PDA

View Full Version : Team of Recurring Villains for my first time DMing, please help!



gallagher
2010-06-19, 12:16 AM
Hey Playground!
as many of you probably recognized (or at least read about a little) i have been starting quite a few threads concerning 3 characters. These guys will be recurring villains, whose main job is to beat the party into submission and not kill them (until the final battle) but instead bring them in for questioning/bribing of the main BBEG, who will be a fully optimized paladin build (cleric levels, high CHA, prestige paladin, all that jazz).

i am asking in this thread for some help finalizing the characters. they will level up over teh game, which will take the group from levels 4 through 20. the villains i am about to present were created with a 36 point buy, and were given 1 free LA, and are at level 8. also, please dont just link me to a handbook, as i have read them to help create the characters themselves. i am asking for more specific advice that you personally would do if you were playing this character in a game

i have little of their gear purchased (exept the first one, which you will be able to tell due to the fact that he has alot of gear) so i would like some help giving them their gear. i also need some gear for when they are level 10, level 15, and level 20. any critique i am open to. the gear they will be getting should not be too rare, as this is a low-magic campaign (the characters will be trying to free the realm so arcane casters may once again be free. the paladin they will face at the end has been supressing arcane magic as a way to further his god's goals.) the characters will, however, be getting a belt of magnificence +2 at level 10, turning it into a +4 and a +6 at the other intervals, so i dont want them having gloves of dex at the start, or something along those lines that boost their ability scores. dont worry too much about the price, but please dont make it too obscene.

This is the new Spellthief (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=217085)build, and i will reflect it in the OP. i need all his gear bought now, including what spells to choose. i also have 1 feat to choose for him (i chose master spellthief and weapon finesse) and i have to make a familiar or switch it out for an ACF. he will be stealing spells and buffs from other characters and using them to his advantage. his main purpose is to challenge the party arcanist (which i am requiring one of them to be, for obvious reasons) and cleric, as well as removing buffs. if he steals a boom spell, he will probably take the next round immediately to use it against the party (this is a tactic that i hope the party eventually plans for, and uses a strategy to help neutralize it.)

the second guy is a pounce/grapple/flurry master (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=215784). a Tashlatora monk 2/Psychic Warrior 6, his strategy is to jump on the party rogue, grapple and flurry, give flanking advantage, and use his psionic powers to great advantage (using things like inertial armor for protection and psionic lions pounce for attacking). i decided to not require monastic training for the tashlatora feat, and if the party wishes to do something similar, i wont require them to use monastic training for that same path either (hey, im a fair guy). his weapon is a set of Tiger Claws, which are just refluffed Scorpion Claws from sandstorm. they provide a +4 unnamed bonus to grappling, and i am counting them as monk weapons (and again, if the party stumbles across a set and wish to use them, i will not stop them). He will be taking the TWF tree when he can, and will be getting two weapon rend when he gets BAB +9.

Finally, the BSF of the group (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=216891). a large specimen, this Half Minotaur Water Orc also uses a fluffed weapon. he will be held back by chains (as if he were a dog, more on that later) and will be released upon the group. His weapon will actually be the chain holding him back, which will be hooked around his neck, and he will swing it around like a spiked chain, with all the same bonuses of them, but doing the damage of a heavy flail, as it will be weighted like one. i plan on using him not as a trip fiend, but a raging barbarian who just wants to hit and hit and hit. he will be fighting their party's tank. he will also be the one tracking the characters specifically, and the characters will be able to buy time by properly covering their trail. i am thinking of using the martial barbarian that they made in the homebrew section (i think Fax made it?) so i can use maneuvers with him without spending the feats. i will probably have him take that prestige class from miniatures handbook that gives +2 strength instead of +1 BAB for 4 levels so i dont lose the fourth attack, because i dont want him killing the characters until potentially the end. he will also probably take levels of frenzied berserker

like i said, these guys are "bringing them in for questioning" in front of the BBEG, so the party will know what they are up against early. it should consist of 1 arcanist, 1 divine class that will focus on healing, a BSF, a rogue, and one more character that will be among the following, but probably either an arcanist or diviner that will focus on buffing.

also, is there a weapon enhancement that allows people to do nonlethal damage without the -4 penalty? other than that, i would really appreciate any help i can get. at the moment, this group of villains will be working with 27k gp, but i can spend a little more if it is worthy. and most material will be accepted since they are being backed by the BBEG, but please keep in mind it is low magic, so it cant be a rare item.

PId6
2010-06-19, 12:27 AM
this is the first guy (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=214584), a spellthief/duskblade/unseen seer. he will be stealing spells and buffs from other characters and using them to his advantage. his main purpose is to challenge the party arcanist (which i am requiring one of them to be, for obvious reasons) and cleric, as well as removing buffs. if he steals a boom spell, he will probably take the next round immediately to use it against the party (this is a tactic that i hope the party eventually plans for, and uses a strategy to help neutralize it.) i guess for this guy right now i really need a critique and help on his strategy. i havent picked out his spells either, so i would appreciate some advice on that.
Bad, bad idea. Duskblade really doesn't work in Unseen Seer builds at all. Your spellcasting isn't anywhere near what it can be and you're not using Duskblade's best talents (full attack channeling). A Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X is far better than a Duskblade-based Unseen Seer can ever be.

gallagher
2010-06-19, 12:50 AM
Bad, bad idea. Duskblade really doesn't work in Unseen Seer builds at all. Your spellcasting isn't anywhere near what it can be and you're not using Duskblade's best talents (full attack channeling). A Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X is far better than a Duskblade-based Unseen Seer can ever be.but i will be gaining most of my sneak attacks flanking, at least i think so. what is the best route to gain sneak attacks the other means? i guess i can flank with touch spells within 30 feet

PId6
2010-06-19, 12:59 AM
but i will be gaining most of my sneak attacks flanking, at least i think so. what is the best route to gain sneak attacks the other means? i guess i can flank with touch spells within 30 feet
You can still flank with the wizard build normally. In fact, you can go into melee even better now, because you have defensive spells like Shield, Greater Mage Armor, Alter Self, etc.

You can't flank with ranged attacks (like ranged touch spells), but you can Sneak Attack enemies that lost Dex to AC somehow. This can be through Greater Invisibility, Blink, or Grease.

gallagher
2010-06-19, 01:13 AM
You can still flank with the wizard build normally. In fact, you can go into melee even better now, because you have defensive spells like Shield, Greater Mage Armor, Alter Self, etc.

You can't flank with ranged attacks (like ranged touch spells), but you can Sneak Attack enemies that lost Dex to AC somehow. This can be through Greater Invisibility, Blink, or Grease.

so then i can just change my ability scores and switch out my levels of duskblade for wizard, because i still want to be able to steal other buffs, and keep my wand selection and prepare buff spells.

so the spellthief build is now officially back at the drawing board. i am reflecting it in the OP, and am now working with a Spellthief 2/Wizard 3/ Unseen Seer 3

PId6
2010-06-19, 01:17 AM
so then i can just change my ability scores and switch out my levels of duskblade for wizard, because i still want to be able to steal other buffs, and keep my wand selection and prepare buff spells.
Max out Int, get a decent Dex/Con, and dump the rest. Switching race to something else might be a good idea also (Tiefling is good).

Why is Cha maxed anyway? Duskblade is Int-based and has Cha as a dump stat.

gallagher
2010-06-19, 01:24 AM
Max out Int, get a decent Dex/Con, and dump the rest. Switching race to something else might be a good idea also (Tiefling is good).

Why is Cha maxed anyway? Duskblade is Int-based and has Cha as a dump stat.

1, he is the party face, and i dont have the skill points early on to put alot into bluff. 2, i love chaos gnomes, and always wanted to play one

PId6
2010-06-19, 01:26 AM
1, he is the party face, and i dont have the skill points early on to put alot into bluff. 2, i love chaos gnomes, and always wanted to play one
You can do Unseen Seer with a Sorcerer or Beguiler in that case. They tend to be worse at it than Wizards, but it's doable. Sorcerers will probably be better, but Beguilers fit the theme a lot more. Both will be much better than Duskblade.

gallagher
2010-06-19, 12:22 PM
You can do Unseen Seer with a Sorcerer or Beguiler in that case. They tend to be worse at it than Wizards, but it's doable. Sorcerers will probably be better, but Beguilers fit the theme a lot more. Both will be much better than Duskblade.well i will go with sorceror, mainly because i prefer that spell list, and then i dont have to have UMD (they wont be healing, and maybe once they will have one of their pally buddies) and can instead invest in other important skills, like escape artist, concentrate, and the suchlike

anyway, what about the other characters? they arent nearly as well formed as the spellthief

Forever Curious
2010-06-19, 12:24 PM
Mineral Warrior (Races of Stone?) template for the Half Minotaur.

playswithfire
2010-06-19, 01:33 PM
also, is there a weapon enhancement that allows people to do nonlethal damage without the -4 penalty? other than that, i would really appreciate any help i can get. at the moment, this group of villains will be working with 27k gp, but i can spend a little more if it is worthy. and most material will be accepted since they are being backed by the BBEG, but please keep in mind it is low magic, so it cant be a rare item.

Merciful (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#merciful), a +1 enhancement; makes all damage nonlethal and adds an extra d6

gallagher
2010-06-19, 01:53 PM
This is the new Spellthief (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=217085)build, and i will reflect it in the OP. i need all his gear bought now, including what spells to choose. i also have 1 feat to choose for him (i chose master spellthief and weapon finesse) and i have to make a familiar

gallagher
2010-06-19, 06:27 PM
This is the new Spellthief (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=217085)build, and i will reflect it in the OP. i need all his gear bought now, including what spells to choose. i also have 1 feat to choose for him (i chose master spellthief and weapon finesse) and i have to make a familiar

i updated what i believe should be good for the Spellthief build. I saw in the Spell Compendium the spell Rainbow Blast, which i just dont think i can possibly resist (ba-dum psh). with one of the players being a buff-captain, and the players going all around different terrains, it will be a good idea to have alot of different kinds of energy damage, which makes this spell shoot to the top of my priority, allowing me to have other more utility spells throughout my known spells, and specific wands for special occasions.

BTW: instead of a weapon for the "in case" occasion, i am getting a wand of shadow weapon. with my poor BAB, having a longspear that hits on touch will be phenomenal. the rest of my wands are for specific occasions (i have plans for misers greed to make a smeagol turn into a gollem, and the Dark Way will be a trap for players)

Hague
2010-06-19, 09:09 PM
I mean, it's nice and all, tailoring enemies to your players, but I'm hoping you have some reason for the enemies knowing all about your PCs' abilities. If the PCs for instance, fail to stop a spy or scrying sensor from inspecting them then maybe have their abilities focused on your PCs. But simply having the bad guys know all about your PCs flaws makes me uneasy. But hey, it's your game.

I find the recurring villains work great with the retraining rules. Players defeat them and the villains retrain themselves to get payback and they fight with an escalation of optimization against the PCs unless the PCs change their tactics too.

I always thought the whole Spellthief thing was funny. I can just imagine some spellthief having a buncha Sorcerers trapped in permanent slumber spells, bound and gagged and using them as a source of raw power.