Dragon Age V: En-chantment? EN-Chantment!

[Trixie]

So...

[placeholder for my new crazy theory about Flemeth to be posted later]

[mangosta71]

He stresses the second syllable. En-CHANTment!

[SolkaTruesilver]

I plan to play as a mage next game. A "Crusader Team", with me Female Mage, Alistair, Leliana, Wrynn and (with the Free Dog Spot) Dog as the 5th Ranger.

very religious, but also free-thinker character, so I hope to succeed at making our friend the Blood Mage getting freed. Also, I might not have any qualm about learning Blood Magic myself.

On the other hand, maybe you could give me a good idea for an alternale prestige specialisation class selection? What should I take if I already have Wrynn in my team? And Dog/Alistair, and Leliana (ranged rogue, probably also a Ranger)

[Kish]

Wynne. Not Wrynn. :smallannoyed:

Whatever you take, as a mage, you'll be far more powerful than either other class. You can take Arcane Warrior and Spirit Healer and outtank warriors, or Blood Mage and (a specialization you won't actually use except for the base stat boost, probably Spirit Healer) and shatter the world with your power.

[FoE]

I plan to play as a mage next game. A "Crusader Team", with me Female Mage, Alistair, Leliana, Wrynn and (with the Free Dog Spot) Dog as the 5th Ranger.

very religious, but also free-thinker character, so I hope to succeed at making our friend the Blood Mage getting freed.

To save Jowan from execution, you need to seek help from the Circle of Magi to rescue Connor and then send Jowan into the Fade to fight the demon.

@V: Aye, indeed it is. It allows you to have Dog "tag along" even with a four-man party, though I'm not sure if he can fight or not.

[Morty]

I plan to play as a mage next game. A "Crusader Team", with me Female Mage, Alistair, Leliana, Wrynn and (with the Free Dog Spot) Dog as the 5th Ranger.


Free Dog Spot? :smallconfused: Is that a mod?

[Calemyr]

Yes, there is a mod that makes the dog an automatic summon for the rest of Origins. This is really nice because he's a fun inclusion to the game, but hardly worth a slot in the later parts of the game.

Some comments I wanted to make regarding the end of the last thread:

1) While impaling ogres with a maul or axe looks stupid, doing it with a mace looks pretty badass. One of the guards in the prologue tower got the killing blow on the ogre and I was quite impressed with the sight.

2) Personally I like Leliana. I like sweet girls with a fiery personality, I like accents, and I like people who don't get pissed off when I opt not to drown puppies. Morrigan is attractive, her acid wit is hilarious, and most importantly she's voiced by Claudia Black, but the character fails to catch my attention because I can't get past how annoying her attitude is.

[Zevox]

...ack. So, I recently lent my brother my 360 and copy of Dragon Age to try. Today, he comes and tells me that at a certain point, the system hits an "unreadable disk" error. I take a look at it, and it seems there's a rather large ring-scratch on the disk, something I recall being warned about at Gamestop once as a problem that comes from jostling the system while its running. My brother claims he did no such thing... but that ring didn't just come from nowhere.

So, query for anyone with more 360 experience than me: is there any way to fix this (the one that comes to mind is that I know that Family Video stores near here have a device for cleaning CDs I might try), or will I just have to get another copy of the game?

Zevox

[FoE]

So, query for anyone with more 360 experience than me: is there any way to fix this (the one that comes to mind is that I know that Family Video stores near here have a device for cleaning CDs I might try), or will I just have to get another copy of the game?

This didn't happen at first, but I get the "unreadable" error A LOT. In fact, it happens nearly every time I insert the DA disc. It will even get as far as the point where I'm loading my last save. But it always seems to work when I wipe off the disc with a cloth and lightly blow on it.

[Zevox]

This didn't happen at first, but I get the "unreadable" error A LOT. In fact, it happens nearly every time I insert the DA disc. It will even get as far as the point where I'm loading my last save. But it always seems to work when I wipe off the disc with a cloth and lightly blow on it.
Not what I'm getting. It happened whenever my brother approached Orzammar, when the mercs outside it attack. The system made a clicking noise and the error occurred shortly into the fight. He tried cleaning it off, and it didn't help. And the ring on the disk is pretty large and definitely like the example a Gamestop employee once showed me, so I'm pretty certain this is the problem.

Zevox

[Trixie]

Well... do you live in Europe?

[Zevox]

No. US. What would that have to do with it? :smallconfused:

Zevox

[Trixie]

Well... In Europe, you can make perfectly legal copy of the game, and laugh when the console scratches that. Or, rely on good consumer protection and get them to exchange your disc and/or console.

But since RIAA/MPAA made these things illegal in the US, well, all I can advise you is to:

A) buy special kit filling scratches/cleaning your DVDs; B) try to mail-exchange the disc; C) failing both of these, sell X-box and buy gaming card for PC instead. Seriously. Or, if you really don't want that, get this new revision of X360, it supposedly fixed both RRoD and disc scratching. Some places will even allow to exchange your old X360 for new for a (relatively) small fee.

[Hawriel]

Im sorry if this is a derailment but the title of the thread hopfully opens the door.


Was any one els just a little bit disturbed by finding the retarted dwarf at the top of that fort? I meen I fight touth and nail to get to that storeroom door. I buff up and rush in only to find a room full of bodies and a retarted dwarf kid coverd in blood. :smalleek: "enchantment?"

I just say yes please what ever you say and let him play with my runes.

[Zevox]

A) buy special kit filling scratches/cleaning your DVDs
Such a thing exists and works :smallconfused: ?


B) try to mail-exchange the disc
Not going to work - the warranty was only for 90 days, and I got it on release.


C) failing both of these, sell X-box and buy gaming card for PC instead. Seriously.
No. I play more games on the 360 than just ones available on the PC, and frankly hate PC controls for games that aren't either overhead point-and-click types (like RTS games) or turn-based. Yeah, long story short, I'm a console/handheld gamer, not a PC gamer.


Or, if you really don't want that, get this new revision of X360, it supposedly fixed both RRoD and disc scratching. Some places will even allow to exchange your old X360 for new for a (relatively) small fee.
Also no. I am not spending another $300 on another console when my current one works perfectly well (I'd sooner spend the money on a PS3, and I have no intention of doing that either), and this issue almost certainly only occurred due to my brother's treatment of the system - I have not experienced it myself in 9 months of owning the console with 10 games + rentals, likely because I keep it on a large and solid desk away from anything that might jostle it while turned on. Nor am I interested in trading it in if there is a fee above single-digit dollars involved. Especially since I've already heard that the new version does in fact have RRoDs anyway, so it's likely not true that it actually fixed those issues.

All I'm asking is if the damage to the disk can be fixed, or if I will have to purchase a new game next time I want to play Dragon Age. I am not interested in doing anything with my 360.

Zevox

[JadedDM]

Personally I like Leliana. I like sweet girls with a fiery personality, I like accents, and I like people who don't get pissed off when I opt not to drown puppies. Morrigan is attractive, her acid wit is hilarious, and most importantly she's voiced by Claudia Black, but the character fails to catch my attention because I can't get past how annoying her attitude is.

Personally, so do I. The first time I played the game, I was a straight up LG knight type (Noble Human Warrior, Sword and Shield Style, Templar/Champion) and I had no preconceived notions on what I would do, because I had no idea what was going to happen (I had avoided spoilers pretty well; I knew Morrigan and Leliana were romance options, but I assumed I would prefer the former as she was...well, voiced by Claudia Black.)

But Morrigan quickly pissed me off with her constant complaining. I enjoyed her banter with Alistair, but when she started bitching at me every time I tried to help someone, I quickly grew tired of her. Eventually I just sent her to camp, taking Dog with me instead. This turned out to be a bad decision, as I needed a mage, so I took her back and just sucked it up. Once I recruited Wynne, I never took Morrigan with me again.

Leliana, however, quickly grew on me. I've always had a thing for red heads, and her French Orlesian accent really worked for me (I later looked it up, and it turns out the voice actress is really French. No wonder it sounded so good.) I wound up romancing her instead, and found it very sweet, especially when she finally confessed her feelings to me.

The only downside was...

I opted to sacrifice myself to kill the archdemon. The epilogue strongly hinted that Leliana was so devastated by my death, she took her own life. This actually depressed me for awhile.

In a later playthrough, I tried romancing Morrigan instead. I found it...thoroughly unsatisfying compared to Leliana's. Probably because the closer I got with Morrigan, the further a distance she kept me. By the end, she didn't feel like my lover at all. And then of course...

She did the ritual and then ran off on me. :smallmad:


Well... In Europe, you can make perfectly legal copy of the game, and laugh when the console scratches that. Or, rely on good consumer protection and get them to exchange your disc and/or console.

But since RIAA/MPAA made these things illegal in the US...

Yeah, Maker bless the USA, eh?

[SolkaTruesilver]

My first playthrough was as a real manipulative double-stabber Dwarven Warrior Noble. I kept a relationship with Morrigan, was great drinkin buddy with Oghren, and was on almost "Blood Brother" level with Zhevran.

I put my brother on the throne, I pissed on Andraste's ashes and anything related to their cult. I killed all mages, kept the Golem comin'. Killed all Werewolves (a wizard as powerful as Tuvok has to be kept as a good ally), and I plan to put Loghain on the Throne :smallbiggrin:

Fun game. I still saved the village from the zombies, and did selfless acts when it was fun and self-rewarding. I don't play Chaotic Stupid. Just... manipulative bastard.

Oh, I killed the Crow questgiver once he outlived his usefulness :smallwink:

[Arbitrarity]

No. I play more games on the 360 than just ones available on the PC, and frankly hate PC controls for games that aren't either overhead point-and-click types (like RTS games) or turn-based. Yeah, long story short, I'm a console/handheld gamer, not a PC gamer.


Isn't... this exactly what Dragon Age is?

[Zevox]

Isn't... this exactly what Dragon Age is?
I wouldn't know, since I've never played it on the PC. That wasn't what I was getting at, though - that was an explanation for why I'm not a PC gamer, not a reason for me to not want Dragon Age on the PC. (The reason for that is because my current PC can't handle it and I can get it on the 360 anyway, so I have no need to upgrade my PC to get it for that.)

Zevox

[Arbitrarity]

Ah, Ok. I played DA:O like a RTS game with a pause button, honestly. Top down view, activate powers, target powers, etc. Not using pause would be an interesting challenge, I should consider it. Would probably force better tactics use.

[Avilan the Grey]

I play it somewhere in between. I really enjoy setting up the scripts for the companions, so I usually play zoomed in, except when I really need to make tactical decisions (or can't reach the enemy my character is supposed to attack), when I zoom out, and then zoom in again to watch the carnage up close and personal.

[The Rose Dragon]

2) Personally I like Leliana. I like sweet girls with a fiery personality, I like accents, and I like people who don't get pissed off when I opt not to drown puppies. Morrigan is attractive, her acid wit is hilarious, and most importantly she's voiced by Claudia Black, but the character fails to catch my attention because I can't get past how annoying her attitude is.

Morrigan would never expect you to drown puppies. It would serve no purpose. If she disapproves of something, it's because it serves no purpose (according to her, at least) or is needlessly convoluted, when a simpler and more efficient approach exists.

Morrigan is not evil for Evil's sake, she is simply pragmatic (and possibly mildly antisocial due to growing in a swamp with the most frequent human contact being templars trying to kill them).

I never took Morrigan with me anyway, just because she's not actually a very useful companion. But I never got the complaints about her being a puppy-kicking bitch.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, so right now I am actually doing the "start every origin - continue with the one(s) you enjoy to play the most". It is actually a quite fun idea, and I will go back later and play the others. The stopping point, if anyone wonders, is finishing Lothering, when the game cuts you loose). I do this in two parts, first the basic origin, until you are presented to the King at Ostagar, and then go back and finish the rest up to leaving Lothering.

So far I have started :

Human Female Dual Wield Fighter - This is one of two origins that I always play as female, the other one for obvious reasons is City Elf. For some reason this character feels better as a female, maybe because it is the one origin where you have such a close relationship with your mother. Goody-two-shoes. Will marry Alistair at the end.

Human Male Mage - This is my second mage ever, in any game! I usually don't play them but so far I enjoy it in this game. I settled on human because they are slightly taller (looks better) and male because the two other mages you can have in your party are female. Ruthless, but not evil in a cartoony way. Respects honor and dignity. Will romance Morrigan.

Dwarf Male Noble SoS Fighter - Tried to build him so that he actually resembles his brothers in looks. Skilled politician, quite nice and honorable otherwise. Basically agrees with Bhelens politics and outlook, and it is quite sad that if his brother had just asked, he would happily have helped putting him on the throne since he hates his other brother. Will romance Leliana.

So, what is left is:

Dwarf Male Commoner Dual-wielding Rogue - Not-really-Belkar, hates his "job", not completely psychotic, but not a very nice guy. Will romance Morrigan or Zevran, have not decided yet.

City Elf Female - I have not decided class yet. I am tempted to go rogue with (cross)bows just because it is not the typical choice. Also, I am doing two dual-wielders already. Ideas please? Will romance Leliana.

Dalish Elf Male - Not decided class here either. Help please?. Will romance Leliana.

[Kish]

To save Jowan from execution, you need to seek help from the Circle of Magi to rescue Connor and then send Jowan into the Fade to fight the demon.
Not true. I don't know exactly what the requirements are, but Jowan can be sent back to the Circle to be Tranquilized without being sent into the Fade to fight the demon. I think he can be if you let him out and he helps at all. (Possibly only if Isolde and Conner are both alive; I've never killed them.) I'm not sure if making him Tranquil is any kinder than killing him, though.

If you want to actually let him go, you need to release him from his cell and tell him to go far away before you meet Connor.

[Eldan]

Zevox: A thing I know that worked with computer DVDs before when they were scratched: put them in the freezer overnight. It actually seems to fill the scratches. You still see them, but with other games I've tried, it made them readable again.

[Dienekes]

Morrigan would never expect you to drown puppies. It would serve no purpose. If she disapproves of something, it's because it serves no purpose (according to her, at least) or is needlessly convoluted, when a simpler and more efficient approach exists.

Nah, that's Sten. Morry takes a point that helping others is always stupid since they should learn to be surviving on their own. Even if their peasants with no real means to get out of their trouble or locked away in an oppressive tower, screw 'em they should fix the impossible themselves. Unless it's her, then you should help her.


I never took Morrigan with me anyway, just because she's not actually a very useful companion. But I never got the complaints about her being a puppy-kicking bitch.

She's a mage. Ergo she is one of the two most useful companions.

[mangosta71]

City Elf Female - I have not decided class yet. I am tempted to go rogue with (cross)bows just because it is not the typical choice. Also, I am doing two dual-wielders already. Ideas please? Will romance Leliana.

Dalish Elf Male - Not decided class here either. Help please?. Will romance Leliana.

I think city elf warriors get their bonus talent in 2-handers. Make sure you have the mod that makes using them not suck.

Both Dalish elf classes get an archery talent as their freebie at creation. Besides which, there's no origin that makes an archer rogue more appropriate.

[Calemyr]

Morrigan would never expect you to drown puppies. It would serve no purpose. If she disapproves of something, it's because it serves no purpose (according to her, at least) or is needlessly convoluted, when a simpler and more efficient approach exists.

Perhaps I overstated it, but the simple fact is that everything I do, she disapproves. Try to negotiate a reasonable price range for an already strapped refugee town? Morrie disapproves. Try to save the town of possibly the only political ally you can find? Morrie disapproves. If it were just "what benefits us", I could live with it, but she gets pissed off over just about any attempt to help people (Sten being one notable exception), regardless of the tactical advantages it might bring.

And its not like I'm sacrificing anything to help them in the first place, is it? I'm a bleeding Grey Warden, an honest-to-Andraste god of war, who slays dragons for fun and high dragons on a whim.


Morrigan is not evil for Evil's sake, she is simply pragmatic (and possibly mildly antisocial due to growing in a swamp with the most frequent human contact being templars trying to kill them).

As I've said for a long time, this game is less about good and evil and more about pragmatism and altruism, so I agree with you on this point. While I won't blame her for her screwed up childhood, she doesn't get to use that for a defense and still claim to know better than any Warden about the social and tactical consequences of what usually boils down to contract killing.


I never took Morrigan with me anyway, just because she's not actually a very useful companion. But I never got the complaints about her being a puppy-kicking bitch.

If you don't bring her along, she's a wonderful ally. Great dialog, witty, pleasant to look at, possibly even a good friend. When you bring her along, however, she is an insubordinate pain in the ass who gripes about anything that doesn't immediately fit into her philosophy.

Mind you, I don't have any such trouble with the other pragmatic allies, such as Sten and Shale. Shale can be reasoned with, and Sten can acknowledge your right to make such decisions. There is no reasoning with Morrigan, however, she is right and you are a moron. End of story.

As for what kind of Dalish to play, one of my runs through was with a Dalish mage, thanks to a mod. It's not perfect, because the script automatically assumes that any mage is part of the circle, but there is some fun to be had roleplaying a Dalish mage.

[The Rose Dragon]

She's a mage. Ergo she is one of the two most useful companions.

She's a mage with horrible spells and an even more horrible specialization. Her only advantage is that she joins you early in the game, so you can try and make her a bit better. I usually don't try.

The fact that I mostly play mages might have helped me see her as largely useless.

[mangosta71]

She's a mage with horrible spells and an even more horrible specialization. Her only advantage is that she joins you early in the game, so you can try and make her a bit better. I usually don't try.

The fact that I mostly play mages might have helped me see her as largely useless.

You get her early enough that the spell selection is only screwed up if you have autolevel on after you pick her up. Or you can pick up a mod that removes all the auto-leveling for your followers and turn her into a powerhouse. Having Morrigan in the party means you don't have to go to the Tower first. And honestly, I found her less irritating than Wynne's constant preaching anyway.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think city elf warriors get their bonus talent in 2-handers. Make sure you have the mod that makes using them not suck.

Both Dalish elf classes get an archery talent as their freebie at creation. Besides which, there's no origin that makes an archer rogue more appropriate.

True. Two-handed for the female (no mod, but to be fair they do NOT suck. They are just not as overpowered...

...And archer for the Dalish.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That doesn't help much. A Warrior Archer or a Rogue Archer?

[mangosta71]

True. Two-handed for the female (no mod, but to be fair they do NOT suck. They are just not as overpowered...
They may do more damage per swing than a dual-wielder, but the dual wielder gets 4+ swings in the same amount of time which means they have more than double the damage output (assuming you're running mod-free).
That doesn't help much. A Warrior Archer or a Rogue Archer?
Rogues make MUCH better archers than warriors.

[Avilan the Grey]

That doesn't help much. A Warrior Archer or a Rogue Archer?

Rogue Archer.

[Kish]

She's a mage with horrible spells and an even more horrible specialization.
Which makes her merely more powerful than any not-Wynne companion. (Tied for first place if you specify "damage mage, not healer.")

She's still a mage. She'll probably appear relatively weak if you actually have her shapeshift: so don't.

[Avilan the Grey]

Which makes her merely more powerful than any not-Wynne companion. (Tied for first place if you specify "damage mage, not healer.")

She's still a mage. She'll probably appear relatively weak if you actually have her shapeshift: so don't.

Exactly. Expand her cold spells and entropy tree.

[Eldan]

So, as a total newbie still on his first playthrough with his own mage: what to specialize in? My default party is Leliana, Wynne, Alistair and myself as debuffer/damage dealer. Blood mage is out, I didn't go that way on the question. The other two seem... well, kinda useless.

[Muz]

Im sorry if this is a derailment but the title of the thread hopfully opens the door.

Was any one els just a little bit disturbed by finding the retarted dwarf at the top of that fort? I meen I fight touth and nail to get to that storeroom door. I buff up and rush in only to find a room full of bodies and a retarted dwarf kid coverd in blood. :smalleek: "enchantment?"

I just say yes please what ever you say and let him play with my runes.

Glad I'm not the only one. Though I thought it was as hilarious as it was disturbing.

I'm a little afraid to ask what happened to his father. :smalleek:

[Avilan the Grey]

So, as a total newbie still on his first playthrough with his own mage: what to specialize in? My default party is Leliana, Wynne, Alistair and myself as debuffer/damage dealer. Blood mage is out, I didn't go that way on the question. The other two seem... well, kinda useless.

Honestly, if you are playing a "normal" mage, and don't want to do blood magic, just pick something and ignore it. If you are playing a healer, pick spirit healer.

If you want to try something different, get the Arcane Warrior / Spirit Healer combo, but be aware that that turns you into basically a badass D&D Cleric, mauling things with your melee weapon and buff / heal yourself and others. In heavy plate armor.

[Cristo Meyers]

So, as a total newbie still on his first playthrough with his own mage: what to specialize in? My default party is Leliana, Wynne, Alistair and myself as debuffer/damage dealer. Blood mage is out, I didn't go that way on the question. The other two seem... well, kinda useless.

As in class specializations? Spirit Healer and either of the other two just for the attribute boosts. Blood Mage is the only other decent spec for damage dealing, and it's still pretty sub-par. Nearly all of your spells are going to come from the Mage trees (Cone of Cold, Fireball, the Sleep/Horror combo) anyway, so you may as well take the only specialization that's going to help your party out in case Wynne bites it.

[ZeltArruin]

They may do more damage per swing than a dual-wielder, but the dual wielder gets 4+ swings in the same amount of time which means they have more than double the damage output (assuming you're running mod-free).

Thats why I have a mage run haste and use swift salves, makes attacking much, much faster. I think the total haste rating, or whatever you call it, is .45, so .5 less than the cap, pretty good, I'd wager. It also makes my damage on the character page higher than the dual-wielder's combined damage.

[FoE]

I love Morrigan to bits, but she's pretty evil. She has a softer side — she supports releasing Sten and Jowan — and she does have a point about being too altruistic and wasting your time and resources helping people. But there are a few times where she clearly delights in the suffering of others. She's a lightweight compared to her mother, though.

As for her "usefulness," Morrigan served as one of my party's heavy hitters. I don't think I could have gotten through that blood mage compound in Denerim without her in the party.

[mangosta71]

Thats why I have a mage run haste and use swift salves, makes attacking much, much faster. I think the total haste rating, or whatever you call it, is .45, so .5 less than the cap, pretty good, I'd wager. It also makes my damage on the character page higher than the dual-wielder's combined damage.

But you can do that with the dual wielder, too. Ever seen a guy popping swift salves like a crack addict while running momentum and dualing daggers with a mage keeping haste up? The speed increase is proportionally the same, so their dps goes up by the same percentage, and again he leaves the warrior with his big slow two-hander in the dust.


I love Morrigan to bits, but she's pretty evil. She has a softer side — she supports releasing Sten and Jowan — and she does have a point about being too altruistic and wasting your time and resources helping people. But there are a few times where she clearly delights in the suffering of others. She's a lightweight compared to her mother, though.

As for her "usefulness," Morrigan served as one of my party's heavy hitters. I don't think I could have gotten through that blood mage compound in Denerim without her in the party.

The secret is to get her Virulent Walking Bomb and Mana Clash. The enemies that cluster around your group get swept away, and she one-shots enemy casters.

[FoE]

The, how you say, trailer for Leliana's Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LfZAIaMzPI) is out? Yes?

My initial thought is that it looks ... promising.

On one hand, I'm not looking forward to enduring Marjolaine's presence, and I'm slightly disappointed that we're back in Ferelden as opposed to Orlais.

On the other hand, the article I read on IGN says it provides a rogue-only item (YES! ROGUES NEED MORE LOVE!) and a dialogue system that's somewhat akin to Mass Effect.

Oh, it is so strange to see Leliana with different hair. But those eyes and those lips and the voice are the same.

[Arcanoi]

I wish they'd take any sort of effort they put into Leliana's Song and give us a Return To Ostagar that didn't make me want to vomit all over it.

[The Rose Dragon]

Buh-buh-whuh?

Leliana as a dual-wielder instead of an archer?

WHYYYYYYYYY?!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Dammit! I just kicked my Dragon Age habit! I wanna have it wrapped up so I can finish Mass Effect and start Mass Effect 2!!! AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

[FoE]

Buh-buh-whuh?

Leliana as a dual-wielder instead of an archer?

WHYYYYYYYYY?!

And she's dual-wielding SWORDS too! O_O

To be fair, you can build her as a pretty fair dual-wielding rogue.


Dammit! I just kicked my Dragon Age habit! I wanna have it wrapped up so I can finish Mass Effect and start Mass Effect 2!!! AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

Every time I think I'm out, THEY KEEP PULLING ME BACK IN!

[The Rose Dragon]

Well, Mass Effect is highly addictive. I still haven't gotten around to finishing Awakening because of it.

I haven't even installed Tiberium Twilight, either.


And she's dual-wielding SWORDS too!

To be fair, you can build her as a pretty fair dual-wielding rogue.

And not use the awesome Marjolaine's Recurve?

Besides, she's already a bard. Bards don't work well as scrappers, in my experience (which is apparently not necessarily representative of the whole).

[FoE]

And not use the awesome Marjolaine's Recurve?

Ah, but the item description said Leliana always coveted the bow, which would imply she never owned it. And even if she had it briefly, Marjolaine must have taken it back, since you pull Marjolaine's Recurve off of Marjolaine's corpse.

(OK, the chest in the next room. But you get the idea.)

On the subject of Marjolaine, I always wondered why that crazy bitch never tried to use a weapon during our fight. Granted, she did a lot of damage with her bare hands, but still ...

[The Rose Dragon]

On the subject of Marjolaine, I always wondered why that crazy bitch never tried to use a weapon during our fight. Granted, she still did a lot of damage with her bare hands, but still ...

I always wondered what kind of awesome stats she had to deal more damage to me unarmed than I could to her as a pimped-out dual-wielder. Was she some kind of badass martial artist? If she was, why didn't we get the option to be an awesome kung-fu master?

[ZeltArruin]

But you can do that with the dual wielder, too. Ever seen a guy popping swift salves like a crack addict while running momentum and dualing daggers with a mage keeping haste up? The speed increase is proportionally the same, so their dps goes up by the same percentage, and again he leaves the warrior with his big slow two-hander in the dust.

I was comparing it to that value already.

[Leon]

Ive been trying to play a Rogue but found that the archetype is rather limited in combat as i don't want to use Dual weapon again so soon after finishing with my Warrior and Archer is a lil boring. This leaves the small selection of non combat style attacks and a lot of auto attacking...

Been thinking of also restarting my Noble Dwarf and going warrior again but as S&B or 2Hander (Current Noble Dwarf is a Rogue but I'm finding it fits better with City Elf)

[Avilan the Grey]

Ive been trying to play a Rogue but found that the archetype is rather limited in combat as i don't want to use Dual weapon again so soon after finishing with my Warrior and Archer is a lil boring. This leaves the small selection of non combat style attacks and a lot of auto attacking...

Been thinking of also restarting my Noble Dwarf and going warrior again but as S&B or 2Hander (Current Noble Dwarf is a Rogue but I'm finding it fits better with City Elf)

Dual-wielding warrior is much less micro-management than the rogue. And you still makes more DPS than a two-hander or a Sword and Board.

[Avilan the Grey]

Just for fun - This is all my characters now, one per origin:

Balor, lvl 2 Dwarf Commoner Dual-wielding Rogue

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4462/balor.jpg http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3913/balorportrait.png

Duran, lvl 2 Dwarf Noble Sword and Board Fighter

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3079/duranl.jpg http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1458/duranportrait.png

Elissa, lvl 2 Human Noble Dual-wielding Warrior

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6295/elissa.jpg http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3656/elissaportrait.png

Kalla, Lvl 2 City Elf Two-handed Warrior

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/768/kallag.jpg http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4752/kallaportrait.png

Therod, Lvl 2 Dalish Elf Bow Rogue

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6573/therod.jpg http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4785/therodportrait.png

Wayne, Lvl 2 Human Mage

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5854/waynesc.jpg http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/503/wayneportrait.png

...Yes, I like bald dwarves. Or rather, I didn't like the look of any of the hairdoos on either of them...

[SolkaTruesilver]

How good is the Arcane Warrior/Blood mage combo?

[Arbitrarity]

Solid. AW means you have a mana "puddle" if you're doing it the strong way (i.e. miasmia, flaming or other weapons, Rock Armor, Combat Magic, Shimmering Shield, Spell Shield?, plus Heavy Armor), and Blood Mage lets you totally ignore that you have next to no mana. Also, best control spell in the game (Blood Pulse).

Better than Spirit Healer, imo, because Group Heal's about the only good thing you'll get to use as a Spirit Healer, since Revive will be out of mana range, and the other powers are useless. And Group Heal, while great, isn't necessary most of the time. If you have Awakening, Battlemage is a good third spec choice.

You'll want strong mana-regen boosters, though. Specifically, Cailain's Arms set (+5.75 mana regen), Anduril's Blessing (effective +2), Wade's Superior Dragonscale using Evon the Great's Mail (+3) (which also has low fatigue).

Longrunner's cap for another 0.5 is optional, you may prefer Helm of Honneleath or similar. Spellward is normal neck slot, and the DLC "The Wicked Oath" ring is also useful, for another 1 regen.
Altogether, the +11.75 from using these items (not including Longrunner's cap), and another +1 from Fade Shroud, completely offsets the -10 penalty for running shimmering shield, giving you the shiny armor and resistance bonuses essentially free.

[SolkaTruesilver]

So it's gonna be me, AW/BM, Leliana ranger/bard ranged. Alistair, Templar/Champion and Wynn spirit healer/blood Mage. Plus Dog.

2+ tanks, 1+ healer/Mage and 1 ranged harasser. Doesn't look bad

[Dienekes]

So it's gonna be me, AW/BM, Leliana ranger/bard ranged. Alistair, Templar/Champion and Wynn spirit healer/blood Mage. Plus Dog.

2+ tanks, 1+ healer/Mage and 1 ranged harasser. Doesn't look bad

2 mages? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Honestly though, that's a very powerful group you got there. You should have no trouble with the game at all once you get the hang of it and develop sufficient strategies.

[SolkaTruesilver]

2 mages? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Honestly though, that's a very powerful group you got there. You should have no trouble with the game at all once you get the hang of it and develop sufficient strategies.

I know 2 mages is cheesy, which is why I'm gonna be using my crusading girl as a frontline warrior too. Wynn can fireball from afar :smalltongue:

I'm gonna put the difficulty up at "high". Maybe that's gonna compensate for the overly strong group I put together.

[Zevox]

On the other hand, the article I read on IGN says it provides [...] a dialogue system that's somewhat akin to Mass Effect.
Er, in what sense?

Is it because it's displayed on some circular interface? If so, I don't see why that'd matter.

...or are they saying it'll be tied to some sort of alignment system the way Mass Effect's is? I really hope that isn't the case, as the lack of that in Dragon Age was a very good move in my opinion, so introducing one, even just in an expansion, strikes me as a pretty bad move.

Zevox

[FoE]

Er, in what sense?

Is it because it's displayed on some circular interface? If so, I don't see why that'd matter.

...or are they saying it'll be tied to some sort of alignment system the way Mass Effect's is? I really hope that isn't the case, as the lack of that in Dragon Age was a very good move in my opinion, so introducing one, even just in an expansion, strikes me as a pretty bad move.

Apparently Leliana will be able to speak. You'll choose Dialogue Option A ("Suited life sounds difficult.") and Leliana will actually say something in accordance with that option. ("I don't know if I could live inside a suit my whole life.") She won't be an entirely silent protagonist.

[Zevox]

Apparently Leliana will be able to speak. You'll choose Dialogue Option A ("Suited life sounds difficult.") and Leliana will actually say something in accordance with that option. ("I don't know if I could live inside a suit my whole life.") She won't be an entirely silent protagonist.
So basically they're just not going to abandon having her voice-acted. Don't know why they'd compare that to Mass Effect, considering she was already voice-acted in the main game, but I guess it's good to know, even though I wouldn't have expected them to do otherwise.

Zevox

[Dienekes]

The only problem with the Lel's Song that I can see is that I have the desire to play one with all of the companions.

[Arbitrarity]

Dragon Age: Origins: Origins. $30. Contains origin stories for every companion and many major characters in DA:O. 40+ hours of gameplay.

That would be awesome. Play as Sten, before he sets out to find what the Blight is. Collapse in battle. Murder the farmers. Get put in a cage.

Play as Morrigan... cook stew for Flemeth?
Ok, that sucks.

Wynne, Shale, Alistair, Zevran, Oghren (wrestle a Nug!), all have potential though.

[Cespenar]

I know 2 mages is cheesy, which is why I'm gonna be using my crusading girl as a frontline warrior too. Wynn can fireball from afar :smalltongue:

I'm gonna put the difficulty up at "high". Maybe that's gonna compensate for the overly strong group I put together.

Hard difficulty makes up for having two mages in the group. I played it that way on my first go, and it felt quite normal. You kick quite a few butts with your crazy magic skills, but some of the bosses can still create a hard time for you.

And by the way, no matter what anyone else says, Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana feels like the real canon party. :smallbiggrin:

[Dienekes]

I don't know, I think Morrigan could potentially be the best.

The way I see them.
Morrigan= could be used to give deeper insight to Flemeth and show the eldritch terrors with demons and maybe shed some light into exactly what she knew about the dark ritual.

Sten= more militaristic, shows the true terrible meaning of lawful evil as well as shedding some light on Quinari society, or at least observing it in both it's practicality and it's monstrosity.

Zevran= planning and committing assassinations, always fun. Also the women he is sorry for murdering.

Shale= I definitely would like to see a creation story of what led her to become a golem. Probably the most open of the origins, as we have little data on her life.

Oghren= life with Branka, why she ditched him, and it'd be fun to see how the entire dwarven society quickly looses all respect for him.

Alistair= Early adventures with Duncan could be fleshed out and be cool.

Wynne= More detail on the factionalism of the tower and how she fit in with everything.

I dunno, I'd play those games

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Something that bugs me about Wynne. I remember reading somewhere that Innes the Botanist, in the Awakening quest of the same name, sheds some insight into why Uldred's rebellion took place, but when I met Innes, all she seemed to say to that effect was less an insight into Uldred or the situation in the tower and more like derision of Wynne's personality. Is there anything Innes says that lends some insight into the world of mages? Perhaps I need to talk to her as a mage myself (Warrior on the first playthrough)? Was I fooled by more "guide lies," as Trixie would say?

[The Rose Dragon]

And by the way, no matter what anyone else says, Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana feels like the real canon party. :smallbiggrin:

The canon party is probably Morrigan, Leliana and Sten, due to that one video. I can't recall the name or give a link since I can't enter YouTube right now, but that video has those three and a human warrior Grey Warden.

[Cespenar]

I don't know about the video, but comparing the amount the characters contribute to the story, I'm pretty sure the designers would expect Alistair to be chosen as your companion instead of Sten.

[Leon]

I decided to stick with the Weapon and Shield rogue a bit more - its now quite decent ive picked up Assassination specialization, a sword that trumps the heck out of the dagger i was using (Starfang) and Shale is my Ubertank, Lelianna is my long range single target damage, Morrigan my long range AoE/Debuff/Buff

[FoE]

Something that bugs me about Wynne. I remember reading somewhere that Innes the Botanist, in the Awakening quest of the same name, sheds some insight into why Uldred's rebellion took place, but when I met Innes, all she seemed to say to that effect was less an insight into Uldred or the situation in the tower and more like derision of Wynne's personality. Is there anything Innes says that lends some insight into the world of mages? Perhaps I need to talk to her as a mage myself (Warrior on the first playthrough)?

I thought the rebellion at the Circle of Magi tower was fairly self-explanatory.

Uldred and a number of mages — Libertarians, mostly — were training secretly in blood magic in the event that they needed to launch a coup. (It helped that Irving relied on Uldred to “identify” mages with a predilection for blood magic.) Uldred then struck a bargain with Teryn Loghain to gain the Circle's independence if they backed him, but Wynne threw a spanner in the works when she survived Ostagar and told the other mages about what Loghain did. When Irving confronted Uldred, he panicked and his compatriots tried to take the tower by force.

However, Uldred made the mistake of summoning a demon that he couldn’t control and it turned him into an abomination. The Uldred/Pride Abomination then began summoning other demons in order to build an army. Unfortunately for them, the other blood mages were also targeted for possession. The result was basically a three-way conflict between the Circle's loyal mages, the blood mages and the abominations.

I think Ines is just being a whiner when she bitches about Wynne and Uldred.

[Avilan the Grey]

I thought the rebellion at the Circle of Magi tower was fairly self-explanatory.

Uldred and a number of mages — Libertarians, mostly — were training secretly in blood magic in the event that they needed to launch a coup. (It helped that Irving relied on Uldred to “identify” mages with a predilection for blood magic.) Uldred then struck a bargain with Teryn Loghain to gain the Circle's independence if they backed him, but Wynne threw a spanner in the works when she survived Ostagar and told the other mages about what Loghain did. When Irving confronted Uldred, he panicked and his compatriots tried to take the tower by force.

However, Uldred made the mistake of summoning a demon that he couldn’t control and it turned him into an abomination. The Uldred/Pride Abomination then began summoning other demons in order to build an army. Unfortunately for them, the other blood mages were also targeted for possession. The result was basically a three-way between the Circle's loyal mages, the blood mages and the abominations.

I think Ines is just being a whiner when she bitches about Wynne and Uldred.

Also, to top this, if you play the Mage origin, I suspect your friends from the Fade are the demons involved. The pride demon that doesn't push the issue when you deny him your body in the Harrowing, is probably the one that Uldred struck a deal with and the Sloth demon named Sloth, would be the Sloth demon...

[FoE]

Also, to top this, if you play the Mage origin, I suspect your friends from the Fade are the demons involved. The pride demon that doesn't push the issue when you deny him your body in the Harrowing, is probably the one that Uldred struck a deal with and the Sloth demon named Sloth, would be the Sloth demon...

Entirely possible, though I'll note that the Sloth Demon from the Magi Origin and the Sloth Demon from Broken Circle do sound different.

[Kish]

Entirely possible, though I'll note that the Sloth Demon from the Magi Origin and the Sloth Demon from Broken Circle do sound different.
Different when you meet him on the material plane or at the end of his own section of the Fade, vs. when you meet him in the form of a bear during the mage PC's test? You should hear him in the shower.

[SolkaTruesilver]

All right. I just bought Awakening on Steam, and I will go and buy every single DLC availalbe right away.

I want to know. I just finished (Without confirming the acquisition of my new allies yet) the Elf/Werewolves questline, and it was the last allies I needed to gather. If I want to play all the DLC that I am entitled, is it too late, or I can fireup all these quests in a row without thinking too much about it?

[Douglas]

You can go ahead and do all the DLC now. The one you have to watch out for is going back to Redcliffe after calling the Landsmeet. I'd suggest doing every sidequest you intend to (except the ones that require entering the Alienage, and some of those have parts done elsewhere) before you call the Landsmeet, which happens only when you go talk with Arl Eamon and tell him you're ready.

[Avilan the Grey]

Entirely possible, though I'll note that the Sloth Demon from the Magi Origin and the Sloth Demon from Broken Circle do sound different.

Well what I gather is that they have a neat little plan going. I have a feeling they are far more organized than the Circle thinks they are.

[Kish]

Of course, they still failed, even before the PC gets there. Either possible outcome--the Circle gets rescued, or the tower gets depopulated by frenzied templars--would be a loss for the demons.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I thought the rebellion at the Circle of Magi tower was fairly self-explanatory.

Uldred and a number of mages — Libertarians, mostly — were training secretly in blood magic in the event that they needed to launch a coup. (It helped that Irving relied on Uldred to “identify” mages with a predilection for blood magic.) Uldred then struck a bargain with Teryn Loghain to gain the Circle's independence if they backed him, but Wynne threw a spanner in the works when she survived Ostagar and told the other mages about what Loghain did. When Irving confronted Uldred, he panicked and his compatriots tried to take the tower by force.

However, Uldred made the mistake of summoning a demon that he couldn’t control and it turned him into an abomination. The Uldred/Pride Abomination then began summoning other demons in order to build an army. Unfortunately for them, the other blood mages were also targeted for possession. The result was basically a three-way conflict between the Circle's loyal mages, the blood mages and the abominations.

I think Ines is just being a whiner when she bitches about Wynne and Uldred.

So why would she bitch about Uldred at all if she doesn't have any insight anyway?

[Leon]

All right. I just bought Awakening on Steam, and I will go and buy every single DLC availalbe right away.

I want to know. I just finished (Without confirming the acquisition of my new allies yet) the Elf/Werewolves questline, and it was the last allies I needed to gather. If I want to play all the DLC that I am entitled, is it too late, or I can fireup all these quests in a row without thinking too much about it?

I did all the DLC at Lvl 19, just prior to starting the endgame up. I was delaying finishing the game till i could get them to work.

[Arcanoi]

Is Awakening actually worth it? I'm pretty much done with all the content I can think to do in the Vanilla, but due to the quality of some of the DLC I've been rather hesitant to buy it. What say thee, forum?

[Kish]

No, it really isn't.

[Comet]

No, it really isn't.

I'd say it really is. Opinions, who'd have thunk it?

[Kish]

Wow, you're the first person I've heard actually say anything positive about Awakening. :smalltongue:

(And no, that's not meant to score points or say your opinion is invalid. I just mean exactly what I said, that "Awakening is a massive disappointment" just stopped being one of the very few things that was universally agreed upon by everyone who expressed an opinion where I could see or hear them.)

[Zevox]

I'd say Awakening is plenty worth getting, but perhaps not at the original purchase price of $40. Don't know if it has dropped yet, but I'd peg the actual worth, to me, at around half that, maybe a little more. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just too short for the price they asked.

Zevox

[Comet]

Wow, you're the first person I've heard actually say anything positive about Awakening. :smalltongue:


It seems to be dividing opinions pretty hard, for sure. Still, I had plenty of fun with it.



I'd say Awakening is plenty worth getting, but perhaps not at the original purchase price of $40. Don't know if it has dropped yet, but I'd peg the actual worth, to me, at around half that, maybe a little more. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just too short for the price they asked.

Zevox

That's very true. It's a good enough expansion but a bit light compared to the original game.

[SolkaTruesilver]

That's very true. It's a good enough expansion but a bit light compared to the original game.

Can you name me one game that doens't come off a bit light compared to Dragon Age vanilla?

[Calemyr]

Can you name me one game that doens't come off a bit light compared to Dragon Age vanilla?

Baldur's Gate 2.

On the topic of Awakenings, the game is a bit short and a bit simplified, which is, in turn, a bit annoying. The limited interaction with allies (conversations are instigated over conversation pieces rather than talking to them and no real campfire conversation) is probably my biggest gripe, and the fact that they once again gave the only impressive armor to the Massive set, but it's actually pretty good. Interesting characters, interesting plot, a couple really badass bosses... and even more broken than before. Seriously. My Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer/Battlemage soloed the bonus boss - mainly because nobody else could stand it.

The new skills range as wildly in usefulness as the original game, and includes some much needed skills as well as the stamina potions. I downloaded a mod that moved the Awakenings material to Origins, as well. This didn't help much with the skills and talents (most aren't available until after 20th level), but the presence of stamina potions in the random loot tables was very nice.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Baldur's Gate 2.


....

All right. Name 2.

My meaning is, Dragon Age was that good and filled, it's hard to have anything as filled as it was. As long as the NEXT game in the Dragon Age serie will be as filled as the original, I'm okay with a shorter expension pack.

Anything good added in term of abilities?

[FoE]

Haven't played the expansion yet. Got it, haven't played it yet.

Now that I have this fancy XBox Live that's popular with the young folk these days, I'm trying out the DLC.

HOLY CRAP ON A STICK, Honnleath is going to be harder than I thought. I was not expecting such big mobs of darkspawn.

[The Rose Dragon]

....

All right. Name 2.

Planescape: Torment.

Well, that was easy.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Planescape: Torment.

Well, that was easy.

Has any of those two game had expention pack that you could claim had as much material as the core game?

Ooops.. nevermind. They never bothered making an expension for Planescape Torment.

[The Rose Dragon]

Has any of those two game had expention pack that you could claim had as much material as the core game?

Ooops.. nevermind. They never bothered making an expension for Planescape Torment.

You never mentioned an expansion pack coming off as a bit light compared to Dragon Age vanilla. You just mentioned a game.

It's not my fault you were so bad at communicating yourself.

[SolkaTruesilver]

You never mentioned an expansion pack coming off as a bit light compared to Dragon Age vanilla. You just mentioned a game.

It's not my fault you were so bad at communicating yourself.

You missed the whole point. It's not my fault that you're not even trying.

The initial beef was that Dragon Age's expansion pack wasn't as filled as the original game, which might be a real beef. However, it's hard to find games that are as packed as Dragon Age vanilla, and even those game never had expension pack of their own as filled as the vanilla game.

There, spelled it out for you. Don't you feel dandy?

[FoE]

STOP IT! STOP IT! I HATE IT WHEN YOU GUYS FIGHT!

*Runs up to room crying*

OK, so here's a weird thing: after dealing with Connor in Redcliffe, I tried giving the Green Blade back to Caitlin. But even if I choose those dialogue options, the Green Blade remains in my inventory. Anyone else notice that?

[Douglas]

Yes, I was surprised by that too. The dialog related to it in the game epilogue gets it right, though, telling about how the kid went on to become a hero wielding that sword, proudly telling about the time the Hero of Ferelden had borrowed it to save Redcliffe. I ended up "giving" it back and then selling it as inferior junk compared to my real gear, and I still got that part of the ending.

[FoE]

Yes, I was surprised by that too. The dialog related to it in the game epilogue gets it right, though, telling about how the kid went on to become a hero wielding that sword, proudly telling about the time the Hero of Ferelden had borrowed it to save Redcliffe. I ended up "giving" it back and then selling it as inferior junk compared to my real gear, and I still got that part of the ending.

Out of a sense of fairness, I put the sword in my trash and destroyed it.

The game isn't good at "taking" stuff from you. The corpse galls also remained in my inventory all game.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Out of a sense of fairness, I put the sword in my trash and destroyed it.

The game isn't good at "taking" stuff from you. The corpse galls also remained in my inventory all game.

I don't mind it that much. Except when they take inventory slots.

[Zevox]

Can you name me one game that doens't come off a bit light compared to Dragon Age vanilla?
Persona 3. Persona 4. Dragon Quest 8. Tales of Vesperia. Tales of Symphonia. Mass Effect 1 & 2. Disgaea 1 & 2 (probably 3, but I haven't played it).

Most good RPGs, really.

Dragon Age isn't really a particularly lengthy game for an RPG - just to take two of the games mentioned above, I logged over 100 hours each on my first play alone of Persona 3 and Dragon Quest 8, compared to something more like 40-some hours on one play through of Dragon Age (can't check the exact number right now - my 360 controller's batteries are dead and I'm out of AAs to replace them with for the moment). Now, that 40-some hours is still quite good, pretty much the average for good RPGs, but it's not exceptional.

And Awakening is fairly light for the price. Its duration on a first play is maybe 15 hours or so (again, can't check the exact number I had right now), at a $40 cost - less than half the time you'll log on a first play of Dragon Age proper, at 2/3 the cost of the main game (at least with console prices for each - don't know the PC prices).

Again, it's still a good 15 or so hours, but it is priced high for the amount of play time its content nets you.

Zevox

[SolkaTruesilver]

Persona 3. Persona 4. Dragon Quest 8. Tales of Vesperia. Tales of Symphonia. Mass Effect 1 & 2. Disgaea 1 & 2 (probably 3, but I haven't played it).

Most good RPGs, really.

Dragon Age isn't really a particularly lengthy game for an RPG - just to take two of the games mentioned above, I logged over 100 hours each on my first play alone of Persona 3 and Dragon Quest 8, compared to something more like 40-some hours on one play through of Dragon Age (can't check the exact number right now - my 360 controller's batteries are dead and I'm out of AAs to replace them with for the moment). Now, that 40-some hours is still quite good, pretty much the average for good RPGs, but it's not exceptional.

And Awakening is fairly light for the price. Its duration on a first play is maybe 15 hours or so (again, can't check the exact number I had right now), at a $40 cost - less than half the time you'll log on a first play of Dragon Age proper, at 2/3 the cost of the main game (at least with console prices for each - don't know the PC prices).

Again, it's still a good 15 or so hours, but it is priced high for the amount of play time its content nets you.

Zevox

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Now that's good Market Intelligence! :smalltongue:

How would you feel if I ask you about other video games, seeking you leveraging your personnal skills/knowledges? :smallredface:

[arguskos]

Btws, before you get all high and mighty again (:smalltongue:), Baldur's Gate 2 HAS an Expansion (Throne of Bhaal) that is at least another 15-20 hours of playtime, depending on your speed or proficiency at playing (along with some stupidly unfair and brutally hard fights >_<).

Seriously dude, Dragon Age, while fun, was not among the longest games I've ever played, or even LOOKED at. It's fun and a decent length, but if you want a marathon game, there's tons more out there you need to go check out. :smallwink:

[Kris Strife]

Seriously dude, Dragon Age, while fun, was not among the longest games I've ever played, or even LOOKED at. It's fun and a decent length, but if you want a marathon game, there's tons more out there you need to go check out. :smallwink:

Disgaea Trilogy, all hidden characters unlocked, all bosses beaten, all level 9999. :smallamused:

[arguskos]

Disgaea Trilogy, all hidden characters unlocked, all bosses beaten, all level 9999. :smallamused:
I'll bet I've STILL sunk more hours into BG2 in my life. :smalltongue:

Then again, I'm a BG2 junkie. :smallamused:

[Kris Strife]

I'll bet I've STILL sunk more hours into BG2 in my life. :smalltongue:

Then again, I'm a BG2 junkie. :smallamused:

But have you done every thing in BG2? Notice, I didn't mention getting all the endings, or that you had to clear the bonus levels that don't give you extra characters or lead to a boss fight, or that you had to reincarnate, unlock every character class and every form of every character class.

[arguskos]

But have you done every thing in BG2? Notice, I didn't mention getting all the endings, or that you had to clear the bonus levels that don't give you extra characters or lead to a boss fight, or that you had to reincarnate, unlock every character class and every form of every character class.
There's always more my friend, always more. Unless what you're talking about is over 10,000-15,000 hours of unique play, I've got it down.

In other news, I need a life. :smallsigh:

Or another game that good. :smallamused:

[Kris Strife]

There's always more my friend, always more. Unless what you're talking about is over 10,000-15,000 hours of unique play, I've got it down.

In other news, I need a life. :smallsigh:

Or another game that good. :smallamused:

Every item is a 30-100 level randomly generated dungeon. Every floor you clear makes the item more powerful.

Edit: In three, so is every character.

[SolkaTruesilver]

There's always more my friend, always more. Unless what you're talking about is over 10,000-15,000 hours of unique play, I've got it down.

In other news, I need a life. :smallsigh:

Or another game that good. :smallamused:

You want something always new, yet always the same?

Try spending a few thousand of hours on Angband. :smalleek:

[Zevox]

How would you feel if I ask you about other video games, seeking you leveraging your personnal skills/knowledges? :smallredface:
That depends on what, exactly, that actually means, as I'm not sure what you're asking.


Disgaea Trilogy, all hidden characters unlocked, all bosses beaten, all level 9999. :smallamused:
Note: it is not recommended that anyone with anything they wish to do with their life attempt this feat unless they like the idea of playing the same games until they're in their 50s.

Zevox

[Kris Strife]

Note: it is not recommended that anyone with anything they wish to do with their life attempt this feat unless they like the idea of playing the same games until they're in their 50s.

If you decide to do EVERYTHING in all three games, your grandkids might finish it for you.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well so far I have learned the following: Sword and Board is boring! And playing a mage was more fun than I thought. My Dwarven Noble will therefore be the fist to go; I will eventually finish the game as one but I will have to pick a different specialization for him or her then.

[Scorpina]

Of course Sword and Board is boring! It's always boring, no matter what game you're playing.

Also, I found it much, much more fun to play as a Mage than anything else. Seriously, being able to knock people down with my Shield as a Warrior or kick them in the crotch as a Rogue is nowhere near as fun as being able to freeze them with a Cone of Cold and then shatter them with Stonefist.

[Cespenar]

You want something always new, yet always the same?

Try spending a few thousand of hours on Angband. :smalleek:

Or ADOM, if you want your few thousand hours to be actually fun. And pain. But mostly fun. :smalltongue:

[Calemyr]

Anything good added in term of abilities?

First, I want to apologize for the trouble my smart ass remark seems to have started.

Anyway, there's a new talent line for each weapon style and class set. One of the ones that caught my attention are the warrior's Second Wind, which recharges their stamina. Pretty nice, really. Mages, on the other hand, gain two lines - and the two talents that catch in my mind are Elemental Mastery (extra damage to all fire/lightning/cold damage) and Fade Shroud (which gives you an evasion chance against all forms of attack while using Arcane Shield as well as a pretty cool aura and a point of mana regen). I don't remember whether it's a twin blade or rogue talent, but there's also a talent called Blink, which attacks everyone in an area at once.

The new skills are pretty obvious. Runecrafting allows you to upgrade runes you come across, as well as create a set of unique ones with some interesting abilities. It also includes armor runes, which was a much needed addition. The other two lines increase health and stamina/mana respectively. Nothing brilliant, but a pretty solid boost.

The specializations are the typical mixed bag:

Mage:
Battlemage: More or less a must have. A quick, discriminating (no friendly fire) AoE centered around you with heavy frost damage? An aura that does constant discriminating aoe damage to everything around you? Another that drains enemy health and gives it to you? Finally, a talent that turns physical damage into mana? Yeah, battlemages rule.

Keeper: The high mages of the Dalish aren't overwhelmingly impressive. While effective, all of their powers are based around a talent that roots you to the ground and turns the terrain around you against the enemy, with all other talents augmenting this with other effects. Of course, mobility is an important thing in a mage (arcane warrior or no) and that hurts this spec immensely.

Rogue:
Shadow: Basically a class that augments stealth and backstabbing. Pretty decent, but the two rogues in the expansion are an archer (no backstab) or a fairly warrior-like twinblade. As such, it's hard to take full advantage out of this one without playing a rogue yourself.

Legionaire: Impressive boosts to strength and endurance, combined with talents that make you resistant to magic, resistant to damage, or redirect damage to your stamina pool first. Legionaire does not go for anything flashy, just a ridiculous amount of survivability.

Warrior:
Guardian: Mostly focused on supporting allies, mainly by getting between them and attackers. Good for a sword&board tank, but generally a waste of stamina for other types.

Spirit Warrior: The closest a warrior gets to a mage. Several nice goodies here, but most notable are the ability to make all physical damage into spirit damage instead and an increase in attack speed - a much needed boon for two handed weapon users.

The game is shorter than DA and follows the typical Bioware format: First stage that exists mainly to introduce a few characters and get you used to the style of combat, then four stages that can be tackled in any order but you are generally boned if you don't use the 'right' order, then a stage with heavy effect on the plot, and then the final dungeon. The story is interesting and can change your perspective on the original game a little.

The game is a bit buggy. If you collect your allies in the wrong order, you may not be able to turn all of them into grey wardens, and, for some inexplicable reason, it is possible to get a massive boost in loyalty from an ally (i.e. straight to 100), but never get the related stat boosts. Also, one stage attempts to strip your party of their gear and if it fails the gear it does take becomes lost forever. That said, there isn't any stages as load-intensive as Orgrimmar, which is a blessing in itself, and all the stages have interesting aspects to them.

And if you're curious about the party:

Note: There is a manual sold in the Keep that allows you to respec anyone who uses it. As such, you can remodel just about anyone you like.

Mairhi: A standard sword&board warrior with the ambition to become a Grey Warden and with the PC from the start. She's a nice girl and a useful ally, but doesn't really stand out all that much.

Ohgren: You know him, you lo-tolerate him. The drunken berserker is back, fresh from a two year retirement with his new wife, and looking for more action. If you've played Origins, you probably know how he handles: brute force, crass humour, and plenty of both.

Justice: A fade spirit (one of the good ones), who assists you in this story's fade level, Justice is rewarded for his dutiful service by getting stranded on the physical plain in the body of a dead man. Not the most attractive of allies (you'll wish they still kept his helmet on during conversation), but a solid Spirit Warrior. For personality and outlook, think of a good-aligned version of Sten: strict, honor-bound, and completely mystified by the culture he finds himself immersed in.

Nathaniel: A rogue archer with a grudge against the Wardens, Nathanial is a decent rogue (archery being what it is), but he can't take advantage of the Shadow spec that seems to have been designed for him, thanks to archery being unable to backstab.

Sigrid: A scout for the dwarven Legion of the Dead, Sigrid kinda straddles the line between pessimistic fatalism (all Legionaires are taught to consider themselves already dead) and a cute optimism. As a Legionaire, she's about as close to a fighter as a rogue can get.

Anders: A mage who had the misfortune of getting to reach his teen years before being discovered and introduced to the circle, Anders has yearned for the sweet life of freedom ever since, constantly attempting to escape. Not a blood mage or abomination (though you can fix the prior if you like), he just wants freedom. His personality is rather similar to Alistair's, though not nearly as whiny and he isn't the butt of everyone's jokes. Can be given a cat he names Ser Pounce-a-lot, that he keeps with him at all times after that.

Dalish Mage: I wish I could remember her name, but I just don't use her. She's got a similar style of hair, dress, and mindset to Morrigan, combined with a persecution complex that makes her distrust all "shemlen". Blames humans for the abduction of her sister and attempts to go to war with them. She's all right, but Anders is everything she is topped with a nice personality.

The party I took to the end was Anders, Sigrid, and Ohgren. Thanks to the respec manuals, however, none of them is particularly weak for their class.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Sweet, thanks for the description.

If I install Awakening, would I have access to those extra specialisation during vanilla?

'cause that Battlemage build looks nice.

And curses and damnation. I never registered my game. So when I finally installed and registered an account, I lost all of my achivements. I hope I haven't lost my unlocked specialisation :smalleek:

Also, should I buy all the available DLC-quests? Are they worth the money?

[Kish]

Sweet, thanks for the description.

If I install Awakening, would I have access to those extra specialisation during vanilla?
No. Nothing from Awakening applies to anything but Awakening.


Dalish Mage: I wish I could remember her name, but I just don't use her. She's got a similar style of hair, dress, and mindset to Morrigan, combined with a persecution complex that makes her distrust all "shemlen". Blames humans for the abduction of her sister and attempts to go to war with them. She's all right, but Anders is everything she is topped with a nice personality.

:smallannoyed: Her name's Velanna. She's nothing like Anders or Morrigan. You should have stopped after, "...I just don't use her."

[Calemyr]

You don't get the new features in Origins normally. There is a mod at dragonagenexus.com that lets you copy the features over, of course, but they still have high level requirements. The armor runes and stamina potions, however, are added to the random lists and not limited to levels (although you can't runecraft without ingredients only available in Awakenings).

Stone Prisoner: Shale rocks. Point blank, the golem kicks nine kinds of ass. Funny, adaptable, and stylish. A bit weaker at the end game, and reliant on two gear slots (like the dog), but a very good buy. Everything but Shale's equipment carries over into Awakenings.

Warden's Keep: Two free blood-related talents, a tier 8 sword, a party storage chest, and quite possibly the coolest looking suit of armor available. Mildly interesting plot, with some very stupid aspects ("I own the keep, but I can't go inside after finishing the quest? What the Fereldan?") Unfortunately, it doesn't carry over into Awakenings without a mod.

Return to Ostagar: Either the best of the bunch or the worst thing ever, depending on what you want. It's ham-fisted plot is basically an excuse to go on a treasure hunt in the snow-bound ruins of Ostagar, fighting darkspawn and the dead raised by a darkspawn necromancer. It's pretty standard fare, but the gear is actually quite nice. Most notable is the Cailan's Shield/Maric's Blade set. A sword and shield that grant a 5 point mana/stamina regen as a set bonus. This is absolutely ungodly in the hands of an arcane warrior, and the sword looks pretty darn good. Everything from RtO carries over, and nothing really ever rivals that sword and shield. If you're going, make sure to bring Alistair, Wynne, and/or the Champion along with you, as all three have a lot to say. Shale says nothing, however, and most others have two lines at best.

Darkspawn Chronicles: Haven't played it. Rather dumb idea, and after RtO it's hard to be very confident about it. Still, it could be interesting if handled right. Dunno.

Leliana's Song: Hasn't come out yet. I'll probably get it, though, since I'm a sucker for a fiery redhead with a nice accent.

Minor DLC (The Edge, Blood Dragon Armor, etc): Decent mid-grade gear, but nothing really awesome in the endgame. None of it transfers over to Awakenings, either.

@Kish: Perhaps comparing Velana to Morrigan wasn't fair, but she's easily the most pragmatic character in the group, though that isn't really saying much. By comparing her to Anders, I was just saying he's just as good of a mage with a more likeable personality.

[FoE]

Of course Sword and Board is boring! It's always boring, no matter what game you're playing.

Also, I found it much, much more fun to play as a Mage than anything else. Seriously, being able to knock people down with my Shield as a Warrior or kick them in the crotch as a Rogue is nowhere near as fun as being able to freeze them with a Cone of Cold and then shatter them with Stonefist.

I'll grant you that Sword and Board isn't very exciting, but I like being a rogue more than a mage. A mage is so ... impersonal. Unless you go for the Arcane Warrior specialization, you're just standing at the back of the group going PEW-PEW-PEW at the bad guys. And frankly, it feels a bit broken anyway.

You play a dual weapon rogue and you're right up there with the bad guys. You get the coolest kills in the game. The loot is better and it's all about getting the drop on the bad guys. The mage never gets to disappear and re-appear behind a mob of baddies to immediately take out their strongest guy. And since you're bumping up dexterity for practically all of your talents, you're just about as durable as a heavily armoured warrior and have way more options as to what you could be doing. It's pretty cool.


The game is a bit buggy. If you collect your allies in the wrong order, you may not be able to turn all of them into grey wardens, and, for some inexplicable reason, it is possible to get a massive boost in loyalty from an ally (i.e. straight to 100), but never get the related stat boosts. Also, one stage attempts to strip your party of their gear and if it fails the gear it does take becomes lost forever. That said, there isn't any stages as load-intensive as Orgrimmar, which is a blessing in itself, and all the stages have interesting aspects to them.

Supposedly there's a patch in the works to address some of these problems. Have no idea when it drops, though.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I just don't understand why they wouldn't allow you to keep your inventory storing space during Awakening... :smallfurious:

[Calemyr]

Your inventory size (collected backpacks) and inventory are kept for an imported character. Some of the DLC items, however, just disappear when you import them. And since the Warden's Keep in the DLC is not the Amaranthine keep in Awakenings, the chest doesn't stick around.

Also, if you decide to make a new character, you can also play an Orlesian warden. Like in Origins, this will have an impact on what people have to say to you, and it generally will not be the same kind of hero worship a Fereldan warden would recieve.

[Zevox]

Of course Sword and Board is boring! It's always boring, no matter what game you're playing.
I believe this guy would like a word with you:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fi/thumb/4/48/LinkTP.jpg/250px-LinkTP.jpg
Or would, if he ever spoke, anyway.

Zevox

[Scorpina]

Yeah, Link is boring.

...what?

[ZeltArruin]

Minor DLC (The Edge, Blood Dragon Armor, etc): Decent mid-grade gear, but nothing really awesome in the endgame. None of it transfers over to Awakenings, either.

Alternatively, if you have the un-'fixed' blood dragon armour, it is pretty much the best second skin armour you can wear, of course, you would have had to have gotten the game in november of last year to have the awesome version. In addition, the edge is the second best dagger in the game, second to the roses thorn, how is that only mid-grade?

Edit: In the expansion, which you may have been talking about, there are better daggers, and I guess armour too.

Lastly, the first talent on the archer line that showed up in Awakenings turns rogue archers into gods.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Yeah, Link is boring.

...what?

Link. Arthur. Roland. Charlemagne. Richard. Jeanne d'Arc. Bruenor Battlehammer.

Plus a few others I don't remember out of hand. Sword and Shield's plain and ultimate practicality is often forgotten for the coolz Dual-Weild or Two-handed.

[Scorpina]

Link. Arthur. Roland. Charlemagne. Richard. Jeanne d'Arc. Bruenor Battlehammer.

Plus a few others I don't remember out of hand. Sword and Shield's plain and ultimate practicality is often forgotten for the coolz Dual-Weild or Two-handed.

All those people/characters are interesting (if they are interesting) for reasons completely other than their choice in weaponry, though.

[SolkaTruesilver]

All those people/characters are interesting (if they are interesting) for reasons completely other than their choice in weaponry, though.

Point conceded.

Still. A good Sword & Shield (or anything & Shield) is, I believe, more interesting than most other build. You can always not use the shield and simply swing your longsword around like a 2-handed swords, and revert back to shield when you need to be more defensive.

Oh, and it protects against arrows.

[Avilan the Grey]

Point conceded.

Still. A good Sword & Shield (or anything & Shield) is, I believe, more interesting than most other build. You can always not use the shield and simply swing your longsword around like a 2-handed swords, and revert back to shield when you need to be more defensive.

Oh, and it protects against arrows.

The thing is that my single favorite sound effect and animation in the game is the simple shield bash one.

[SolkaTruesilver]

The thing is that my single favorite sound effect and animation in the game is the simple shield bash one.

I like the one where you pummel at the ennemy with it.

And, as the rightful (but betrayed) Heir of the Aeducan clan, how can I NOT carry the Aeducan Shield into battle?

Yhea, I know it's not the best shield around. Ask me if I care.

[Zevox]

Yeah, Link is boring.

...what?
*slap* BLASPHEMY!

Now, go play Ocarina of Time as your penance, and do not return until you have at least hit adulthood :smallmad: .

Zevox

[SolkaTruesilver]

*slap* BLASPHEMY!

Now, go play Ocarina of Time as your penance, and do not return until you have at least hit adulthood :smallmad: .

Zevox

Either your's, or Link's.

[Scorpina]

Point conceded.

Still. A good Sword & Shield (or anything & Shield) is, I believe, more interesting than most other build. You can always not use the shield and simply swing your longsword around like a 2-handed swords, and revert back to shield when you need to be more defensive.

Oh, and it protects against arrows.

I never said it didn't work.


*slap* BLASPHEMY!

Now, go play Ocarina of Time as your penance, and do not return until you have at least hit adulthood :smallmad: .

Zevox

I own neither the game nor the machine to run it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, narrowed it down to three out of six origins and character types:

Human dual-wielding warrior
Elven mage
Dwarven archer rogue

[SolkaTruesilver]

Okay, narrowed it down to three out of six origins and character types:

Human dual-wielding warrior
Elven mage
Dwarven archer rogue

You haven't said what would be the origin story of your Dwarf.

[Dacia Brabant]

Yeah, Link is boring.

...what?

Link: "Well excuuuuuuuuse me, princess!"


(Sorry, couldn't resist. :smallbiggrin:)

Also, a sword-and-board Crusader (D&D 3.5) can be a lot of fun to play.

[BarbarianNina]

Has anyone else been impressed, on a replay, by how different the same scene feels depending on your character's perspective?

Spoilers related to Redcliff:
When my mage character encountered the whole fiasco with Eamon's family she was sympathetic. She was impressed by Teagan's loyalty (and it made her long for a family of her own) and while she found Isolde irritating, she sympathized with what she was trying to do. She decided to take the third option because she was a mage, and fixing things with sheer determination is what she does.

My human noble, on the other hand, disliked Isolde from the first time he laid eyes on her. I expected him to be shamed by Teagan's courage, but instead he thought Teagan was being an idiot. Once he found out what was going on, he was utterly appalled and disgusted with Isolde, and decided to take the third option out of a combination of practicality (not to anger a potential ally) and a firm belief that anything Isolde thought was a good idea clearly wasn't. I believe he thought "no wonder we kicked the Orlesians out."


So-- same situation, same decision, similar alignments, but almost totally different reactions. It didn't feel like I was playing the same scene over at all. And I myself feel much more hostile toward Isolde (who, yes, I know, is made of pixels and a voice-over) than I did the first time I dealt with her.

And on the other hand, I get attached to characters. After romancing Zevran, I doubt I'll EVER play a character who kills him (not that I would anyway; he's too darn funny to kill).

[SolkaTruesilver]

Has anyone else been impressed, on a replay, by how different the same scene feels depending on your character's perspective?

Spoilers related to Redcliff:
When my mage character encountered the whole fiasco with Eamon's family she was sympathetic. She was impressed by Teagan's loyalty (and it made her long for a family of her own) and while she found Isolde irritating, she sympathized with what she was trying to do. She decided to take the third option because she was a mage, and fixing things with sheer determination is what she does.

My human noble, on the other hand, disliked Isolde from the first time he laid eyes on her. I expected him to be shamed by Teagan's courage, but instead he thought Teagan was being an idiot. Once he found out what was going on, he was utterly appalled and disgusted with Isolde, and decided to take the third option out of a combination of practicality (not to anger a potential ally) and a firm belief that anything Isolde thought was a good idea clearly wasn't. I believe he thought "no wonder we kicked the Orlesians out."



My Dwarven Opportunistic Noble thought that if Isolde wanted to die, then let her die. There was no other way anyway, since I killed all mages in the Circle.

But on the other hand, I wanted Teagan to be allowed to go. He respected his word, and stood up when he could have fled. Plus, he was a powerful mage that I could have used for my own purposes. Specially with all the mages out, it wouldn't have hurt to round up a few blood mages to have some arcane firepower against the Darkspawns.

[ZeltArruin]

Teagan was not the blood mage, that was Jowan.

[Kish]

My Dwarven Opportunistic Noble thought that if Isolde wanted to die, then let her die. There was no other way anyway, since I killed all mages in the Circle.

But on the other hand, I wanted Teagan to be allowed to go. He respected his word, and stood up when he could have fled. Plus, he was a powerful mage that I could have used for my own purposes. Specially with all the mages out, it wouldn't have hurt to round up a few blood mages to have some arcane firepower against the Darkspawns.
...Teagan is a mage? Since when?

[SolkaTruesilver]

Teagan was not the blood mage, that was Jowan.

Woops..

Sorry. My bad. That'll teach me to play the game only once.

Yhea, I meant Jowan. What did you do to him?

[FoE]

Well, your perspective changes with a new character. Your background is different, the way people approach you is different, etc. It makes sense you would approach a situation differently.

I didn't care for my Dwarven Noble character because he was a giant, unrepetant jerk who thought he was better than anyone else. I viewed everyone with contempt.

[Avilan the Grey]

You haven't said what would be the origin story of your Dwarf.

He's a casteless. For me a dwarven noble rogue just doesn't make sense.
He's getting really good at using the longbow despite having only used a shortbow all his life until Ostagar. In an environment like Dusttown, a longbow would make little sense, I guess.

As for Nina The Barbarian's point: Yes, if you care about your character, you can definitely "feel" the difference.

FoE: My dwarven noble (which I am not playing right now due to being boring :smallwink:) was a bit of a hellraiser; sympathizing with the casteless guy winning the proving, etc.

[The Rose Dragon]

He's a casteless. For me a dwarven noble rogue just doesn't make sense.

As a frequent player of dwarven noble rogues, I have to ask: why not?

[Avilan the Grey]

As a frequent player of dwarven noble rogues, I have to ask: why not?

Well... To be honest I could see an archer one; but a dwarven noble specializing in backstabbing seems weird. Now, backstabbing by proxy, on the other hand... :smallamused:

[Calemyr]

Dwarven noble rogues actually make a fair bit of sense. First because they live in a dog-eat-dog world of clandestine politics, where backstabbing and 'dishonorable' tactics are needed just to survive. Second, because intelligent nobles are often shown to be very bored with their traditional role and the constant vigil of their keepers. Third, because it represents a different type of fighter. DA rogues are not necessarily thieves, though they can easily fill the role. Anyone can pick pockets, however, and what rogues basically boil down to are fighters who rely on speed and guile over raw strength. A noble (human or dwarf) could easily be a rogue simply due to their education, and manifest their roguishness in terms of coersion and tactical manuevering.

[Giggling Ghast]

Not that anyone else is following it, but episode 5 of Warden's Fall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68HWATX-EM&playnext_from=SL) finally dropped.

Mostly just a chase scene, which is fairly well done but doesn't advance the story any (aside from effectively throwing a roadblock on Kristoff's investigation). I suspect Episode 6 will just have Kristoff saying that he has no more leads and a revelation about his backstory before marching off to whatever fate holds for him. It's just a guess, but I've got a feeling that …

… that at least one of Kristoff's parents was an elf. It's been hinted at throughout the story, mostly in the way he treats elves differently than humans. It may be that the little boy at the end of this episode is even a blood relative.

[JadedDM]

For those of you who played Awakening, I have a question. Do events in the story change depending on what choices you made in Origins? For instance, I saw Alistair as king in one of the trailers. If you don't make him king, does that change? Or is there some kind of 'canonical' ending regardless of what you do?

For that matter, if your warden dies, can you still play him in Awakening? How does that work? Are people like, "Hey, aren't you dead?" or something?

[Zevox]

For those of you who played Awakening, I have a question. Do events in the story change depending on what choices you made in Origins? For instance, I saw Alistair as king in one of the trailers. If you don't make him king, does that change? Or is there some kind of 'canonical' ending regardless of what you do?
I can vouch that Alistair being King is not the case in all circumstances. I played through Awakening once in full, once partially, both times using files where Anora wound up Queen and Alistair was not King (albeit under different circumstances - one simply thought she was the better choice for the throne, the other saved Loghain), and in neither did Alistair show up.


For that matter, if your warden dies, can you still play him in Awakening? How does that work? Are people like, "Hey, aren't you dead?" or something?
No idea, I don't have a file where that happened.

Zevox

[FoE]

For those of you who played Awakening, I have a question. Do events in the story change depending on what choices you made in Origins? For instance, I saw Alistair as king in one of the trailers. If you don't make him king, does that change? Or is there some kind of 'canonical' ending regardless of what you do?

There are small changes. If Alistair or Anora were made king, they show up. You're supposed to get a letter from a love interest (though you actually don't due to a bug; that's supposed to get fixed with an upcoming patch). Loghain will show up if he survived. There are allusions to certain events that occured during the game.


For that matter, if your warden dies, can you still play him in Awakening? How does that work? Are people like, "Hey, aren't you dead?" or something?

You can have your character "mysteriously" return to life. However, I have no idea how people react to you, as I personally wouldn't do it.

TV Tropes just gave me a horrifying thought: if Flemeth steals the bodies of her daughters and she actually gave birth to Morrigan instead of stealing her from some hapless couple's crib, that would make her Morrigan's sister in addition to being her mother.

EEEEEEEEEEWWWWWW

[Zevox]

TV Tropes just gave me a horrifying thought: if Flemeth steals the bodies of her daughters and she actually gave birth to Morrigan instead of stealing her from some hapless couple's crib, that would make her Morrigan's sister in addition to being her mother.

EEEEEEEEEEWWWWWW
Er, no, that doesn't seem to follow to me. At least not unless you assume that Flemeth gave birth to Morrigan before taking her current body, and her current body was another of her biological daughters.

Zevox

[JadedDM]

That's awesome then.

But really, am I the only guy who chose to sacrifice his warden? Darn me and my martyr complex!

[Zevox]

But really, am I the only guy who chose to sacrifice his warden? Darn me and my martyr complex!
Probably not, but I never got around to doing a file where I'd do that. My first one romanced Morrigan and took her offer. My second had Loghain sacrifice himself. My third was being thoroughly "evil" and thus would have either taken Morrigan's offer or sacrificed Alistair or Loghain (wasn't sure whether I'd go with Loghain again having just done that), but I moved on to another game partway through that and haven't returned to it. Had a fourth planned who would be a thoroughly goody-goody mage who employed only support-type spells save when absolutely necessary and would probably have sacrificed herself, but I never even started that one.

Zevox

[BarbarianNina]

Origins-ending-related

But really, am I the only guy who chose to sacrifice his warden? Darn me and my martyr complex!
I haven't yet, but I only played through once so far, and my character spared Logain, which cost her her best friend. She was willing to die if she had to, but Logain volunteered... and she was young and in love, and for all she respected Logain enough to give him a second chance, she didn't really feel obligated to die in his place. Yet she still felt guilty... and even, in a way, felt that Logain had surpassed her in nobility and honor. Though that was okay, since it meant another thirty years of sharing a tent with a hot, witty elf being alive.

What did I do about Jowan? With my mage, I searched the internets to find out how to keep him from getting recaptured (yes, I cheated). And when she first met him, I was pretty dismayed by the lack of a *hug Jowan* dialogue option, as my character was neither angry with him nor afraid of blood mages, and he was, you know, the CHILDHOOD FRIEND that she literally RISKED HER LIFE FOR in her origin story.

[Dienekes]

That's awesome then.

But really, am I the only guy who chose to sacrifice his warden? Darn me and my martyr complex!

Course not. My first (and favorite) playthrough is dead as a door nail. I didn't trust Morry at all, disliked her way of completely avoiding any question on what she was to do with the baby or any details at all really, and feared the guarantee that she would run away with potentially the most powerful thing ever birthed. It's better to die than to let loose something with so terrible potential with a character that has a bright neon sign exclaiming "I'm evil" pop up whenever you do something nice around her.

Now 2nd playthough, yeah Morry kept the kid. Partially because it made sense for the character, and partially because I really wanted to see the after party. After that I've gone with what made sense per character. Dude who romanced Morry got her preggers. Pro- Chantry dude died. Anti- Chantry dude survived, and so on.

[JadedDM]

What did I do about Jowan? With my mage, I searched the internets to find out how to keep him from getting recaptured (yes, I cheated). And when she first met him, I was pretty dismayed by the lack of a *hug Jowan* dialogue option, as my character was neither angry with him nor afraid of blood mages, and he was, you know, the CHILDHOOD FRIEND that she literally RISKED HER LIFE FOR in her origin story.

I haven't tried this myself, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the only way to really save Jowan from either dying or being made a tranquil is to make sure you release him when you find him in the basement of Redcliff castle. Specifically, you must tell him to get lost (if you indicate he should help out, he'll show up again later when you speak with Teagan and Isodole) and subsequently give himself up to them.


Course not. My first (and favorite) playthrough is dead as a door nail. I didn't trust Morry at all, disliked her way of completely avoiding any question on what she was to do with the baby or any details at all really, and feared the guarantee that she would run away with potentially the most powerful thing ever birthed. It's better to die than to let loose something with so terrible potential with a character that has a bright neon sign exclaiming "I'm evil" pop up whenever you do something nice around her.

Interesting. My reasoning was not that I distrusted Morrigan (although I was suspicious of her apparently 'noble' efforts to save my life), in fact I considered Morrigan a good friend. I turned her down, though, because my character was in love with Leliana and it would be wrong to 'betray' her in that respect. So I guess it was more of a moral choice, as my character wasn't willing to sacrifice another in his place (particularly Alistair, who he was setting up to be king) or to cheat on his girlfriend with a black magic ritual that may or may not have drastic negative consequences down the road.

[The Rose Dragon]

But really, am I the only guy who chose to sacrifice his warden? Darn me and my martyr complex!

Twice. One in my very first playthrough, and one in a playthrough where I romanced Alistair so I could see the ending where you die.

Then again, in the latter case, it wasn't against the character at all, since she whored Alistair out at every single opportunity after learning he's a virgin. I didn't quite figure out a way to make him sleep with Leliana, but if I had, I probably would have done it.

[Scorpina]

I seriously considered having my character (the only one I've finished Origins with so far) sacrifice herself, but then it occoured to me that Loghain was dead, an unhardened Alistair was on the throne and nobody in Ferelden seems capable of taking care of their problems without her help. I figured it was better to have Alistair sleep with Morrigan than to risk the whole country going to hell in a handbasket without me to save it.

[FoE]

I seriously considered having my character (the only one I've finished Origins with so far) sacrifice herself, but then it occoured to me that Loghain was dead, an unhardened Alistair was on the throne and nobody in Ferelden seems capable of taking care of their problems without her help. I figured it was better to have Alistair sleep with Morrigan than to risk the whole country going to hell in a handbasket without me to save it.

To be fair, a lot of those problems are "we need heroes of legend" sort of stuff. But since none were available, the job fell to your band of dysfunctional loons. :smalltongue:


Er, no, that doesn't seem to follow to me. At least not unless you assume that Flemeth gave birth to Morrigan before taking her current body, and her current body was another of her biological daughters.

Well, if Flemeth's current host was originally Flemeth's daughter and Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter, then they're technically sisters. It's not inbreeding, so to speak, but it does lay another layer of Squick (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick) to an already very Squick-y situation.

[Superglucose]

Had a fourth planned who would be a thoroughly goody-goody mage who employed only support-type spells save when absolutely necessary and would probably have sacrificed herself, but I never even started that one.

Protip: blood magic is epic for that. Mass Crushing Prison.

For me, I took the option with Morrigain and Loghain doing the nasty. It seemed like the best way to keep the most people alive, and I didn't want to leave the rogue girl behind (how could you do something like that? I promised we'd travel the world!)

[mangosta71]

My mage sacrificed herself. Her reasoning was that Loghain would be able to do more for Ferelden than she herself once the Blight was over, and my meta-reasoning was that I didn't want to give that rat bastard the easy way out. The rest of my characters have been...less scrupulous.

[Arcanoi]

Well, if Flemeth's current host was originally Flemeth's daughter and Morrigan is Flemeth's daughter, then they're technically sisters. It's not inbreeding, so to speak, but it does lay another layer of Squick (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick) to an already very Squick-y situation.

Actually, In that case, Morrigan wouldn't be Flemeth's daughter but rather her Great^X Granddaughter. It's not in-breeding unless Flemeth-Host sometimes has sons and....

[Scorpina]

To be fair, a lot of those problems are "we need heroes of legend" sort of stuff. But since none were available, the job fell to your band of dysfunctional loons. :smalltongue:

Well yes, but with one of said loons on the throne, Loghain dead and Harrowmont ruining Orzammar (um, oops?), I thought it was best that my mage stick around to avoid further screwups.

[mangosta71]

Well yes, but with one of said loons on the throne, Loghain dead and Harrowmont ruining Orzammar (um, oops?), I thought it was best that my mage stick around to avoid further screwups.

Or, perhaps, to enable them. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

Protip: blood magic is epic for that. Mass Crushing Prison.
Oh no no no, couldn't happen. That character would've been a total Chantry devotee - she'd never have taken Blood Mage. Would definitely have been a Spirit Healer, would probably have had to go with Arcane Warrior and just never use the skills that opens up with her second specialization (since she'd be almost as wary of Shape-Shifter as of Blood Mage, it coming from Apostates as it does).

Zevox

[Calemyr]

The one character I've imported into Awakenings was Fade, an arcane warrior who sacrificed herself against the dragon, mainly because she didn't trust Morri and didn't want to sacrifice Loghain (who she felt would have been an asset to the kingdom now that he'd been properly humbled). Nobody batted an eye when she rallied the troops at Vigil's Keep or commented on it any way, however.

The way I justified it in my head was that her heavy use of toggles tended to make her look very much like a fade spirit (thus her name). I reasoned that Fade's dealings with the spirit of Valor during her harrowing had more of an effect than she thought, and that she had his backing for the rest of the game, much like Wynne. So she takes on the Archdemon, bites it, gets a fancy funeral, and wakes up on her way to the Anderfels. It worked rather well, in my mind, because the girl was the physical embodiment of reckless valor - including unintentionally soloing the bonus boss in the swamp.

[Calemyr]

In case anyone is at all interested in it, I just finished the Leliana's Song DLC.

To be perfectly honest, it's really quite good. The story isn't really much of a surprise if you've followed Leliana's conversations in the main game - Leliana is a bard who makes a discovery on the job that gets her in deep water. The actual DLC is a fair bit deeper than that.

The allies are refreshingly simplistic. Although each has its own personality and quirks, they manage to be developed enough to add to the story without being so developed they muddy up the narrative. There is also a refreshing lack of angst - the poacher is the worst offender and it effectively amounts to "that guy tortured me, so I think I'll kill him. After that, I think I'll get a job in the Chantry." They are limited by the fact that they start at level 10 and will probably end at level 15, but their talents are reasonably well selected.

One weakness of the mod is the limited party and the limited customization you can do with them. It doesn't matter for most of it, but mages have a bad habit of popping up and inopportune times, and you don't have the manpower to just beat them straight up. Just keep this in mind when selecting your powers: Mana Clash may be cheap, but it can really help. Still, that is a small complaint.

The one thing I find unforgivable about it, however, is the bonus item that is available in this DLC. By obtaining pieces of leather throughout the DLC, you can unlock a special piece of leather armor for Origins and Awakenings. The armor is actually quite nice, heavily loaded with valuable goodies, but the blasted armor has a very mundane model and texture, proving once again that rogues have no sense of style. This would have been a perfect excuse to give us that kickass black and red number Leliana wears in the Ashes trailer, but instead we get another boring armor with very nice stats. This is just criminal.

Anyway, the story is longer than anything other than Awakenings, and in some ways deeper and more rewarding than even that. It makes a fairly believable transition for Leliana to go from playful sociopath to repentant saint and makes several references to Origins, including the fate of the City Elf Warden's missing mother. I'm glad I bought it, even with that blankety-blank-blank armor.

[Avilan the Grey]

In my playthroughs now I came across an interesting bug:

My dwarven archer decided to go to the Elven forest first (to return later to get the armor pieces, he was after the bow this time). When he got as far as the Archane Warrior part, he suddenly got teleported into the room which contains the breastplate. The fight was not exactly difficult, but since he ended up on the wrong side of a door with no key... I had to reload. Thank God the second time the bug didn't happen.

Also... Is there any other mods except for Skipping The Fade that is actually worth it and is not overpowered to ridiculous levels?

[Scorpina]

proving once again that rogues have no sense of style

This really bugs me in the game as a whole. Especially since, in Origins, the two non-Warden party-joining rogues are Leliana and Zevran for crying out loud.

[The Rose Dragon]

Also... Is there any other mods except for Skipping The Fade that is actually worth it and is not overpowered to ridiculous levels?

Why do you want to skip the Fade? I would much prefer to skip the rest of the Circle Tower.

[Avilan the Grey]

Why do you want to skip the Fade? I would much prefer to skip the rest of the Circle Tower.

The Fade is the Scrappy Level. The rest of the tower is fun.

[The Rose Dragon]

The Fade is the Scrappy Level. The rest of the tower is fun.

Your mileage and all that jazz, then. I much prefer the sudden increase in my flexibility in combat to the rest of the Circle Tower. The only parts that were interesting to me were the final fight with Uldred and... I think that's pretty much it.

[Cespenar]

The Fade is the Scrappy Level. The rest of the tower is fun.

Funny. To me, the Fade was one of the most enjoyable parts in the whole game, thanks to the hilarious Golem transformation.

[Calemyr]

Personally, I enjoyed the Fade. It felt kinda cool being able to jump between forms (and thus modes of gameplay) and generally feeling like an army of one. It might get old after repeated plays through, but I'm on #6 and still get a charge out of soloing a demon's strong hold. I suppose I can see why people would want to skip it, however, the amount of backtracking involved can be rather sickening.

[Avilan the Grey]

Looking through the Dragon Age Nexus, I am so tempted at installing the Runic Armor. It is a masterpiece, but it is overpowered enough...

[Scorpina]

Personally, I enjoyed the Fade. It felt kinda cool being able to jump between forms (and thus modes of gameplay) and generally feeling like an army of one. It might get old after repeated plays through, but I'm on #6 and still get a charge out of soloing a demon's strong hold. I suppose I can see why people would want to skip it, however, the amount of backtracking involved can be rather sickening.

I enjoyed The Fade at first, but it (and the Circle Tower as a whole) seemed to drag on for too long.

[Lord Raziere]

To be fair, a lot of those problems are "we need heroes of legend" sort of stuff. But since none were available, the job fell to your band of dysfunctional loons. :smalltongue:



actually those things are pretty much the same, practically a requirement really, at least in Bioware games.

[Calemyr]

Also... Is there any other mods except for Skipping The Fade that is actually worth it and is not overpowered to ridiculous levels?

A few I always swear by:
Cosmetics: There are several cosmetic mods I use, increasing the variety of colors, textures and styles available for faces and hair. Don't know the names off hand and can't check right now (work blocks that site). I'll fix that at lunch.

Hide Helm: Removes the helmet when not in combat, which is really nice if you've gone through the effort of building a nice head for your character.

No Follower Auto Levelup: There's nothing more frustrating than having a character you like and having them waste talents on stupid powers (I'm looking at you, Ohgren and Leliana). This mod doesn't undo their specializations, but everything else is refunded so that you can mold them to suit you.

Warden's Keep in Awakening: Allow you to keep the Warden Commander's Armor when stepping into Awakening. It's the best looking armor in the game, so it's a shame to see it die.

Awakening in Origins: Copy the resources from Awakening into Origins. Not really a big boost, since talents and skills are still locked until level 20+, but access to armor runes and stamina potions really is a feature that should have been part of the expansion from the beginning.

Universal Dye Kit: Not perfect, but it lets you alter the color schemes of a lot of gear. Since all of the leather stuff looks virtually identical otherwise, this is a godsend to rogues. Alters weapons, too.

Dalish Mage: Not perfect by any means (the Circle still acts as if you're one of them), but it's kinda nice to play the only accepted class of apostate in Fereldan.

Leliana's Items: Stylish light armor, for once in Fereldan's bleack history? Yes, please. Not game breaking in any way (mundane tier 7 leather armor), but finally some good looking armor.

[FoE]

I like going through the Fade, with the exception of That One Area in the Mages Asunder where the mages are waiting on the other side of that flaming door to kick your ass. I always pay a moment of silence for poor Niall at the end.

The Fade is an important turning point in the game. It's the moment where I realized why this band of dysfunctional loons have decided to follow me. Not just because I'm a Grey Warden, but because I'm the biggest badass of the lot.

[Avilan the Grey]

A few I always swear by:
Cosmetics: There are several cosmetic mods I use, increasing the variety of colors, textures and styles available for faces and hair. Don't know the names off hand and can't check right now (work blocks that site). I'll fix that at lunch.

Hide Helm: Removes the helmet when not in combat, which is really nice if you've gone through the effort of building a nice head for your character.

No Follower Auto Levelup: There's nothing more frustrating than having a character you like and having them waste talents on stupid powers (I'm looking at you, Ohgren and Leliana). This mod doesn't undo their specializations, but everything else is refunded so that you can mold them to suit you.

Warden's Keep in Awakening: Allow you to keep the Warden Commander's Armor when stepping into Awakening. It's the best looking armor in the game, so it's a shame to see it die.

Awakening in Origins: Copy the resources from Awakening into Origins. Not really a big boost, since talents and skills are still locked until level 20+, but access to armor runes and stamina potions really is a feature that should have been part of the expansion from the beginning.

Universal Dye Kit: Not perfect, but it lets you alter the color schemes of a lot of gear. Since all of the leather stuff looks virtually identical otherwise, this is a godsend to rogues. Alters weapons, too.

Dalish Mage: Not perfect by any means (the Circle still acts as if you're one of them), but it's kinda nice to play the only accepted class of apostate in Fereldan.

Leliana's Items: Stylish light armor, for once in Fereldan's bleack history? Yes, please. Not game breaking in any way (mundane tier 7 leather armor), but finally some good looking armor.

Ok I have a number of cosmetic mods:

Alternative arms and armor tints - Better looking materials for armors and weapons.

Blood Dragon Armor Dark Retexture - Darker, steel texture for the blood dragon armor, without the red glow.

Dragon Age Redesigned Version 7-1 - Better faces, from the same guy that made FO3 so much more decent looking. I use the Core faces, which is basically just slightly better-looking original models.

I will look into Lelianas Gear.

[Leon]

Fade 1st time was fun
Fade 2nd time was even more fun (stealth up behind something and Golem Slam sneak attack)
Fade 3rd time is sure to be fun as well but that's is a ways off for now

[Kish]

The Fade is an important turning point in the game. It's the moment where I realized why this band of dysfunctional loons have decided to follow me. Not just because I'm a Grey Warden, but because I'm the biggest badass of the lot.
Are you quite certain you don't mean "because, for some reason that makes no freaking in-game sense, they all got compelling dreamscapes drawn from their pasts, while you, instead of being back in Orzammar, leading the city elves to true freedom, reclaiming the Dalish homeland, having your family alive again, or being appointed First Enchanter of a newly freed Circle tower, got a generic and easily unraveled scene of Weisshaupt Fortress"?

[Deth Muncher]

Heck yes. Just unlocked Arcane Warrior earlier, and I'm now running around in 2/4 of the Juggernaut Armor from the Brecilian Woods, and I'm hunting for the other two. I know where they are, Reveneants just whoop my ass. Also, I can finally use the Spellweaver. Aww yeah. Now I've just gotta find a shield...

[The Rose Dragon]

Now I've just gotta find a shield...

I suggest a buckler.

[arguskos]

I suggest a buckler.
I suggest Sten.

[Arcanoi]

I suggest Sten.

A Sten equipped with Oghren.

[The Rose Dragon]

A Sten equipped with Oghren.

While you're at it, equip Oghren with Zevran.

[Scorpina]

While you're at it, equip Oghren with Zevran.

Sounds kinky.

[Cespenar]

While you're at it, equip Oghren with Zevran.

Oghren might object to that though.

[The Rose Dragon]

Oghren might object to that though.

OK, equip Zevran with Oghren.

[FoE]

Are you quite certain you don't mean "because, for some reason that makes no freaking in-game sense, they all got compelling dreamscapes drawn from their pasts, while you, instead of being back in Orzammar, leading the city elves to true freedom, reclaiming the Dalish homeland, having your family alive again, or being appointed First Enchanter of a newly freed Circle tower, got a generic and easily unraveled scene of Weisshaupt Fortress"?

I have thought about this a little and I've realized the point of the dreams isn't to make you happy — they're to make you complacent.

First off, "compelling dreamscapes drawn from their pasts?" Of all the Warden's supporting cast, only Alistair and Sten got what I would call a "happy" dream. Indeed, some of them are rather horrific. And consider the implications of Alistair's dream: he thinks he's living with his sister, basically sponging off her charity. And do you think wandering out in the middle of Ferelden looking for darkspawn is the happiest Sten could possibly be?

Demons draw strength from the emotions that they're named for. A sloth demon feeds on apathy, doubt and complacency. Using a little mind control, its nightmares are crafted to make the Warden and his companions docile. . It isn't out to make you happy or cater to your desires because that's not what a sloth demon does. This isn't the Black Mercy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForTheManWhoHasEverything).

Even its method of attack — trapping you within a nightmare instead of simply killing you — speaks to the sloth demon's nature. And even if you escape your nightmare, like Niall did, it's surrounded itself with a series of obstacles that it hopes you will be too lazy to climb over.

Could the nightmare be more personalized? Certainly. I can imagine a fantasy where Bann Vaughan never crashed the wedding, my City Elf character actually got married and continued living out his days in the Alienage would be very effective. I forgive the developers for not wanting or being able to craft a minimum of six individual fantasies. As it is, presenting you with a fantasy tied into the entire point of the game (namely, defeating the Blight) is a pretty sensible alternative, I think.

[Kish]

I have thought about this a little and I've realized the point of the dreams isn't to make you happy — they're to make you complacent.

First off, "compelling dreamscapes drawn from their pasts?" Of all the Warden's supporting cast, only Alistair and Sten got what I would call a "happy" dream, the latter only marginally so.

"Happy" isn't a synonym for "compelling." Being tortured by the Crows made his dream compelling for Zevran. Only the PC gets a generic dream, and only the PC can break free on his/her own. These aren't related except in that they're both caused by the same thing, specifically Bioware deciding not to bother with any effort to justify "you and you alone can escape without help" there, but they're both true.


I forgive the developers for not wanting or being able to craft a minimum of six individual fantasies.

I don't forgive them for not being able to because they certainly were able to. They crafted six separate origins, they can't craft six scenes the length of that exchange with "Duncan" at Weisshaupt? As well say Shianni has to address whoever shows up at the Alienage as her cousin because Bioware certainly couldn't make her lines different depending on whether the PC is actually a city elf or not. And, if by "forgive" you mean "think it's not lazy and worthy of criticism," then I don't forgive them for not choosing to, either, any more than I think it's not lazy and worthy of criticism that my dwarf commoner had the option to tell Morrigan "I happen to be of royal blood, you know," because apparently someone at Bioware found "put check for dwarf noble instead of check for dwarf" taxing. :smalltongue:

[Avilan the Grey]

The point here is that the Sloth demon is not even doing a very good job; it screws up at least three stories:

Yours, because it goes for what it thinks is what you really want, but fails to scrape beyond the very surface. It thinks that because you are leading a team of grey wardens, that all you really want is for the blight to be over and to stay with Duncan for ever (one could argue that this dream would have had a bigger chance to work on Alistair than on you, btw). It didn't bother to dig deeper into your head and find out all the other crap that happened to you recently.

Sten's because it cannot comprehend the Qunari mindset.

Morrigan's, because it's limited exposure to humans have made it draw the faulty conclusion that everyone misses their mothers...

I think the reason for this screwup is twofold: one, a demon is an alien being that don't really understand mortals, period, and two, it is, surprise, lazy, and don't bother with too intricate dreams. It's too much work.

[Cristo Meyers]

Hell with only hitting the surface, the demon doesn't do its homework at all. I've only had a single character that would legitimately be glad to see Duncan again, and one that would think "I am dead and this...is...hell"

I'm with Kish on this one, it's laziness on the part of the programmers just like the stabbing the Ogre in the head with a mace/axe and every character finishing off the Archdemon with a greatsword regardless of class.

[FoE]

"Happy" isn't a synonym for "compelling." Being tortured by the Crows made his dream compelling for Zevran.

What exactly do you mean by "compelling"? I take that to mean "incredibly interesting". Zevran's Nightmare doesn't strike me as that. He's being tortured as part of his training to become a Crow — training that he's already been through, tests that he's already passed. He thinks that he has to stay and so he does. That's not compelling, that's complacency.

All the nightmares simply invoke a bland status quo. Morrigan is returned to her mother because she'd spent most of her life in the Kocari Wilds with Flemeth. But Morrigan realizes it isn't real due to the spirit's poor imitation of Flemeth, though I don't doubt that her own magical ability played into that.

Sten is returned to a quest he can't abandon, forever searching for the answer to the arishok's question. But for whatever reason — probably due to the fact that he's incredibly strong-willed — Sten recognizes that it's a dream. However, the nightmare does its job, as he willingly accepts the dream because his life outside of it is such crap.

Leliana is returned to her drab life in Lothering, Oghren is back eternally drowning his sorrows in Orzammar, Shale returns to a state of paralysis and Wynne thinks she has utterly failed in her quest to save the Circle, believing that there is no point to going on.


I think the reason for this screwup is twofold: one, a demon is an alien being that don't really understand mortals, period, and two, it is, surprise, lazy, and don't bother with too intricate dreams. It's too much work.

And yes, there is that. Spirits and demons can't quite comprehend our reality; that's why the entirety of the Fade is like a half-finished portrait of the real world, painted by a half-blind artist who was stone drunk at the time.


And, if by "forgive" you mean "think it's not lazy and worthy of criticism," then I don't forgive them for not choosing to, either, any more than I think it's not lazy and worthy of criticism that my dwarf commoner had the option to tell Morrigan "I happen to be of royal blood, you know," because apparently someone at Bioware found "put check for dwarf noble instead of check for dwarf" taxing. :smalltongue:

Yes, well, that's a whole other ball of wax. There are some definite bugs with the dialogue options — my City Elf character had the option of telling Morrigan his mother died at birth, even though she clearly lived long enough to train him.

But story-wise, the Fade makes perfect sense to me.

[Zordrath]

So they announced the sequel today. (http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/) And it's going to have a largely predefined main character who can only be human, there will be no Origin stories and you won't get to import your old character. They also mention the word "action" a lot.

[Zevox]

So they announced the sequel today. (http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/) And it's going to have a largely predefined main character who can only be human, there will be no Origin stories and you won't get to import your old character. They also mention the word "action" a lot.
Huh, I must say that's not at all what I expected. Still sounds pretty good though.

I wonder what connection it will have to the first game, then? Because at first glance it sounds like the setting is the only connection, which seems a bit odd. If it isn't going to address things like what happens with Morrigan and her potential child, I certainly hope they do a DLC or expansion to Origins to address that.

Zevox

[Dienekes]

So they announced the sequel today. (http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/) And it's going to have a largely predefined main character who can only be human, there will be no Origin stories and you won't get to import your old character. They also mention the word "action" a lot.

That... is incredibly disappointing.

[Avilan the Grey]

They can go two ways with this:

The Mass Effect 2 way, and into the burning depths of hell.

I am on one hand incredibly pleased with the "Fable" ideas, but the rest seems to be merely a ton of Suck. I will wait for reviews before ordering this.

[Zordrath]

I was baffled they chose to completely ditch the Origin stories and the old character... so far, you could always import your old character in Bioware sequels, and Dragon Age had a major focus on character customization. To remove that makes no sense to me at all.

Then there's all this talk about setting "a new bar for intense action in the genre"... I certainly don't mind action, but tactical party combat is one of the core aspects of DA, and I dread that they might switch to a system like Mass Effect, where you don't even control your party directly and only give vague and general orders from a clunky command overlay.

Other aspects, such as the supposed new art style, I'm cautiously optimistic about until we've seen more.


The marketing babble also seems intent to emphasize that they will develop it with a greater console focus this time, at least they're using a lot of words for them...


The new game is scheduled for release in March of 2011 on the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and PC.

[Comet]

I know I should probably be dissapointed that they chose to take this series into a streamlined, action-oriented direction.

But damn, they do make it sound pretty epic. Here's hoping they'll pull through, this definetly seems like a thing that will have little trouble fitting into the world of Dragon Age.

[Avilan the Grey]

I am not baffled; it is just a case of Console-Whoring.

They are making ME2 with swords. That's why you can't change your name, because it has to be voice-acted now...

[Zevox]

I am on one hand incredibly pleased with the "Fable" ideas,
:smallconfused: What "Fable ideas" are you referring to?


but the rest seems to be merely a ton of Suck.
What "rest?" There's practically no information on the page Zordrath linked - hell, it doesn't even actually say any of the things about the main character that he posted, though I don't doubt he's telling the truth given a brief glance at the forums linked on that page shows plenty of people acting hysterically over that same information.


I was baffled they chose to completely ditch the Origin stories and the old character... so far, you could always import your old character in Bioware sequels, and Dragon Age had a major focus on character customization. To remove that makes no sense to me at all.
It's surprising, certainly, but I'm actually kind of pleased by it. This way the main character can actually have things like a personality that fits him into the group dynamic of the game's party, or a definite motivation or desires that fit him into the story - it may even be possible for them to make the story character-driven rather than centered on an external threat you're just reacting to if they put their minds to it (I'm not entirely sure Bioware knows how to do that, but I can hope, can't I?). Plus it makes it more likely that the main character will be voice acted this time around too.


Other aspects, such as the supposed new art style, I'm cautiously optimistic about until we've seen more.
New art style? The art on that page doesn't seem like a new style at all. Where'd you hear that?

Zevox

[Avilan the Grey]

:smallconfused: What "Fable ideas" are you referring to?

What "rest?" There's practically no information on the page Zordrath linked - hell, it doesn't even actually say any of the things about the main character that he posted, though I don't doubt he's telling the truth given a brief glance at the forums linked on that page shows plenty of people acting hysterically over that same information.


The whole "game takes place during a lifetime" thing.

The rest, meaning fully voiced, stuck as human, must be "Hawke", more action-oriented play (meaning they are moving away from the Baldur's Gate experience completely).

I will probably buy it; Mass Effect 2 is spectacular, but everything i know so far is a huge disappointment compared to DA:O.

[Cristo Meyers]

Only one thing stood out to me: they're ditching the "carry over your character".

Halla-freaking-leuyah

It's a gimmick, and a crappy one at that. They're going to catch all tons of crap for losing it, but hopefully they'll stick to their guns and keep it out. Use that freed up space for something worthwhile.

Everything else, not enough information to judge. I am wondering if you'll be locked into that particular avatar or if you'll at least be able to modify your appearance/gender/etc.

[Avilan the Grey]

I fully understand the "not re-use old character". Your character after Awakening is way too powerful for it to work.

...Btw, looking for more info about this, I clicked the "pre-order now" button and the link takes me to the EA store, which do have a link for it...!

[Zordrath]

What "rest?" There's practically no information on the page Zordrath linked - hell, it doesn't even actually say any of the things about the main character that he posted, though I don't doubt he's telling the truth given a brief glance at the forums linked on that page shows plenty of people acting hysterically over that same information.
The developers have already divulged some information in the forums. Your main character will always be a human going by the last name of Hawke, and can be either male or female. Most people suspect Hawke will be voice-acted and work pretty much like Shepard, though that's not been confirmed yet.


New art style? The art on that page doesn't seem like a new style at all. Where'd you hear that?
It says so on the page:


# Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

The developers have also commented in the forums that we'll soon see more of this new style, and perhaps an interview with the art director.

From the pictures, it looks slightly less realistic and more like comic book drawings to me, though it's hard to discern much from just two pictures.

[Dienekes]

I actually like the carry over gimmick, though I understand that it would be unrealistic for anything other than a Mass Effect style game about 1 man's decisions during their lifetime. Plus noticing the differences between ME2 playthoughs with different carried over characters was one of my favorite parts of the game.

I also fairly early on thought they wouldn't make the games carry over because of the whole Morry busy. God Child is too big a thing to only have occur some of the time. Or the fact you can essentially destroy the Dwarves.

My major disappointments are "Hawke" the human commoner you're stuck with. Mind you, it could still be great but I really enjoyed the origins in DA:O. They were in my opinion one of Bioware's better decisions and the most successful part of the game. I would much rather have an interesting and unique backstory to play through for multiple characters than voice acting.

Better combat system doesn't mean anything yet. I enjoyed DA combat but understand tweaks can be made, we don't have enough information yet to judge.

Story, well it's going to be Bioware. Honestly the only part that got me excited reading the notes was using the term "General" which could be really awesome though having nothing to do with DA style combat, and was probably just another meaningless descriptor for squad tactics.

[Avilan the Grey]

My biggest worry is system specs. No info on them yet, it seems.

[FoE]

I always thought it was a given that DA: 2 was never going to be a straight continuation of DA: Origins, featuring the same character and a mostly new cast. (Oh, except Sten and Wynne are back and are now romanceable.) That was kind of the point of the expansion, wasn't it? "Still want to send your character on some fun adventures? Shill out for this crap!"

(Note: I don't really have an opinion on Awakenings. I did buy it, but am working on a save that I want to take into the expansion.)

And honestly, it makes sense. The ME series has always been tagged as "The Saga of Commander Shepard". DA was "The Adventures of INSERT NAME, RACE, CLASS AND BACKGROUND HERE." He went from a nobody to the saviour of the whole world; his story is done, as far as I'm concerned.

I like the concept of the multiple origin stories, but when all is said and done, I only have "one true playthrough" that I consider to be my own canon. I play a set character in other games; what's wrong with doing that here?

I was also under the impression that Morrigan's child was going to be the main character of the new game, be it a child with the soul of an Old God or otherwise. Or that it would include said child as a supporting cast member, or perhaps even a villain.

I also assumed that the game would be set away from Ferelden just to make things more interesting. Ferelden's been pretty thoroughly explored. Indeed, we already had a discussion about which lands might be interesting to visit.

I guess the "Fable" comparison comes from the fact that it's a new main hero whose story is stretched over a long period of time. I can understand that, though Fable and DA are vastly different games.

[Zevox]

The whole "game takes place during a lifetime" thing.
That doesn't sound like Fable to me. I mean, I suppose Fable technically did have you start as a kid - very briefly - and aged you forward once after the main game started, but it did all of nothing with that concept. A better example would be Dragon Quest 5, but since the page says the game takes place over just a decade, it's not quite like that either (where you start as a child and end with your own children and wife fighting side-by-side with you).


The developers have already divulged some information in the forums. Your main character will always be a human going by the last name of Hawke, and can be either male or female. Most people suspect Hawke will be voice-acted and work pretty much like Shepard, though that's not been confirmed yet.
Ah, okay. Sounds good, though I guess I can forget my brief hopes of a character-driven story and a main character with actual preset personality, motivations, etc if they're still letting you pick things like your sex (and presumably name, since you said Hawke was the last name). That's just not Bioware's thing I suppose.


The developers have also commented in the forums that we'll soon see more of this new style, and perhaps an interview with the art director.

From the pictures, it looks slightly less realistic and more like comic book drawings to me, though it's hard to discern much from just two pictures.
I honestly see absolutely no difference between the art on that page and the art from Origins. Especially with the huge image at the top, which seems like it's probably the closest to what we'll see in the actual game.

Zevox

[FoE]

That doesn't sound like Fable to me. I mean, I suppose Fable technically did have you start as a kid - very briefly - and aged you forward once after the main game started, but it did all of nothing with that concept.

Fable 2 did a bit more with that concept. Sparrow starts as a child, grows into a young man (or woman) and becomes an adult after spending years working on the Spire. (Which many people said was a terrible plot point, but many people said many things about Fable 2.) You could also be magically aged at one point.


I honestly see absolutely no difference between the art on that page and the art from Origins. Especially with the huge image at the top, which seems like it's probably the closest to what we'll see in the actual game.

Agreed. And in any case, the concept art for DA: Origins often looked nothing like the actual characters.

[Zevox]

Fable 2 did a bit more with that concept. Sparrow starts as a child, grows into a young man (or woman) and becomes an adult after spending years working on the Spire. (Which many people said was a terrible plot point, but many people said many things about Fable 2.)
Haven't played Fable 2 - I intend to rent it at some point, but given the total mediocrity of the first game, it's pretty low on my priorities. But what more are you referring to? Just having the character start as a child and end as an adult doesn't really do much of anything if it doesn't impact the story or gameplay, or have you go through significant life events such as marriage or having children and have that impact some important aspect of the game (I hear marriage is every bit as peripheral in 2 as it was in Fable 1, albeit a somewhat expanded peripheral).

Zevox

[Revya]

Ah, okay. Sounds good, though I guess I can forget my brief hopes of a character-driven story and a main character with actual preset personality, motivations, etc if they're still letting you pick things like your sex (and presumably name, since you said Hawke was the last name). That's just not Bioware's thing I suppose.


Even if you like more defined protagonists, it's always good to let players choose sex. I like choosing sex. Yep. Female gamers who want to play female characters won't have to feel left out. Of course, the same goes for male gamers who want to play female characters.

And yeah, I think these types of RPGs are about letting the player give the character a personality, within the constraints of the game's choices. At least, that's how it's been. I don't know if Bioware will keep going in that direction.

I personally like some of the changes so far. As long as you can choose a first name again, and customize Hawke's features, I'm good. I always play a human in Origins/Awakening, and it seems you can choose your class. Hawke is also shaping up to be some kind of IMBA protagonist. I hope this means your character won't be punked in cutscenes anymore.

I'm not sure if these changes are completely positive, though. As I said, I personally like them... but how about the people who want to play elves or dwarves? I think a friend of mine is going to be disappointed.

[Zevox]

Even if you like more defined protagonists, it's always good to let players choose sex. I like choosing sex. Yep. Female gamers who want to play female characters won't have to feel left out. Of course, the same goes for male gamers who want to play female characters.
I like that too - I quite often choose to play a female myself in that situation, such as I do in Mass Effect - I just suspect it's a sign that Bioware isn't deviating much from their usual style with main characters here. Theoretically you could have a game with two well-written main characters, one male and one female, but odds are most developers wanting a specific, defined main character would choose whether the character was male or female and just stick with that.


Hawke is also shaping up to be some kind of IMBA protagonist.
"IMBA?" :smallconfused:


I'm not sure if these changes are completely positive, though. As I said, I personally like them... but how about the people who want to play elves or dwarves? I think a friend of mine is going to be disappointed.
I played entirely Elves during my three files of DA:O (started as a Mage, then Dalish Elf Warrior, then City Elf Rogue), and I'm perfectly fine with it.

Zevox

[FoE]

Haven't played Fable 2 - I intend to rent it at some point, but given the total mediocrity of the first game, it's pretty low on my priorities. But what more are you referring to? Just having the character start as a child and end as an adult doesn't really do much of anything if it doesn't impact the story or gameplay, or have you go through significant life events such as marriage or having children and have that impact some important aspect of the game (I hear marriage is every bit as peripheral in 2 as it was in Fable 1, albeit a somewhat expanded peripheral).

Hmm. I'm not exactly sure how age could affect gameplay in the way you describe. I will say that time does have a certain amount of impact on the game; as a child, your actions can influence whether your old neighbourhood ends up as an upscale district or a dingy slum.

If you like, here's a quick synopsis of the plot:

Sparrow starts as a child living on the streets of Bowerstone along with his sister Rose. You find a strange music box that is supposed to grant wishes, but mysteriously disappears after being used. The main villain, Lord Lucien, then tracks you both down in order to avert an ancient prophecy that would prevent him from building the Spire, an artifact that will grant one wish to its owner. Rose is killed and Sparrow is taken in by a blind seer (incidentally, the same lady who told you about the music box).

Years pass in the blink of a cutscene and Sparrow comes of age, deciding at last to take his vengeance on the Big Bad while being guided by Theresa. While finding Heroes of Skill, Will and Strength to fulfill an ancient prophecy — the game never really says why you'd want to, which is definitely a weakness of the storyline — you eventually end up one of Lucien's slaves and spend years in his service while building the Spire.

Now an adult, you escape and find the last Hero, only for Lucien to catch up to you and kill your family (if you had one) and your dog. He also shoots you, though you manage to come back to life after a brief detour through a sickeningly sweet fantasy world where our sister never died. You return to life with the same music box from your childhood and then off Lucien in a decidedly anticlimactic fashion.

The game ends with Theresa allowing you to use the Spire to make a single wish. She then dismisses you, claiming that while you have the run of the rest of Albion, the Spire is hers alone. Thus, the entire events of the game can be said to have been orchestrated by Theresa.

I will say that Fable 2 is significantly improved over the original, though its story is a bit weak and there are some minor issues with the gameplay. I have high hopes for Fable 3, however.

[Axolotl]

I must say I'm very impressed with the announcements for Dragon Age 2. I didn't think it would be possible for me to dislike Dragon Age more but they've managed it. Seriously forcing you to play a human? Fight like a Spartan? All the things said about combat makes me fear that RTw/P is dead and they've replaced it with something more actiony. And the use of the word "cinematic" that really annoys me.

[Kish]

What exactly do you mean by "compelling"?

I mean that it compels the person it's for.

I take that to mean "incredibly interesting". Zevran's Nightmare doesn't strike me as that.

It doesn't need to do anything for you. It's not about you, only the generic scene with Duncan and Weisshaupt Fortress is. Whether the vision makes the character happy or miserable is unimportant to whether it exerts an emotional hold on them. And, for that matter, whether (Morrigan) the character even believes or cares about the vision turns out not to matter to whether they can leave. The only one who can leave his/her vision without help is you. You want to think that means that you're an incredible badass instead of that Bioware was lazy and didn't care about making sense, go ahead.

[Revya]

I like that too - I quite often choose to play a female myself in that situation, such as I do in Mass Effect - I just suspect it's a sign that Bioware isn't deviating much from their usual style with main characters here. Theoretically you could have a game with two well-written main characters, one male and one female, but odds are most developers wanting a specific, defined main character would choose whether the character was male or female and just stick with that.

That's true. I'm also speaking as someone who prefers to step into the role of the protagonist, so as far as "identifying" with someone and the like... I don't know how it feels for players who already like preset characters. That is, if a player identifies with female characters more but wants preset characters, would it be fine if there's a prominent female party member alongside a male protagonist? Something like that.



"IMBA?" :smallconfused:

Oh, sorry. Imbalanced. Overpowered. Shepard. I'm referring to what I feel is a vast difference in cutscene power between The Warden and Shepard. I'm hoping the "single most important character in the world of Dragon Age" won't be constantly overwhelmed in anything other than actual gameplay. In fact, I'm hoping for some cutscene fireworks that rival mecha shows.



I played entirely Elves during my three files of DA:O (started as a Mage, then Dalish Elf Warrior, then City Elf Rogue), and I'm perfectly fine with it.

That's great. I mean that with zero sarcasm. I hope it won't be too disappointing for other elf players. Mass Effect's style is a good balance for me, and though I don't think it's an appropriate followup to Origins, I'm looking forward to it.

[Zevox]

Hmm. I'm not exactly sure how age could affect gameplay in the way you describe.
That might be because I didn't describe any way, I just suggested that that would be one way to actually do something with the concept of a game where your character ages. Specific ideas might include that a warrior character would have to deal with some impediment to his reflexes or strength as he gets older, or a mage character might find his magic growing stronger or weakening over time, just to toss a couple off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts out.

As I said, the big thing that Dragon Quest 5 did with it was to have you go through marriage and have children who then grew up to aid on your quest (one even turns out to be the "chosen one" style hero who can use the mighty Zenithian equipment, which is unusual for a Dragon Quest game, since it's otherwise always your main character who fulfills that sort of role when it's present). This impacted both the story and gameplay in a sense.


If you like, here's a quick summation of the plot:

Sparrow starts as a child living on the streets of Bowerstone along with his sister Rose. You find a strange music box that is supposed to grant wishes, but mysteriously disappears after being used. The main villain, Lord Lucien, then tracks you both down in order to avert an ancient prophecy that would prevent him from building the Spire, an artifact that will grant one wish to its owner. Rose is killed and Sparrow is taken in by a blind seer (incidentally, the same lady who told you about the music box).

Years pass in the blink of a cutscene and Sparrow comes of age, deciding at last to take his vengeance on the Big Bad while being guided by Theresa. While finding Heroes of Skill, Will and Strength to fulfill an ancient prophecy —*the game never really says why you'd want to, which is definitely a weakness of the storyline —*you eventually end up one of Lucien's slaves and spend years in his service while building the Spire.

Now an adult, you escape and find the last Hero, only for Lucien to catch up to you and kill your family (if you had one) and your dog. He also shoots you, though you manage to come back to life after a brief detour through a sickeningly sweet fantasy world where our sister never died. You return to life with the same music box from your childhood and then off Lucien in a decidedly anticlimactic fashion.

The game ends with Theresa allowing you to use the Spire to make a single wish. She then dismisses you, claiming that while you have the run of the rest of Albion, the Spire is hers alone. Thus, the entire events of the game can be said to have been orchestrated by Theresa.
Hm, sounds like the childhood thing is no different from Fable 1's. The second incident of aging actually sounds like one from DQ5 - you end up a slave there too, forced to work in building, if memory serves, a temple, and it is revenge on the villains that did this to you that is supposed to serve as your motivation for going after them, at least up until you learn in full what they're doing and it becomes a "save the world" plot like all other DQ games. Though from the sounds of it they don't do so much with that in Fable, since it sounds like you get another reason to want revenge on this guy right after getting away from the slavery thing anyway.

In any event we should probably cease the Fable 2 discussion so as not to derail the thread.

Zevox

[Trazoi]

I will say that Fable 2 is significantly improved over the original, though its story is a bit weak and there are some minor issues with the gameplay. I have high hopes for Fable 3, however.
Fable 2 is an odd game. IMO the main story is weak and often quite annoying, and the gameplay itself can get quite repetitive. But there's something about the ambiance of the game that really appeals to me. However in Fable 2, you don't actually have much impact on the world and especially the main plot. For example, no matter how much he deserves it and how much you want to, you can't shoot Reaver. Just like in the first Fable, you're locked into following the pre-defined checkpoints and making whatever stupid decisions the main plot requires you do to.

I can't really pass judgement on Dragon Age 2 until there's more info. I really doubt they'll be going for the vectorised cartoon look; given the limited time they've had since the first game came out, I'm sure they're using a version of the previous engine. A lack of character options is unfortunate, but not a deal breaker for me by itself (again, that might be explained by time issues as well as a push for voice acting).

[Zevox]

I'm also speaking as someone who prefers to step into the role of the protagonist, so as far as "identifying" with someone and the like... I don't know how it feels for players who already like preset characters. That is, if a player identifies with female characters more but wants preset characters, would it be fine if there's a prominent female party member alongside a male protagonist? Something like that.
That might be why RPGs without the blank-slate style main characters often have a secondary character of importance close to the main character's who is of the opposite sex from the main character. Most Final Fantasy games, for instance, have a male main character and a lead female character of some importance, like Tidus and Yuna in 10. Or Lloyd and Collete in Tales of Symphonia, Yuri and Estelle in Tales of Vesperia, Shion and Junior in Xenosaga (though there the main character is female and the secondary male), and so forth.


Oh, sorry. Imbalanced. Overpowered. Shepard. I'm referring to what I feel is a vast difference in cutscene power between The Warden and Shepard. I'm hoping the "single most important character in the world of Dragon Age" won't be constantly overwhelmed in anything other than actual gameplay. In fact, I'm hoping for some cutscene fireworks that rival mecha shows.
Uh, okay. I don't really recall any problems with being overpowered in cutscenes in Origins, at least unless you count at Ostagar, where you were up against an entire army and still pretty new to fighting, so that made perfect sense.

Zevox

[BRC]

One of the weaknesses of Dragon Age was, in my opinion anyway, that the protagonist was too "Blank Slate". Bioware did a great job of crafting these stories, but that was at the expense of having the warden be a good character in-game.
You could say "I was the second son of the Dwarven King who was betrayed by his brother and framed for a crime I Didn't commit! Banished and sent to die, I joined the Grey Wardens. Now, I seek to both save Ferelden from the Blight and clear my name"
Now, that's a great backstory, but when I'm playing, I don't feel like I'm that character. I feel like I'm just a dwarf running around hitting things with my axe.
Contrast with Shepard from ME, his/her backstory is pretty much irrelevant to the game, but he/she feels like much more of a character in-game. This is because they don't start Shepard at the beginning of his/her journey, you start controlling Shepard when he/she is already a renowned soldier under consideration to be the first human spectre. By starting you at this point, they are able to assume more about Shepard, and such are able to make him/her a much better character in gameplay.

With Dragon Age, by making a game where you could play so many different characters, they made a game where you barely played a character at all.

With Dragon Age 2 it sounds like they're narrowing the scope, starting you at a set point with a Human character, letting them craft a better story around your character. No longer do they need to make a story so generic they can fit any character into it.

[VanBuren]

I mean that it compels the person it's for.

It doesn't need to do anything for you. It's not about you, only the generic scene with Duncan and Weisshaupt Fortress is. Whether the vision makes the character happy or miserable is unimportant to whether it exerts an emotional hold on them. And, for that matter, whether (Morrigan) the character even believes or cares about the vision turns out not to matter to whether they can leave. The only one who can leave his/her vision without help is you. You want to think that means that you're an incredible badass instead of that Bioware was lazy and didn't care about making sense, go ahead.

The problem is for all Bioware knows, your PC hated his origin story and would've been all "screw this I'm outta here". It's too much effort for something so trivial.

[Kish]

The problem is for all Bioware knows, your PC hated his origin story and would've been all "screw this I'm outta here".

I suppose that would explain it. After all, it's not like you can tell "Duncan" that you find what he's offering you unappealing. Oh wait.

I really don't get why, "Bioware was lazy in giving the PC a generic dreamscape, and there is no in-game justification for the PC and only the PC being able to escape his/her dreamscape" are controversial assertions.

[FoE]

The problem is for all Bioware knows, your PC hated his origin story and would've been all "screw this I'm outta here". It's too much effort for something so trivial.

Agreed.

So, while visiting that bastion of calm logic and sensibility known as the official forums, I see that they're already crying "RUINED FOREVER!" about DA2. The only information we've been presented at this point is that the game will involve a human, his/her name will be Hawke (which will probably be a surname) and that the same classes from the first game will be there.

Of course, so far it's been decided that there won't be any darkspawn, the character won't a Grey Warden, there won't be any other species other than humans and the character won't be involved in any world-changing plots. All of which is based on an amount of description that you could fit on a bubblegum wrapper.


I really don't get why, "Bioware was lazy in giving the PC a generic dreamscape, and there is no in-game justification for the PC and only the PC being able to escape his/her dreamscape" are controversial assertions.

Controversy? I just don't agree with you.

[Zevox]

The problem is for all Bioware knows, your PC hated his origin story and would've been all "screw this I'm outta here". It's too much effort for something so trivial.
That's more a problem with the entire "blank-slate PC" archetype in general, really.

Zevox

[Kish]

Of course, so far it's been decided that there won't be any darkspawn, the character won't a Grey Warden, there won't be any other species other than humans and the character won't be involved in any world-changing plots. All of which is based on an amount of description that you could fit on a bubblegum wrapper.
Three of those actually sound good to me, and the fourth sounds real unlikely.

(Yes, I know all four of them are actually pretty unlikely. And my opinion of "guaranteed human protagonist" is unprintable.)

Edited in response to an edit:


Controversy? I just don't agree with you.
And I should probably let it go at that, but I'm too puzzled. Why, in your view, is Morrigan unable to leave her dream without the PC's help--in strictly in-game terms? Since you don't agree that the obvious non-controversial answer is "there is no in-game reason, the protagonist escapes because s/he is the protagonist."

[Avilan the Grey]

Agreed.

So, while visiting that bastion of calm logic and sensibility known as the official forums, I see that they're already crying "RUINED FOREVER!" about DA2. The only information we've been presented at this point is that the game will involve a human, his/her name will be Hawke (which will probably be a surname) and that the same classes from the first game will be there.

Of course, so far it's been decided that there won't be any darkspawn, the character won't a Grey Warden, there won't be any other species other than humans and the character won't be involved in any world-changing plots.

*LOL*

Despite my own disappointment, I quickly found myself defending Bioware and explaining the new setting for people over there.

I do find the "I hate it because the character won't be a Grey Warden" complaint the hardest to understand for me. I also find the "Since I cannot PLAY as a Dwarf, Bioware have killed off all dwarves!" thing laughable. It is extremely likely that there will be both Elven, Dwarven, Qunari and others in your ragtag team. They will just not be the main character.

Oh and the last one you point out? It says there RIGHT ON THE TIN, that this character, from DA2, will be the most powerful (and therefore world-changing!) character in the Dragon Age universe, ever, by the end of the game.

[FoE]

And I should probably let it go at that, but I'm too puzzled. Why, in your view, is Morrigan unable to leave her dream without the PC's help--in strictly in-game terms? Since you don't agree that the obvious non-controversial answer is "there is no in-game reason."

Most of the islands within the Sloth Demon's domain were isolated from the others. It wasn't until you slew the demons on the adjacent islands that Morrigan's nightmare became accessible.

In any case, she was clearly trying to get rid of the Fade spirit when you got there. Maybe you got there before she finally decided to kill the annoying creature. Had she done so, Morrigan might have gotten free.

[Arcanoi]

You're a Dragon God. I can see you rocking "More important than Andraste" by level 10.

[Avilan the Grey]

Um, gack. You're supposed to outdo Andraste for importance to the Dragon Age world in Dragon Age 2?

...I look forward to seeing how they pull that off.

They might mean powerful in a political or military sense, not religious. We'll see.


You're a Dragon God. I can see you rocking "More important than Andraste" by level 10.

It is confirmed from WoG that you are NOT Morrigan's child.

[Kish]

Um, gack. You're supposed to outdo Andraste for importance to the Dragon Age world in Dragon Age 2?

...I look forward to seeing how they pull that off.

For one, most of the islands within the Sloth Demon's domain were isolated from the others. It wasn't until you slew the demons on the adjacent islands that Morrigan's nightmare became accessible.

Sealed from your side also means sealed from her side? Of the four people the Sloth Demon imprisons, exactly one (coincidentally, you) is imprisoned in a generic dream which can be exited without help from outside? What part of this is supposed to make sense from an in-character perspective?


In any case, she was clearly trying to get rid of the Fade spirit when you got there. Maybe you got there before she finally decided to kill the annoying creature.
No matter how long you took to get there--which, as you note, has to be long enough to complete two of the areas, and which can be long enough to complete every area except Morrigan's--she spends the whole time arguing and waiting for you to come rescue her and that makes perfect in-game sense and isn't at all arbitrary, hm?

[Arcanoi]

It is confirmed from WoG that you are NOT Morrigan's child.

THIS SADDENS ME IMMENSELY.

[Zevox]

Um, gack. You're supposed to outdo Andraste for importance to the Dragon Age world in Dragon Age 2?

...I look forward to seeing how they pull that off.
More likely they're simply fond of using hyperbole in their advertisements. Most advertising seems to be.

Zevox

[Avilan the Grey]

No matter how long you took to get there--which, as you note, has to be long enough to complete two of the areas, and which can be long enough to complete every area except Morrigan's--she spends the whole time arguing and waiting for you to come rescue her and that makes perfect in-game sense and isn't at all arbitrary, hm?

You know, there are tons of things that you can argue about, but this particular one? Not so much. The fact that most things in CRPGs move at the speed "Take Your Time (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeYourTime)" is established enough that most people (me included) get very frustrated when you come across a quest without it.



More likely they're simply fond of using hyperbole in their advertisements. Most advertising seems to be.

Zevox

Heh. Yeah, I mean according to commercials, you can actually EAT at McDonalds. :smallbiggrin:

[FoE]

The Nightmares were sealed from the outside until the demons on the adjacent islands were destroyed. I'm not sure why I needed to clarify that, as that's what happened in-game.

I would also say that they were sealed from the inside by the demons sharing each companion's Nightmare. Everyone in your party (except for Shale and Dog) was able to leave their Nightmare once they defeated the demons sharing that island of the Fade. Likewise, you were only able to leave once the fake "Duncan" and the other fake Grey Wardens were killed.

So why didn't Morry kill the fake Flemeth sooner? Well, there was a key difference between what the Warden and Morrigan encountered. When the Warden challenged his/her illusion, the demon masquerading as Duncan attacked him out of frustration. When Morrigan defied her own Nightmare, "Flemeth" persisted in being "motherly."

Maybe Morrigan simply didn't realize how to escape; there was no obvious entrance or exit, after all. Or maybe she just continued bickering with the fake "Flemeth" because that was what came natural to her.

I don't really see anything in the advertising that says you're going to be the most important figure in Thedan history EVAR. The indication is that you will be involved in a world-changing quest, but … so was the Warden from the first game.

[Giggling Ghast]

Also, ALSO! I heard that there won't be any dragons in the new game. Well, there's a dragon in the cover art but the main character isn't a dragon or riding a dragon so there must be no dragons in DA2.

I love the one guy I just saw on the forums who said that even though they barely heard anything about the new game, "what we heard was HUGELY DISAPPOINTING!"

lolz :smalltongue:

[Lord Raziere]

I reserve my judgment of anything about Dragon Age 2 until I've played it. Hype/anti-hype can distort things, so its wiser not to listen to it.

[Revya]

Uh, okay. I don't really recall any problems with being overpowered in cutscenes in Origins, at least unless you count at Ostagar, where you were up against an entire army and still pretty new to fighting, so that made perfect sense.

There's also the sloth demon, Witherfang (slightly), a tree (slightly), and the silver mines. Probably a few more. I know it's not a big deal at all. Still, if cutscenes are going to take control away from the player, I'd rather they be positive for the protagonist.


Three of those actually sound good to me, and the fourth sounds real unlikely.

(Yes, I know all four of them are actually pretty unlikely. And my opinion of "guaranteed human protagonist" is unprintable.)

I thought so. I'm sorry.


Um, gack. You're supposed to outdo Andraste for importance to the Dragon Age world in Dragon Age 2?

...I look forward to seeing how they pull that off.

Me too, though I think we mean that in different ways...



I love the one guy I just saw on the forums who said that even though they barely heard anything about the new game, "what we heard was HUGELY DISAPPOINTING!"

I see what you're saying and I'm looking forward to DA2, but there are things we've heard about the game. Straight from the horse's mouth. For example, whether your reaction to a human-only protagonist is "WTH?" or "Freakin' sweet!" I don't believe it's unfair to form an opinion on that design decision.

[Zevox]

There's also the sloth demon, Witherfang (slightly), a tree (slightly), and the silver mines. Probably a few more. I know it's not a big deal at all. Still, if cutscenes are going to take control away from the player, I'd rather they be positive for the protagonist.
I don't know what you're referring to with Witherfang or the tree, but I fail to see how being overcome by magic against which you had no defense in the other two cases is a big deal.

Zevox

[Giggling Ghast]

I see what you're saying and I'm looking forward to DA2, but there are things we've heard about the game. Straight from the horse's mouth. For example, whether your reaction to a human-only protagonist is "WTH?" or "Freakin' sweet!" I don't believe it's unfair to form an opinion on that design decision.

Oh sure, but keep in mind that you're still going on very little information. You know with certainty that the main character will be human, which may or may not be a good thing. You also know that human's name. But that's it. You don't even know what extent that human character will be customizable. It doesn't mean the game is destined for failure.

I remember when there was a thread on this very forum proclaiming that ME2 was going to be ruined — RUINED I SAY! — by the presence of Jack. Because the trailer introducing her was kind of sucky and, therefore, she was going to be the worst character ever.


I don't know what you're referring to with Witherfang

Maybe the part where you're advancing on Swiftrunner and Witherfang jumps off that cliff to block your path?

[Revya]

I don't know what you're referring to with Witherfang or the tree, but I fail to see how being overcome by magic against which you had no defense in the other two cases is a big deal.

Zevox

I know. As I said, I realize it's not a big deal. I'd just rather not see the main character defeated in cutscenes. Ah, going back to where this began, all I mean is that I would fully support for Hawke to be a crazy damn action hero in the Dragon Age 2's cutscenes. It's an acquired taste.



Maybe the part where you're advancing on Swiftrunner and Witherfang jumps off that cliff to block your path?

Ohhh, was that all? Never mind then. I got that scene confused with something from Jade Empire. Ouch. Edit: Oh, and thanks!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Who's Hawke and what's this about a Dragon Age 2 having humans only? :smallconfused:

[Revya]

Who's Hawke and what's this about a Dragon Age 2 having humans only? :smallconfused:

Hawke is the protagonist of Dragon Age 2. They can be either male or female, but the only selectable race is human. You can probably choose his or her appearance and first name, but that isn't confirmed. The game won't have only humans. It's just that the protagonist can only be human. Think KotOR, KotOR 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, yeah. It's pretty common actually.

[FoE]

Aside from all this other crap, I saw something on TV Tropes that made me chuckle. Ever ask Leliana about her vision from the Maker, which ends with her seeing a "single, beautiful rose" in the Chantry's garden? Somebody in the main entry suggested that it may be the same rose given to the female Warden by Alistair.

Probably not, but it's a cute idea.

[Avilan the Grey]

Aside from all this other crap, I saw something on TV Tropes that made me chuckle. Ever ask Leliana about her vision from the Maker, which ends with her seeing a "single, beautiful rose" in the Chantry's garden? Somebody in the main entry suggested that it may be the same rose given to the female Warden by Alistair.

Probably not, but it's a cute idea.

It's not; he found it growing by a corpse, I think. But it is a cute idea.

I think this might be (from what little we know) between DA:O and DA:2: In O, your are the chosen one. In DA2, you are working for yourself, mostly. You are trying to build yourself a better life, not save the world per se (at least not from the get-go. I am sure there will be some world-threatening going on in there somewhere).

[FoE]

It's not; he found it growing by a corpse, I think. But it is a cute idea.

By a corpse? No. He just says he picked it in Lothering, though he doesn't specify the exact location.

"I remember thinking 'How could something so beautiful exist in a place with so much despair and ugliness?'"

It's disturbing that I could write that from memory.

[Avilan the Grey]

By a corpse? No. He just says he picked it in Lothering, though he doesn't specify the exact location.

"I remember thinking 'How could something so beautiful exist in a place with so much despair and ugliness?'"

It's disturbing that I could write that from memory.

You are right!!

Now we have to ask where he kept it for so long...!

[Kish]

The Nightmares were sealed from the outside until the demons on the adjacent islands were destroyed. I'm not sure why I needed to clarify that, as that's what happened in-game.

Because it's irrelevant to Morrigan's, or any companion's, ability to escape from her/his own dreamscape. You provided it as an answer to, "Why, in your view, is Morrigan unable to leave her dream without the PC's help--in strictly in-game terms?"

You know, there are tons of things that you can argue about, but this particular one? Not so much. The fact that most things in CRPGs move at the speed "Take Your Time (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeYourTime)" is established enough that most people (me included) get very frustrated when you come across a quest without it.
I don't mind the protagonist being the only one who can escape from the Fade on his/her own. I mind the insistence that it makes sense from an in-game perspective when the reason is, blatantly, that s/he is the protagonist, and nothing else.

If you disagree and wish to debate the subject, then you should supply an in-game reason, not talk about the out-of-game one which we both know about.

[Scorpina]

I'm not wild about Humans-only for DA2, but I can deal. So long as Hawke's character isn't to prescriptive, anyway.

[mangosta71]

Yeah, I'll have to see how it turns out. I'm a little sad because, of all the characters I played, I identified most with my city elf rogue (though that may be because he was my first character and I wasn't trying to follow a specific moral path, so he was more like me than any of the others).