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View Full Version : So you persisted timestop now what?



lyko555
2010-06-21, 12:43 PM
So you have persisted time stop. The spell says it just speeds you up, and doesnt actually pause time so you get 1d4+1 rounds to evry one elses1 round.

Assuming the above to be true what do you do with your time?

keep in mind other ppl are completly immune to you for the entire duration of time stop.

Worira
2010-06-21, 12:45 PM
Eat potatoes 1d4+1 times faster than everyone else.

taltamir
2010-06-21, 12:48 PM
1. If in combat, limit yourself to summoning and buffs.
2. Use it primarily out of combat. 1d4+1 = 3.5 rounds on average... it lasts 24 hours, so on average you get 84 hours every 24 hours... use it to craft faster, travel, read, learn, research spells etc...

Heliomance
2010-06-21, 12:51 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

balistafreak
2010-06-21, 12:51 PM
Burn out your life faster than everyone else you know?

Aaah, the perils of time magic...

Choco
2010-06-21, 12:52 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

Perfect for those slow days at work.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-21, 12:52 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

This is the appropriate answer to players who become smug when they show creativity. Lessons of humility are not only for sorcery ;)

Sliver
2010-06-21, 12:55 PM
Perfect for those slow days at work.

When others see you frozen for 24 hours, you are actually living it all as 1d4+1 rounds. You might get fired...

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-21, 12:55 PM
Glue a handful of Black Sand to the back of their head.
Put an E-Runes book bomb down their pants.
Go make a sammich and rest.
take the McGuffin and run.
build a spell turret right in front of them.
Surround them with portable holes filled with nasty stuff.
Swap their blade for a large fish.
paint a target on their shield.
Get a full days worth of buffs on all your party members.
Jam the gate controls and lock down the bridge so you can make a quick escape
Make a copy of the prison key in case you get caught.
Walls of X. Turn the battlefield into a maze.

Best when used by either a warforged or a Killorien.

lyko555
2010-06-21, 12:56 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

No it says that it apears that time has stopped because you have been sped up.
so slowing down is the opposite of what would happen.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-21, 12:59 PM
No it says that it apears that time has stopped because you have been sped up.
so slowing down is the opposite of what would happen.

A Possible read is that it "Speeds you up so 1d4+1 rounds go through the duration of the spell". They are very specific to point out that the 'duration' is of apparent time, while outside the caster it really is an instantaneous spell.

2xMachina
2010-06-21, 01:02 PM
Run circles around your enemies and taunt them.

Worira
2010-06-21, 01:02 PM
It certainly doesn't make you move 1d4+1 times as fast. It makes you move eleventyzillion times faster, but can only be maintained for 6-30 seconds.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-21, 01:07 PM
That doesn't disagree nor complement anything said so far, does it?

taltamir
2010-06-21, 01:15 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

This is still an AWESOMELY useful spell...

1. Conquer small kingdom
2. Set up schools all over the place for magic, technology, and military tactics.
3. Set up a robust system of advisers etc...
4. Fund adventuring parties to acquire great artifacts of power for your own personal use (thanks to your rapidly filling coffers)

You get to be the "immortal" king who never ages. You skip days at a time while the kingdom strengthens and builds up. Every now and then you spend a little extra personal attention on things, get outfitted with newly acquired artifacts, etc etc...

Snake-Aes
2010-06-21, 01:17 PM
This is still an AWESOMELY useful spell...

1. Conquer small kingdom
2. Set up schools all over the place for magic, technology, and military tactics.
3. Set up a robust system of advisers etc...
4. Fund adventuring parties to acquire great artifacts of power for your own personal use (thanks to your rapidly filling coffers)

You get to be the "immortal" king who never ages. You skip days at a time while the kingdom strengthens and builds up. Every now and then you spend a little extra personal attention on things, get outfitted with newly acquired artifacts, etc etc...You'd basically show up once per week... Wouldn't a Suspend Life work better for that purpose? O.o Aging a day per week compared to aging a day per year, coupled with the occasional year aging 2 days so you can recover the spent points.

taltamir
2010-06-21, 01:25 PM
You'd basically show up once per week... Wouldn't a Suspend Life work better for that purpose? O.o Aging a day per week compared to aging a day per year, coupled with the occasional year aging 2 days so you can recover the spent points.

I should have known WOTC would have already printed a spell that does exactly that, only cheaper and easier... whats the point of breaking spells, just look through the thousands of printed spells for a prebroken one.

Mystic Muse
2010-06-21, 01:27 PM
What's suspend life?

Heliomance
2010-06-21, 01:29 PM
By the sound of it, a psionic power that puts you in suspended animation.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-21, 01:30 PM
What's suspend life?

Level 6 Psionic Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/suspendLife.htm), permanent. Lets you trance and your body slows down 365 times, letting a day pass in your system while a year passes outside. You'd have to recast it every now and then but that shouldn't be less troublesome than maintaining persisted time stops.

jiriku
2010-06-21, 01:30 PM
Persisted timestop cast every day = all the vacation you could ever want, as long as you don't mind vacationing by yourself.

Mystic Muse
2010-06-21, 01:35 PM
Level 6 Psionic Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/suspendLife.htm),

Daww I was hoping for something I could use for my Paladin.:smallfrown:

Note: I use a much better, homebrew version of Paladin.

Dogmantra
2010-06-21, 01:40 PM
When others see you frozen for 24 hours, you are actually living it all as 1d4+1 rounds. You might get fired...

Or buried because people think you're dead.

Rothen
2010-06-21, 01:42 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

Well, we already had this discussion in the Incantatrix thread, but persisting a time stop could very well be read as persisting the 1d4+1 apparent time, and by RAW, there is nothing that prevents you from interpreting the spell that way.

Regardless of balance issues, my wizard now has 24 hours to mope about while you blink and stare at him in slow-motion. What should he do with that time?

Sliver
2010-06-21, 01:45 PM
Or buried because people think you're dead.

Well, probably... But you still feel time passing. Every second for you is a hour+ for the world. You won't get buried in a hour after casting the spell, and considering you are frozen, not limp, it might hint them at something. They might thikn you were petrified.

taltamir
2010-06-21, 02:07 PM
Daww I was hoping for something I could use for my Paladin.:smallfrown:

Note: I use a much better, homebrew version of Paladin.

WBL is notoriously easy to break, item crafting rules are ALSO notoriously easy to break...
believe me your paladin can use it :)

Mystic Muse
2010-06-21, 02:08 PM
WBL is notoriously easy to break, item crafting rules are ALSO notoriously easy to break...
believe me your paladin can use it :)

Ooh. Good point. I'm going to ask my DM about this next session and ask him what he'd price it at as an item.

Dogmantra
2010-06-21, 02:09 PM
considering you are frozen, not limp, it might hint them at something.

Rigor Mortis?

mjames
2010-06-21, 02:10 PM
Warning: Generic Timestop question... If we are using the assumption that everyone else experiences time just gets fewer actions than you per round... (or if some one of the other opinion is welcome to chime in as well)

1. Do AAOs become triggered?
2. How does it affect other round/time manipulation? How do they interact?

2xMachina
2010-06-21, 02:11 PM
They can't affect you actually, since in Timestop, you cannot affect other creatures in the slowed time line.

Koury
2010-06-21, 02:18 PM
So you persisted timestop now what?

Indian burns. Indian burns for everyone. Just imagine the panic that would start.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-21, 02:27 PM
See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

Op's question said: If you assume that you can persist time stop... This isn't the thread for an argument about its duration and really there is no good argument to be had for either side. The RAW is silent on (apparent time) and citing FAQ and the Sage will still be met with that fact.

The classic thing to do is to re-prepare all of your spells, including making sure you can cast another persisted time stop. Every time something needs to be done, make sure you have the tool for it. Celerity is fine too.

Use craft wondrous item to craft one-shot magic device traps of all your most horrible spells and place them where they will be sure to trigger on enemies when time resumes.

Bayar
2010-06-21, 02:28 PM
So you have persisted time stop. The spell says it just speeds you up, and doesnt actually pause time so you get 1d4+1 rounds to evry one elses1 round.

Assuming the above to be true what do you do with your time?

keep in mind other ppl are completly immune to you for the entire duration of time stop.

That makes even less sense as far as Persistent Time Stop goes. This is not a Planar Shepperd Bubble, it is a magical effect that only works when you cast it on your turn. Even persisted it wouldn't work EVERY turn unless you cast it every turn.


See, Time Stop gives you 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Persistent Spell does nothing to that, it changes the actual duration to 24 hours. So what would happen is, you'd get 1d4+1 rounds of actions while the rest of the world got 24 hours.

This would most likely happen.


Well, we already had this discussion in the Incantatrix thread, but persisting a time stop could very well be read as persisting the 1d4+1 apparent time, and by RAW, there is nothing that prevents you from interpreting the spell that way.

Duration: 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time, but see text.You can interpret it as if it persists the apparent duration or the real duration. The former puts even more cheese on something that can be easily abused, the latter prevents you from doing it. Ultimately, it comes to the DM (like most of these things).

okpokalypse
2010-06-21, 02:49 PM
It wouldn't work.

Time Stop's Duration is 1d4+1 Rounds of Apparent Time. The actual Duration is Instantaneous.

I believe this has been Sage'd

Mystic Muse
2010-06-21, 02:53 PM
It wouldn't work.

Time Stop's Duration is 1d4+1 Rounds of Apparent Time. The actual Duration is Instantaneous.

I believe this has been Sage'd

As has been shown in the other thread (the on about the incantatrix) Sage is not RAW

Sliver
2010-06-21, 02:57 PM
As has been shown in the other thread (the on about the incantatrix) Sage is not RAW

Huh, I thought he ment Swordsage'd, as in Ninja'd, but better, and shorter this time...:smallredface:

Gametime
2010-06-21, 04:54 PM
It wouldn't work.

Time Stop's Duration is 1d4+1 Rounds of Apparent Time. The actual Duration is Instantaneous.

I believe this has been Sage'd

The actual duration is "1d4+1 rounds (apparent time)." There has never been errata to change the duration to Instantaneous.

The Sage just says that Time Stop's duration is "effectively" instantaneous for the purposes of the Persistent Spell feat. There's really no justification for that in the rules, so you either have to treat it as errata (which is sensible but not what the FAQ is supposed to be) or ignore it.

(Interestingly, Time Stop and Persistent Spell aren't mentioned in the 3.5 FAQ, only in the 3.0 FAQ. Nothing in the text from either the spell or the feat has changed, to my knowledge, so the ruling is exactly as important either way, but I found it amusing. Also, 3.0 Persistent Spell only raised the spell level by four. Ell oh ell.)

Jack_Simth
2010-06-21, 05:09 PM
Well... it depends.


If you're a Wizard/Sorcerer/Other Arcanist, and your DM says you get one day in that standard action, then he's got a problem: The time stop can be overlapped and chained for as long as is needed, as the Wizard can replenish resources in that time. Which means you can basically do anything ... like, say, stack the ground underneath the person on top of their heads. For a mile or ten.

If you're a Cleric/Favored Soul/Other Divine caster, and your DM says you get one day in that standard action, then he's got a minor problem: you get one extra day a small number of times per day. You can still set up traps, and do some really mean things, but the biggest chunk of cheese is gone.

If you're "merely" getting 1d4+1 rounds to everyone else's 1 round, then your best bet is a Summoning strategy - because the Summons can still attack, and you can really surround your opponent.

If your DM rules that you get 1d4+1 rounds over the next 24 hours... you don't do much of note.

tonberrian
2010-06-21, 05:45 PM
You know, I'd be tempted to run this the other way - "real time" is 24 hours. Doesn't sound so bad? You'd have a very good chance of dying before the effect expires.

Only really works if the character has no access to Dispel Magic, though.

Shhalahr Windrider
2010-06-21, 06:51 PM
The Sage just says that Time Stop's duration is "effectively" instantaneous for the purposes of the Persistent Spell feat. There's really no justification for that in the rules, so you either have to treat it as errata (which is sensible but not what the FAQ is supposed to be) or ignore it.
The fact that the description actually says “apparent time” isn’t justification?

2xMachina
2010-06-22, 01:26 AM
RAW doesn't care about balance. RAI does, and that's why, most attempts to stop RAW abuse are RAI readings.

Not that RAI are is the wrong way to play.

Beorn080
2010-06-22, 01:38 AM
I would use the time to invent microdot's, then create posters covered with millions of microdot Explosive runes. Position said poster in front of people.

Alternatively, cover a city with grease spells.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-22, 01:53 AM
"Assuming the above to be true" apparently means, "Ignore the original post and argue about whether or not the above is true."

You learn something new every day!

JaronK
2010-06-22, 02:26 AM
To avoid arguments (and the need for spending feats) you could always just cast Genesis once and then gate there when you want your time stops...

JaronK

Morph Bark
2010-06-22, 03:23 AM
No it says that it apears that time has stopped because you have been sped up.
so slowing down is the opposite of what would happen.

It's been errata'd that it doesn't work this way. You can't use Time Stop to get 24 hours for free in the middle of combat or anything like that. I asked this a week ago on another forum.

Rothen
2010-06-22, 03:40 AM
It's been errata'd that it doesn't work this way. You can't use Time Stop to get 24 hours for free in the middle of combat or anything like that. I asked this a week ago on another forum.

FAQ /=/ errata. So unless you've found an errata that says this and can redirect us to it, this is not RAW.

Edit: This is really getting rather silly, and we're really ignoring what the OP asked. :smallannoyed:

Morph Bark
2010-06-22, 03:54 AM
FAQ /=/ errata. So unless you've found an errata that says this and can redirect us to it, this is not RAW.

Edit: This is really getting rather silly, and we're really ignoring what the OP asked. :smallannoyed:

I wasn't talking about any FAQs, where did you gather that from?

If needed, here's a link to the thread where I asked: link (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8350.0).

To the other part:


So you have persisted time stop. The spell says it just speeds you up, and doesnt actually pause time so you get 1d4+1 rounds to evry one elses1 round.

Assuming the above to be true what do you do with your time?

keep in mind other ppl are completly immune to you for the entire duration of time stop.

You still can't actually affect others: time stop in SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/spellsTtoZ.html#time-stop).

Others are invulnerable to what you might do to them, and area spells that last longer than the duration of time stop only start affecting others besides you after the time stop has ended -- you could read this as that the effects have to last more than your 1d4+1 round to start affecting them or they only start to affect them after your ((1d4+1)x60x60x24) rounds are up.

Irreverent Fool
2010-06-22, 04:52 AM
Others are invulnerable to what you might do to them, and area spells that last longer than the duration of time stop only start affecting others besides you after the time stop has ended -- you could read this as that the effects have to last more than your 1d4+1 round to start affecting them or they only start to affect them after your ((1d4+1)x60x60x24) rounds are up.

Filling the area with walls of iron and leaning them up against these invulnerable enemies comes to mind.

And there are so many things to do in infinite time aside from casting more spells.

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-22, 05:04 AM
You persisted time stop... now wait for the 2d8 + 12 phanes starting to appear each round.

Sliver
2010-06-22, 05:44 AM
Throw around caltrops!

But the reading of 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time per 1 real round makes no sense. It means that out of your turn, you act and react as if the spell has no effect and you are only sped up 1d4+1 times faster on your turn. It is not a significant increase that will cause everybody else to seem frozen. Haste makes you almost double as fast as usual, Time Stop makes you so fast that everybody else seem to freeze, but your actions don't take a round, but an insignificant amount.

A persisted spell works for 24 hours of real time. Or should be, by RAI. RAW is blurry here so it's a houserule to say it's not giving you free 24 hours to act.

A time stop that works for 24 hours of real time makes the caster die of old age. A round in time stop is so insignificant that the wizard will get so many rounds of a 24 hours of time stop that when the spell is over, the wizard is just too old.

I would like to point out that the spells per day thing doesn't fit in a lot of settings. Day is relative to the setting you are in and can be screwed with a lot, so it makes more sense to be an internal wizardy thing. A wizard that passes a day in a time stop will get to refresh his mind just as a regular wizard (otherwise, a time quickened plane won't offer a benefit on the spell refreshing part)

Prime32
2010-06-22, 06:50 AM
Uses for a time stop that lasts all day:

Play a warforged wizard and stop time for 100 years, becoming the only warforged ever to hit middle age (and gaining aging bonuses).

Build a castle around your enemies.

See everything in the world.

Morph Bark
2010-06-22, 06:52 AM
Uses for a time stop that lasts all day:

Play a warforged wizard and stop time for 100 years, becoming the only warforged ever to hit middle age (and gaining aging bonuses).

Build a castle around your enemies.

I bet this is how Castle Greyhawk was created after said wizard attracted a few too many enemies.

Chen
2010-06-22, 07:01 AM
If we're talking strictly RAW here all that happens is that you get your 1d4+1 rounds apparent time and then the time stop spell keeps going for 24 hours real time (doing nothing though).

There is nothing RAW that says Persist spell gives you 24 hours of apparent time. It says the duration is changed to 24 hours. Thats it. Imagine persist didn't have the clause to not allow persisting of instantaneous spells. A large number of said spells would do NOTHING when persisted. Its the same situation here. The RAW lets you use persist on time stop (due to sloppy wording of the Duration field), but it doesn't do anything because the real time duration of time stop is irrelevant to its effect.

Jack_Simth
2010-06-22, 07:15 AM
If needed, here's a link to the thread where I asked: link (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8350.0).Umm... reply #1 in the thread is one guy saying "trust me", but providing no evidence. Reply #10 in that thread is saying "Ah, no it isn't".

It might help to link to the official Wizard's Errata Page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). Let's see... Time Stop is in the Player's Handbook, and the Errata for the Player's Handbook (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/PHBErrata02062006.zip) does not include any changes to Time Stop.

Persistent Spell is in a couple of different places - Complete Arcane, Deities and Demigods, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and the Player's Guide to Faerun.

Deities and Demigods has no Errata, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings is 3.0, and the Player's Guide to Faerun is campaign-specific. So we check The Errata for Complete Arcane (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/CompArcaneErrata03162005.zip) - which includes no update to the Persistent Spell Feat.

Sorry. One thread where one guy says one thing with no evidence does not make a thing true.