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Ilmryn
2010-06-24, 01:44 PM
Are there any good Totally Optimized builds beside PUN-PUN? I am looking for any builds that become extremely powerful without using pun-pun tactics.

Flickerdart
2010-06-24, 01:46 PM
Cindy? Mailman? DMM Persist Clericzilla? Save state Psion? The thing with "incredibly powerful" is that there's a lot of different kinds of power.

Greenish
2010-06-24, 01:50 PM
Cindy? Mailman? DMM Persist Clericzilla? Save state Psion? The thing with "incredibly powerful" is that there's a lot of different kinds of power.While we're at it, does someone have a link to Cindy?

Draz74
2010-06-24, 01:53 PM
TO generally stands for Theoretical Optimization, not Total Optimization. And no, there's nothing else on Pun-Pun's level (because if you invent any other build that's anywhere close to that powerful, Pun-Pun can just give himself that other build's abilities and stay that much further ahead).

But you might look up the Omniscifer, Chuck the Ruby Knight Windicator, or see what's the latest version you can track down of the Hulking Hurler moon-thrower or the King of Smack. (The King of Smack isn't really TO, more PO ... but then came the Emperor of Smack, the President of Smack, and then I lost track ...)


While we're at it, does someone have a link to Cindy?

Tippy was actually very careful never to publicly release Cindy's full stats. I believe at one point he did put a Myth Weavers sheet up for Level 18 Cindy.

She was basically just a Wizard version of the Mailman, though, with a pinch of Elven Dark Chaos Shuffle cheese: Incantatrix, Arcane Thesis, Searing Spell, and therefore Orbs of Fire that could kill anything.

Optimystik
2010-06-24, 01:58 PM
Save state Psion?

I'll cover this one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146470)

Note: a Spell-to-Power Erudite can do this solo; a Psion needs someone who can cast Status.

Greenish
2010-06-24, 02:05 PM
Tippy was actually very careful never to publicly release Cindy's full stats. I believe at one point he did put a Myth Weavers sheet up for Level 18 Cindy.

She was basically just a Wizard version of the Mailman, though, with a pinch of Elven Dark Chaos Shuffle cheese: Incantatrix, Arcane Thesis, Searing Spell, and therefore Orbs of Fire that could kill anything.I might've seen it, though I seem to recall one that used Hail of Stones as the seed spell.

2xMachina
2010-06-24, 02:11 PM
Wonder if we could just get infinite feats by getting location feats and Chaos Shuffling them away.

Aharon
2010-06-24, 02:15 PM
There's a PDF for download somewhere, titled "the very best of CO".
It includes the ten LOP tricks, like nanobots or symbiont abuse. I don't have the link anymore, though.

Edit: Here (http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/94535f31d9_0.3MB) it is.
2nd edit: Err, was.

Radar
2010-06-24, 02:47 PM
Wonder if we could just get infinite feats by getting location feats and Chaos Shuffling them away.
Yup! It just costs you money and cow to salt routine gets that problem done (or Iron Wall selling, or any other shady money scheme).

Before the nanotech, there was The Hive based on the same concept, but obviously using insect little helpers.

More mild examples include crazy gnome Shadowcraft Mages chuging out Miracles left and right and an Exemplar gathering fanatical crowds by making truly impresive jumps. You might also stumble upon a Nasty Gentelman and a Perpetual Damage Machine (or more of those even).

There are ways to gain truly infinite stats - not just arbitrary high. One can even go up to Aleph_1 with Con score (shapechange into a Shambling Mound and electrocute yourself for Aleph_1 damage) and use Pun-Puns Void Release shenanigans to copy it to all other scores, but Pun-Pun is still a level of his own - no other character has a literal "I win" ability.

Flickerdart
2010-06-24, 03:30 PM
The Omniscificer achieves infinite stats at 4th level, the earliest non-Pun Pun overgod.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-06-24, 03:36 PM
Wouldn't having infinite stats at level 4 still not save you from a natural 1 Will save vs. a Sleep spell?

Eurus
2010-06-24, 03:38 PM
Wouldn't having infinite stats at level 4 still not save you from a natural 1 Will save vs. a Sleep spell?

So that you can get CGD'd and still survive unless you get another natural 1? :smallbiggrin:

Endarire
2010-06-24, 03:50 PM
Infinite stats include the Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver, which states you can use a Concentration check instead of a Will save, and you don't auto-fail on a 1.

Flickerdart
2010-06-24, 03:54 PM
Wouldn't having infinite stats at level 4 still not save you from a natural 1 Will save vs. a Sleep spell?
Infinite Intelligence and Knowledges mean that the Omniscificer has deduced that Sleep may be cast upon him and has put events into motion that erase Sleep from the multiverse. Alternately, he has used his infinite Diplomacy to enthral the world under him.

gorfnab
2010-06-25, 01:39 AM
Cheater of Mystra (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872770/new_build:_The_Cheater_of_Mystra) is fun.

Wings of Peace
2010-06-25, 01:54 AM
Any infinite action loop and you're pretty much unbeatable. Magic has Celerity loops, Psionics has Synchronicity loops and carefully built Crusaders can loop White Raven Tactics.

Doc Roc
2010-06-25, 02:06 AM
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137447) may serve as a useful jumping off point.

Greenish
2010-06-25, 08:06 AM
Any infinite action loop and you're pretty much unbeatable.Well, not quite any loop. There was the one that only managed to provoke infinite Attacks of Opportunity…

Prime32
2010-06-25, 08:40 AM
an Exemplar gathering fanatical crowds by making truly impresive jumps.I prefer the arseplomancer, who accomplishes this with Escape Artist. And then one of his fanatics explodes.

Heliomance
2010-06-25, 09:42 AM
The Omniscificer achieves infinite stats at 4th level, the earliest non-Pun Pun overgod.

Nope, the Omniscificer gains an infinite bonus to all his skill checks for a limited time, which then drops off. It's just that he uses that time to make Knowledge (everything) checks, thus becoming omniscient.