent to do so, just because the law says that the cars should stop. There are even those who says that the law should be abolished just because of the safety aspect.

[Miklus]

In Denmark, cars are required to have thier headlights on all the time, even during the day.

Then there are speed bumps, slaloms, narrows and other inventive obstacles. The speed bumps range from "don't care" to "bottom out your car". It's really tricky to see what kind of bump it is. I have scraped the bottom of my car once, that can't be good for the rust proofing. Some of the slaloms are very low and can not be seen when there is snow...

The most annoying and dumbest part is the "narrows" where they put obstacles on both sides of the road so only one car can pass at a time. This means that traffic coming from both sides are lead headlong towards each other. It's like a game of "chicken".

You see, because of the mortal danger cars have to slow down and slow speeds a safer! Right...? So you improve traffic safety by putting people in danger. Logic for traffic planners.

[Teddy]

In Denmark, cars are required to have thier headlights on all the time, even during the day.

Here too. That's actually a pretty good idea. It's much easier to determine if a car is moving towards you or just parked at the side of the road by looking at their headlights. And there won't be any confusions on when the lights should be on or not, nor anyone forgetting to turn them on either.


Then there are speed bumps, slaloms, narrows and other inventive obstacles. The speed bumps range from "don't care" to "bottom out your car". It's really tricky to see what kind of bump it is. I have scraped the bottom of my car once, that can't be good for the rust proofing. Some of the slaloms are very low and can not be seen when there is snow...

The most annoying and dumbest part is the "narrows" where they put obstacles on both sides of the road so only one car can pass at a time. This means that traffic coming from both sides are lead headlong towards each other. It's like a game of "chicken".

You see, because of the mortal danger cars have to slow down and slow speeds a safer! Right...? So you improve traffic safety by putting people in danger. Logic for traffic planners.

They've pretty recently remodelled some slaloms in my area. They used to be semi-permanent concrete flowerpots standing together three and three, so that one lane entered and exited the slalom normally, while the other lane entered and exited it by driving over to the other lane first. This was good, because there were no questions regarding who had the right to go first.

Now they're made out of two permanent low narrowings of the road, that forces both lanes to enter the slalom through the opposite lane, and thus eliminates all aid on who goes first. :smallsigh:

They've also very recently put up a lot of speed bumps in my neighbourhood, more or less over a night. I went out a day to stroll around a bit, just to notice them all. When I and my dad were out driving half a year ago, we were suprised by such a speedbump they'd set up on the same road as the aforementioned slaloms. This was only 2-3 hours after I biked past this spot on the way home from school, and there were no speed bump in the road then.

[The Extinguisher]

I thought Edmonton was poorly planned out.

The only problems we have are 5-way intersections and apparently when first assigning street names, instead of starting the middle of the city at 1 and 1 and working from there, they started it at 100 and 100. So now we have what are pretty much negative streets and avenues.

[arguskos]

My friend lives in Missouri (St. Louis) and when we visited his folks, I was STUNNED. They name state roads by letter, and each COUNTY names all their roads by letter starting from A. There are something like 70+ State Road A's in Missouri. :smalleek: Best part? Many cross county lines (poorly marked, if ever) and thus CHANGE NAMES without warning. :eek:

Needless to say, getting around in Missouri can be tricky at times.

[Force]

Here too. That's actually a pretty good idea. It's much easier to determine if a car is moving towards you or just parked at the side of the road by looking at their headlights. And there won't be any confusions on when the lights should be on or not, nor anyone forgetting to turn them on either.



*shrugs* Here in the US, it's that way for motorcycles. Not for cars, but hey, that's the cagers' problem ;)

[KuReshtin]

The headlights on at all times law is very good.
One thing that grates on me to no end here in the UK are people who figure that driving in the dark with only position lights is a good thing. The position lights are too weak a lot of the times to be of any use whatsoever.

Luckily, the laws are being changed in the UK to include the daylight running lights that mean that you have to have the low beams on even during the day.

Like Teddy said, it's not for the use of the driver of the car itself, but rather an indicator to other drivers that the car is actually coming towards them.

[Jimp]

Not sure about the lights-on law in the UK but EU law now states that all new cars must have daytime running lights of some kind. On most cars it's just the sidelights on all the time but some companies have gotten inventive, like Audi having different shaped DRLs on all of their cars.

[Brewdude]

If it doesn't make sense, politics was involved in it's creation.

[Timberwolf]

So what do you do when you see the Magic Roundabout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29)? :smallbiggrin:

When I lived in Swindon, I didn't find it that bad as if one lane was queueing as there was about half a dozen other routes to get across it. I had friends who hated it though.

The Magic Roundabout and I are not friends. However, these are thankfully vanishingly rare. I have only ever encountered another one in Colchester. I hear there's more around the country though.

As a rule, aside from these rare and unpleasant examples, traffic from the right has priority on roundabouts.

Anyone ever driven in Warwick ? That one's pretty unpleasant.

[KerfuffleMach2]

There are plenty of multiple street intersections around here, where streets jump out at odd angles. Like a five-way intersection.

People that have been in DC are probably familiar with the hub-and-spokes road design.

I found out that was actually first put in place here in Detroit. Invented by a guy named Woodward.

So, one of the major roads here is named after him, of course. It's about 23 miles in length, it's an avenue most of the time, and the northern end is a loop.

As in, you keep going north on it, you eventually get turned back around and be heading south.

Also, it doesn't run directly north-south. Actually, it starts out going east-west, then angles, going northwest-southeast.

Also, Ann Arbor and Downtown Detroit are notorious for making the casual driver get lost and want to throw many things. I don't go to either place without a map and a navigator.

[Blayze]

I remember once seeing a super-roundabout that had other, lesser -- yet still *full-size* -- roundabouts surrounding it like planets orbiting a sun made of traffic accidents. It might have been the Magic Roundabout, I don't know.

[RandomNPC]

Here, an hour drive from a "Major" city, we don't have roads that bad, just drivers.

Apparently, on state routes red lights are optional, giving a bike rider some extra room or slowing down a bit is unheard of, and the speed limits disapear when it's near shift change for the police, because people think they don't want to go through the hassle of writing a ticket right before shift change.

I've seen people with a three inch space of snow scooped off their windshield, the rest of the car covered, cut me off and get t-boned blowing through a red light.

You can turn into the nearest lane at a red light if traffic allows, and people tend to beleive that means you can do it anytime there's more than half a car length between incoming cars.

[Eddums]

Folks, I give you this, from my home state, literally named Spaghetti Junction.


http://savvyatlanta.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/intersec.jpg




We have one of those here in Birmingham. UK, by the way. You know. The proper one. I jest, I jest.

Ours is better. Or more spaghetti-like, at any rate. :smalltongue:

Although upon consideration, that might make it worse.

[CurlyKitGirl]

The West Country - Home of splendid cider, decent cricket teams and Stonehenge. Also, the worst roads in the country. I should know. Not only do I live here, I recently wrecked my car on one of them by running in a Chrysler PT cruiser on a single track road's blind corner. For a visitor, stay on the main road. Do not get creative with the map. Wiltshire and Cornwall are especially bad for this. Single lane roads that are still 2 way and haven't been surfaced in years. Pot holes that look like moon craters and ruts where tractor tyres have churned up the tarmac.

As someone who lives in the West Country I agree about the area having the 'worst roads in the country'; they are awful.
Especially in Cornwall.
As being a very rural part of the country, the county took a long time to get tarmacked roads. My parents can remember a time when there were still dirt roads in common use, and even now there are roads of smaller roads, especially getting to farming areas which aren't paved at all.
Furthermore, we have a lot of single lane roads acting as two-way roads. And tourists never back up. EVER. It drives us locals proper mad and we end up backing into hedges. WHY DON'T THEY LEARN ETTIQUETTE AND HOW TO DRIVE RIGHT?!
Plus we have the local name/actual name/no name problem.
There's a road near me which goes up a hill. It's called Paul Hill (the local name for those under thirty and those over thirty), it's actual name is Chywoone Hill, but everyone over thirty (and some under thirty) do call it Choone.
Paul Hill is actually one of the roads off Choone.
And really, as the hill the road is on is so obvious everyone just says they're going up hill.

Sometimes down here, especially the further west you go, even the villages, farms and hamlets themselves'll have an official name, a local name and the name of the not-a-name variety.

Driving down here is an art, especially as we tend not to follow most of the highway code and general rules.
Also, would it kill other pedestrians to wave a thanks after a car slows down anywhere other than a traffic light to let you stop? It's just manners.
Yep, Cornwall drivers operate on manners and rules. That combined with our medieval roads - most towns and settlements are at least three hundred years old - and the atrocious state of the roads.
The councils don't fix the roads often enough. Therefore a million potholes. You can practically go swimming in them after it's rained.

[Brother Oni]

As someone who lives in the West Country I agree about the area having the 'worst roads in the country'; they are awful.
Especially in Cornwall.

I'm always polite when I'm driving down in Cornwall. I believe there used to be a local private owner of a de-commissioned tank, who occasionally takes it for a spin on the roads down there.

As it's an ex-MOD vehicle, I understand it's also exempt from road tax. :smallbiggrin:

[CWater]

Wow, when I read all this, I realize that Sweden must be some sort of driver's heaven. Almost every road sign is logically placed, the naming conventions aren't confusing, the road layouts usually works and the drivers generally aren't frenzied morons. At least, that's how I percieve it.



We have it. It's called "the Zebra Law". Sadly, far from all drivers stop to let pedestrians over, and there have been accidents where pedestrians have walked out in the street directly in front of moving cars without showing their intent to do so, just because the law says that the cars should stop. There are even those who says that the law should be abolished just because of the safety aspect.

My thoughts exactly, except that I'm from Finland. The roads here are mostly decent, and most of the rules make sense, even if they'd be irritating. But, who am I to speak, since I've never driven a car yet; my first driving lesson is tomorrow.:smallamused:

I've heard that some people here claim that driving in Helsinki is dreadful, but I'm sure that compared to any real big city it would be a piece of cake.


Folks, I give you this, from my home state, literally named Spaghetti Junction.


http://savvyatlanta.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/intersec.jpg



...:eek:...oh my...that's all I have to say. Yeesh, I'm starting to be reeeally happy that this is a lowly populated country...

[lesser_minion]

I'm always polite when I'm driving down in Cornwall. I believe there used to be a local private owner of a de-commissioned tank, who occasionally takes it for a spin on the roads down there.

As it's an ex-MOD vehicle, I understand it's also exempt from road tax. :smallbiggrin:

Hope that's a scorpion and not anything heavier -- any large tank would basically shred a lot of roads.

Most of Somerset has similarly narrow roads, and the 'A-road' connecting Swindon and Oxford is absolutely tiny.

[Brother Oni]

Hope that's a scorpion and not anything heavier -- any large tank would basically shred a lot of roads.

I heard it was either a chieftain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chieftain_tank) or a centurion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_tank), but given their weight, I'm doubting it's either.

[rakkoon]

Okay, I live in the most densely build region in Europe and we have absolutely nothing as bad as the one from Vorpal Tribble.
The condition of our roads is terrible but when I read all your stuff in this thread, we got it easy!

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Okay, I live in the most densely build region in Europe and we have absolutely nothing as bad as the one from Vorpal Tribble.
The condition of our roads is terrible but when I read all your stuff in this thread, we got it easy!
Well, that's the funny thing. The state of Georgia has the best roads, condition wise, in the U.S. which also in general has the best condition of roads in the world.

We upkeep the roads, its just the design!

Edit: What's funny is Atlanta is still wild. They have to chop or mow the kudzu and ivy off the highways practically daily. Had a guy from New York come down to work at my last place and he's like, 'I thought I was moving from the city into the city, not the effing boondocks!'

Yes, if it isn't planted or have a little iron fence around it, it's the wilderness.

[KuReshtin]

We have one of those here in Birmingham. UK, by the way. You know. The proper one. I jest, I jest.

Ours is better. Or more spaghetti-like, at any rate. :smalltongue:

Although upon consideration, that might make it worse.

Ah, junction 6 of the M6.

Here's the Google view of it. (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=birmingham&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.171015,46.362305&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Birmingham,+West+Midlands,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.510788,-1.864994&spn=0.007117,0.022638&t=k&z=16)

[Killer Angel]

I remember once seeing a super-roundabout that had other, lesser -- yet still *full-size* -- roundabouts surrounding it like planets orbiting a sun made of traffic accidents. It might have been the Magic Roundabout, I don't know.

Are you talking 'bout this (http://www.attivissimo.net/antibufala/rotonda_magica/rotonda_magica.htm)? :smalltongue:

[Blayze]

I don't think so. I think these orbiting roundabouts were full-sized ones in their own right -- as in, you couldn't drive over them unless you wanted to park your car in one of those hedges that seem to get plonked on them all the time.

And yet, they were but minor features of the super-roundabout.

[Pheehelm]

Well, that's the funny thing. The state of Georgia has the best roads, condition wise, in the U.S. which also in general has the best condition of roads in the world.

We upkeep the roads, its just the design!Hmm. Wonder if that's why I'm always a tad lost when people complain about potholes and such. Got a source on this one?

And I don't know why y'all are hatin' on Spaghetti Junction. That place is fun.

[Catch]

This thread has made me so much more satisfied with living in a planned city.

Look at those clean lines.

http://heckeranddecker.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/chicago-plan-of-the-city.jpg

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

This thread has made me so much more satisfied with living in a planned city.

Look at those clean lines.

http://heckeranddecker.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/chicago-plan-of-the-city.jpg

Yet at the same time, to live in a more organic urban sprawl or countryside is more exciting, and more special. It's almost paradoxical, but convenience seems to kill a place's soul.

[Squark]

The main issue in my hometown is navigation- Visitors get lost easily. THere are a few exceptions- The intersection by one of the driving schools, ironically, needs a few more signs, because people take turns, and then see a red light, and stop. In the middle of the intersection. We also need to add a few more 4-way stops, like at the bottom of the hill I live on. Do we need a fatality for city planning to add it? Or a roundabout. But that intersection is a death trap for a simple 2-way intersection with a stop sign on one of the roads.

[Supagoof]

I've seen people with a three inch space of snow scooped off their windshield, the rest of the car covered, cut me off and get t-boned blowing through a red light.
Yay Darwinism!


Hmm. Wonder if that's why I'm always a tad lost when people complain about potholes and such. Got a source on this one?Potholes are when patchees of pavement are obliterated by weather condition/traffic. They are basically holes made in an otherwise smooth section of street. When your car hits them, it wreaks havoc on your suspension system. Often at higher speeds, the holes will cause flat tires.

They are very common in MN, because the rain comes and seeps into pockets under the pavement, then the cold comes and expands the water into ice. Plows come and clean off the streets from snow, and will often take the now hicher then normal pavement with them as they pass. Spring comes, and lot's of holes that need patches are left.

[Murska]

Yeah, Finnish roads are pretty good.

I've been to Germany, where the roads are simply awesome. I've also been to Tokyo, where navigating is a pain. IF the smaller roads have any names at all, which I don't know, they're marked only with kanji and I can't possibly remember those so I have to actually draw them onto a piece of paper or something.

Oh, and when you're used to the simple and efficient system of the Tube in London, you're in for a bit of a shocker to see the complex, yet efficient, system of Tokyo metro.

[Pheehelm]

Potholes are when patchees of pavement are obliterated by weather condition/traffic. They are basically holes made in an otherwise smooth section of street. When your car hits them, it wreaks havoc on your suspension system. Often at higher speeds, the holes will cause flat tires.Oh I know what they are, I've just almost never encountered them. Actually the only ones I personally remember are a few way out in the boondocks anyways. How common are they in most places?

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Oh I know what they are, I've just almost never encountered them. Actually the only ones I personally remember are a few way out in the boondocks anyways. How common are they in most places?

The moment you stray away from the main roads and town and head down lanes and country roads here, you are guaranteed to encounter them. There are always repairs going on, but while some are being repaired others are being created, so there are always potholes around.

[RandomNPC]

Not so much pot holes out here, we get them, they're just expected. What we get here, is train tracks. There's a set of double tracks in a nearby industrial park you can either creep over at 5mph or hit at 35 and sail over both because that's the speed I found works. And the downhill slope on the other side cathces you just right so you don't scrape the cars bottom or bottom out the shocks.

Wow being a teenager was fun.

but anyway, there's one set of tracks out of dozzens in this small city that I don't fear.

[Holocron Coder]

Well, that's the funny thing. The state of Georgia has the best roads, condition wise, in the U.S. which also in general has the best condition of roads in the world.

That may be true for the rest of Georgia, but Atlanta's roads can be pretty bad. I've seen 10th street get repaved 3 times in the 5 years I've lived near it.



Edit: What's funny is Atlanta is still wild. They have to chop or mow the kudzu and ivy off the highways practically daily. Had a guy from New York come down to work at my last place and he's like, 'I thought I was moving from the city into the city, not the effing boondocks!'

I think we mostly got a handle on the kudzu... it still appears in some places, but we mostly got it beat :smallbiggrin:

As for Atlanta spaghetti junctions (yes, plural), I give you:

285 & 85: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=285+85+Circle,+Atlanta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,73.125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=285+85+Cir,+Atlanta,+Clayton,+Georgia+30349&ll=33.891686,-84.258463&spn=0.009886,0.017853&t=h&z=16

285 & 75: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=285+85+Circle,+Atlanta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,73.125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=285+85+Cir,+Atlanta,+Clayton,+Georgia+30349&ll=33.889619,-84.457955&spn=0.019772,0.035706&t=h&z=15

285 & 85, part 2: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=285+85+Circle,+Atlanta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,73.125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=285+85+Cir,+Atlanta,+Clayton,+Georgia+30349&ll=33.618229,-84.484005&spn=0.009917,0.017853&t=h&z=16

285 & 75, part 2: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=285+85+Circle,+Atlanta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,73.125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=285+85+Cir,+Atlanta,+Clayton,+Georgia+30349&ll=33.632987,-84.401886&spn=0.009915,0.017853&t=h&z=16

75/85 aka Downtown Connector & 20: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=285+85+Circle,+Atlanta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,73.125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=285+85+Cir,+Atlanta,+Clayton,+Georgia+30349&ll=33.7447,-84.390965&spn=0.009903,0.017853&t=h&z=16

And then, just to screw with you, the 75/85 split: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=285+85+Circle,+Atlanta,+GA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,73.125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=285+85+Cir,+Atlanta,+Clayton,+Georgia+30349&ll=33.7937,-84.390063&spn=0.019794,0.035706&t=h&z=15

Yes, 75 goes NW, but you keep to the right (East), and 85 goes NE, but you keep to the left (West) while going north.

[centuriancode]

The roads here are fine... if you don't go to Sydney :P

Clearly you have never driven in the Northern Territory or parts of South Australia. Australia presents a new challenge to the allegedly experienced driver: the invisible road.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=birmingham&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.171015,46.362305&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Birmingham,+West+Midlands,+United+Kingdom&ll=52.510788,-1.864994&spn=0.007117,0.022638&t=k&z=16

Believe it or not, there are actually roads there. They're just a little bit hard to see. Fortunately, most of the cities are more easily navigable. Canberra has some odd issues though. The streets are nice and wide, the road rules are straight forward, and the drivers are mostly competent. All the same, you are guaranteed to get lost. It's something to do with the constantly turning in circles, or so tourists say. Then Melbourne has the long right hand turns where, during a red light, you turn from the furthest left hand lane to the right, quickly dodging cars as you attempt to merge with the traffic instead of the on coming tram. It's a fun little exercise.