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For Valor
2010-06-23, 09:55 PM
So... I was reading The Complete Book of Eldritch Might, written by Monte Cook (I'm not sure if it counts as a WotC book, though) which expanded on arcane magic being awesome with arcane spells and whatnot. In it, I saw a feat called "Item Image", where you can bond an item to a tattoo on a person, and that item comes out when they will it as a Free Action.

That item, when the select character wields it, gives him a bonus (there was a short list in the book). One of these bonuses was +2 caster level.

This got me thinking... what other ridiculous ways can you pump your caster level? This is here to see how far you can pump your cast level. I know of Orange Ioun stones, an item tattooed into your arm, and some other feats. The question is, how far can you take it?

Show me your madness!

Bakkan
2010-06-23, 10:21 PM
For an arena game I managed to create a character (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=157104) who had a caster level of 7 for Scorching Ray -- at level 1

Race: Human
Class: Fire Domain Wizard -- +1 CL for certain spells (scorching ray is one of them), Unearthed Arcana
Trait: Spellgifted(Evocation) -- +1 CL Evocation, -1 CL non-Evocation, Unearthed Arcana
Feat: Bloodline of Fire -- +2 CL [Fire] spells, Player's Guide to Faerun
Feat: Elemental Spellcasting -- +1 CL [Fire] spells, Planar Handbook
Feat: Spell Thematics -- +1 CL to one spell per spell level (choose scorching ray for level 2), Player's Guide to Faerun
Feat: Precocious Apprentice(scorching ray), Complete Arcane

So with this you get a caster level of 1+1+1+2+1+1 = 7 for scorching ray, which is enough for 2 bolts, each dealing 4d6 fire damage with a successful touch attack. The downside is that you have a caster level of 0 for all non-Evocation, non-[Fire] spells, which I believe will prevent you from casting them.

Hague
2010-06-23, 10:45 PM
Caster level can't be reduced below one. You end up dividing by zero somewhere eventually, which turns the DM into a black hole.

Bakkan
2010-06-23, 10:49 PM
That's actually good to know. In case a DM challenges this, does anyone have a reference to that rule?

Jarveiyan
2010-06-24, 01:12 AM
Archmage gives you the chance to pump your casting level by 5, however it takes spell slots to accomplish(and your not getting them back). Some domains add to caster level for certain school spells. There was a bard,wizard,sorcerer scarred lands book that had some feats which added casting levels when using the spells you canget by those feats(iirc).

Wonton
2010-06-24, 01:35 AM
For an arena game I managed to create a character (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=157104) who had a caster level of 7 for Scorching Ray -- at level 1

Race: Human
Class: Fire Domain Wizard -- +1 CL for certain spells (scorching ray is one of them), Unearthed Arcana
Trait: Spellgifted(Evocation) -- +1 CL Evocation, -1 CL non-Evocation, Unearthed Arcana
Feat: Bloodline of Fire -- +2 CL [Fire] spells, Player's Guide to Faerun
Feat: Elemental Spellcasting -- +1 CL [Fire] spells, Planar Handbook
Feat: Spell Thematics -- +1 CL to one spell per spell level (choose scorching ray for level 2), Player's Guide to Faerun
Feat: Precocious Apprentice(scorching ray), Complete Arcane

So with this you get a caster level of 1+1+1+2+1+1 = 7 for scorching ray, which is enough for 2 bolts, each dealing 4d6 fire damage with a successful touch attack. The downside is that you have a caster level of 0 for all non-Evocation, non-[Fire] spells, which I believe will prevent you from casting them.

Am I missing something, or did you have CL 7 with Scorching Ray... despite not being able to cast it? :smallconfused:

Ah. Precocious Apprentice. That's an interesting feat. I might consider taking that on a future character, just for fun (retrain it once it becomes useless).

P.S. You could have done it with Combust for even more damage. Close range is only marginally better than melee.

Bakkan
2010-06-24, 01:49 AM
Am I missing something, or did you have CL 7 with Scorching Ray... despite not being able to cast it? :smallconfused:

Ah. Precocious Apprentice. That's an interesting feat. I might consider taking that on a future character, just for fun (retrain it once it becomes useless).

P.S. You could have done it with Combust for even more damage. Close range is only marginally better than melee.

Unfortunately, the Fire Domain wizard only gains his +1 CL with certain fixed spells, namely Burning Hands and Scorching Ray for spell levels 1-2. With Combust, you would only have 6d8 damage, resulting in one less expected damage from the hit than if you hit with scorching ray. Additionally, it requires you to make a melee touch attack which is keyed off of strength, which will likely be less than dex. At lower levels, this can be important.

Additionally, you have a 40 ft. range with scorching ray with this build, which theoretically allows you to fire it off and run out of charging range if you've got a decent speed.

This build is definitely designed primarily to be very impressive at level 1. By level 3, there are far more devastating things a wizard can do.

For Valor
2010-06-24, 03:52 PM
That's a pretty awesome level 1 build...

Jarvaiyen, would you happen to have any idea what those books are/where they came from?

Eldariel
2010-06-24, 04:00 PM
Few simple means to boost your Caster Level:
- Beads of Karma [DMG]: You can UMD it as an arcane caster. +4 for 10 mins.
- Orange Prism Ioun Stone [DMG]: +1 for 30k
- Ring of Arcane Power [MiC]: +1 for 20k
- Robe of Arcane Power [MiC]: +1 Competence to 1 school for 20k
- Spell Enhancer [SpC]: +2 CL to next spell you cast the round this spell is cast.
- Create Magical Tattoo [SpC]: +1 CL Tattoo exists

Off the top of my head. And various feats, of course.

Lycanthromancer
2010-06-24, 04:22 PM
There's the cheesy ol' standby of greater consumptive field. Have a commoner cohort with Quick Draw and the Infested With Chickens flaw, cast a greater consumptive field while your cohort toss chickens at you, then once you reach the maximum caster level with greater consumptive field, cast it again. The two castings won't stack, but the second casting will be at a much higher caster level, meaning its total caster level boost will be greater. Then cast it again. And again. Then finish with an Extended, Persistent field. Then start casting whatever spells you like over the next two days.

Also, sublime chord will let you boost your caster level with a Perform check.

Eldariel
2010-06-24, 04:39 PM
There's the cheesy ol' standby of greater consumptive field. Have a commoner cohort with Quick Draw and the Infested With Chickens flaw, cast a greater consumptive field while your cohort toss chickens at you, then once you reach the maximum caster level with greater consumptive field, cast it again. The two castings won't stack, but the second casting will be at a much higher caster level, meaning its total caster level boost will be greater. Then cast it again. And again. Then finish with an Extended, Persistent field. Then start casting whatever spells you like over the next two days.

You'll end up with a precisely doubled caster level and cap out there. However, Consumptive Field is a divine spell so it might not be useful here (Divines have many other CL boosters too; Ankh of Ascension, Divine Spell Power, Hiero and company).

dextercorvia
2010-06-24, 05:18 PM
Arcane Thesis: +2 to one spell.

The various reserve feats give a +1 to spells of the type required to fuel them.

Reserves of Strength gives +1,+2, or +3 CL, when casting a spell, but you are stunned or take damage if immune to stunning. It also has an interesting side effect.

As mentioned earlier, Spellgifted has a +1/-1 effect. Wild Mage 1 reduces your caster level by 3, but lets you add 1d6 to you CL whenever you cast a spell. Practiced Spellcaster gives you a +4 to CL (up to a max of your HD) but you get to stack it in the most beneficial order.

Also, this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level).

Bakkan
2010-06-24, 06:29 PM
Another point on the reserve feats: They are explicitly allowed to stack the CL boosts (ref. Complete Mage p. 37), despite the fact that they are typed bonuses. Stacking reserve feats like that can be somewhat inefficient, but for example, you could take Protective Ward (Complete Champion), Magic Disruption (Complete Mage) and Mystic Backlash (Complete Mage) to get a +3 bonus to your caster level for all abjuration spells.

Also, you can use the spell Healing Lorecall (Spell Compendium) to use your number of ranks in the Heal skill instead of your caster level for all Conjuration(healing) spells.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 06:51 PM
Wow, nice builds.

Can the effective caster level increase allow you to qualify for feats etc?
In the same way as Dex 11++2 gloves = can take point blank shot?

Also, if you are permanantly polymorphed into a 5 HD form, you can get +4 CL, right?

Dante

Keld Denar
2010-06-24, 07:11 PM
Bakkan, you can also add Planar Touchstone linked to the Catalogues of Enlightenment. 1 feat + 250g gets you the domain power of the Purification domain which is....+1 CL with Abjurations. That totals you at +4 for 4 feats.

lulz

dextercorvia
2010-06-24, 09:38 PM
Wow, nice builds.

Can the effective caster level increase allow you to qualify for feats etc?
In the same way as Dex 11++2 gloves = can take point blank shot?

Also, if you are permanantly polymorphed into a 5 HD form, you can get +4 CL, right?

Dante

The bonus from something like Ring of Arcane Might, or Orange Ioun Stone actually improves your CL period. These will let you pick up a feat with a Prerequisite of Caster Level X, or Arcane/Divine Caster Level X depending on your flavor. The other bonuses are either granted when you cast a spell, or are only for a particular type of spells or both. These don't actually change your overall caster level that a prereq will check.

Also, AFAIK Polymorph doesn't grant you HD. I suppose you are thinking about Practiced Spellcaster. That is best used filling holes you have strategically created, like in my Spellgifted Wild Mage example. I traded away 3 CL for a 1d6CL bonus, and 1 CL in seven schools for a +1CL bonus in the last. The +4 from Practiced Spellcaster mitigates the sacrifice. You can do a similar thing with Unseen Seer, if Divination is your thing.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 09:42 PM
kay, and one other question: If I have a spell like ability, does that count as being to cast a spell of that ability, for example, if I had the spell-like ability Summon Monster IX, but I am only 1st level, can I qualify for feats as if I can cast 9th level arcane spells?
:smallbiggrin:
Dante

dextercorvia
2010-06-24, 09:47 PM
kay, and one other question: If I have a spell like ability, does that count as being to cast a spell of that ability, for example, if I had the spell-like ability Summon Monster IX, but I am only 1st level, can I qualify for feats as if I can cast 9th level arcane spells?
:smallbiggrin:
Dante

Not a chance. An SLA counts as being able to cast a specific spell, but you actually have to have 9th level arcane spell slots for the other.

Edit: And to anticipate your follow up, the same is true for psionics, and Psi-like abilities too.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 10:15 PM
Okay. So if a feat requires me to be able to cast a certain spell and I have it as a spell like ability, that doesn't allow me to qualify? Thanks /Dante

dextercorvia
2010-06-24, 10:19 PM
Okay. So if a feat requires me to be able to cast a certain spell and I have it as a spell like ability, that doesn't allow me to qualify? Thanks /Dante

Actually that works. If the feat requires Able to cast Charm Person. Then you can satisfy that either with the Wiz1 spell, the Warlock Charm invocation, or Charm Person as an SLA.

If it says must cast 1st level spells including at least 1 enchantment spell, then you have to be able to cast a 1st level spell. The rules are in Complete Arcane, but I forget the page number. IIRC it is at the beginning of the PrC's chapter, but I could be mistaken.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 10:26 PM
Oh, cool! The example in point is my frontlining wizard (half celestial, representing a fallen angel) taking spontaneous healer so he can become the party healer.

Dante

dextercorvia
2010-06-24, 10:33 PM
That feat requires the cure spells to be on you class list. May I suggest a belt of healing instead. We have wandered pretty far off topic though. Probably ought to start a new thread if you want to continue.

Sorry for the derail.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-24, 10:42 PM
Yeah, true.

Anyways. You can boost CL by wishing, but that's a little extreme. Do you want the caster level boost to get more spells or for penetrating spell resistance or to qualify for feats/Prc or to get higher level based variables?

Perhaps you want Divine Metamagic: Hieghten spell. Allows you to raise the spell level by 1 / expended turn attempt. Divine yes, but still deserves a mention.

Dante

Keld Denar
2010-06-24, 11:51 PM
Perhaps you want Divine Metamagic: Hieghten spell. Allows you to raise the spell level by 1 / expended turn attempt. Divine yes, but still deserves a mention.

Only affects spell level, unless you have a feat in Races of Stone called Earth Spell. Then each heighten level also increases your CL. Really sick with DMM since if you had enough turn undead attempts, you could blow them all to heighten a spell up to 9th level from level 1.

sofawall
2010-06-25, 12:11 AM
Wasn't there a rule against DMM: Heighten?

herbe
2010-06-25, 12:37 AM
For an arena game I managed to create a character (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=157104) who had a caster level of 7 for Scorching Ray -- at level 1

Race: Human
Class: Fire Domain Wizard -- +1 CL for certain spells (scorching ray is one of them), Unearthed Arcana
Trait: Spellgifted(Evocation) -- +1 CL Evocation, -1 CL non-Evocation, Unearthed Arcana
Feat: Bloodline of Fire -- +2 CL [Fire] spells, Player's Guide to Faerun
Feat: Elemental Spellcasting -- +1 CL [Fire] spells, Planar Handbook
Feat: Spell Thematics -- +1 CL to one spell per spell level (choose scorching ray for level 2), Player's Guide to Faerun
Feat: Precocious Apprentice(scorching ray), Complete Arcane

So with this you get a caster level of 1+1+1+2+1+1 = 7 for scorching ray, which is enough for 2 bolts, each dealing 4d6 fire damage with a successful touch attack. The downside is that you have a caster level of 0 for all non-Evocation, non-[Fire] spells, which I believe will prevent you from casting them.


Its okay to me to get 7 casterlevel at 1st level (nice work) but you dont get higher level spell earlier.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-25, 01:09 AM
Wasn't there a rule against DMM: Heighten?

Only in competitive games. As far as I know. I personally think it's ok, due to the fact you must expend a turn attempt for every level + 1. It only comes in to be cheesy when you combine it with nightsticks etc. or other items/feats granting unlimitd TU attempts.

Dante

Bakkan
2010-06-25, 02:21 AM
Its okay to me to get 7 casterlevel at 1st level (nice work) but you dont get higher level spell earlier.

That's what the Precocious Apprentice feat is for -- it gives you a 2nd level spell slot that can only be filled with your chosen spell, and can only be taken as Wizard level 1.

Cadian 9th
2010-06-26, 04:36 AM
I've just found this build, it's not quite so insane as the above, but is quite versatile. For all it's strengths, the above build relies just on 3, maybe 4 spells per day.

Silverbrow Human.
1st level: Dragonblood Sorcerer variant with battle sorcerer variant. Taking the tougher animal companion variant too.
Feats: Draconic Heritage (Bonus) Draconic Claw (Human) Draconic Power (flaw) Draconic toughness (flaw) + 1 other feat.
Traits: Spell gifted, Stout.

Wearing a chain shirt, with Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12 (pick no-save spells, which are nearly always good stuff like rays. )

You have: 18 hp; AC 17 (a little low, but hey) and the ability to make claw attacks as swift actions when you cast a standard action spell.

You have CL 3 with some spells my advice, fire, evocation, so Kelgore's Fire bolt for 3d8 damage. You still have a good amount of utility and can serve as the secondliner of the party. It only gets better at 2nd level.

Dante

sofawall
2010-06-26, 11:58 AM
It only gets better at 2nd level.

And promptly become worse after that :smalltongue:

I mean, 12 cha? You'll need magic items just to cast 8th and 9ths!

Cadian 9th
2010-06-26, 07:22 PM
I forgot racial adjustments, its actually Cha 14. It goes up to Cha 15, so you can cast spells, and Cha 16 well in time. You could take levels in the Dragon prestige classes. That build I suggested was from 1st to about 6th level.

Is that your only complaint? I consider it OK then.

Dante