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bartman
2010-06-20, 11:46 PM
What level 0 spells do you like to use, whether in or out of combat, around the 10th level. It is a pathfinder game, if that changes anything. I am considering taking Minor Magic as a rogue talent, just don't know a good spell to use it with.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-20, 11:48 PM
For Unseen Seers, I love using acid splash for 1d3+character level+absurd d6s of sneak attack.

Detect Magic and Read Magic are generally useful unless someone else in the party has them at-will. Prestidigitation always has its uses.

arguskos
2010-06-20, 11:55 PM
Given that I always play with the "Cantrips/Orisons are free" rules and make up a lot of my own cantrips (the Multicast cantrip is my favorite), my vote probably isn't super useful.

However, from the default ones, my favorite is Amananuesis. Need to copy something? Done! :smallbiggrin:

Lhurgyof
2010-06-21, 12:11 AM
Prestidigitation, it can do a lot.

dextercorvia
2010-06-21, 12:12 AM
I like Message a lot.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-21, 12:15 AM
I like meteor swarm, but it's really, really weak.

Oh, wait. That's a 6th 7th 9th level spell.

LibraryOgre
2010-06-21, 12:30 AM
I like Message a lot.

Message becomes awesome in a PF "free cantrips" situation. Message everybody... you are now a communications hub, able to keep everyone connected at very little effort.

gallagher
2010-06-21, 01:33 AM
For Unseen Seers, I love using acid splash for 1d3+character level+absurd d6s of sneak attack.

Detect Magic and Read Magic are generally useful unless someone else in the party has them at-will. Prestidigitation always has its uses.wait wait wait...

+character level to damage??? they can do that?

Private-Prinny
2010-06-21, 01:35 AM
wait wait wait...

+character level to damage??? they can do that?

I'm just in the habit of assuming that everything that uses Sneak Attack takes Craven as part of the build.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-21, 01:38 AM
I'm just in the habit of assuming that everything that uses Sneak Attack takes Craven as part of the build.

It's like power attack for rogues! If only...

Private-Prinny
2010-06-21, 01:49 AM
I like Dancing Lights. As Redcloak has shown us, they can be great emergency flares. You can also make four of them. I wonder what you could use that for... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwoPlusTortureMakesFive)

mrcarter11
2010-06-21, 01:52 AM
Ok, I don't get to play to much with rogues.. But can someone explain this better to me.. I am lost about the craven(what is this) and the other rogue thing that was mentioned about it being apart of every build..

Milskidasith
2010-06-21, 01:52 AM
Prestidigitation.

It only cleans your clothes!

It only makes your food taste better!

It only lets you preform parlor tricks and cool entrances (make your cape billow! Give yourself a glowing power aura while you scream! Change your hair color to blonde! Give twenty five minute speeches as a free action!)

It only lets you be incredibly lazy!

It only does everything!

It's like the PS3, but free! And with better exclusives! :P

Private-Prinny
2010-06-21, 01:56 AM
Ok, I don't get to play to much with rogues.. But can someone explain this better to me.. I am lost about the craven(what is this) and the other rogue thing that was mentioned about it being apart of every build..

Craven is a feat from Champions of Ruin, if I'm not mistaken. It adds your ECL to sneak attack damage, as well as a couple of other things involving fear effects that are escaping me at the moment.

mrcarter11
2010-06-21, 01:58 AM
Never even heard of that book.. And I have a lot of books..

Milskidasith
2010-06-21, 02:01 AM
Craven is a feat from Champions of Ruin, if I'm not mistaken. It adds your ECL to sneak attack damage, as well as a couple of other thing involving fear effects that are escaping me at the moment.

I think you get a -2 to saves against fear effects.

Stompy
2010-06-21, 02:04 AM
I think you get a -2 to saves against fear effects.

yup. See also, one of the feat requirements is "cannot be immune to fear". That gets a little worrysome with things like heroes feast and mind blank.

...and I also love presidigitation!

Bayar
2010-06-21, 02:19 AM
Launch bolt with Escrew materials for Gargantuan bolts everywhere.

Private-Prinny
2010-06-21, 02:22 AM
Launch bolt with Escrew materials for Gargantuan bolts everywhere.

Eschew Material Components doesn't work on components with a listed price, even one as low as 1 sp. There's still the whole "unspecified bolt size" thing going for it though.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-21, 02:25 AM
Eschew Material Components doesn't work on components with a listed price, even one as low as 1 sp. There's still the whole "unspecified bolt size" thing going for it though.

I thought Eschew Materials worked on everything as long as the cost was 1 GP or less? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#eschewMaterials)

Wonton
2010-06-21, 02:26 AM
Prestidigitation gets waaay too much love on forums. Most of the uses I've seen of it are things I wouldn't allow as a DM ("This jail cell's hinges are a Fine object, right?" *disappear*). It's still handy, if only because a real Wizard always has to project an air of "I am above physical tasks".

I second Message. It's one creature/caster level, Medium range, and 10 min/level duration. In almost every way, it's just as good as Telepathic Bond. Sure, the second is UNLIMITED RANGE, but if you're outside of Medium range of your teammates, you're probably breaking rule #1 of D&D - Don't Split the Party.

My Wizard always prepares Detect Poison, cause he's paranoid.

If we're actually looking for GOOD level 0 spells, Caltrops is a pretty good BC option until level 3-5 or so (depends on what your DM likes to use).

Private-Prinny
2010-06-21, 02:27 AM
I thought Eschew Materials worked on everything as long as the cost was 1 GP or less? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#eschewMaterials)

I stand corrected. I thought it was just a feat to eliminate those pesky spell component pouches.

Eurus
2010-06-21, 03:25 AM
I like meteor swarm, but it's really, really weak.

Oh, wait. That's a 6th 7th 9th level spell.

Well it would be fairly overpowered (compared to other blasting spells, I mean) as a 6th level spell, given the weirdly fixed rather than scaling damage. :smalltongue: The fact that it lets you try a touch attack to deny someone their reflex save, but still functions even on a miss, is also a small point in its favor, especially if you use any one of many ways to get around the whole "fire resistance" problem.

...Um. Cantrips. Yes. I like create water, personally, but that's technically an orison... ghost sound can be fun, though. And don't knock open/close until you've tried it. Easier than teaching celestial trapmonkeys to open doors.

Temotei
2010-06-21, 03:46 AM
Prestidigitation, message, and ghost sound would be my favorites...in that order.

Hendel
2010-06-21, 03:52 AM
As a rogue, Acid Splash or Ray of Frost for an unlimited use means of sneak attack as mentioned earlier.

Sliver
2010-06-21, 04:17 AM
Well it would be fairly overpowered (compared to other blasting spells, I mean) as a 6th level spell, given the weirdly fixed rather than scaling damage. :smalltongue: The fact that it lets you try a touch attack to deny someone their reflex save, but still functions even on a miss, is also a small point in its favor, especially if you use any one of many ways to get around the whole "fire resistance" problem.

Don't forget you can sneak attack with it (well, you will get SA dice with only one of them, as far as I know, but still... SA with a meteor swarm looks better than SA with a boulder...)

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-21, 07:30 AM
Launch Bolt. Never carry a crossbow again.

Add Metamagic, Spell Thesis, and a few enchanted bolts and this can turn your low level slots into your most deadly.

balistafreak
2010-06-21, 07:52 AM
While not useful if you can only cast cantrips alone, Sonic Snap has its implications.

Why?

The metamagic Fell Drain.

Say hello to guaranteed negative levels with 2nd level spells. Your action economy will suck... but this is one way to whittle down a boss. :smallwink:

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-21, 07:55 AM
Not really, web something nasty down, FD sonic snap it while hiding behind a shield, and let the party deal with everything else

Akal Saris
2010-06-21, 12:52 PM
For core, Prestigitation.

For non-core, however, I love Launch Object from Spell Compendium. Useful for tossing tanglefoot bags or vials of inhaled poison from 110-300 feet away.

EvilJoe15
2010-06-21, 01:13 PM
I too use PF cantrips.

My favorites have got to be Detect Magic(I cast it every other round out of combat.), Caltrops(Battlefield Control at level 1), Prestidigitation, and Electric Jolt(Nothing says Fear Me! like lightning, even if it's only 1d3).

arguskos
2010-06-21, 01:16 PM
I too use PF cantrips.

My favorites have got to be Detect Magic(I cast it every other round out of combat.), Caltrops(Battlefield Control at level 1), Prestidigitation, and Electric Jolt(Nothing says Fear Me! like lightning, even if it's only 1d3).
Ask your DM to let you research the fearsome Multicast cantrip: you prepare it, and three other cantrips. Each time you cast Multicast, it replicates two other cantrips you have prepped that aren't itself.

The idea is that you can combine cantrip effects to make them worth your time (2d3 damage! Caltrops+1d3 damage! Prestidigtation+Caltrops for epic lulz! Etc).

EvilJoe15
2010-06-21, 01:17 PM
That sounds like the Mage's Lucubration trick, I love it.

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-21, 01:17 PM
Hmm... I wonder how far a caster can get using only Cantrips, Orisons, Metamagic and precision damage. :smallconfused:

I know some are good for sneak attack, and I've seen first hand what a stacked Launch Bolt can do at high levels, but what else can we pull off?

arguskos
2010-06-21, 01:21 PM
Let's see... Wizard into Unseen Seer would be the logical build. Maybe get Spellwarp Sniper in there (don't recall precisely if it would be useful), add Craven, you could probably do alright.

balistafreak
2010-06-21, 01:27 PM
Hmm... I wonder how far a caster can get using only Cantrips, Orisons, Metamagic -

Forget precision. Under the current guidelines... Twinned (Repeating?) Fell Draining Sonic Snap. 4 negative levels please?

(Yeah, at that rate of metamagic, I think a plain old Enervate might be faster. :smalltongue:)

arguskos
2010-06-21, 01:28 PM
Forget precision. Under the current guidelines... Twinned (Repeating?) Fell Draining Sonic Snap. 4 negative levels please?

(Yeah, at that rate of metamagic, I think a plain old Enervate might be faster. :smalltongue:)
Butbutbut... it also does sonic damage! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Also, Sonic Snap is good against enemy casters, since Deafened really shuts down casters pretty hard.

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-21, 01:41 PM
Let's see... Wizard into Unseen Seer would be the logical build. Maybe get Spellwarp Sniper in there (don't recall precisely if it would be useful), add Craven, you could probably do alright.

Yeah. I'm tempted to try this. Maybe no Only using cantrips. the party has its needs too, but mostly cantrips. Maybe on a sorc so I don't end up falling back to my spell book to bail myself out. So I'd HAVE to do it mostly with Cantrips.

Oh! A UA Generic Spellcaster would be perfect for this! Could pick from both Cantrips and Orisons, AND pick up some sneak attack without dipping.

I'd at least need to get the following Feats as fast as I could:
-Reach
-Chain
-Fell Drain
-Arcane Thesis: Launch Bolt: Reach+ Chained LB is 7 bolts at 6th level for a 3rd level spell. Easy Metamagic turns it into a 2nd level spell. Easy to get lower.
-Precise Shot (for Spiltting Bolts)
-Arcane Desciple:War (Would need Divine Might to help hit with the bolts)
-Easy Metamagic-Chain Spell

A strongheart halfling with 2 flaws gets us to 6 feats at level 6 as a sorc, 8 as a UA Generic Caster. UAGC won't need Arcane Deciple but can take Sneak Attack as a feat and have 1 feat left over for either better SA or to meet a PrC requirement.



Also: Enervate may be faster, but FD sonic snap will mess with casters and I'm sure we can drop the cost below what Enervate costs. It also has no pesky save, correct?

Susano-wo
2010-06-21, 03:13 PM
I have to second message as a very useful 0th level, *especially* with the enhancements pathfinder added. Also, its verbal only, so you can cast it in armor without meta-magicing it. Though I guess that's irrelevant for spell-likes. Also, prestidigitation is fun. ^ ^