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jguy
2010-06-24, 04:22 AM
For the longest time I thought that Psions got psicyrstals in a way that Wizards got familiars. Hell, they even got personalities and bonuses the way familiars done but rereading it I saw no thing that indicated that psions got psi-crystals for free. Does everyone need to take the feat to get one or did I miss something?

lord_khaine
2010-06-24, 04:25 AM
They have to pick them though a feat.

Amphetryon
2010-06-24, 05:25 AM
The advantage psionicists have in taking it through a Feat is that there is no XP lost if it dies. A new one just pops up the next day or so - like an Animal Companion.

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-24, 06:05 AM
For the longest time I thought that Psions got psicyrstals in a way that Wizards got familiars. Hell, they even got personalities and bonuses the way familiars done but rereading it I saw no thing that indicated that psions got psi-crystals for free. Does everyone need to take the feat to get one or did I miss something?

They did in third edition. Not in the revised version.

Erudites do get them for free at first level, though.

Optimystik
2010-06-24, 08:07 AM
It costs a feat but is well worth it.

Also, as Yuki pointed out, Erudites get them for free.

And really, for wizards and sorcerers they cost a feat too - the ACFs are always better than just keeping your starting familiar, especially since Obtain Familiar allows your familiar to stack with PrCs (while your base familiar does not.)

Claudius Maximus
2010-06-24, 09:02 AM
Keep in mind that Psions get a bonus feat at first level. You could almost see it as the ability to trade the crystal for a bonus feat if you wanted.

Optimystik
2010-06-24, 09:13 AM
Keep in mind that Psions get a bonus feat at first level. You could almost see it as the ability to trade the crystal for a bonus feat if you wanted.

While this is true, Psions also have (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a) ACFs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) they can trade their bonus feat for.

In Eberron, the Seer ACF is pretty good, as you basically trade one feat for two.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 09:24 AM
Is there a "Psicrystal Handbook" or something similar? I'm trying to look up the possible usages for a psychic warrior's Pet Rock.

NEO|Phyte
2010-06-24, 09:25 AM
Is there a "Psicrystal Handbook" or something similar? I'm trying to look up the possible usages for a psychic warrior's Pet Rock.

Damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) Buffer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm). Manifest the first, sharing the benefit with your pet rock. Then use the second on the rock, and keep him in your pocket.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 09:28 AM
Yeah, that's one use :/ Nothing else?

NEO|Phyte
2010-06-24, 09:30 AM
Yeah, that's one use :/ Nothing else?

Only other thing that comes to mind is Solicit Psicrystal so you can do other stuff with Immovability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/immovability.htm) up.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 09:45 AM
:p that's got to be quite a scene... crazy guy jumps from his griff...gryph...eagle-lion-thingie and stops midair, throwing fireballs at people on the ground.

Optimystik
2010-06-24, 09:50 AM
Yeah, that's one use :/ Nothing else?

1) Share Metamorphosis with it, turn it into a kickass Construct.

2) RAW it gains feats, use Feat Leech (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/featLeech.htm) to turn it into a Feat Battery. (Works best with Ardents.)

3) The Save Game trick.

How many do you want?

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 09:58 AM
What do you mean it gains feats? O.o Isn't their gain strictly tied to the manifester level?
Or are you telling me my duskblade's familiar also gains feats?

tyckspoon
2010-06-24, 10:04 AM
What do you mean it gains feats? O.o Isn't their gain strictly tied to the manifester level?


Psicrystals get HD and are intelligent. HD grant feats to every non-mindless creature. The fact that they gain the HD in reflection of their creator's levels has no bearing on whether or not the HD give feats. Arcane familiars generally do not get feats, because they do not get real HD- they simply count as having HD when dealing with things like Sleep spells that check against the target's HD to determine effect.

kamikasei
2010-06-24, 10:04 AM
What do you mean it gains feats? O.o Isn't their gain strictly tied to the manifester level?
Or are you telling me my duskblade's familiar also gains feats?

Familiars are treated as having a certain number of HD depending on their master's level for purposes of effects that count HD. Psicrystals are stated to actually have those HD, which means they get feats along with them.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 10:04 AM
Now that is news to me o.O I'll have to check if mr Dm will allow it tho.

Vaynor
2010-06-24, 10:11 AM
Is there a "Psicrystal Handbook" or something similar? I'm trying to look up the possible usages for a psychic warrior's Pet Rock.


Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

Keep this clause in mind.

balistafreak
2010-06-24, 10:31 AM
Keep this clause in mind.

Do keep in mind that reading that clause literally causes Psicrystals to explode with 0 HD if you take the feat as something other than a Psion/Wilder. Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. :smallannoyed:

It's like a holdover from the original Familiar wording that said "levels in Wizard/Sorcerer".

unre9istered
2010-06-24, 10:31 AM
Did wizards post errata on psicrystals somewhere? The errata I have doesn't mention them and the XPH never mentions HD or hp for them except in the monster section. Where did the SRD stuff saying they gain HD come from?

NEO|Phyte
2010-06-24, 10:34 AM
Do keep in mind that reading that clause literally causes Psicrystals to explode with 0 HD if you take the feat as something other than a Psion/Wilder. Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. :smallannoyed:

It's like a holdover from the original Familiar wording that said "levels in Wizard/Sorcerer".

It's more a holdover from 3.0 when psicrystals were a class feature, not a feat. Which is also why the psionic PrCs talk about not advancing psicrystal features.

Prime32
2010-06-24, 11:05 AM
Yeah, that's one use :/ Nothing else?See some of this stuff (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7414.msg243600#msg243600).

Vaynor
2010-06-24, 11:12 AM
Do keep in mind that reading that clause literally causes Psicrystals to explode with 0 HD if you take the feat as something other than a Psion/Wilder. Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. :smallannoyed:

It's like a holdover from the original Familiar wording that said "levels in Wizard/Sorcerer".

I was mostly joking, any sane DM would allow psicrystal progression for psychic warriors.

2xMachina
2010-06-24, 12:22 PM
More funnies.

You're an Erudite, not a Psion. Thus your free Psicrystal have 0HD. Which means it doesn't exist. Bye bye class feature.

Optimystik
2010-06-24, 12:25 PM
More funnies.

You're an Erudite, not a Psion. Thus your free Psicrystal have 0HD. Which means it doesn't exist. Bye bye class feature.

Technically, an Erudite is a Psion.

Though I agree that the strict "psion/wilder levels" reading is ridiculous.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 12:48 PM
The SRD fixed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalAffinity) it . The pre-requisite is having a manifester level and its advancement is linked to your total manifester level.

Vaynor
2010-06-24, 12:57 PM
The feat says nothing about it being linked to your manifester level, just that you gain a psicrystal (which, according to the SRD, advances according to your psion/wilder levels). However, that's ridiculous. But by RAW, only psion/wilder psicrystals advance at all.

unre9istered
2010-06-24, 01:02 PM
I still find it odd that the SRD mentions a limit of psion or wilder levels when the Expanded Psionics Handbook only limits it to psionic classes. The XPH doesn't mention increasing HD either. Is it the 3.0 psicrystal in the SRD or something?

balistafreak
2010-06-24, 01:04 PM
Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities.

Not from the feat itself, but from what you get when you click "psicrystal".

Now define "abilities". Do those include HD? :smallannoyed:

Apparently not by RAW, when you click "psicrystal" again.


Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

... so yeah. RAW is stupid. I'd personally ignore that line and look at the first one, because the second one just reeks of proofreading fail.

Vaynor
2010-06-24, 01:06 PM
The XPH states on pg. 207 that the psicrystals HD is equal to his master's HD, although it's HP is always equal to half of its master's.

It's not under the psicrystal description after the psion class, it's in the monster entry.

Also, in the XPH it clearly states psion or wilder levels, no mention of psionic classes in general.

Abilities do not include HD as the matter is already determined by the monster entry (and I quote):


Its Hit Dice are equal to its master's Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master's...

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 01:10 PM
The feat says nothing about it being linked to your manifester level, just that you gain a psicrystal (which, according to the SRD, advances according to your psion/wilder levels). However, that's ridiculous. But by RAW, only psion/wilder psicrystals advance at all.

Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals)

Psicrystals are described in the psion session, but it never mentions "levels in psion/wilder". I do believe that takes precedence over the conflicting bit in the construct page itself.

Hague
2010-06-24, 05:34 PM
Yeah, it's funny how familiars work. Interestingly enough, wouldn't it be possible to just use improved familiar to get an advanced form of your regular familiar? That is to say, one with it's own hit dice and feat advancement?

Are there any good solid rules for how to determine what effective caster level you'd need to be to summon a certain strength of familiar?

crizh
2010-06-25, 03:31 AM
The Psi-crystal's Stat-block says 'As Masters HD' which is technically in conflict with the text of it's monster description.

As monster Stat-blocks technically take precedent over the text when the two disagree I've always chosen to ignore that disparity.