Question about Bahamut and Mystra

[Mystic Muse]

What is/would their relationship be with each other? I want to take the sword of the arcane order feat in a couple of levels but I'm already a Paladin of Bahamut who'll be a Dragonborn in a couple of levels. I'm just trying to find out whether it's possible for my current Paladin to take the feat or if I'll have to convince my DM to allow me to refluff it. (Or, you know, just choose a different feat.)

Current Paladin prefers redeeming things to killing them if that affects anything.

[ZeroNumerous]

What is/would their relationship be with each other?

Neutral? Non-existent, I think, would be more appropriate. Plus, isn't Mystra dead again or is she alive now?

[Mystic Muse]

Neutral? Non-existent, I think, would be more appropriate. Plus, isn't Mystra dead again or is she alive now?

I actually don't know much about Mystra other than that she's neutral good. That's why I'm asking.

[Eurus]

Do they even exist in the same campaign setting, canonically? I mean, I'm not entirely sure what settings Bahamut is considered a staple in...

[Mystic Muse]

Do they even exist in the same campaign setting, canonically? I mean, I'm not entirely sure what settings Bahamut is considered a staple in...

I don't know. In the current campaign world I'm in it sounds like everything but Ebberon and setting specific material are valid.

[ZeroNumerous]

I don't know. In the current campaign world I'm in it sounds like everything but Ebberon and setting specific material are valid.

Then you're golden, because Mystra is Faerun specific.

[Dracons]

Just ask your DM.

We have no idea what setting he is in.

If we are to assume generic, likely not seeing as that Sword of the Arcane order is a setting specific feat.


Do Mystra and him have an allience? Not that I know off. Is he in Faruen? Likely YES, seeing as Tiamat is.

[Coidzor]

Hmm... So not necessarily Forgotten Realms setting... So you have some options for the DM waiving the fluff requirement by just necessitating you join an additional order within the orders of Bahamut or a knight-house or whatever.

As for their relationship, I don't know. Theoretically on the same side, sharing some common enemies, as the evil deities are wont to cause.

[Mystic Muse]

The reason I'm asking here is because he hasn't responded to my last two messages yet and I'd rather not wait another two weeks for an answer. (our group only meets once every two weeks and we couldn't meet today.)

[Dracons]

Sorry bro. We could all say yes it's fine, and you try to show up saying bunch of people said it was fine on the net, he'd could just laugh at you and say no.

We cannot say anything. Its completly up to him.

[Mystic Muse]

Sorry bro. We could all say yes it's fine, and you try to show up saying bunch of people said it was fine on the net, he'd could just laugh at you and say no.

We cannot say anything. Its completly up to him.

Oh, I'm fully aware of this. I was just hoping there'd be a precedent for allowing it which would help my case if I needed to make one.

[Ankhman]

not sure about the feat, but mystra and bahamut do both exist in the fearun setting ... (at least they do in 3.5) ... so it COULD be possible. depends on your DM.

[Greymane]

While my Faerun-fu is pretty good (in 3.x anyway), I don't recall the two of them ever interacting much. As was mentioned before, they likely have common enemies and they're only one step away from each other alignment wise.

If all else fails, you could claim your character is interested in getting the two faiths to ally and/or interact, and so wishes to be liason between them or something. The possibilities are endless.

[gorfnab]

Bahamut does exist in Faerun as an Intermediate Deity. Mystra is a Greater Deity. But as far as I know, they've had little or no real interaction with each other.

[gbprime]

Yeah, honestly if your DM wants to allow a Paladin of Dragon Dude to also be a Mystic of Magic Lady, that's totally up to him. I haven't seen a DM yet who outright declared two things like this to be incompatible, but that depends on your power level relative to the other characters.

[herrhauptmann]

Perhaps you could search through draconomicon/dragon magic/deities+demigods/whatever , find a dragon deity who has the magic portfolio and is 'good,' preferably lawful as well.
Once you've got that, then just get permission to refluff sword of arcane order into group run by all magic gods, not just mystra. Perhaps each magic god has their own sword/axe/bow of arcane order. Mystra/Corellon/That magic dwarf god/That drow magic god/etc (I know permission will require the DM to actually get back to you though, which is th eproblem)

what book is 'sword of arcane order' in? And what does it do?

[gbprime]

what book is 'sword of arcane order' in? And what does it do?

Champions of Valor. It lets you take your Paladin or Ranger spell slots and memorize Wizard spells in them. You use INT for these and a spellbook as normal. Instant gish and PrC qual goodness.

[LibraryOgre]

I can't think of a campaign setting where they directly interact (there is some indirect interaction in 2e Forgotten Realms; an attack on Tiamat was instigated by Bahamut, and the attackers were from Damara, in the northeast of Faerun).

In general, however, I think that Midnight (the NG version of Mystra, post Time of Troubles) would generally agree with Bahamut, if not necessarily get along with him, and vice versa. Mystra (the LN, pre-Time of Troubles) would be somewhat similar, though for different reasons (emphasizing his devotion to duty and rules, over her post ToT incarnation's preference for his kindness and opposition to evil).

[Coidzor]

Also, there's slightly more fluff supporting more varied paladin swords of the arcane order due to the whole Azuth thing as well. Might be able to argue a synchretic angle on that, but, eh.

As it stands, yeah... Custom Setting, you don't know enough about your DM to hazard a guess as to how he is about fluff requirements involving deities... Anybody's guess.

[sambo.]

I'm not entirely sure what settings Bahamut is considered a staple in...

iirc: all of 'em.

ever since first edition.

[hamishspence]

Bahamut does exist in Faerun as an Intermediate Deity. Mystra is a Greater Deity. But as far as I know, they've had little or no real interaction with each other.

I thought he counted as a lesser deity, as per the Manual of the Planes version?

Dragons of Faerun explains his (and Tiamat's) history in Faerun- them killing each other and being reduced to "celestial paragon" and "fiendish paragon" status as a result, then slowly working their way back up to demigod and finally lesser deity status.

[Optimystik]

I assume we're talking 3.5 since this is about Mystra.

I would definitely assume them to be friendly with each other, given that high-level metallic dragons are also sorcerers, and Mystra leans more towards good than evil. To cement the alliance I'd have to know how metallics regard the Shadow Weave.

I have a tangentially-related 4e question; is Bahamut a greater deity in Greyhawk and Lesser in Faerun? In the 4e PHB I noticed that he is found with the other A-Listers like Ioun, Pelor and Moradin. But in FRPG he is still Lesser status. Does he get downgraded for Faerun?

[hamishspence]

4E "standard setting" doesn't mention a distinction between "deity" and "greater deity"

4E Faerun does.

I'm not sure if there is a practical difference. Maybe Lolth from the MM3 could be compared to Bahamut- since in Faerun she's a Greater Deity whereas he's just a Deity.

If there is a significant power gap, then maybe the standard setting has a distinction between Deity and Greater Deity- it just isn't spelled out.

If there isn't, it could be that Draconomicon 2 Bahamut, and MM3 Lolth, are both just "Deities" as per the standard setting- whereas in Faerun, they would have slightly different stats, to indicate the status difference.

I can't remember if the 4E FR Campaign Setting refers to Bahamut, Umberlee, etc as Deities, or Lesser Deities. I know that "demigod" has been replaced with "exarch" though.

[Optimystik]

I can't remember if the 4E FR Campaign Setting refers to Bahamut, Umberlee, etc as Deities, or Lesser Deities. I know that "demigod" has been replaced with "exarch" though.

Bahamut is listed in the "Lesser Gods" section of FRPG, along with notables such as Garl Glittergold, Tymora, Ilmater and Gond.


Just below the greater gods in the divine pecking order are the lesser gods, sometimes simply called gods. Each of these entities is subservient to a greater god and resides with that greater god on a particular plane of existence.

Umberlee is nowhere to be found in the book - I would have said Talos finally got her, except he's not there either.

[hamishspence]

Thats strange- I recall her being the example given for "lesser gods" (or whatever it calls those gods that aren't either Greater or Exarch). It had a description of her cult just before the main list of all deities in Faerun.

Talos was, if I remember rightly, merged with Gruumsh- both were one-eyed Chaotic Evil Greater Gods of destruction.