The Kingdom Of Baron In Avatarverse

[ArlEammon]

The Kingdom Of Baron. . .An odd culture in the world of Avatar. A land of innovation, yet of stagnation. . . A land of magic, and yet no bending. The Kingdom of Baron possesses a Royal Gaurd, Squadrons of Dark Knights, Lancers who can leap high into the air while armored and heavily armed with ease, called Dragoons, and Wizards of both the white and black variety who can destroy with their magic or heal, respectively. But their most powerful asset is their mighty airships, engineered by the great Cid Highwind.

1)Kingdom of Baron with all their assets, including Golbez and his cronies, and monster soldiers.
2)Kingdom of Baron without their assets, other than Dark Knights, Dragoons, Wizards, Soldiers and Royal Guards

Can Baron hope to invade the other powers? Can Baron defeat them? Can Baron at least remain a major power?

[Optimystik]

Baron beat down summoners, a bunch of piddly benders should be no problem at all.

[Zevox]

Depends on a multitude of factors. A big one being how exactly you translate FFIV's video game mechanics for its magic and the like into a more realistic scenario not based on number-crunching to determine hp, damage, etc. Even though I've played FFIV, I'm not a big FF fan, so I can't really speak on that.

Some observations on the Avatar-verse for this, though. First, compared to most fantasy settings, the world of Avatar is pretty low-power. Benders can achieve some impressive feats, but they don't come near to bending reality to their whim or unleashing destruction the way most fantasy setting mages can. With a couple of exceptions, however: Sozin's Comet and the Avatar. Obviously, the former is extremely situational, but the power boost it provides firebenders was enough that Ozai could seriously expect to use a fleet of ariships stuffed with firebenders to raze the planet's largest continent to the ground. That's pretty huge. If that happens to come around during any conflict, there will be trouble, and not for the benders.

And the Avatar is the big thing that would impede the FF guys. Anything that disrupts the balance of the world will get his/her attention, and something like this would definitely qualify in a huge way. We've seen the Avatar State or just fully realized Avatars performing amazing feats, from handily defeating the entire Fire Nation invasion force at the Siege of the North, to spanking Ozai like he was a fly, to Avatar Kyoshi actually earthbending entire friggin' tectonic plates to create Kyoshi Island. So a lot will depend on the Avatar - who is it, and at what point in his/her life is it? Does he or she have control of the Avatar State or not? The more powerful the Avatar currently is, the less likely the FF guys will get anywhere.

I'd also note that the Fire Nation has their own airships, improvements on the Mechanist's design, which means the FF guys won't own the air. Unless they're arriving before that point in time, in which case they may have the Air Nomads to deal with. A lot depends on when they show up, actually.

Something else to consider is the Spirit World. If burning down a forest can cause Heibei to rampage the way he did, I'd imagine something like this might get the attention of more powerful spirits, depending on how it goes down.

Zevox

[ArlEammon]

Interesting Zevox. It is interesting to note, however, that Baron, under Golbez'es control, has the Four Elemental Fiends, and his various servants, including the monsters. Some monsters have elemental resistances. This would make it difficult for some benders to pose a challenge to Baron. It's also interesting to note that the ships of Baron possess elemental bombs they can attack the enemy with.

[Zevox]

Interesting Zevox. It is interesting to note, however, that Baron, under Golbez'es control, has the Four Elemental Fiends, and his various servants, including the monsters. Some monsters have elemental resistances. This would make it difficult for some benders to pose a challenge to Baron. It's also interesting to note that the ships of Baron possess elemental bombs they can attack the enemy with.
One would imagine that the elemental fiends wouldn't be much help in a world populated by people who can control the very elements they're made of. Elemental bombs may also be of less use than you'd imagine, though probably still effective in most cases. Don't remember them though, so I can't comment specifically.

And elemental resistances is one of those things that would have to be translated from game mechanics into more realistic functions - aside from fire, benders really don't do "elemental damage." Earthbenders strike their foes with rocks and stone, effectively doing blunt physical damage, or forming the rock around their foes to encase them; waterbenders tend to wield water like a blade, a whip, a blunt object, or use their ability to manipulate its form to encase things in ice or toss sharp icicles around like arrows; and airbenders are all about the blunt force of high speed winds, and manipulating their own means of movement. So what effect, exactly, would such elemental resistances have on those kinds of tactics?

That kind of thing is why I say a lot depends on how you translate the video game mechanics of FFIV into a more realistic setting like the Avatar universe.

Zevox

[ArlEammon]

So what effect, exactly, would such elemental resistances have on those kinds of tactics?

Golbez himself can summong lightning at will, summon the Shadow Dragon, and rejuvenate from being blown up, leaving nothing but a hand behind for him to gradually grow back. And actually IMHO, not be to rude, I think the Fiends would be quite useful.

For example, the Elemental Fiends would actually be useful, more useful, actually, in such a world, ecspecially if they all appeared at once. I assume that no amount of elemental bending would do well against the fiends, other than perhaps Milon/Scarmiglione. I assume that, for example, water whipping water wouldn't really hurt Cagnazzo at all. No amount of wind is going to hurt Valvalis/Barbarricia, and Fire won't hurt Rubicant, who actually has a magical cloak that shields him from all the elements.

[Zevox]

For example, the Elemental Fiends would actually be useful, more useful, actually, in such a world, ecspecially if they all appeared at once. I assume that no amount of elemental bending would do well against the fiends, other than perhaps Milon/Scarmiglione. I assume that, for example, water whipping water wouldn't really hurt Cagnazzo at all. No amount of wind is going to hurt Valvalis/Barbarricia, and Fire won't hurt Rubicant, who actually has a magical cloak that shields him from all the elements.
...and why would you assume that bending would be useless against them, aside from the silliness of trying to hit them with the element they're made up of? Remember that it isn't magic - it's the ability to fundamentally control those elements themselves. Benders wouldn't have to attack them, they could effectively telekinetically control their very bodies. And even if they did have to attack them, you simply don't target them with their own element, at least not directly. Of course shooting fireballs at the guy made of fire or trying to water-whip the guy made of water are pointless exercises - that ought to be obvious, and any bender worth his salt wouldn't try it.

Zevox

[ArlEammon]

Of course shooting fireballs at the guy made of fire or trying to water-whip the guy made of water are pointless exercises - that ought to be obvious, and any bender worth his salt wouldn't try it.

Zevox

What, exactly, are you going to do to Rubicant, who is made of fire, and on top of that can block anything you throw at him, other than using telekinesis to do it? (Like throwing rocks at him, or controlling his body like you said.) Now, you can try to tear them apart like you just suggested, but what are you going to do when they are trying to attack you? Can you dodge a giant wave of water? (Maybe, they are benders after all) Besides, I doubt that the Fiends are going to just congregate together without an army. Baron does have Bombs (the monster, not the ship weapons) at their side, and countless other monsters, like Baigan, and Lugae, (With his Frankenstein parody monster). Although I"m not sure bringing the Tower of Zot into this is fair. (We might just give him the monsters)

Even throwing aside elemental resistances, there are still Dragoons, (game mechanics question, I'm going to assume that it's difficult to hit Dragoons with air bending, but not impossible)in the army, as well as spell casters like Black Wizards, and White Wizards, and Royal Gaurds, who can turn benders into midgets or toads, and on top of all that, there are still Dark Knights.

[Zevox]

What, exactly, are you going to do to Rubicant, who is made of fire, and on top of that can block anything you throw at him, other than using telekinesis to do it? (Like throwing rocks at him, or controlling his body like you said.)
Take direct control of him with firebending. Encase him in a stone prison with earthbending. Douse him with waves of water with waterbending. Not all that hard to figure out, really.


Now, you can try to tear them apart like you just suggested, but what are you going to do when they are trying to attack you?
Er, defend against the attack with whatever form of bending you have and counter-attack yourself? The common-sense thing to do, in other words?


Can you dodge a giant wave of water? (Maybe, they are benders after all)
Airbenders could dodge, certainly. Waterbenders would just bend the water around them so it doesn't even touch them, probably even turning some of it back at their foes. Earthbenders could throw up domes of rock or burrow underground to protect themselves. Firebenders would have the most trouble, but they may try what Azula did to Katara's wave at the end of season 2 and create a powerful burst of fire as it closes on them to evaporate most of it, or at least the portions that would otherwise strike them.


Besides, I doubt that the Fiends are going to just congregate together without an army. Baron does have Bombs (the monster, not the ship weapons) at their side, and countless other monsters, like Baigan, and Lugae, (With his Frankenstein parody monster). Although I"m not sure bringing the Tower of Zot into this is fair. (We might just give him the monsters)
Once you get into army tactics I'm not going to be able to comment as much, since again, not a huge FF fan. Plus you'd need to come up with particular scenarios for where the opposing sides would be facing off, exactly what each force consists of, layout of the battlefield, etc to really discuss that anyway, which is more in-depth than I'm interested in getting.

It does seem to me that Bomb monsters suffer from the same weakness to manipulation by firebenders, imprisonment by earthbenders, or dousing by waterbenders as the fire fiend would, though. Don't remember the other monsters you listed, sadly.


Even throwing aside elemental resistances, there are still Dragoons, (game mechanics question, I'm going to assume that it's difficult to hit Dragoons with air bending, but not impossible)
I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume that. As far as I know Dragoons' big thing is jumping really high, which would seem to leave them more vulnerable to airbending to me, not less. A good gust of wind or min-tornado to the face while they're up high ought to mess with them big time.

Zevox

[ArlEammon]

I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume that. As far as I know Dragoons' big thing is jumping really high, which would seem to leave them more vulnerable to airbending to me, not less. A good gust of wind or min-tornado to the face while they're up high ought to mess with them big time.

Zevox

Except that Valvalis could have, conceivably, killed Kain, the Dragoon and effected him with her Wind powers, but couldn't. I'm certain that the Four Fiends are more powerful with their elements than John Doe Bender.

[Zevox]

Except that Valvalis could have, conceivably, killed Kain, the Dragoon and effected him with her Wind powers, but couldn't. I'm certain that the Four Fiends are more powerful with their elements than John Doe Bender.
Perhaps, but they're also constrained by a more-or-less turn-based game's mechanics, which renders Dragoons immune to anything when they jump really high, no matter how little sense that makes. I'd tend to think myself that if you want to consider the possibilities of a conflict between these worlds you'd want to err on the side of a more realistic portrayal.

Zevox

[ArlEammon]

Perhaps, but they're also constrained by a more-or-less turn-based game's mechanics, which renders Dragoons immune to anything when they jump really high, no matter how little sense that makes. I'd tend to think myself that if you want to consider the possibilities of a conflict between these worlds you'd want to err on the side of a more realistic portrayal.

Zevox

This is true, however, when Kain fought Valvalis, his near exact words were , "Your not the only one who can fight in the air." That leads me to believe that he is difficult to effect in the air.

[Zevox]

This is true, however, when Kain fought Valvalis, his near exact words were , "Your not the only one who can fight in the air." That leads me to believe that he is difficult to effect in the air.
That has to do with the whole game mechanic I mentioned, though. Plus wasn't the point of his role there that his ability to jump so high let him strike her from above while her whirlwind was preventing anyone else's attacks from reaching her body in the middle of it, which is quite a different thing from him being uniquely resistant to wind?

Zevox

[ArlEammon]

That has to do with the whole game mechanic I mentioned, though. Plus wasn't the point of his role there that his ability to jump so high let him strike her from above while her whirlwind was preventing anyone else's attacks from reaching her body in the middle of it, which is quite a different thing from him being uniquely resistant to wind?

Zevox

Uh, I"m not sure about your last sentence, but yes, that was his point.