Kill Bill: Swords on Airline (?) [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

TheMinxTail

2010-06-21, 08:57 AM

So I watched Kill Bill Volume 1 (haven't watched 2 yet, so no spoilers please), and I saw taht in one scene, the main character was in a flight from one part of Japan to teh other, her sword at her side as she sat. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if that's actually legal? I mean, I know for a fact taht i I were to get on a flight to America, there's no way in hell I'd be allowed to carry a perfectly functional sword - at my side no less; hell, I once bought a toy gun from Disneyland Paris and they didn't let me take it back on teh flight home with me. Oh, while we're on the topic of Kill Bill, I'll just say taht movie is awesome. They may not have quite the best fight scenes of all time (the very best in my mind still goes to Oldboy), but goddamn they're cool. And the animation of the anime section was really intense and awesome - though I couldn't help myself laughing whenever someone woudl projectile bleed across a room from a single stab wound. Good escapist fun, really.

As for the thing with a sword on a plane (sounds like a variant of that one movie I didn't see), I'm something of an author was thinking of writing a short story. I'll let you guys know if I write it, once I've fact-checked.

dehro

2010-06-21, 09:12 AM

yes, I remember that. hilarious, and no, you can't.

the toy gun thing was already in place when I used to travel as an unaccompanied minor (UM)..bach in the late 80's... you weren't allowed even then. I had to leave mine behind.
(gosh...I'd all but forgotten about it)

TheMinxTail

2010-06-21, 09:14 AM

yes, I remember that. hilarious, and no, you can't.

the toy gun thing was already in place when I used to travel as an unaccompanied minor UM..bach in the late 80's... you weren't allowed even then. I had to leave mine behind.
(gosh...I'd all but forgotten about it)

Yeah, I was just watching the movie with some friends, and one of them suggested (after a few drinks) that the reason that she was allowed the sword is that it was from one place in Japan to another. My response was that Kill Bill isn't set in the goddam feudal period where people carried weapons willy nilly, but he maintained the position.

SolkaTruesilver

2010-06-21, 09:20 AM

Wasn't there many people around her that had swords by their side?

Maybe she was travelling in Samurai Cast Class?

dehro

2010-06-21, 09:20 AM

your friend had had one too many :smallbiggrin:
this interview, specifically page 2, kinda gives the definitive answer to the question (http://japattack.com/japattack/film/tarantino.html)

comicshorse

2010-06-21, 09:20 AM

kamikasei

2010-06-21, 09:22 AM

As mentioned, others had swords with them too.

It was a plane in/to Japan. What, they were going to take people's swords away? You try taking a sword from a ninja master if she doesn't want you to!

SolkaTruesilver

2010-06-21, 09:26 AM

It was a plane in/to Japan. What, they were going to take people's swords away? You try taking a sword from a ninja master if she doesn't want you to!

:smallfurious:

Ninja?

:smallfurious:

Ninja were spies/assassin specialised in the art of never being noticed. They used small knives and poison.

Samurai were the equivalent of our medieval knights and soldiers. A social cast, and their main sword was the Samurai.

Please learn the difference.

TheMinxTail

2010-06-21, 09:38 AM

Tarantino was quoted as saying the film occured 'on planet cinema' so presumably there its all right to carry a sword on the plane ( and nobody bothers investigating a crime as long as only bad guys get killed and chinese martial arts masters know ways to make your heart explode with just a few touches)

*With great, feigned disbelief*

What? You mean the chinese heart-explodey technique is fictatious? Now how will we combat the Mecha Zombie Vampire Alien Monkey Barack Obama if we can't make the presiden't heart explode before the rest of his flesh turns? We're doomed! DOOMED!

Aw man, **** the katanas, Were-Supervillain Obama is where my next short story's at. Though, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

As for the planet cinema part, that does make sense of a good few scenes in that movie. Like how half the action sequences go.

Edit: Huh, we have auto-censor in this forum? Lame...

rakkoon

2010-06-21, 09:41 AM

Eldan

2010-06-21, 09:42 AM

your friend had had one too many :smallbiggrin:
this interview, specifically page 2, kinda gives the definitive answer to the question (http://japattack.com/japattack/film/tarantino.html)

So... many... references...
And mostly to movies I haven't even heard of. Gaah.

TheMinxTail

2010-06-21, 09:44 AM

Mmm, so the Ninja's protecting the emperor only had spoons to defend him? Poor boys :smallsmile:
We can argue about the word ninja but many ninja schools contain sword techniques, usually designed against other popular schools.
Anywho

Kill Bill is a movie, in a universe where everyone can have a samurai sword in their luggage. Is there a RPG about this world yet?

Oh your God (lol Bender the Robot), taht would be awesome. I guess you could use a modified d20 Modern, but it seems like with the huge fight scenes that isn't particularly suiting. There's got to be something out there. Perhaps we should consult the Roleplaying forums.

kamikasei

2010-06-21, 09:48 AM

Ninja were spies/assassin specialised in the art of never being noticed. They used small knives and poison.

Sure, which means a ninja carrying around a sword openly must be even more badass and probably capable of slicing clean through a tank!

Samurai were the equivalent of our medieval knights and soldiers. A social cast, and their main sword was the Samurai.

Whoa, recursion FTW. Do the Samurai being wielded by other Samurai themselves wield their own Samurai in turn?

SolkaTruesilver

2010-06-21, 09:54 AM

Sure, which means a ninja carrying around a sword openly must be even more badass and probably capable of slicing clean through a tank!

Whoa, recursion FTW. Do the Samurai being wielded by other Samurai themselves wield their own Samurai in turn?

Lapsus recursion, nothing more. I meant "Katana" (albeit, I always thought that "Katana" meant the blade rather than the whole sword itself).

Also, please note that being a Ninja was not related to being good in fight. Again, a Ninja was a Spy/Assassin, not a Shaolin Monk or a great Swordmaster.

In theory, in a stand-up swordfight of Ninja Vs Samurai, I'd put my money on Samurai. Their whole purpose was to be as deadly as possible with swords, as to Ninja, deception and infiltration was their purpose, not combat.

And knowing martial arts wasn't even part of the Ninja curriculum. The Ninja = Martial artist was kinda imposed on us with the TMNT and "3 Ninja" movies.

Rogue 7

2010-06-21, 09:56 AM

your friend had had one too many :smallbiggrin:
this interview, specifically page 2, kinda gives the definitive answer to the question (http://japattack.com/japattack/film/tarantino.html)

Not knowing anything else about it, a site named "Jap Attack" strikes me as being in very poor taste, putting it mildly.

dehro

2010-06-21, 09:57 AM

guys..seriously..the ninja vs samurai is as likely to never end as is the ninja vs pirate debate...
but what has it got to do with kill bill?

SolkaTruesilver

2010-06-21, 10:03 AM

guys..seriously..the ninja vs samurai is as likely to never end as is the ninja vs pirate debate...
but what has it got to do with kill bill?

Kill Bill was all about Samurai, nothing about Ninja.

They speak of Samurai honor, fight like Samurai, and use Samurai weapons.

I'd rather ask a Ninja to give me his weapon on an airplane than a Samurai, as one is restricted by social convention not to give me his weapon (and kill me for asking) while the other one acts outside of the social convention of his society (and will simply keep a poisoned needle on him after giving me his sword).

Knaight

2010-06-21, 10:05 AM

Ninja were spies/assassin specialised in the art of never being noticed. They used small knives and poison.

Um, what? Ninja's were spies/assassins yes, but they used way, way more than small knives and poison. It was more of a "whatever they had access to at the time that would work best" situation really, and small knives aren't even that major a part of that. Poison is, yes, but the knife situation has been dramatically over stated.

And really, its the arts of never being noticed, though that is a pretty tiny quibble. There isn't a huge amount of overlap in the skill sets of not being seen and the skill sets of looking like someone else (some insignificant peasant or something usually.)

kamikasei

2010-06-21, 10:11 AM

Also, please note that being a Ninja was not related to being good in fight. Again, a Ninja was a Spy/Assassin, not a Shaolin Monk or a great Swordmaster.

Pfft, yeah, like I'm going to listen to you over realultimatepower.net. Somehow I doubt that your purpose is to flip out and kill people, so what do you know?

The point is that Japanese airlines know better than to tell their passengers they can't bring their swords with them because if they tried they'd find they had no passengers, quickly followed by having no planes and then having no crew (in that order, the ninja would slice through the planes with their mighty katana-no-ken-tachi to get to the crew) and then the airline exects would lose their heads to the unmatched samurai-tou.

Optimystik

2010-06-21, 10:19 AM

comicshorse

2010-06-21, 10:37 AM

I read an interview hwere Tarantino said he was considering that but that's all I heard of it

Optimystik

2010-06-21, 10:48 AM

Kill Bride - Summer 2012?

I'd watch it.

(Or Kill Beatrix I suppose, but that's not quite as pithy.)

Innis Cabal

2010-06-21, 10:55 AM

:smallfurious:

Ninja?

:smallfurious:

Ninja were spies/assassin specialised in the art of never being noticed. They used small knives and poison.

Samurai were the equivalent of our medieval knights and soldiers. A social cast, and their main sword was the Samurai.

Please learn the difference.

It's a good thing that there wasn't always a difference, since Samurai were a social class (And thus invalidates Kiddo being one in the real sense) and could easily be trained in ninjutsu and thus be ninja. And that they did in fact use swords for various purposes such as the shikomizue and that Ninjutsu has a required form of training known as Kenjutsu (Sword Techniques). Otherwise you'd just appear rude.

It'd also be very embarassing if one pointed out that Samurai were as much horse mounted archers (where they got their start) and stressed the use of such tactics until they were dissolved, even stressing archery over gun powder during the Sengoku period. Or that they really had no connection with the western Knight outside of popularized fiction created long after their dissolution (much like their code of honor).

SolkaTruesilver

2010-06-21, 11:03 AM

Otherwise you'd just appear rude.

Awww.. don't be overly nice to me :smallredface:

Elhann

2010-06-21, 11:06 AM

Kill Bill had as much to do with actual Samurai as it did with actual Ninja. It's all Rule of Cool and needs no serious debate.

I heard a rumor that Copperhead's (Vivica A. Fox's) daughter would be the protagonist of the 3rd movie, seeking revenge on The Bride for killing her mother. Confirm/Deny?

Agree on Kill Bill (well, most of Tarantino's movies) running on the rule of cool. Not complaining since I liked it very much.

Actually, if I remember correctly, I think there were other katanas besides the Bride's on that plane.
I could be wrong, since it's been some time since I last watched Kill Bill, but imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266697/faq#.2.1.1) seems to agree with my impression.

About the rumour, I read an interview of Daryl Hannah today. She said something similar to that, but I'd take it with a grain of salt. If there's a Kill Bill 3, I'm probably watching it, since I like Tarantino's movies. I don't mind violence, unless there's eye-touching involved. (spoilers about KB2, OP don't open)Which, yes, means I wasn't very pleased when the Bride walked over Elle's eye in the van. Eeeeeew

Optimystik

2010-06-21, 11:20 AM

Which, yes, means I wasn't very pleased when the Bride walked over Elle's eye in the van. Eeeeeew

I loved that part! Well-deserved, too.

Closet_Skeleton

2010-06-21, 11:57 AM

Or that they really had no connection with the western Knight outside of popularized fiction created long after their dissolution (much like their code of honor).

Knights
1. Evolved from horse riding tribal warriors
2. Are well trained warriors
3. Carry swords as a status symbol even when necessity requires them to use more useful weapons.
4. Also wear the best armour available in the time period.
5. Their name is derived from a term meaning 'servant'
6. Exist to serve the leaders of a feudal system
7. Are considered 'noble' in comparison to other soldiers
8. Are incredibly romantised in fiction and were probably nothing like what everyone thinks they were.
9. Often went rogue and went into banditry
10. Had a way of making sure the person they were fighting knew what their name was.

Now tell me how Samurai are completely differant.

dehro

2010-06-21, 12:03 PM

Knights
1. Ride horses
2. Are well trained warriors
3. Carry swords as a status symbol even when necessity requires them to use more useful weapons.
4. Also wear the best armour available in the time period.
5. Their name is derived from a term meaning 'servant'
6. Exist to serve the leaders of a feudal system
7. Are considered 'noble' in comparison to other soldiers
8. Are incredibly romantised in fiction and were probably nothing like what everyone thinks they were.
9. Often went rogue and went into banditry
10. Had a way of making sure the person they were fighting knew what their name was.

Now tell me how Samurai are completely differant.

being the western equivalent to something eastern (or vice versa) doesn't mean they are the same.
it's like saying that noodles and spaghetti are the same. any decent italian, or indeed chinese/japanese chef will spit you in the eye if you say it to his face.

Closet_Skeleton

2010-06-21, 12:05 PM

being the western equivalent to something eastern (or vice versa) doesn't mean they are the same.

Did I say that?

I guess that's something that requires you to define the meaning of "the same" before any agreement can be reached. Two objects cast in the same mold can reasonably called "not the same".

it's like saying that noodles and spaghetti are the same. any decent italian, or indeed chinese/japanese chef will spit you in the eye if you say it to his face.

Which is entirely a matter of snobish pride. Especially since noodles can be made from differant species of grain.

kpenguin

2010-06-21, 12:22 PM

Is it bad that when I saw the title the first thing I thought was:

"I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE <censored> SWORDS ON THIS <censored> AIRLINE!"

The Glyphstone

2010-06-21, 12:25 PM

Is it bad that when I saw the title the first thing I thought was:

"I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE <censored> SWORDS ON THIS <censored> AIRLINE!"

No. I did too. And it is awesome.

Innis Cabal

2010-06-21, 12:42 PM

Knights
1. Evolved from horse riding tribal warriors
2. Are well trained warriors
3. Carry swords as a status symbol even when necessity requires them to use more useful weapons.
4. Also wear the best armour available in the time period.
5. Their name is derived from a term meaning 'servant'
6. Exist to serve the leaders of a feudal system
7. Are considered 'noble' in comparison to other soldiers
8. Are incredibly romantised in fiction and were probably nothing like what everyone thinks they were.
9. Often went rogue and went into banditry
10. Had a way of making sure the person they were fighting knew what their name was.

Now tell me how Samurai are completely differant.

1. Cataphracts (which the Knight evolved from) were heavy armored front line rushers. Samurai started as little more then mounted archers. They served two different roles in combat, and continued to do so up until they were phased out.

2. A Green Baret is the same as a Samurai now? No. Point two is meaningless in this regard. Skill=/=same. They were skilled in variosu skills the others were not. Regardless of overlap otherwise.

3. One point of commonality.

4. Of course they do. When they are the richest warriors, this is going to happen. Dosn't mean anything, its just how things work at the upper crust.

5. Word meaning, though important, dosn't mean anything in the end. Chauffer is now a servant in some regard, but the name comes from the french word "To warm" or "To heat".

6. Everything in the feudal system exists to serve the ruler. Your point?

7. Thats because they -were- nobles.

8. So are princesses and the vast majority of the things from that period of time. So that makes them the same?

9. Often? Not really. For everyone one rogue, another four or five remained loyal. Ronin were not all that common. This is also a case by case basis. That isn't a point of commonality, its just how some humans work.

10. Speaking of points of utter embelishment, there was little of this until much later when stories were writen, at least from the samurai. They were noble, most people already knew who they were before fighting them. Really no need to call out their name. And considering the basic idea's of bushido were written later and stories crafted around them. Another point of really not mattering in the "Their the same!!!!!!"

Which is entirely a matter of snobish pride. Especially since noodles can be made from differant species of grain.

Considering spaghetti is a type of noodle, its not so much snobbish pride as actually incorrect. Noodles is a family of foods made from unleavened dough that us cooked in a boiling liquid. Since spaghetti is in fact a wheat flour based unleavened dough boiled in water, it is in fact a noodle. Its type is called Pasta, but that's the same as saying Udon or similar. Its just a type of noodle. So its not so much snobbish pride as its patently incorrect.

Closet_Skeleton

2010-06-21, 12:53 PM

1. Cataphracts (which the Knight evolved from) were heavy armored front line rushers. Samurai started as little more then mounted archers. They served two different roles in combat, and continued to do so up until they were phased out.

That would be a point of contention as to whether or not the medieval Europeans derived anything from the Roman system they helped kill off.

2. A Green Baret is the same as a Samurai now? No. Point two is meaningless in this regard. Skill=/=same. They were skilled in variosu skills the others were not. Regardless of overlap otherwise.
One point of commonality.

My point was that there's a long list of similarities that mean something when put together, not that any single point had any meaning on its own.

4. Of course they do. When they are the richest warriors, this is going to happen. Dosn't mean anything, its just how things work at the upper crust.

Which is just an example of how logical reasons lead to parrellel evolution creating analogues.

10. Speaking of points of utter embelishment, there was little of this until much later when stories were writen, at least from the samurai. They were noble, most people already knew who they were before fighting them. Really no need to call out their name.

Head hunting was extremely popular among early samurai (its the original reason why they carried a shorter sword), which was meaningless unless you knew whose head you were taking. Its not a 'later embelishment'.

And considering the basic idea's of bushido were written later and stories crafted around them. Another point of really not mattering in the "Their the same!!!!!!"

Which is differant from Walter Scott's retconning of the crusades, or how the medieval knights themselves made up stuff about King Arthur and Charlamagne?

Innis Cabal

2010-06-21, 01:07 PM

That would be a point of contention as to whether or not the medieval Europeans derived anything from the Roman system they helped kill off.

Which has nothing to do with Samurai what so ever. The point still stands. They did not serve the same functions in war time as each other.

My point was that there's a long list of similarities that mean something when put together, not that any single point had any meaning on its own.

Head hunting was extremely popular among early samurai (its the original reason why they carried a shorter sword), which was meaningless unless you knew whose head you were taking. Its not a 'later embelishment'.

They were also nobles, well armored, and leading members of society. Chances are people had a good idea who they were. The short sword of the samurai was actually first used as a back up weapon, and only saw wide usage for other purposes as the blade length was regulated.

Not only that, it was widely popular because it was a way to get extra money. Its not like they went out looking for noble fights. They went out looking for big honking payouts. It was nothing short of glorified assasination. Again, this dosn't make Samurai=Knight.

Which is differant from Walter Scott's retconning of the crusades, or how the medieval knights themselves made up stuff about King Arthur and Charlamagne?

I didn't say it wasn't. I simply was pointing out one of your points wasn't really based on actual fact, and instead of widely embelshed works from a later date.

Just because they have similar things on some points and served in a similar social class dosn't make them the "other side of the world coin" as it were.

Dr.Epic

2010-06-21, 02:05 PM

To be fair, these were before the days where you couldn't bring Snakes on a Plane.

dehro

2010-06-21, 02:13 PM

way to kill a thread about Kill bill

TheMinxTail

2010-06-21, 05:23 PM

Is it bad that when I saw the title the first thing I thought was:

"I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE <censored> SWORDS ON THIS <censored> AIRLINE!"

Yes, I did mention the crude link between the title and Samuel L Jackson, I just didn't want to be the one to outright say it. Isn't taht meme getting kind of old? When did taht movie come out again? Hmm...

Dr.Epic

2010-06-21, 05:38 PM

Yes, I did mention the crude link between the title and Samuel L Jackson, I just didn't want to be the one to outright say it. Isn't taht meme getting kind of old? When did taht movie come out again? Hmm...

Yeah. That meme is old. I prefer "I've had it with these motha****ing Sith on this motha****ing planet!"

Kris Strife

2010-06-21, 05:44 PM

From personal experience, yes, you can bring a katana back from Japan on an airplane. You have to check it in with your suitcase though.

Optimystik

2010-06-21, 06:12 PM

From personal experience, yes, you can bring a katana back from Japan on an airplane. You have to check it in with your suitcase though.

Your invistext answered my obvious query.

TSGames

2010-06-21, 08:45 PM

Good escapist fun, really.

It sounds like you already knew the answer. ;)

Tarantino is a heck of a guy; the whole aiport scene was just a Tarantino joke.

Also, bringing a Katana on an international flight is TOTALLY LEGAL, you should try it next time.

rakkoon

2010-06-22, 03:32 AM

Brother Oni

2010-06-22, 06:39 AM

In theory, in a stand-up swordfight of Ninja Vs Samurai, I'd put my money on Samurai. Their whole purpose was to be as deadly as possible with swords, as to Ninja, deception and infiltration was their purpose, not combat.

If I remember correctly, there was quite a good example of ninja versus samurai battle in The Last Samurai.

Essentially the ninja snuck in, nearly assassinated their target and were doing quite well until the samurai recovered from the surprise and killed all the ninja.

Infiltration and poison wasn't an option due to the samurai living in an isolated insular village, thus any outsiders would have been detected almost immediately.

dehro

2010-06-22, 07:35 AM

Actually, I have some friends who got their swords from Japan and they had to have a signed document for it saying that it was a gift because otherwise...otherwise...they couldn't take it out the country of had to pay a huge amount of taxes on it, cannnot remember which one.

that will be taxes.

weapons can be transported in aircrafts, as long as they go in the cargo bay. they also need to be cleared with police authority, in that they must be named items in the cargo bay, and the transporter must have legal ownership or at the very least a permit to handle/carry said weapons. (that is, in europe and in general in international flights...no idea how it works from one state to the other in the USA).

as for the samurai vs ninja thing...there's a bit of a mixup right there.
samurai is a social class, ninja is a job description.
all samurai were at least to some degree trained in swordfight, but some samurai were clerks or administrators or had other jobs of suitable (not too demeaning, to japanese standards that is) jobs. some were ninjas
the famous 47 ronin, who killed their master's enemy and then committed seppuku were samurai who for 2 entire years leading up to the fateful night basically acted like ninjas. they took up entirely different lifestyles, became merchant, servants, cooks, drunks..you name it... and secretly plotted to collect the information they would need to kill their enemy, which they did in quite a sneaky, ninja-like fashion, employing tactics and strategies that would have made any ninja proud.
conversely, not all ninjas were samurai..and yes, there were clans of ninja, which is basically a strategical imperative, as certain skills could only be trained in secret, and would therefore be passed on to trusted individuals, usually family or suchlike. however those individuals would mostly have another job to go with..manual labour, artisans, artists..full time spies/assassins...
the nature of the ninja's profession was that of keeping it as secretive as possible..but has little to do with being of samurai class or of peasant or merchant class..even though there may have been some "moral stances" taken by samurai against them.
taking all of the above into account, there simply is no objective way to draw an archetypal ninja and pit him against the archetypal samurai and decide who would win it. because one ninja may be crap at using katana or ninjato, and the other might in fact be a samurai swordmaster in disguise.
in other words, it's an impossible debate
well..that's my opinion, of course :smallamused:

Closet_Skeleton

2010-06-22, 08:00 AM

Not only that, it was widely popular because it was a way to get extra money. Its not like they went out looking for noble fights. They went out looking for big honking payouts. It was nothing short of glorified assasination. Again, this dosn't make Samurai=Knight.

Which is exactly what Knights did. The whole point of heraldry was so that you could capture people and sell them back for ransom.

The only differance is that the knights didn't deliberately kill their noble enemies.

The problem with "ninja" is that it's a really modern term that isn't even used very often in Japan (where shinobi is more popular but equally modern). So Ninja didn't really exist, the term just gets applied to various ninja-like groups because people expect ninja to be real. Any 'historical truths' about ninja are in fact highly speculative.

conversely, not all ninjas were samurai.

"Samurai" didn't become a hard set defined term until the end of the warring states period. Lowly peasant conscripts were technically "bushi" (the japanese term that's more popular than samurai) and could and often did rise up the ranks to become household retainers. Until one particular former peasant became the most powerful person in Japan and decided nobody else should get to follow in his footsteps and the caste system became a lot more rigid.

Anyone employed to perform a military action could call himself a samurai.