Dark Chaos Shuffle & Dipping Shenanigans

[Coidzor]

So I was just looking up the Armor Proficiency feats on the SRD due to the whole thing about animal companions and how one gets them proficient in armor use, and I noticed this little tidbit and its equivalents for medium and heavy armor.


Special

All characters except wizards, sorcerers, and monks automatically have Armor Proficiency (light) as a bonus feat. They need not select it.

I also remember something about finagling things like tower shield proficiency from fighter into feats for dark chaos shuffle...

So... could one use the redundant bonus feats by shuffling them away prior to multi-classing and then getting the proficiencies back? :smallconfused:

If so... that's... what... 3, 4, maybe 5 feats from dipping Fighter 1?

[EvilJoe15]

Yeah, even more when you consider that the fighter has proficiency in all martial weapons.

[Curmudgeon]

Yeah, even more when you consider that the fighter has proficiency in all martial weapons.
Doesn't apply. They get the proficiencies, but not as bonus feats.
Special: Barbarians, fighters, paladins, and rangers are proficient with all martial weapons. They need not select this feat.

[Marriclay]

Doesn't apply. They get the proficiencies, but not as bonus feats.

Still nice that you get that fighter bonus feat, though. How many classes are there that give you a bonus feat or two from one level? Monk's a good one for that.

[Curmudgeon]

How many classes are there that give you a bonus feat or two from one level?
There are a bunch. Ranger 1 gives Track, which I find an excellent candidate for the Dark Chaos Shuffle (when you can afford the 4,900 gp cost, that is).

[Coidzor]

So... is that a yes then on the armor and shield proficiency bonus feats?

[Curmudgeon]

So... is that a yes then on the armor and shield proficiency bonus feats?
That's a yes for those that are explicitly expressed as bonus feats. You're trading away something that has real value but just doesn't happen to fit with your build, and with a real cost (4,900 gp per feat traded).

Edit: Do note that just because the rules allow it doesn't mean your DM will be happy. YMMV.

[IdleMuse]

I think Cloistered Cleric can give you four feats at first level, on top of proficiencies (of which he has four; all three armours and shield), giving you eight feats for one level dip.

Armour Proficiency (light)
Armour Proficiency (medium)
Armour Proficiency (heavy)
Shield Proficiency
Knowledge Devotion
Martial Weapon Proficiency (something)
Weapon Focus (something)
Another Domain-granted-power feat. Are there any other domains that grant two or more feats as granted powers?

EDIT: Yup, the Metal domain also grants you Proficiency and Focus with a weapon (hammer!), so, 8 feats for one level.

[Greenish]

I think Cloistered Cleric can give you four feats at first level, on top of proficiencies (of which he has four; all three armours and shield), giving you eight feats for one level dip.Cloistered Clerics are only proficient with light armour.

[IdleMuse]

Oh yeah, derp :P

Well, just do it with regular cleric then, for 8

[CockroachTeaParty]

Also, you can't take Knowledge Devotion at level 1, as it has a 5 rank Knowledge skill prereq.

[IdleMuse]

Well, since this discussion is about taking dips for more feats to shuffle away, I doubt that matters; also, I believe the domain swap for devotion ignores prereqs.