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Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 04:31 PM
The Aodhàn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152688) are a very youthful and carefree people, with a zeal for the arts and the pursuit of true wisdom. They live a very safe, secure life among their communes which they refer to in word and thought as their families. But this this safety comes at a price. And that price is paid by the Aodhàn Sentinel.
The Aodhàn Sentinel are a group of elite Aodhàn fighters that create a wide perimeter around their certain migrating commune, watching for and dispatching any intruders of ill-intent. The Aodhàn Sentinel are the guardians of their people. And they take their duty with utmost seriousness, though still amiable and light-hearted when time permits.
The Sentinel follow The Way, their moral law of honor. The Sentinel never hesitate. They follow the laws of The Way in any given situation, which makes any Sentry an able leader.
The Way:


Cóir (honesty and justice): A samurai deals openly and honestly with others and cleaves to the ideals of justice. Moral decisions do not come in shades of gray, only right and wrong.
Meisnech (heroic courage): A sentry never fears to act, but lives life fully and wonderfully. Respect and caution replace fear.
Atrua (compassion): A sentry takes every opportunity to aid others, and creates opportunities when they do not arise. As a powerful individual, a sentr has a responsibility to use that power to help others.
Gaidheal (polite courtesy): A sentry has no reason to be cruel, and no need to prove his strength. Courtesy distinguishes a sentry from an animal, and reveals one’s true strength.
Oineach (honor): A sentry’s conscience is the judge of his honor. The decisions he makes and how he carries them out are a reflection of his true nature.
Indracus (complete sincerity): When a sentry has said that he shall perform an action, it is as good as done. He need not make promises; speaking and doing are as if the same.
Dilseacht (duty and loyalty): A sentry feels responsible for his actions and their consequences, and loyal to the people in his care. A sentry's loyalty to those in his care is unquestionable and unquestioning.


Though warriors of their people, the Aodhàn Sentinel find no peace or happiness in killing, though they have honed it to a fine art. To them, it is a means to an end, the end being the continued happiness and protection of the family that they walk with, eat with, and watch over each day of their lives. Because they abhor needless bloodshed, the Sentinel has perfected the art of invoking fear in an enemy, so that they do not have to dispatch of them unless absolutely necessary. In this way, the Aodhàn Sentinel appear as the devil himself to their enemies, and as angels of strength and security to their family members.
The Aodhàn civilians are vastly unaware of the Aodhàn Sentinel's role in their safety, understanding that they always watching over them in the shadows unseen. Yet, not really understanding how many times in one day an Aodhàn Sentry puts his life on the line. The role is not a completely appreciated one, but the job itself is enough satisfaction to the watchmen of the Aodhàn themselves. With their two blades at their sides, they stand guard. In the distance, just behind the wind. In the trees. Near the riverbed. Wherever the Aodhàn people walk, there their Sentinel will follow, creating peace for their friends and loved ones.

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww56/ZangetsuJC/Maddox__Destrayan_Elf_by_Natalie79.jpg

Disclaimer: This is, in fact, a character I am making for myself. In future, I hope to create this as a class. But for now, I just need this narrow class fulfilled so please don't judge it on versatility as it's a very particular class for a very particular character. Criticism is encourage. Thank you.

Table: The Sentry Hit Die: d10.
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will| Special
1 | +1 | +0 |+2 | +2 | Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Quick to act +1, The Two-Weapon Path, Pledge of loyalty, Bloodless Duel, , Mind over matter, Nimble Assailant
2 | +2 | +0 | +3 | +3 | AC Bonus, Iajutsu master
3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | +3 | Nightmare Blade, Signature weapon
4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Insightful Strike, Hear the Air
5 | +5 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Quick to act +2, Staredown, Ancestral guidance
6 | +6/+1 | +2 | +5| +5 | Evasion
7 | +7/+2 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Power surge
8 | +8/+3 | +2 | +6 | +6 | Improved staredown
9 | +9/+4 | +3 | +6 | +6 | Whirlwind
10 | +10/+5 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Quick to act +3, Ki projection
11 | +11/+6/+1 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Intimidating glance, Quicksilver
12 | +12/+7/+2 | +4 | +8 | +8 |
13 | +13/+8/+3 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Improved Evasion
14 | +14/+9/+4 | +4 | +9 | +9 | Intimidating stance
15 | +15/+10/+5 | +5 | +9 | +9 | Quick to act +4,Greater staredown
16 | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +5 | +10 | +10 | Horde killer
17 | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 |
18 | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +6 | +10 | +11 | Mass staredown
19 | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Uninhibited
20 | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +6 | +12 | +12 | Quick to act +5, Fear mastery
[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier, x6 at 1st level): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft*, Diplomacy, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Search, Spot, Tumble
* This skill is actually a category encompassing many separate but related skills, such as Craft (weaponsmith) or Perform (oratory). Each skill must be taken separately.

CLASS FEATURES
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Sentry is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with the Katana (Bastard Sword) and with light armors, but not with shields or tower shields. Sentry wear light armor normally and are trained extensively with two-weapon fighting (Particularly with the Katana), and thus do not carry shields.
Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a Sentry’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to his/her Sentry level.
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a Sentry can use detect evil.
Quick to Act (Ex): You gain a +1 bonus on initiative checks. This bonus increases by 1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
Nimble Assailant: A Sentry uses Dex instead of Str for To Hit. He still uses Str for damage.
AC Bonus (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, you can ad your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to AC, so long as you wear light armor, are unencumbered, and do not use a shield. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. However, you lose this bonus when you are immobilized or helpless.
Oath of Guardianship: Sentry pledge their lives in defense of their people, in particular a single commune. To fulfill their oath, they must always follow The Way, the Sentry's moral code. They must also always do what is best for the Aodhàn people, even at the expense of going against the High Council, the rulers of the people, to fulfill that goal. As long as a Sentry does these two things, he cannot be forced to act against his people by mind-affecting effects.
Bloodless Duel: Sentry are powerful figures – they are extremely skilled and self-confident, able to face any foe without flinching and with the sure knowledge that, regardless of how the fight goes, they lived a life of which they can be proud and intend to die honourably. When a Sentry enters a duel, he may be able to stop the fight before it starts, cowing his opponent into surrendering before blood is shed. When this ability is used, each duellist must make a Charisma check with a DC equal to the honour of the opposing person (If you don't use variant rule honor system, just use opposed Cha checks). If the Sentry’s check succeeds by a greater margin than his opponent, that opponent immediately concedes the battle and sheathes his weapon. If the Sentry fails his check, or does not succeed by a greater margin than his opponent, he must immediately make a Will save (DC equal to the opponent’s honour) or suffer a –2 circumstance penalty on any attack roll made during the duel.
The Two-Weapon Path:
At 1st level, the Sentry gains Two-Weapon fighting and the Over-Sized Two-Weapon fighting feat so that he can wield 2 Katanas.


Two Swords as One (Ex): At 5th level, the Sentry has no penalty for Two-Weapon fighting.

Improved Two Swords As One (Ex): At 10th level, the Katana-wielding Sentry's synergy with his two weapons increases. 1/Encounter, the Sentry may strike with both Katanas at once using a single roll at full BAB. This only counts as a single attack.

Strength Of Two (Ex): At 15th level, if the Sentry is wielding his katana in his main and off-hand, he may apply his full Strength bonus to damage on both weapons when he attacks.

Flurry Of Steel (Ex): At 20th level, 1/encounter, the Sentry can choose to make a single melee attack with both katanas that, if successful, deals an automatic 150 points extra melee damage (in addition to your normal melee damage) or a Whirlwind attack with each successful hit dealing an extra 50 points of melee damage. this takes a standard action.

Iajutsu Master: Quick draw feat when a Sentry draws his Katana(s).
Nightmare Blade (Ex):

Sapphire (Level 3): 1/encounter, you may attempt a Concentration check as part of this attack, using the target creature's AC as the DC of the check. You then make a single melee attack against your target. If your Concentration check succeeds, the target is flat-footed against your attack, and you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage. If your check fails, your attack is made with a -2 penalty and deals normal damage. At 8th and 15th level, the per encounter use increases by 1.
Ruby (Level 9): 1/encounter, you may attempt a Concentration check as part of this attack, using the target creature's AC as the DC of the check. You then make a single melee attack against your target. If your Concentration check succeeds, then your attack deals 2x normal melee damage. If your check fails, your attack is made with a -2 penalty and deals only normal melee damage. If you strike a critical hit, you stack the multipliers as normal (PHB p. 304). At 16th level, the per encounter use increases by 1.
Diamond (Level 17): 1/encounter, you may attempt a Concentration check as part of this attack, using the target creature's AC as the DC of the check. You then make a single melee attack against your target. If your Concentration check succeeds, then your attack deals 4x normal melee damage. If your check fails, your attack is made with a -2 penalty and deals only normal melee damage.
Insightful strike: At 4th level, you can add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus on attack rolls. At 8th level you can add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to damage rolls.
Staredown (Ex): A 5th-level Sentry gains Skill Focus (Intimidate) as a bonus feat, and may attempt to demoralize a foe as a move action.
Ancestral Guidance (Sp): At 5th level, a Sentry may seek guidance from the world energies. This counts as a commune effect that can be used once a day. This works like a speak with dead effect that may be used once per day.
Signature Weapons: The Sentry chooses his Katanas to become his signature weapons. The XP cost escalates with the weapon bonus gained from it's imbuing. Bonuses apply to each Katana individually. Upon attaining a signature weapon of +1 or higher bonus, the Katana(s) are treated as Lawful Good in alignment and magical for the purposes of striking incorporeal beings.
{table=head]Class Level | Weapon Bonus
3rd | +1
6th | +2
9th | +3
12th | +4
15th | +5
[/table]
Hear the Air (Ex): You gain blindsense (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Blindsight_and_Blindsense) out to 30 ft and a +5 insight bonus on Listen checks.
Whirlwind Attack: A Sentry gains Whirlwind as a bonus feat at 9th level.
Power Surge: At 7th level, 1/day, a Sentry gains the ability to focus his energy and spirit as a move action. If he succeeds, he gains +8 to his Dexterity for a # of rounds equal to 1/2 his class level. At 14th this increases to 2/day. At 20th this increases again to 3/day.
Improved Staredown (Ex): At 8th level, the Sentry becomes even more intimidating. Opponents he successfully demoralizes with the Intimidate skill are shaken for an additional number of rounds equal to the Sentry's Charisma modifier.
Mind over matter: Sentry do not need to eat or sleep very much. Sleeping 2-4 hours a day is more than enough, and one pound of food will suffice for as much as 3 days without significant hunger side affects. Additionally, poisons are half as effective against Sentry due to their discipline of mind.
Evasion (Ex): You gain Evasion (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Evasion_and_Improved_Evasion).
Ki Projection: At 10th level, a Sentry adds 1/2 his class level to any Diplomacy, Gather Information, Sense Motive, or Intimidate checks he makes. At 14th level and higher, the Sentry adds his full class level to such checks.
Intimidating Glance (Ex): An 11th-level Sentry can intimidate a foe with merely a glance. Using the Intimidate skill to attempt to demoralize an opponent is now a swift action for him.
Quicksilver: At 11th Level, the Sentry gains the permanent ability to move with quick bursts of speed, slicing with such a flurry of blows, that results in distraction leaving the enemy confused. When a Sentry's target has been downed, he may automatically make an attack against one adjacent opponent at full BAB as an immediate action. This opponent is automatically caught flat-footed. At 15th level, this ability has no limit.
Improved Evasion: When a Sentry reaches 13th level, he gains the Improved Evasion (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Evasion_and_Improved_Evasion) feat.
Intimidating Stance (Ex): A Sentry of 14th level or higher may attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize all opponents he threatens in combat.
Greater Staredown (Ex): A 15th-level Sentry gains an additional +2 competence bonus to Intimidate checks.
The Walk: At level 9, a Sentry's base movement speed increases to +10 ft.


At level 12, a Sentry can move at x3/2 movement speed when in combat.
At level 15, a Sentry can move at x2 movement speed when in combat.


Horde Killer: You gain a number of extra attacks of opportunity each round equal to your Dexterity Bonus (if positive).
Mass Staredown (Ex): At 18th level, the Sentry gains the ability to attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize all opponents within 30 feet of him who can see him.
Uninhibited (Ex): When wearing light armor, the Sentry no longer takes armor check penalties or speed penalties, can use all of his Dexterity modifier, and retains all of the armor's armor bonus. (The Sentry still takes penalties involving shields.)
Fear Mastery (Ex): The Sentinel believe that, to become a Sentry worthy of high respect, you must master the enemy within you completely: fear. And to master your fear, you must become fear. At 20th level, the Sentry must find what it is they truly fear, face it, and destroy it. Only then can you truly say you are worthy of more fear yourself, and thus inspire it within the hearts of your external enemies.

Whenever you attack or charge, all opponents within a 30’ radius, who have fewer levels/HD than you do
become Shaken for (1d6 + Charisma modifier) rounds (WillNeg, DC = 10 + ½ character level + Charisma
modifier). On a successful save, the opponent is immune to your Frightful Presence for 24 hours.
This ability cannot affect creatures with Intelligence 3 or lower, nor does it work on Dragons.
A master of fear is immune to all fear effects.

Morph Bark
2010-06-19, 04:40 PM
At just a quick glanceover, it seems like an only marginally more powerful Samurai... but not by much. It gets a bit of Paladin, Monk and Ranger at the very beginning it seems, but it's overall level of power is still quite the same.

Perhaps your concept might work better as a PrC?

Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 04:51 PM
At just a quick glanceover, it seems like an only marginally more powerful Samurai... but not by much. It gets a bit of Paladin, Monk and Ranger at the very beginning it seems, but it's overall level of power is still quite the same.

Perhaps your concept might work better as a PrC?

It is meant to be PC. That's in my disclaimer at the top. Look at Nightmare Blade and The 2 weapon path. I would consider it more than marginally powerful compared to the Samurai. Might be wrong though.

Morph Bark
2010-06-19, 05:02 PM
As I said, quick glanceover. I like to skim before getting to the details. :smallsmile:

What do you mean by "its meant to be PC"? Is that supposed to be an argument against making it a Prestige Class? If it is supposed to be for a very particular kind of character, I would think it'd make more sense to make it into a Prestige Class, personally. :smallconfused:

Anyhoo, I looked at those two and they seem fair. Little bugged about the fact it forces you to always use two katanas, but okay, you're not going for versatility whatsoever, alright.

Nightmare Blade bugs me though. Especially since the uses of Sapphire and Ruby never increase, but instead you gain more uses of more powerful abilities. That doesn't really make much sense. Giving Sapphire Nightmare Blade one extra use at level 8 and 15 and make Ruby and Diamond start at one use per encounter, with Ruby gaining one extra use at level 16 would be better and have it scale nicely.

Also, Signature Weapons goes too fast, and before then you got nothing and after that you get nothing extra. Have it scale a little better. +1 at 3, +2 at 6, and so on. I would take away the XP cost too, or make it a choice: either XP or 12.5 times as much gold. Something like that.

Zore
2010-06-19, 05:06 PM
No, this is a pretty weak class and its abilities lack any sort of synergy. Its really MAD, as it relies on every other stat for its class abilities. It has increases in movement, and an emphasis on oversized two weapon fighting. No source of readily available bonus damage or ability to full attack after moving make two weapon fighting extremely weak anyways.

Ambidexterity was only a thing in 3.0 edition, its folded into regular two weapon fighting now which is a feat this class oddly lacks though it gets Oversized two weapon fighting.

You say you took inspiration from the swordsage, but all I see is an increased dependance on wisdom for AC and Damage and a minor bonus to initiative. Its like you took a bunch of melee classes and removed all of their powerful abilities, letting this guy have the B stuff. No maneuvers from Swordsage except a few nerfed ones you can use at midlevels and up that do pitiful damage and make single attacks when you focus on two weapon fighting. Most of the CW Samurai and some weak CHA reliant skills that will never be used because this class needs four other attributes more. A weird ability to gain 8 dex for max ten rounds a day... which is odd and almost useless. Some minor Paladin and Monk stuff which is about the weakest stuff their already weak classes had to offer.

Its just a mess of weak and unsynergestic abilities crammed together. A vanilla swordsage could do just about everything this class seems like it should be able to, and more effectively.

ninjaneer003
2010-06-19, 05:15 PM
Bloodless Duel: Sentry are powerful figures – they are extremely skilled and self-confident, able to face any foe without flinching and with the sure knowledge that, regardless of how the fight goes, they lived a life of which they can be proud and intend to die honourably. When a Sentry enters a duel, he may be able to stop the fight before it starts, cowing his opponent into surrendering before blood is shed. When this ability is used, each duellist must make a Charisma check with a DC equal to the honour of the opposing person. If the Sentry’s check succeeds by a greater margin than his opponent, that opponent immediately concedes the battle and sheathes his weapon. If the Sentry fails his check, or does not succeed by a greater margin than his opponent, he must immediately make a Will save (DC equal to the opponent’s honour) or suffer a –2 circumstance penalty on any attack roll made during the duel.

How do you judge honor of other characters or NPCs



The Two-Weapon Path:
At 1st level, the Sentry gains Ambidexterity, which allows him to use Two-Weapon weapon fighting without penalty, in order to maneuver his Katanas and the Oversized-Two-Weapon fighting feat that allows him to duel-wield them.

[INDENT][SPOILER]Two Swords as One (Ex): At 5th level, the Sentry may apply the benefits of any weapon-specific feats (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc.) he selects for one katana to his other as well whenever he is wielding both at the same time.




I believe fighting with out a penalty is called superior two weapon fighting, and i believe that this and the oversized two weapon fighting should be spread out a little instead of all clumped together at 1st level. You could give two-weapon fighting at 1st lvl, over-sized weapon fighting at a slightly higher, like 4th or something, lvl and then superior two weapon fighting at an even higher lvl, i'd say around 7th.

Ok two swords as one i believe is useless since you take bonuses from weapon-specific feats when you have two of the same weapon. If the bonus applies to one weapon it applies to the second as well. so due away with this and spread out the starter feats


{table=head]Class Level | Weapon Bonus | XP Cost
6th | +1 | 80
7th | +2 | 320
8th | +3 | 720
9th | +4 | 1280
10th | +5 | 2,000
[/table]

Your not a kensai so i don't really feel like this is appropriate. The bonus going up every other lvl makes me feel better about is though, so +1 at 6, +2 at 8, +3 at 10, and so on

I think it would be cool to add an ability that let you use your dexterity instead of you str on attack rolls while using power surge, this gives the ability a little more power

I like how this has a taste of the swordsage added to your last class, but not overmuch, it's nice

Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 05:16 PM
No, this is a pretty weak class and its abilities lack any sort of synergy. Its really MAD, as it relies on every other stat for its class abilities. It has increases in movement, and an emphasis on oversized two weapon fighting. No source of readily available bonus damage or ability to full attack after moving make two weapon fighting extremely weak anyways.

Ambidexterity was only a thing in 3.0 edition, its folded into regular two weapon fighting now which is a feat this class oddly lacks though it gets Oversized two weapon fighting.

You say you took inspiration from the swordsage, but all I see is an increased dependance on wisdom for AC and Damage and a minor bonus to initiative. Its like you took a bunch of melee classes and removed all of their powerful abilities, letting this guy have the B stuff. No maneuvers from Swordsage except a few nerfed ones you can use at midlevels and up that do pitiful damage and make single attacks when you focus on two weapon fighting. Most of the CW Samurai and some weak CHA reliant skills that will never be used because this class needs four other attributes more. A weird ability to gain 8 dex for max ten rounds a day... which is odd and almost useless. Some minor Paladin and Monk stuff which is about the weakest stuff their already weak classes had to offer.

Its just a mess of weak and unsynergestic abilities crammed together. A vanilla swordsage could do just about everything this class seems like it should be able to, and more effectively.

Ummm...I'm assuming this was supposed to be a productive comment. Any constructive help besides the fact that you don't like it? Otherwise I don't see the point of a comment as I spent a lot of time on writing this all up and won't just have the post deleted.

Zore
2010-06-19, 05:33 PM
Ummm...I'm assuming this was supposed to be a productive comment. Any constructive help besides the fact that you don't like it? Otherwise I don't see the point of a comment as I spent a lot of time on writing this all up and won't just have the post deleted.

Sorry, that wasn't supposed to be an "I don't like it". It was supposed to back up what had been posted by M-Bark with examples, it is roughly the level of the Samurai.

Basically this class needs a main schtick. Something defining like a Barbarian's Rage or the martial Adept's Maneuvers. Preferably something that helps out its abilities with Two Weapon Fighting, like a scaling ability to attack with both as a standard action until you have a pounce equivalent. Or more maneuvers 1 or 2 per encounter, hopefully ones again that work to help two weapon fighting as this class is forced to use it. It needs more ability to do damage, and maybe shift its CHA dependent abilities to Strength as this class already requires fairly high,

Strength- To do Damage
Dexterity- For AC and because you are forced to Two Weapon Fight and you don't get improved and greater for free, meaning you have to take them normally and hit their dex requirements.
Constitution- Everyone needs CON
Wisdom- For Attack, Damage and AC

CHA seems unnecessary as the benefits a high Charisma offers are minimal in comparison.

You also may want to add a source of bonus damage, similar to a rogue's sneak attack.

Sorry if my previous post felt like an attack.

Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 05:43 PM
As I said, quick glanceover. I like to skim before getting to the details. :smallsmile:

What do you mean by "its meant to be PC"? Is that supposed to be an argument against making it a Prestige Class? If it is supposed to be for a very particular kind of character, I would think it'd make more sense to make it into a Prestige Class, personally. :smallconfused:

Anyhoo, I looked at those two and they seem fair. Little bugged about the fact it forces you to always use two katanas, but okay, you're not going for versatility whatsoever, alright.

Nightmare Blade bugs me though. Especially since the uses of Sapphire and Ruby never increase, but instead you gain more uses of more powerful abilities. That doesn't really make much sense. Giving Sapphire Nightmare Blade one extra use at level 8 and 15 and make Ruby and Diamond start at one use per encounter, with Ruby gaining one extra use at level 16 would be better and have it scale nicely.

Also, Signature Weapons goes too fast, and before then you got nothing and after that you get nothing extra. Have it scale a little better. +1 at 3, +2 at 6, and so on. I would take away the XP cost too, or make it a choice: either XP or 12.5 times as much gold. Something like that.

Sorry didnt read the little r in between your PrC haha. Um, heres the thing...I can find no base class that fits what I want for this specific character. I would take swordsage but not need the versatility that the maneuvers provides. I just want to be a really good swordsman rather. So, This being a PrC would work, but I would like to make it a regular class if possible.

If it bugs you that it forces you to use 2 katanas, just imagine it as being this one, singular character. Very narrow scope.

Awesome suggestion on the Nightmare blade Much appreciated. I haven't had much experience at class creation so this is all great.

Okay I will take away the xp cost. Thought that would balance it but if its unnecessary than even better!

sscheib
2010-06-19, 05:56 PM
Sorry, that wasn't supposed to be an "I don't like it". It was supposed to back up what had been posted by M-Bark with examples, it is roughly the level of the Samurai.

Basically this class needs a main schtick. Something defining like a Barbarian's Rage or the martial Adept's Maneuvers. Preferably something that helps out its abilities with Two Weapon Fighting, like a scaling ability to attack with both as a standard action until you have a pounce equivalent. Or more maneuvers 1 or 2 per encounter, hopefully ones again that work to help two weapon fighting as this class is forced to use it. It needs more ability to do damage, and maybe shift its CHA dependent abilities to Strength as this class already requires fairly high,

Strength- To do Damage
Dexterity- For AC and because you are forced to Two Weapon Fight and you don't get improved and greater for free, meaning you have to take them normally and hit their dex requirements.
Constitution- Everyone needs CON
Wisdom- For Attack, Damage and AC

CHA seems unnecessary as the benefits a high Charisma offers are minimal in comparison.

You also may want to add a source of bonus damage, similar to a rogue's sneak attack.

Sorry if my previous post felt like an attack.

I agree entirely. The class just feels bland, even if it is supposed to be for a specific character.

I told you someone would mention PrC :P

Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 07:53 PM
How do you judge honor of other characters or NPCs



I believe fighting with out a penalty is called superior two weapon fighting, and i believe that this and the oversized two weapon fighting should be spread out a little instead of all clumped together at 1st level. You could give two-weapon fighting at 1st lvl, over-sized weapon fighting at a slightly higher, like 4th or something, lvl and then superior two weapon fighting at an even higher lvl, i'd say around 7th.

Ok two swords as one i believe is useless since you take bonuses from weapon-specific feats when you have two of the same weapon. If the bonus applies to one weapon it applies to the second as well. so due away with this and spread out the starter feats



Your not a kensai so i don't really feel like this is appropriate. The bonus going up every other lvl makes me feel better about is though, so +1 at 6, +2 at 8, +3 at 10, and so on

I think it would be cool to add an ability that let you use your dexterity instead of you str on attack rolls while using power surge, this gives the ability a little more power

I like how this has a taste of the swordsage added to your last class, but not overmuch, it's nice

I updated it in case people don't use honor in their campaigns. We're using it in ours.

For spreading out the 1st level stuff, they have to have oversized weapon feat at 1st to use their 2 katanas. I moved superior weapon fighting to where you wanted though.

"Ok two swords as one i believe is useless since you take bonuses from weapon-specific feats when you have two of the same weapon. If the bonus applies to one weapon it applies to the second as well. so due away with this and spread out the starter feats"
Can you explain this a bit better I'm not following.

Spread out the kensai thing. Don't know why only kensai's should be able to do this though. It seems like a pretty understandable thing among sword disciple classes.

I like the idea for power surge! I changed it.

Thanks for the help!

Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 08:19 PM
Sorry, that wasn't supposed to be an "I don't like it". It was supposed to back up what had been posted by M-Bark with examples, it is roughly the level of the Samurai.

Basically this class needs a main schtick. Something defining like a Barbarian's Rage or the martial Adept's Maneuvers. Preferably something that helps out its abilities with Two Weapon Fighting, like a scaling ability to attack with both as a standard action until you have a pounce equivalent. Or more maneuvers 1 or 2 per encounter, hopefully ones again that work to help two weapon fighting as this class is forced to use it. It needs more ability to do damage, and maybe shift its CHA dependent abilities to Strength as this class already requires fairly high,

Strength- To do Damage
Dexterity- For AC and because you are forced to Two Weapon Fight and you don't get improved and greater for free, meaning you have to take them normally and hit their dex requirements.
Constitution- Everyone needs CON
Wisdom- For Attack, Damage and AC

CHA seems unnecessary as the benefits a high Charisma offers are minimal in comparison.

You also may want to add a source of bonus damage, similar to a rogue's sneak attack.

Sorry if my previous post felt like an attack.

Ah, no worries. My bad. Thought that was just a comment directed at me.

So this main shtick, I definitely agree that it needs a certain something. Will have a think and try some stuff out. Might add more maneuvers or combo manuevers or something. Will change the Cha stuff.

Do you think it would be sensible to just give them Weapon Finesse to just cut out Str being so important?

What do you think of being quick enough to pull off a sneak attack in combat, not relying on stealth, but more so speed as the element of surprise?

Thanks for your input.

The-Mage-King
2010-06-19, 08:33 PM
Ah, no worries. My bad. Thought that was just a comment directed at me.

So this main shtick, I definitely agree that it needs a certain something. Will have a think and try some stuff out. Might add more maneuvers or combo manuevers or something. Will change the Cha stuff.

Do you think it would be sensible to just give them Weapon Finesse to just cut out Str being so important?

What do you think of being quick enough to pull off a sneak attack in combat, not relying on stealth, but more so speed as the element of surprise?

Thanks for your input.


...

...Weapon Finesse does not increase damage by Dex. It increases attack rolls by Dex. And only attack rolls with light/specifically claimed to be Finesse-able weapons.

I suggest that you try this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19523418/Base_Class:_Iaidoka:_P.E.A.C.H.?pg=1) class from WotC's boards. It basically fills what you're looking for, in my opinion...

All you need to do then is take the TWF tree, and bam! Done with your build.

Maybe add a few levels of Swordsage later to get the Wis based AC bonus and some maneuvers you seem to be looking for, too...

Kinslayer777
2010-06-19, 09:08 PM
I agree entirely. The class just feels bland, even if it is supposed to be for a specific character.

I told you someone would mention PrC :P

What do you think of the changes? Colin and I have been working on it.

Kinslayer777
2010-06-20, 08:25 AM
I suggest that you try this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19523418/Base_Class:_Iaidoka:_P.E.A.C.H.?pg=1) class from WotC's boards. It basically fills what you're looking for, in my opinion...

I appreciate the link. Might use it for another character. But not really what I'm thinking for this one. Thanks though.