Hidden Sorcerer

[FallenWarriorIV]

In the campaign I'm playing in, I'm a sorcerer who doesn't like other people to know his full potential. I'm trying to find a way to make it so that NPCs don't know that I'm the one casting spells. I can do it with three metamagic feats (still spell, silent spell, and deceptive spell) with a +3 to all spell levels, but I'm looking for something with less drawbacks. This is mainly for RP purposes, and any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

[Optimystik]

Psionics are your best bet, so you can avoid all the gestures and gobbledygook while keeping the casting.

In fact, be a Tibbit Psion - now you're a housecat. Be the "familiar" of a Commoner wearing extremely garish robes and a pointy hat, no one will ever suspect you.

[Solophoenix]

Complete Scoundrel has a skill trick called Conceal Spellcasting. If I recall correctly, it does what you want.

[Fouredged Sword]

Arcane thisis can drop the metamagic cost for one metamagic ability by one level. This is what you are looking for. Also see invisable spell. Get it for each and apply them to everything for free. That takes three more feats though.

[Optimystik]

Complete Scoundrel has a skill trick called Conceal Spellcasting. If I recall correctly, it does what you want.

The trouble with skill tricks - they are only 1/encounter.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you really want to confuse people, still spell makes arcane failure not an issue. Put on some full plate and look like a warrior.

[Solophoenix]

The trouble with skill tricks - they are only 1/encounter.

You need more than one spell to end an encounter now? :smalltongue:

[lsfreak]

If you really want to confuse people, still spell makes arcane failure not an issue. Put on some full plate and look like a warrior.

And pay the cost to the tough guy for glamored armor, a huge spellbook, and a few holy symbols.

EDIT: Invisibility could potentially work, depending on how often enemies see your invisibility and how often you use attack spells. Once they see you it should be obvious, but before then they might not even know you're there.

[Snake-Aes]

The only way to reliably cast and not look like you're casting is a psionic character. ALl you have to do is a dc 15+level concentration check to cast without any display. And failure just means you didn't conceal the casting. If you find armor proficiencies, you can even wear them to further the ruse.

[arguskos]

Invisible Spell seems useful as well, as a good way to hide your spells themselves. That plus Deceptive Spell makes for hilarity.

[Fouredged Sword]

The invisable spell metamagic feat makes your spells themselves invisable. That with something like solid fog is a good trick for a group.

[dextercorvia]

Arcane thisis can drop the metamagic cost for one metamagic ability by one level. This is what you are looking for. Also see invisable spell. Get it for each and apply them to everything for free. That takes three more feats though.

You are thinking of Practical Metamagic or Easy Metamagic. These reduce the level bump by one, but only to a minimum increase of 1. This doesn't help with Still/Silent.

Arcane Thesis reduces the metamagic cost on a single spell by one for each metamagic feat applied to it, to a minimum total cost of 0. This would work, but only for the spell you take Arcane Thesis for.

I recommend the Conceal Casting skill trick, and Invisible Spell. Also, just hide the bodies of those that see you.

[nedz]

Go Ethereal and use Transdimensional Spell

[the humanity]

The trouble with skill tricks - they are only 1/encounter.

why not homebrew it into a feat?

[Optimystik]

The invisable spell metamagic feat makes your spells themselves invisable. That with something like solid fog is a good trick for a group.

The spell itself is invisible, but passersby can still see you staring, waving your hands and speaking mumbo-jumbo.

Also, the mundane effects of your spells are not invisible (e.g. an invisible fireball ignites a cottage with visible flames.)


Go Ethereal and use Transdimensional Spell

That won't work - TD-Spell is only Material -> Ethereal by RAW, not the other way around.


why not homebrew it into a feat?

Well if homebrew is allowed our problems are solved, just have your verbal and somatic components be unnoticeable and you're set.

[nedz]

Go Ethereal and use Transdimensional Spell

That won't work - TD-Spell is only Material -> Ethereal by RAW, not the other way around.

Where do you get this from ?
CArc p 84 states ..., coexistant planes, ...
Nothing in the Errata !

[Optimystik]

Where do you get this from ?
CArc p 84 states ..., coexistant planes, ...
Nothing in the Errata !

Read the text of the feat itself.


Benefit: A transdimensional spell has its full normal effect on incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal Plane or the Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an extradimensional space in the spell’s area. Such creatures include ethereal creatures, creatures that are blinking or shadow walking, manifested ghosts, and creatures within the extradimensional space of a rope trick, portable hole, or familiar pocket (see page 106).

It says nothing about such spells working on the material when cast from the ethereal/astral/shadow.

[nedz]

Read the text of the feat itself.


I have, it says


You can cast spells that affect targets lurking in coexitent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the spell area.

And then the section you quoted.



It says nothing about such spells working on the material when cast from the ethereal/astral/shadow.
But the more specific section doesn't contradict the more general header section, in short it doesn't say that it can't effect the prime from the ethereal either.

Perhaps this is a question of interpretation, but I think it does work by RAW.

[Snake-Aes]

Coexistent planes really strikes as "all within the constraint", which would be ethereal, material and, maybe, shadow.

Would be fun to play a wizard where all spells are transdimensional, which would accidentally pissing off extraplanar entities.

[nedz]

Coexistent planes really strikes as "all within the constraint", which would be ethereal, material and, maybe, shadow.
And incorporeal and anyone hiding in a rope trick etc.


Would be fun to play a wizard where all spells are transdimensional, which would accidentally pissing off extraplanar entities.
That would be an amusing characterisation.

[Optimystik]

But the more specific section doesn't contradict the more general header section, in short it doesn't say that it can't effect the prime from the ethereal either.

Perhaps this is a question of interpretation, but I think it does work by RAW.

The "general header section," as you put it, is flavor text. The actual benefit of the feat is marked by the bolded "Benefit:" immediately preceding it.

In any event, in order to be ethereal all day long, the answer is still Psion - specifically, Meditant.

[Milskidasith]

Be an insane/spastic character with invisible spell. Constantly shout gibberish while not in a conversation and flail about at all times.

Any time you cast a spell, they just thing you've gone nuts again.

[Lysander]

One option is to pick a spell list that lends itself to being concealed. I suggest enchantments, buffs of all schools, illusions.

-Enchantments: If successful, your enemies may not be in a mental state to identify you as a spellcaster. Use amnesia spells to cover your tracks when necessary.
-Buffs: Cast them before you see enemies, or step out of view before casting them on yourself or an ally.
-Illusions: Use illusory walls, bushes, etc to hide your spellcasting from view. When you need to cast spells in the open, use disguise spells to conceal your identity so people don't know it was you.

[Wonton]

What about the enemy not even knowing you're there? How about Greater Invisibility?

[HunterOfJello]

Invisible Spell Metamagic + Conceal Spellcasting = Surprise Fireballs!


You can also take levels of the Shadowcraft Mage PrC

[Optimystik]

Invisible Spell Metamagic + Conceal Spellcasting = Surprise Fireball!

Fixed - you can only Conceal Spellcasting for the first shot.

[Fouredged Sword]

Invisible Spell Metamagic + Conceal Spellcasting + Greater Invisibility = Surprise Fireballs!


There you go

[Optimystik]

There you go

You need a way to silence them after the first one.

[playswithfire]

This might not be what you're looking for, but there is the spell Translocation Trick from Spell Compendium. Pick an ally or random passerby, or maybe even a cohort whose lackey you pretend to be; swap locations and appearance with them for 10 min/level and make it look like they're doing all the heavy casting.

4th level spell though. I have no idea what level your sorcerer is.

[Darrin]

Play a Tibbit or a Hengeyokai cat. Get a hireling to act like a spellcaster (ranks of perform, profession: actor, etc.) while you play the role of a familiar. If the hireling gets in trouble, have him repeatedly claim "the cat did it" (Diplomacy roll because it's a truthful statement, and have him intentionally fail it so it looks like he's lying). If something horrible happens to the hireling, hire another one, and loudly proclaim any discrepancies with his appearance as some sort of evil outsider plot to discredit his reputation.

[Cyclocone]

You could open up with Mislead and have the image stand around twiddling its thumbs.

Alternatively, use a Silent Whispercasting on all your spells. Whispercasting is LoM and Unseen Seer from CMag gives Silent Spell for cheap.

Or you could get a Ring of Silent Spells and some Bracers of Arcane Freedom (both from MIC), which will let you still-silent your spells a couple of times per day.

[nedz]

The "general header section," as you put it, is flavor text. The actual benefit of the feat is marked by the bolded "Benefit:" immediately preceding following it.
The Benefit and Normal Sections clearly apply to casters on the Material plane. These sections are silent on Ethereal and other planes.


In any event, in order to be ethereal all day long, the answer is still Psion - specifically, Meditant.

Or take one level of Fiend of Possession.

[Optimystik]

The Benefit and Normal Sections clearly apply to casters on the Material plane. These sections are silent on Ethereal and other planes.

Right, which means default rules apply - and the default rules are that on the Ethereal, your spells cannot affect the Material Plane at all.

Spells function normally on the Ethereal Plane, though they do not cross into the Material Plane. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm)

[nedz]

Right, which means default rules apply - and the default rules are that on the Ethereal, your spells cannot affect the Material Plane at all.

Spells function normally on the Ethereal Plane, though they do not cross into the Material Plane. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm)

This is a pointless debate because you insist on regarding rules which disagree with you as fluff. I shall say no more.

[Lysander]

You could also just pull off a Clark Kent/Superman type of deception. Maintain a two or more different identities, and only be seen casting spells in some of them. A Hat of Disguise is a cheap way to alter your appearance at will all day long.

Another misdirection tactic is just keeping a few different fake "magic items" and making it seem like they're the source of all your power. People will still know you have magic, but they might not realize you're a sorcerer.

[Ilmryn]

You are thinking of Practical Metamagic or Easy Metamagic. These reduce the level bump by one, but only to a minimum increase of 1. This doesn't help with Still/Silent.

I have seen these feats(?) mentioned several times. Where can they be found?

[Eldariel]

I have seen these feats(?) mentioned several times. Where can they be found?

Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magazine (or Crystalkeep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php)) respectively. Practical Metamagic requires Dragonblood-type; you can get that from Dragonborn or e.g. Dragontouched feat. Easy Metamagic has no such requirements making it much, much stronger.

[JeenLeen]

In addition to Invisible Spell, there's another metamagic feat from Cityscape that causes spells to come from a different direction. So your fireball doesn't come from a bead in your hand that explodes, but from either a random or your choice (I forget which) direction. Lightning bolts shoot from the sky or gound, not your fingertips, that sort of thing.

Still and Silent Spell are probably your best metamagic for really hiding, although having one feat alone is obviously less feat-intensive a feat and easier to combine with metamagic reducers. Getting a rod of a metamagic you want can help you a lot by saving you the feat. If your DM allows, I suppose you could buy multiple rods and trade them out as you use them... but then you are walking around holding a suspiciously magical-looking walking stick.

[Optimystik]

This is a pointless debate because you insist on regarding rules which disagree with you as fluff. I shall say no more.

This is a pointless debate if you consider fluff to be rules. I shall say no more.

[balistafreak]

The invisable spell metamagic feat makes your spells themselves invisable. That with something like solid fog is a good trick for a group.

Thought for the day: Invisible Summon Monster/Nature's Ally. :smallcool:

@arguskos: Pssh, Hengeyokai Cat? Sparrow all the way, dude. Hengeyokai Sparrow Warlocks are made of love, win, and awesome.

I mean, you're a bird. With frickin' laser beams.

... darn it, why is there no Hengeyokai Shark? :smalltongue:


This is a pointless debate if you consider fluff to be rules. I shall say no more.

+1 Optimystik. There was an argument about bad stuff happening with extradimensional space overlap because there was a phrase that said something like "this is hazardous" - but without further elaboration. Someone or the other insisted this meant that something had to happen.

Fluff =!= rules. While it may not always be sane, these are the boards, where anything that isn't hard fact is on extremely thin ice.

[dextercorvia]

I have seen these feats(?) mentioned several times. Where can they be found?



Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magazine (or Crystalkeep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php)) respectively. Practical Metamagic requires Dragonblood-type; you can get that from Dragonborn or e.g. Dragontouched feat. Easy Metamagic has no such requirements making it much, much stronger.

You can also get Dragonblood type from Silverbrow human, which doesn't cost the feat. But Easy is still favorable since Practical requires ability to spontaneously cast 3rd level arcane spells, which puts you at 6th level before you can take it without cheese. This rules it out for Wizards unless they build to specifically benefit from things like this, and you know what else you qualify for at 6th level? Arcane Thesis.

[Optimystik]

You can also get Dragonblood type from Silverbrow human, which doesn't cost the feat. But Easy is still favorable since Practical requires ability to spontaneously cast 3rd level arcane spells, which puts you at 6th level before you can take it without cheese. This rules it out for Wizards unless they build to specifically benefit from things like this, and you know what else you qualify for at 6th level? Arcane Thesis.

Wizards have ways to get spontaneous casting IIRC, e.g. Spontaneous Divination.

[Telonius]

Ventriloquism. "Behold, I am the mighty invisible sorcerer! Pay no attention to the other guy in the pointy hat." So that takes away the need for Silent Spell.

[Yzzyx]

In the campaign I'm playing in, I'm a sorcerer who doesn't like other people to know his full potential. I'm trying to find a way to make it so that NPCs don't know that I'm the one casting spells. I can do it with three metamagic feats (still spell, silent spell, and deceptive spell) with a +3 to all spell levels, but I'm looking for something with less drawbacks. This is mainly for RP purposes, and any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.

I don't know why it never seems to be mentioned, but Races of Stone lists disguising spell components (it talks about muttering under your breath and moving your hands in your sleeves) as being a use of Sleight of Hand (SoH opposed by Spot).

[CubeB]

Hm...

Let me make a pitiful attempt at creating a feat.
Subtle Sorcerer[Metamagic]
The ability to cast spells come so naturally to you, you're able to pass off as if it were nothing.
Prerequisite: Ability to spontaneously cast spells or spell-like abilities. 4 Ranks in Bluff
Benefit: When casting a spell, make a Bluff Check with a bonus equal to your Caster Level. On a result of 15 or higher, the spell effect appears to have occurred spontaneously. (Fireballs look like spontaneous combustion. Summoned creatures appear from bushes and dark corners.) The target of the spell, as well as anyone directly looking at the caster, is entitled to a Sense Motive check to determine the source of the spell. The normal restrictions of spellcasting still apply. (Verbal, Material, and Somatic Components, any attacks of opportunity provoked, arcane spell failure chance, etc.)

[dextercorvia]

Wizards have ways to get spontaneous casting IIRC, e.g. Spontaneous Divination.


You can also get Dragonblood type from Silverbrow human, which doesn't cost the feat. But Easy is still favorable since Practical requires ability to spontaneously cast 3rd level arcane spells, which puts you at 6th level before you can take it without cheese. This rules it out for Wizards unless they build to specifically benefit from things like this, and you know what else you qualify for at 6th level? Arcane Thesis.

fillerfillerfillerfillerfillerfiller

[Optimystik]

Hm...

Let me make a pitiful attempt at creating a feat.
Subtle Sorcerer[Metamagic]
The ability to cast spells come so naturally to you, you're able to pass off as if it were nothing.
Prerequisite: Ability to spontaneously cast spells or spell-like abilities. 4 Ranks in Bluff
Benefit: When casting a spell, make a Bluff Check with a bonus equal to your Caster Level. On a result of 15 or higher, the spell effect appears to have occurred spontaneously. (Fireballs look like spontaneous combustion. Summoned creatures appear from bushes and dark corners.) The target of the spell, as well as anyone directly looking at the caster, is entitled to a Sense Motive check to determine the source of the spell. The normal restrictions of spellcasting still apply. (Verbal, Material, and Somatic Components, any attacks of opportunity provoked, arcane spell failure chance, etc.)

1) Sorcerers can qualify for this feat at level 1.
2) Why would they need a bonus to Bluff? It's a class skill for Sorcerers.


fillerfillerfillerfillerfillerfiller

I wasn't contradicting you, merely providing an example.

[Benejeseret]

Runesmith 1 lvl dip gives you still spell (and thus avoid armour failure) for free on all spells and some Geomancer levels lets you avoid all spell components

(ie, not holding them and thus easier to mask...although no one ever thinks about this because even a still/silent/deceptive spell still requires you to hold the components or focus otherwise)

[dextercorvia]

I wasn't contradicting you, merely providing an example.

Ah, sorry about that. Carry on then.

[FallenWarriorIV]

You guys are beyond awesome. Thank you so much for all your help.

[CubeB]

1) Sorcerers can qualify for this feat at level 1.
2) Why would they need a bonus to Bluff? It's a class skill for Sorcerers.



I wasn't contradicting you, merely providing an example.


1) That was the point.

2) I told you it was a pitiful attempt. I suck at featmaking.

[FallenWarriorIV]

I don't know why it never seems to be mentioned, but Races of Stone lists disguising spell components (it talks about muttering under your breath and moving your hands in your sleeves) as being a use of Sleight of Hand (SoH opposed by Spot).

Do you know where exactly this is found? It seems to be hiding from me.

[Yzzyx]

Do you know where exactly this is found? It seems to be hiding from me.

It's on page 133 of Races of Stone.

[FallenWarriorIV]

That looks like the exact same thing as the skill trick 'Conceal Spellcasting' except it can be used more than once per encounter. Does that mean the skill trick is useless? Or am I reading things wrong?

[Beorn080]

For material components, there is Eschew Materials. Very useful if your polymorphing, and it is automatically applied to all spells. Though it does remove your ability to have unlimited tarts.