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Chambers
2010-06-19, 01:40 AM
What are your favorite game rules variants that you use in games or would like to be used in a game? For myself I'd like to see what effect using Recharge Magic and Injury rules (both from the SRD) would have on a game.

By variants I mean ones published by wotc, homebrew here on the forum, and houserules your group uses.

drengnikrafe
2010-06-19, 01:45 AM
Feat trees, which confuses normal people until they understand it, at which point they scowl and call it unnecessary. I still like them. (Houserule)

Chambers
2010-06-19, 02:03 AM
Can you elaborate on your feat tree system?

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I think Recharge Magic + Injury would change some core dynamics of how the game is played. With Recharge you can cast spells all day long, which means you never run out of healing as long as the healer is alive.

Instead of going through a few encounters and then having to stop because the casters are out of spells, everyone keeps going.

The Injury variant seems like it makes the game less lethal. Hits only apply a -1 penalty to your subsequent Fort saves. Take enough and eventually you'll be Disabled, but with Recharge Magic the healer will always have some heal spell ready to go.

Together it seems like it would drastically change the feel of the game. No longer constrained by spell/healing management, the players can focus on playing their characters instead of playing the meta game. (i.e. Do we press on or rest the night in this dungeon?)

Does anyone have experience with either variants, or both at the same time?

PId6
2010-06-19, 02:15 AM
Gestalt - oh so much fun when you optimize. :smallamused:

HunterOfJello
2010-06-19, 02:35 AM
Gestalt Variant
Paladin of Freedom Variant
Tons of Wizard Variants (Focused, Focused Specialist, familiar replacements)
Tons of Barbarian Variants
Penetrating Strike
Changeling Rogue Substitution Levels

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-19, 02:40 AM
Abrupt Jaunt is pretty awesome, as are the standard action conjuration stuffs from UA. Dungeoncrasher also makes me want to take levels in fighter. I'm also a big fan of rage variants. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3237.0)

Mystic Muse
2010-06-19, 02:43 AM
homebrew here on the forum

These (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724) Monsters

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133737) Paladin

Leon
2010-06-19, 03:20 AM
Druidic Avenger and the Hunter Variant for Druid

Battle Sorcerer for Sorcerer

Non spellcasting Ranger

Coidzor
2010-06-19, 04:06 AM
I've yet to play as one, but I loves me some Mystic Ranger action. Next time I play 3.5 that's one of my top picks.

Morph Bark
2010-06-19, 04:17 AM
Gestalt - oh so much fun when you optimize. :smallamused:

Ditto. My group has done this and even without optimization it's really fun to play, especially if you include that you can have LA+3 on both sides for free since up to LA+3 can be bought off before level 20.

Wizard variants seem fun too, but I haven't tried it. I would like to combine Focused Specialist with a Changeling Wizard that has taken the first racial substitution level and then go into Master Specialist.

Set
2010-06-19, 04:30 AM
Cloistered Cleric, and hey, who wouldn't want the free stuff of the Domain Wizard!

Also from UA, the Fractional BAB, Fractional Saves and Magic Rating ideas are golden for multiclassing.

Lycar
2010-06-19, 04:43 AM
The fractional BAB/saves should be core rules for all multiclassing anyway.

Favourite class variant: Thug.
You still get bonus feats and now finally have some skills that are worth spending your extra skill points into. So you don't get medium/heavy armour proficiency. Big deal. At low levels you can'f afford full plate and at higher levels it is so much more important to be mobile.

Favourite ACF Resolute:
A bugfix for the poor maligned fighter. Sure, your to-hit suffers as your beatstick concentrates on warding off the mental assault(s). But it is a fair trade all things considered. Too bad it doesn't save you if you Armour of Goded your base save away...

Lycar

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-19, 04:45 AM
Spell Points (sans the stupid having to pay more for blasty spells rule).

Especially if you make them Transparent with Power Points :smallbiggrin:

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-19, 04:48 AM
Mystic Arcane hunter Wild Shape Ranger. Gods I want to play one so bad :smallsigh:

Thespianus
2010-06-19, 05:11 AM
The fractional BAB/saves should be core rules for all multiclassing anyway
This is the first time I've really looked up the rules for this. *sniffle* It's so beautiful.

My Rogue/Wizard/Fighter/Unseen Seer would love it, too. ;)

Tetsubo 57
2010-06-19, 05:52 AM
The Druid Shapeshift variant from the PHB II.

The Wilderness Rogue.

The barbarian variant that kicks in Rage at 1/2 hp level automatically.

For spell point magic I would use psionics.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 07:02 AM
Gestalt is great fun, but a variant I would really love to try (but never get an opportunity to) is the bell curve rolling variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm). Yes, I don't want to roll a d20, burn me.

Tetsubo 57
2010-06-19, 07:08 AM
Gestalt is great fun, but a variant I would really love to try (but never get an opportunity to) is the bell curve rolling variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm). Yes, I don't want to roll a d20, burn me.

You blaspheme!

I would miss my D20 and it would feel like I was playing GURPS. But it would make for a grittier game. I might give it a try though.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 07:13 AM
But it would make for a grittier game.Grittier? I don't know about that, but it would make your own modifiers more important.

Tetsubo 57
2010-06-19, 07:15 AM
Grittier? I don't know about that, but it would make your own modifiers more important.

Well, you get a *whole* lot more 10s and 11s with this system.

Scorpina
2010-06-19, 07:16 AM
I like the Cloistered Cleric and the Savage Bard quite a lot. I've also always wanted to try a game with the Generic Classes form the SRD.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 07:16 AM
Well, you get a *whole* lot more 10s and 11s with this system.That's the point. How that is "tough and uncompromising" is beyond me.

J.Gellert
2010-06-19, 07:23 AM
Maximum HPs for PCs
Instant-kill crits
No multiclassing penalties

These have been pretty much standard in all our games, for years now.

Non-Vancian casting variants have been used occassionally (when I play a Wizard).

molten_dragon
2010-06-19, 07:25 AM
I would really love to try out a gestalt game. It really appeals to the powergamer in me.
The recharge magic system also really intrigues me, however, I'm not willing to give up using the spell compendium, and I'm not willing to go through the whole thing and figure out what the recharge for each spell in there is, so it's unlikely I'll get to do that one.
I'm a big fan of weapon group feats, I think they just make more sense to me.

Yora
2010-06-19, 07:31 AM
I start my first E6 campaign next week. I really like how it looks on paper and now we'll see how it actually plays.

Tetsubo 57
2010-06-19, 07:32 AM
I like the Cloistered Cleric and the Savage Bard quite a lot. I've also always wanted to try a game with the Generic Classes form the SRD.

The Cloistered Cleric has fascinated me as well. The Generic Classes look interesting but I wonder how they play.

Kobold-Bard
2010-06-19, 07:32 AM
I start my first E6 campaign next week. I really like how it looks on paper and now we'll see how it actually plays.

Where is E6 to be found?

2xMachina
2010-06-19, 07:32 AM
No multiclassing penalties

^ Is great.

Also, like Point buy.

Tetsubo 57
2010-06-19, 07:34 AM
Where is E6 to be found?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-house-rules/202109-e6-game-inside-d-d-pdfs.html

Yora
2010-06-19, 09:38 AM
No multiclassing penalties

Also, like Point buy.

Point Buy is a variant? :smallbiggrin:

But also, no multiclass penalties here. We'll also use weapon groups for feats.

Rothen
2010-06-19, 09:42 AM
Both E6 and Gestalt, hands down. The first because it offers a great atmosphere, the second because it's fun to build sometyhing with a lot of synergy and then watch it work.

drengnikrafe
2010-06-19, 02:43 PM
Can you elaborate on your feat tree system?

Yes I can. I would have a lot sooner, but I left my computer to go do other things.
In any case, I'll use Weapon Focus as an example, because that's the one I can remember of the top of my head. You take WF, and get a +1 to attack rolls with your weapon. Once you have WF (and have reached 3rd level), you have the option to take Weapon Specialization and/or Power Critical. When you take either of those, you get the benefit given by that feat, but also get an additional +1 based on Weapon Focus. Then, when 9th level rolls around you can take Sure Strike and/or Duel Strike (each granting their own bonus, plus another +1 to Weapon Specialization, plus an addtional +1 to Weapon focus each). Plus, you can take Improved Critical and or Devistating Critical (each which comes with it's own bonuses, plus an additional +2 to Power Critical, plus an additional +1 to Weapon Focus).

In my experience, it has made fighters suck a lot less, since those once useless feats now make a difference every time you take a feat that it is based on.

Greenish
2010-06-19, 02:46 PM
Yes I can. I would have a lot sooner, but I left my computer to go do other things.
In any case, I'll use Weapon Focus as an example, because that's the one I can remember of the top of my head. You take WF, and get a +1 to attack rolls with your weapon. Once you have WF (and have reached 3rd level), you have the option to take Weapon Specialization and/or Power Critical. When you take either of those, you get the benefit given by that feat, but also get an additional +1 based on Weapon Focus. Then, when 9th level rolls around you can take Sure Strike and/or Duel Strike (each granting their own bonus, plus another +1 to Weapon Specialization, plus an addtional +1 to Weapon focus each). Plus, you can take Improved Critical and or Devistating Critical (each which comes with it's own bonuses, plus an additional +2 to Power Critical, plus an additional +1 to Weapon Focus).

In my experience, it has made fighters suck a lot less, since those once useless feats now make a difference every time you take a feat that it is based on.Why didn't you just make the feats scale by level?

Terazul
2010-06-19, 02:49 PM
Fractional BAB/Saves/Whatnot, E6, Level Adjustment -> Decreased Point Buy, Weapon Groups, A million and one ACFs, most of the stuff from the homebrew forum... the list goes on. Options are neat.

drengnikrafe
2010-06-19, 02:52 PM
Why didn't you just make the feats scale by level?

I'm not the one who designed it. Also, it feels slightly unfair to give absolutely no reason for one feat to be the prerequisite of another, while granting no bonus other than the fact you have access to a new feat.

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-19, 05:10 PM
I could think at so many, but Gestalt > all. Seriously, it increases the options of the campaign, makes PCS and NPCs more deep and versatile, helps the creation of the character you are dreaming on.

Weapon groups and Fractional BAB shortly thereafter.

Myou
2010-06-19, 07:28 PM
Gestalt, just lovely, and it's fun to see how popular it is this year. :smallsmile:
Fractional bab and saves.
Spell points.
Normal Distribution rolls. (What is this 'bell curve' of which you speak?)


Gestalt is great fun, but a variant I would really love to try (but never get an opportunity to) is the bell curve rolling variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm). Yes, I don't want to roll a d20, burn me.

Do iiiiit. I brought in 3d6 months ago and it's working great. People hugely exaggerate the statistical clustering - a 3 or 18 may be vary rare, but it doesn't really hurt the game at all. The only important effect is to condense the range of power levels. But a little care from the DM and you won't even notice.

Rin_Hunter
2010-06-19, 07:32 PM
Anything in my Variant Systems thread :smallbiggrin: (I need to promote it as much as possible because I don't get any comments that help me improve anything there)

I personally quite like the facing rules and spell points system from the Unearthed Arcana, as well as some class variants such as Eckletic Learning for the Warmage (which I've allowed to be used with any class that gets Advanced Learning) and the Skeletal Minion variant for the Necromancer Wizard.

EDIT: And Gestalt. I love Gestalt.

Math_Mage
2010-06-19, 08:03 PM
Gestalt is great fun, but a variant I would really love to try (but never get an opportunity to) is the bell curve rolling variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm). Yes, I don't want to roll a d20, burn me.

I'm personally intrigued by the 2d10 bell curve. Closer to the original system, but not completely flat.

Cog
2010-06-19, 10:52 PM
I'm personally intrigued by the 2d10 bell curve. Closer to the original system, but not completely flat.
A variant I've heard suggested is d8+d12 - it's still only two dice, but you get a flat probability range in the middle so it's a little more curvy.

Starscream
2010-06-19, 11:13 PM
I'm fond of combining Gestalt with the Tier system, to allow for some powerful but fairly well-balanced characters.

In my version, a tier 1 class can gestalt with a tier 6, a tier 2 with a tier 5, and a tier 3 with a tier 4. You can also gestalt with a class of a worse tier if you like.

Leads to some fun combinations. Wizard/Warriors, Wu Jen/Ninjas, Swordsage/Rogues, etc.

I also rule than any PrC you take that raises you above Tier 1 means no gestalt for those levels (or rather that you gestalt with commoner, which is pretty much the same thing). This means that there are actual advantages to staying in the same class.

For example, a wizard who gestalts as a warrior has full BaB, d8 HD, and a good fort save. If he enters a PrC that raises his tier, he gives those features up as well as the normally lost familiar progression and bonus feats. It means there are actual advantages to being a wizard 20, over say a wizard 5 with 15 levels of prestige classes. There are still plenty of PrCs that are worth it, but at least you give something up.

Likewise, this can make multiclassing a bit less painful. Let's use the wizard example again (because wizards rule). Few experienced players ever go into Arcane Trickster because you need 3 levels of rogue to do so. Who would give up three levels of wizard for 3 levels of rogue?! No one with any sense, that's for sure. But if you were giving up 3 levels of wizard for, say, 3 levels of rogue and three levels of warblade you just might consider it a decent trade. Still not optimal, but way better than what you would get for your levels in a normal game.

Coidzor
2010-06-19, 11:25 PM
Heh. So a selling point is that it makes bad choices more tempting for the unguarded.

Starscream
2010-06-19, 11:48 PM
Heh. So a selling point is that it makes bad choices more tempting for the unguarded.

Well, to a point. It makes bad choices (like giving up caster levels) less bad, because you'll get more for them. Likewise it makes really obvious choices (like PrCing out of wizard as soon as possible) less good because you are actually giving up something useful.

Which isn't to say that people won't still do those things, this just makes it a little more balanced. I think there are a lot of perfectly fun options that get rejected out of hand simply because they are not the most optimal. Sure, some choices are just plain bad, and others are just plain great, but this blurs the line a little.

For example, monk actually becomes a valuable class in this system. Three good saves, nice AC bonus, greatly increased speed, etc. It was never enough to make it a good class on its own, but it can be used to pimp a strong class into an even stronger one. Druid is Tier 1, Spirit Shaman is Tier 2, but a Spirit Shaman//Monk gets enough of a boost to be Tier 1 as well.