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View Full Version : Good drop points to fit Incantatrix AND IoT7V:



Os1ris09
2010-06-20, 07:49 AM
Ok so without pre-reqs and all I was wondering what would be a good drop point for incantatrix to fit Iot7V into my build.

The following I have is thus:

Human Wizard 3/Master Specialist [Abjurer] 3/Incantatrix 7/Iot7V 7

Feats:
1-Spell focus [Abjuration]
H-Empower Spell
F2-Reach Spell
F1-Arcane Thesis [Ray of Enfeeblement]
BF-Improved Initiative
3-Split Ray
BF-Greater Spell Focus [Abjuration]
BF-Skill Focus [Spellcraft]
6-Repeat Spell
9-Smiting Spell
12-Quicken Spell
15-Chain Spell
18-

I banned evocation and enchantment. Also I don't recall off hand what the pre-reqs are for Incantatrix so please fix the feats if I missed anything. I know I got the pre-reqs for Master specialist AND Iot7V though. :smallbiggrin:

mikej
2010-06-20, 07:57 AM
Also I don't recall off hand what the pre-reqs are for Incantatrix so please fix the feats if I missed anything. I know I got the pre-reqs for Master specialist AND Iot7V though. :smallbiggrin:

It's Iron Will and one other Metamagic Feat.

The magical location, the Otyugh Hole [Complete Scoundrel] has Iron Will for some gp price.

Edit: If it was me. I'd go three levels of Incantatrix ( Metamagic Effect ) before any level of IoT7V. Finish off after IoT7V with more Incantatrix.

2xMachina
2010-06-20, 08:07 AM
Incant bans another school

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-20, 10:43 AM
Incant bans another school

Late game, you can generally stop caring about Necromancy, so it makes a nice option for the third school, if timed right.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-20, 10:58 AM
Incantatrix 3 is probably the most necessary level, for Metamagic Effect: Persistent Spell. Incantatrix 4 is a pretty nice spot to jump off, since you'll get another metamagic feat.

The extra prohibited school for Incantatrix isn't a huge deal, since you keep any spells you already knew from that school. Learn Enervation and Shivering Touch before you take that first level and ban Necromancy.

Os1ris09
2010-06-20, 12:40 PM
Do I get anything else after Incantatrix 4? I mean that are worthy class ability wise?

Also I thought once you banned a particular school you can no longer cast those spells ever again? At least thats my interpretation from the PH on specializing...

I will add Iron Will to the feat list for the GP amount. Also I don't understand 1 more metamagic feat. Where and before what level?

EDIT:

So now it looks like this

Human Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantatrix 3/Iot7V 7/Incantatrix 1/Archmage 3 (if I understand you guys correctly... if not replace archmage with more incantatrix)


Feats:
1-Spell focus [Abjuration]
H-Empower Spell
F2-Reach Spell
F1-Arcane Thesis [Ray of Enfeeblement]
Wiz 1-Improved Initiative
3-Split Ray
MS-Greater Spell Focus [Abjuration]
MS-Skill Focus [Spellcraft]
Otyughs Hole-Iron Will
6-Repeat Spell
9-Smiting Spell
12-Quicken Spell
15-Chain Spell
Incantatrix feat-
18-

Draz74
2010-06-20, 12:45 PM
Also I thought once you banned a particular school you can no longer cast those spells ever again? At least thats my interpretation from the PH on specializing...

Normally, yes. But Incantatrix's banned school is a specific exception. It still lets you cast spells from that school, it just doesn't let you learn new spells from that school.

So, once you already have Enervation, banning Necromancy isn't very painful. Unfortunately, it looks like your build enters Incantatrix one level too early to know Enervation. :smallfrown:

2xMachina
2010-06-20, 01:07 PM
It depends on which version...

3.0, yes you're right.

3.5 is another school banned.

5th ability is decent. Apply metamagic to wands.
Next stop is 7th for Instant metamagic (spontaneously apply metamagic without changing slots 1/day)
10th is great, but not enough levels...

Os1ris09
2010-06-20, 01:23 PM
I can always modify the build to get incantatrix later. so that way I can get enervation sooner. :smalltongue:

The build comes from the PGtF which I don't know if that would make a difference.

2xMachina
2010-06-20, 01:37 PM
PGtF is the 3.5 one. The online version is the 3.0 one.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-20, 02:53 PM
Correct me if I am wrong; but don't you need to ban another school only if you were not previously specialized in Abjuration? I AFB so I don't recall ofhand.

faceroll
2010-06-20, 02:54 PM
The extra prohibited school for Incantatrix isn't a huge deal, since you keep any spells you already knew from that school.

Where does it say that?

Os1ris09
2010-06-20, 07:16 PM
So I need to choose another school to ban if I use the book, which I probably have to since DM doesn't do online stuff very well, would probably be illusion?

I can't ban abjuration since I specialized in it and I can't ban necromancy because I like the Debuffs to much and Conjuration I can't because I need to control the field too when I am not hitting them with touch rays to make them really suck.....

2xMachina
2010-06-21, 02:06 AM
The online is actually an excerpt of the 3.0 Magic of Faerun's IOTSV.

RAW wise, it's outdated, and you MUST use the PGtF IOTSV. (It's stronger anyway).

Illusion is ok I guess. You'd miss on Mirror image and those though.

Draz74
2010-06-21, 02:46 AM
So I need to choose another school to ban if I use the book, which I probably have to since DM doesn't do online stuff very well, would probably be illusion?

I can't ban abjuration since I specialized in it and I can't ban necromancy because I like the Debuffs to much and Conjuration I can't because I need to control the field too when I am not hitting them with touch rays to make them really suck.....

You can't ban Divination, Abjuration, Enchantment, or Evocation. Banning Conjuration is always a bad idea. Banning Transmutation is pretty much always a bad idea too. Illusion is a strong school, but not as strong as those two. If you really aren't willing to give up Necromancy, yeah, Illusion's your best bet. Although Illusion vs. Transmutation is a close call in my book, depending how much Polymorph cheese you were planning on.

BobVosh
2010-06-21, 03:25 AM
The online is actually an excerpt of the 3.0 Magic of Faerun's IOTSVincantrix.

RAW wise, it's outdated, and you MUST use the PGtF IOTSVincantrix. (It's stronger anyway).

Illusion is ok I guess. You'd miss on Mirror image and those though.

*fixed

Why can't he ban enchantment and evocation?
Because he already has...duh.

2xMachina
2010-06-21, 03:37 AM
Oh damn. Sorry, I got confused.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-06-21, 03:42 AM
Ok, so keeping previously known spells from your new prohibited school is from the 3.0 version, guess I should brush up before posting next time. Despite this, don't forget that even a 1st level Wizard can learn 9th level spells, he just needs to find one written down somewhere and make the appropriate spellcraft check. There is no minimum wizard level required to learn a spell of a given level, you just wouldn't get to add it for free when you level up.

I'd still say necromancy is the easiest third school to ban, even though you'll lose enervation.

If you're going to get into the epic levels, epic incantatrix (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20020915a) is downright solid. In that case, you should probably get as many incantatrix levels pre-epic as possible, which would probably be eight to keep all seven IotSFV levels as well. With Precocious Apprentice or Heighten Spell + Metamagic School Focus you could go Wizard 2/ Master Specialist 3/ Incantatrix. You could Chaos Shuffle those out later if you want, or hire an NPC Psion to Psychic Reformation you, or retrain some feats as per PH2.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-21, 04:49 AM
Do I get anything else after Incantatrix 4? I mean that are worthy class ability wise?Metamagic Spell Trigger can be very nice in the right hands. Instant Metamagic is probably the most obviously powerful ability they get. The capstone dovetails nicely with everything you've received thus far. The rest is gravy. If you've persisted every personal-range buff spell imaginable and have Celerity prepared anyway, IotSV becomes overrated. Take all 10 levels of Incantatrix, and then go the rest of the way in Master Specialist, and maybe some Archmage if you're feeling saucy.

Os1ris09
2010-06-21, 08:06 PM
Metamagic Spell Trigger can be very nice in the right hands. Instant Metamagic is probably the most obviously powerful ability they get. The capstone dovetails nicely with everything you've received thus far. The rest is gravy. If you've persisted every personal-range buff spell imaginable and have Celerity prepared anyway, IotSV becomes overrated. Take all 10 levels of Incantatrix, and then go the rest of the way in Master Specialist, and maybe some Archmage if you're feeling saucy.

the whole point of Iot7V is so I dont get to cheesy. Pepper jack is fine but cheddar isn't. See what I mean?

Optimystik
2010-06-21, 08:11 PM
Just have the cleric get Enervation (via a domain, or Divine Magician) to cover your bases. Or slap Fell Drain onto your blasty spells, you've got metamagic muscle to spare.

Gralamin
2010-06-21, 08:12 PM
the whole point of Iot7V is so I dont get to cheesy. Pepper jack is fine but cheddar isn't. See what I mean?

...The point of the never die, ever, class is to reduce the amount of cheese :smallconfused: ?

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-06-21, 08:13 PM
the whole point of Iot7V is so I dont get to cheesy. Pepper jack is fine but cheddar isn't. See what I mean?I figure you've already opened Pandora's Box with Incantatrix 4.

Os1ris09
2010-06-22, 12:51 PM
Just have the cleric get Enervation (via a domain, or Divine Magician) to cover your bases. Or slap Fell Drain onto your blasty spells, you've got metamagic muscle to spare.

I may have them do that. Or request it. If anything I can just get use magic device and try to make the DC with a wand. Assuming I can apply metamagic to wands which I think Incantatrix lets me do... :smallconfused:


...The point of the never die, ever, class is to reduce the amount of cheese :smallconfused: ?

Because it is in Complete series DM doesn't have a problem with it at all. Its fine with him but incantatrix pushes him to his limits. No need to try and push him over a cliff when I have him where I want him. Letting me build a character I really want to try and see how it works in game. :smallbiggrin:


I figure you've already opened Pandora's Box with Incantatrix 4.

Exactly. Since I can just use incantatrix all the time with its awesomeness with metamagic Iot7V basically becomes mute if I persist all the personal buff spells in the game. BUT why should I push something that doesn't need to be. Like above to Gralamin.