PDA

View Full Version : My Soul is Iron, but shall I Master the Forge? [3.5]



Zaq
2010-06-21, 12:35 AM
So my character is currently staring death in the faces (I genuinely don't think any of us are going to get out of this alive), so I'm making a backup. I've decided to play an Incarnate; I've got a fun backstory prepared and everything, so I think it should be a good time. I'm going to be a dwarven Law Incarnate, and we're currently level 15. This is, coincidentally, exactly how many levels it would take to get all ten levels of Ironsoul Forgemaster. ISFM has always interested me, but I'm having a hard time saying whether I should absolutely take it or not, since there's honestly nothing wrong with Incarnate 15. A quick list, as I see it:

Pros of ISFM compared to straight Incarnate:
-The Shield and Weapon Bonds are truly sexy. Energy resistance against nearly everything and dazing enemies on every hit? Yes please!
-The armor bond is less sexy, but it's not bad by any stretch.
-Better BAB and (marginally) better skill list than a straight Incarnate.
-Heart bind one level early.
-Our GM is pretty liberal with the magic-marts, but Craft Magic Arms and Armor still might be useful.

Cons of ISFM compared to straight Incarnate:
-No Brow or Throat binds.
-No Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +2. The ability to overfill your soulmelds is kind of big.
-One lost meldshaper level, which basically means less essentia. Oh, and I'd be behind one level on getting additional melds and binds per day, but that's not really gamebreaking. Every essentia is precious, though.
-Incarnum Radiance would be down to 1/day. Since Lawful Incarnum Radiance is actually really good, this hurts.
-Nowhere to go next level. The only real option is more Incarnate, but that feels... lacking, somehow.

So, I'm really torn. It's flavorful, but I can get most of the flavor I'm looking for with or without it. It's got fun abilities, but some pretty big drawbacks. (In other words, it's balanced! Gasp!) Does anyone have any comments, pro or con? Any thoughts would be welcomed.

Glimbur
2010-06-21, 12:46 AM
Interesting idea: there are weapon and armor abilities that scale as you put essentia into the item. Co-incidentally, you have class features that scale as you put essentia in to the item. Check with your DM to see if you can double-dip.

The bigger issue is not knowing what to do next... honestly, I might advise starting as a Crusader or something as you'll never get the rest of the binds pre-epic and ToB is a more friendly sub system to enter late.

Zaq
2010-06-21, 07:53 PM
Interesting idea: there are weapon and armor abilities that scale as you put essentia into the item. Co-incidentally, you have class features that scale as you put essentia in to the item. Check with your DM to see if you can double-dip.

The bigger issue is not knowing what to do next... honestly, I might advise starting as a Crusader or something as you'll never get the rest of the binds pre-epic and ToB is a more friendly sub system to enter late.

I was thinking of the Soulbound enchantment as well. My DM's stated that if I go ISFM, I can make a Craft check when I shape my melds in order to get Incarnate Weapon to qualify as a "weapon I made" for Weapon Bond, which is pretty sweet. Double-dipping that AND a Soulbound Weapon would be... well, damn near overpowered, if we weren't 15th level and thus basically demigods.

I'm also considering using a dwarven buckler-axe (again assuming I go ISFM) to get the Shield Bond and Weapon Bond benefits at the same time. Silly weapons are always fun.

Honestly though, right now I'm leaning towards going pure Incarnate, just because of the "well, now what?" issue I'd have by going ISFM. I'd still like some more input, though.

Person_Man
2010-06-22, 09:05 AM
It depends on two important questions: Do you want to use Vitality Belt and Necrocarnum Circle (the two soulmelds that depend most on meldshaper level), and when you take the Open Whatever Chakra feat, does your DM rule that you gain another Chakra bind use per day, or does he rule that the slot is just opened and you must use a pre-existing chakra bind to fill it?

If the former is true, then definitely go Incarnate 3/Totemist 2/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10. This will give you:

9 soulmelds (6 Incarnate and 3 Totemist, or 6 Totemist and 3 Incarnate if you choose to progress your Totemist levels).
4 essentia capacity
5 essentia capacity for soulmelds bound to Totem Chakra
4 chakra binds
Crown, Totem, Arms, Shoulders, Waist, and Heart chakra open
ISFM special abilities (with the most important being the Save or Daze effect on every melee attack you make with your bound weapon).
Then take Open Least Chakra twice (feet and hands) and Open Lesser Chakra (brow). This will bump you up to a total of 7 (!) chakra binds per day.

Avoid soulmelds that depend on meldshaper level, and you're set. You'll have a very potent mix of offense, defense, and mobility. From there, I would take a level of Necrocarnate for their soul harvesting ability, which adds bonus essentia for 24 hours every time you eat the soul of the recently dead. It has amazing synergy with the Heart of Incarnum feat (bonus hit points equal to essentia pool). The adaptation section at the end of the PrC description gives you a non-Evil option, if you're committed to being Lawful.


If you do want to use Vitality Belt and Necrocarnum Circle (which are two of the strongest soulmelds in the book) and your DM rules that taking the Open Chakra feats simply opens the soulmeld without granting additional chakra binds (which is what Customer Service ruled, for what little it's worth) then go strait Incarnate 15. You'll have stronger defenses and battlefield control, but will lack the uber Soulbound Weapon.

Prime32
2010-06-22, 09:11 AM
-Nowhere to go next level. The only real option is more Incarnate, but that feels... lacking, somehow.There's another PrC which grants you a virtual caster level for crafting items. Stack the two and you can start crafting epic stuff.