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Koury
2010-06-20, 05:52 PM
I'll be DMing a game soon and have been talking with the players about what they'd like to be.

Player one wants to be sneaky. He's played NWN a lot and is fond of Rogues. He's gonna be trying out Swordsage. I think he'll be happy there. He's most likely gonna want to use a scythe, so I'll allow that to count as a Shadow Hand weapon.

Player two said he wants to TWF. He also said he wants to throw weapons. OK, Warblade into Bloodstorm Blade. I'll probably merge some of the TWF feats and make that a bit less feat intensive.

The third guy is the one I'm having trouble figuring out what to have him be. He told me "Assassin-y."

Conversation
koury: So, lets see here. You want an assassin type guy. Assassin in what sense? Like you can sneak around like a ninja? Use poisons? Sneak attack?
Him: Like assassins creed type.
koury: So purely martial then? No magical abilities?
Him: Dont know. Im only famaliar with the 4.0 assassin.
koury: Well, the reason I'm asking is the Assassin class isn't that good. -But- you don't need the Assassin class to be an assassin style guy so I'm trying to figure out what things you want to be able to do and find a match.
Him: Alright. Well, i know that i want a hard hitting martial class thats acrobatic and stealthly, but not really a rouge.

So, any ideas? The best I can think of is Factotum.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-06-20, 06:01 PM
Well... Factotum seems the best option if he doesn't want to go rouge.... On the other hand I am sure I have seen here or in D&Dwiki an assassin homebrew directly inspired by Assasssin's Creed

Greenish
2010-06-20, 06:05 PM
Assassin PrC is actually quite decent.

But yeah, factotum is not a bad as a martial class, and certainly has stealthy and acrobatic. Remember to tell him about Iaijutsu Focus, and maybe refluff Gnomish Quickblade as the wristblade thingy from AC.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-20, 06:06 PM
A second swordsage would work.

Greenish
2010-06-20, 06:07 PM
Hmm, factotum3/warbladeX with Able Learner isn't bad either.

Zovc
2010-06-20, 06:08 PM
Perhaps 'Player 1' should take some levels of Rogue before Swordsage?

Player 2 might enjoy one or two levels somewhere to help him get all the feats needed to do what he wants to.

Factotum + Gnomish Quickrazor might just be the thing for Player 3.

Koury
2010-06-20, 06:22 PM
Hmm, what would the Swordsage gain from dipping Rogue? He's already gonna be very Rogue-ish, with his Shadow Hand focus. I am open to possible dip suggestions to pass on to him, however.

The Bloodstorm Blade I may have progress War 1/Fgt 2/Barb 1/War 1/BSB X. I think he'll like Pounce very much.

And Quickblade Factotum with Iaijutsu Focus was what I was thinking also. He can pick up FoI a few times and be able to do a lot of nifty things. Warblade dip is a good idea, we'll see how he's feeling about his guy as the game goes on.

These guys are all new-ish, so I'm mostly worried about keeping them all on par with each other.

Greenish
2010-06-20, 06:28 PM
The Bloodstorm Blade I may have progress War 1/Fgt 2/Barb 1/War 1/BSB X.Uneven non-initiator dips?

Fighter is just boring bore. I suggest you dip 2 levels of Monk with any combat style he likes (Combat Expertise + Imp. Trip from Passive Way set up Knock-Down nicely) since that's three feats, good saves and evasion. Then a level of barb for pounce, and a level of cleric for Travel Devotion (and another devotion/domain power).


Oh, and do consolidate the TWF feats.

PId6
2010-06-20, 06:31 PM
I'd suggest something like Daring Outlaw with Able Learner. The Assassin's Creed assassin is mostly a martial character, but does sneak around/disguise himself when necessary. Daring Outlaw would capture most of that, while Able Learner provides the skills he'd want.

Koury
2010-06-20, 06:34 PM
Uneven non-initiator dips? *shrug* I'm the DM in this particular case, so I can just say you round up. :smallsmile:


Fighter is just boring bore. I suggest you dip 2 levels of Monk with any combat style he likes (Combat Expertise + Imp. Trip from Passive Way set up Knock-Down nicely) since that's three feats, good saves and evasion. Then a level of barb for pounce, and a level of cleric for Travel Devotion (and another devotion/domain power). Thing is, he's the newest of the three, and they're all very new. I'm was kinda worried dipping just Fgt and Barb would make him feel like he has too many options.

That being said, thats a pretty good build (and throwing weapons and tripping with them sounds awesome). I'll run through all these options with him and see what he wants to do.



Oh, and do consolidate the TWF feats. Yeah, when he said TWF, thats the first thing I thought of doing.

Greenish
2010-06-20, 06:36 PM
I'm was kinda worried dipping just Fgt and Barb would make him feel like he has too many options.Fighter and barbarian options… he can hit things, or, uhm, hit things? :smalltongue:

Koury
2010-06-20, 06:45 PM
Fighter and barbarian options… he can hit things, or, uhm, hit things? :smalltongue:

I know, but yeah, new. Between learning how to use Power Attack effectivly, knowing if and when to Trip or Charge, learning about moving in position for flanks, using his 1/day rage and picking through his maneuvers...

Like I said, just something I was taking into consideration. :smallsmile:

Koury
2010-06-22, 03:26 AM
OK, now I'm looking for some help with feats for my players.

The 1st player is going Rog1/Fgt1/Rog2/Swordsage X.

He's a Jermlaine (+6 Dex/Wis, -6 Str/Cha, -2 Int/Con; Tiny), refluffed as a really small human. Went with scythe, like I thought he would. Plans on Tumbling to avoid most AoOs provoked from entering opponents squares (and with his +12 bonus at level 1, that seems viable enough).

He has no idea what to do for feats, however, and I'm at a loss for what to tell him. He'll pick up Shadow Blade, eventually, for sure but has a bunch of feats (3) he doesn't know what to do with.

(Since he will be proficent with the scythe at level 2, I'm letting that slide)

Greenish
2010-06-22, 07:01 AM
OK, now I'm looking for some help with feats for my players.

The 1st player is going Rog1/Fgt1/Rog2/Swordsage X.

He's a Jermlaine (+6 Dex/Wis, -6 Str/Cha, -2 Int/Con; Tiny), refluffed as a really small human. Went with scythe, like I thought he would. Plans on Tumbling to avoid most AoOs provoked from entering opponents squares (and with his +12 bonus at level 1, that seems viable enough).

He has no idea what to do for feats, however, and I'm at a loss for what to tell him. He'll pick up Shadow Blade, eventually, for sure but has a bunch of feats (3) he doesn't know what to do with.

(Since he will be proficent with the scythe at level 2, I'm letting that slide)Craven, Darkstalker. Adaptive Style for swordsage. If he takes unarmed swordsage, he gets IUS for free and can pick Snap Kick.

Education & Knowledge Devotion might be in order. Having ranks in most knowledges is a good excuse to dump relevant information on him.

Curmudgeon
2010-06-22, 07:21 AM
Hmm, what would the Swordsage gain from dipping Rogue? He's already gonna be very Rogue-ish, with his Shadow Hand focus. I am open to possible dip suggestions to pass on to him, however.
He'd gain these things:

More sneak attack than the 2d6 you'll get from Assassin's Stance
Trapfinding
Evasion a whole lot sooner
Uncanny dodge
Trap sense, which you can swap for Penetrating Strike, to do ˝ normal sneak dice against sneak-immune enemies you flank

Koury
2010-06-22, 01:47 PM
Thanks for the help so far. I'm allowing him to Finesse his scythe. I also decided that the Evasion from SS turns his Evasion from Rogue into Improved Evasion.

Still some open feats, however:

Level Plan
--------------

Rogue - Sneak Attack 1d6; Trapfinding; Craven; Darkstalker; [Feat]
Fighter - Weapon Finesse
Rogue - Evasion; [Feat]
Rogue - Sneak Attack 2d6; Penetrating Strike
Swordsage - Quick To Act +1; Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus); 6 Maneuvers (Level 2); 1 Stance
Swordsage - Wisdom AC Bonus; Shadow Blade; 1 Maneuver; 1 Stance
Swordsage - 1 Maneuver (Level 3)
Swordsage - Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike); 1 Maneuver; Maneuver Swap
Swordsage - Quick To Act +2; Adaptive Style; 1 Maneuver (Level 4); 1 Stance
Swordsage - 1 Maneuver; Maneuver Swap
Swordsage - Sense Magic; 1 Maneuver (Level 5)
Swordsage - Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance); Extra Maneuver Readied; 1 Maneuver; Maneuver Swap
Swordsage - Improved Evasion; 1 Maneuver (Level 6); 1 Stance
Swordsage - Quick To Act +3; 1 Maneuver; Maneuver Swap
Swordsage - [Feat]; 1 Maneuver (Level 7)
Swordsage - Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike); 1 Maneuver; Maneuver Swap
Swordsage - 1 Maneuver (Level 8)
Swordsage - [Feat]; 1 Maneuver; 1 Stance; Maneuver Swap
Swordsage - Quick To Act +4; 1 Maneuver (Level 9)
Swordsage - Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance); 1 Maneuver; Maneuver Swap

PId6
2010-06-22, 02:48 PM
Why Fighter as opposed to Swashbuckler? You get 2 more skill points from Swashbuckler, and a better list. Alternatively, use the Hit and Run Fighter ACF from DotU.

Feats: TWF line, Staggering Strike (CAdv), Knowledge Devotion (CC), Underfoot Combat (RotW), Confound the Big Folk (RotW).

Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk seem especially fitting in this case.

Jorda75
2010-06-22, 03:13 PM
Barb/fighter/frenzy = killing machine. It's a terribly simple build that offers lots of power and helps explain rules like PA and rage.

Koury
2010-06-23, 05:10 AM
The Swordsage player is asking to take Extra Readied Maneuver more then once (up to three times, to be specific).

Anything I should worry about or know before I cross out that "Can only be taken once" line?

PId6
2010-06-23, 09:59 AM
Seems fine. He's spending a valued feat slot for it; I doubt it would be overpowered or something.