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View Full Version : You wakeup tommorow with spellcasting abilities, which form do you take?



Corporate M
2010-06-24, 10:21 PM
I was kind of thinking about making a campaign based off this concept. Sortof like The X-Men where people suddenly emerge who have powers, but it's less about genetics and more having to do with solar alignments. (Though genetics could play a role...) I even thought about trying the concept out in different time periods. (Obviously allowing some history revisionism... Steampunk, different results, etc.)

The idea here is if you had the option, which sortof spellcasting type ruling would you prefer to be stuck with? First we'll talk about mental stats, then the actual type.


STATS:
Intelligence:
Benefit: Skillpoints and in RP, actually knowing a little about how and why you have magic. Perhaps bringing it down to a science.

Trouble: Most people don't realize that the highly intelligent are also socially awckward and for good reason. Alot of their ranting just sounds like gibberish, and they tend to get annoyed because they feel completely alienated noone understanding their gibberish. Intelligent people don't even get along with eachother as they'll just talk eachother's heads off. (You wouldn't believe the number of physics forums I've gotten kicked off for suggesting mass has a direct involvement with gravity...) I may have high int cause penalties in cha based skills. Something like -X equal to half your int modifier rounded down. (So +1 or lower=-0. +2 to +3=-1. +4 to +5=-2, etc.)


Wisdom:
Benefit: Will saves and five senses skill. It'll be nice to have that extra edge in sight, smell, hearing, etc. And be well grounded which you'll need to not become overwhelmed by the magic.

Trouble: Wisdom doesn't make you smart, it just makes you capable. Animals instinctively know when earthquakes and crap are coming, but they can't tell you, they don't even understand what an earthquake is. "Gut feeling" is not enough to win a court case or even do your taxes. How effective wisdom is depends vastly on the time era of this magical upsurge...


Charisma:
Benefit: Having a buff to those cha based skills will be a God send when you try to reason with people that you're not going to hurt them. (Even when you are) As well, I think charisma should also improve your will save. Because someone with enough confidence and ego is not going to be suspetable to mind control or fear the same way a normal person would be. Be it sociopaths are revolutionaries. If they could experience fear or the power of suggestion, they wouldn't do the things that they do.

Trouble: Charisma can grant fame. And fame is not always a good thing. Especially when you want to keep a low profile. Charisma can result in crazy obsessed followers, police at your doorstep, or even hatred from others as your strong personality intimidates instead of entices!

Physical Score: (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution)
Benefit: Though only suggested in the extraorindary bad psionics 3.0, and in fourth edition was done more tastefully but still kind of lame... Using physical stats for spells has obvious advantages. Improved health, more flexbility, more combat options, etc.

Trouble: What's the point of your magic being an extension of your high metabolism or washboard abs if you can't think your way out of a situation? More importantly, alot of spells would probably rely on mental stats anyway indirectly. (You'll need to have some idea of what's going on inorder to more accurately control your spells. I don't think a dog would have the intillect required to assess he's dealing with powerpoints) Granteed, I'd obviously have to give players some kind of metagaming leeway. But not when their mental scores are in the single digits!


MAGIC TYPES:
Vancian Magic: (Spells per day)
Benefit: Can cast spells pretty liberally. Are only confined to an arbitary number. In most situations, you'll have higher level spells and spam lower level spells otherwise.

Trouble: Reaching a point where vancian magic is abusable is unlikely. Only high level sorcerers get to really enjoy it. (I'd probably keep it at spontanous casters, but if it did require preperation, that would make it even worse needing somewhat decent memory capabilities... IE: a moderate intelligence, and decent will saves to not be lazy and keep yourself disciplined enough to meditate or read for an hour)


Mana Magic: (Powerpoints or spellpoints from unearthed arcana)
Benefit: Not limited to "per day" or any sortof time base. A spellcaster can determine for himself how many powerpoints is worth investing in the spell he is currently casting. Allowing him to make educated decisions rather then guessing and hoping for a good dice roll.

Trouble: Mathamatically, powerpoints is worse then the other forms of magic. You exhaust alot of energy to cast a powerful spell. Even with greater potential for "novas", depending on the situation, this could "spell" disastor!


Recharge Magic: (Recharge magic from unearthed arcana)
Benefit: No points, no daily limits. Just spam and cheese, all day long! In theory, it doesn't matter the setting, as you'll be making the rules with spells being used over and over and over again.

Trouble: In reality, recharge magic doesn't work this way at all. Essentially what a vancian caster could do three times per day back to back, or a powerpoint user could split down to a tolerable amount, you have to wait an hour inbetween castings to do. Even the cheapest spells may take a minute to cast again. And depending on the situation, that could be a minute too long!


Binding Magic: (Skillbased magic like the binder or truenamer class)
Benefit: Alot of diversity in that can change what spells can cast (rather then a "known spell list") and most are not limited to daily use, recharge time, or points.

Trouble: Binding is a difficult and often times sketchy proccess. In short term, it can fail based purely on badluck (failed roll), or not doing the binding ritual right. (I'm sure remembering incantations or visualizing complicated demonic sigils isn't easy) In the longterm, it can do something even worse then the other spellcasting types. Where as most just ditch you, this one can actively hurt you by leaving you possessed, insane, or extremely fatigue!


Shadow Magic: (Like shadowcaster or warlock class)
Benefit: All the delightful spam of recharge magic, without any of the downtime.

Trouble: Remember how I said wisdom doesn't help you file taxes? Well thats going to be a problem if you take shadow magic. Shadowcasters are much worse then warlocks in that if you take shadow invocation A, you must follow a spell-tree that only permits you to take shadow invocation D or I as you level later. Otherwise, you'll need to start from a lower level invocation like C and work your way up to another tree like K or Z. What the hell is B doing there all by itself?! It's either that, or the warlock version. Where you get maybe four spells your whole life. Most of which will be low level spells. Sickening Blast sounds fun at first, making someone who used to pick on you in highschool crap his pants, but after a while it gets pretty redundant and useless. Especially when you have nauseating blast which can leave him bed ridden and his best friend is a bucket to puke in.






I just want to see what people would think of such a campaign concept. What combonation would you choose? Would rolling a dice to see what combonation you get be alright with you if you knew your "team-mates" had to roll dice too and could be just as screwed as you are? (I know that would make me feel better... Hell, I'd take the dice option just so everybody else had to do cause I'm a prick!)

What time period would you prefer to be stuck in with all these spells at your disposal? More modern eras might be more accepting and not immideatly seek to kill you, but then modern eras also have the technology to put a stop to you for whatever violation they think you've done. (Charm person=the new rape?) Not to meation the government coming after you to poke and prod you yelling "FOR SCIENCE!!! INCAPCITATE THE METAHUMANS!!!" hardly sounds more attractive then the inqusition riding their hoses toward you yelling "FOR THE EMPEROR!!! KILL THE HERECTICS!!!"

Dogmantra
2010-06-24, 10:29 PM
I quite like the idea, and wouldn't mind a modern or more medieval-ish setting. As for if I got to choose, I'd probably find recharge magic the most interesting. As for the mental stats... I dunno about INT giving penalties to CHA. I wouldn't like having to roll though, for fear of getting stuck with a system I didn't like.

Cealocanth
2010-06-24, 10:45 PM
First of all, I like the idea. A sorcer based X-men type campaign sounds fun!

Second of all, I have no idea what magic type I would want to choose! They all sound different, and none of them appeals to my style of play. I'll get back to you on that.

[Edit: I think I'll go with Mana Mage. I like to play on the edge, and Mana mage sounds like it has a "how much can I get away with" vibe to it. When power points are at a loss, it all comes down to hit points and lady luck.

I could see this plop into the center of a DnD setting. Easily done. An early 1900s era sounds like it would be interesting, a lack of technological power creates a need for discovery, but this magical uprising isn't exactly what they were looking for. I could see this in mid WWII. No matter where you go, you are being hunted. You might pose a threat to America, Europe is hunting those who are different, etc. Modern day sounds too much like X-men to me. Old west doesn't really work out. I could see this in a world ruled by technology, in the near future. Tyrants rule with an iron fist in an endless war, forcing the world into poverty. Now only the magical uprising has the chance to overthrow the Tyrants.

If I were to choose one, I'd go with either the medievial "burn the witch" times, or the last one mentioned before. ]

Snake-Aes
2010-06-24, 10:55 PM
most X-men powers do not come any close to actual spellcasting. Rather, they're a couple of spell like abilities.

Mystic Muse
2010-06-24, 11:13 PM
Well, it would depend on what level I was capable of reaching personally.

care to set a level limit? It'd be easier to decide then.

Grifthin
2010-06-24, 11:28 PM
I'd probably go with either the Warlock or Psion like casting. I'd prefer having few abilities that I can use as many times as possible - I mean honestly being able to teleport large distances, fly, Charm people at will etc are all pretty awesome. Better for more spammage :P

KillianHawkeye
2010-06-24, 11:52 PM
Definitely the Warlock's at-will SLAs. That's what I'd want in real life, at least. Then I could pick all the fun non-combat ones instead of focusing on Eldritch Blast or something. Stuff like Beguiling Influence, Devil's Sight, Spiderwalk, Charm, Curse of Despair, Fell Flight, Mask of Flesh, Voidsense, Walk Unseen, and Devil's Whispers would all be great.

Milskidasith
2010-06-24, 11:53 PM
I'm not sure why you tried to force negatives on to anything; couldn't simply weighing the positives without gross generalizations be enough? Not all intelligent people are antisocial, not all charismatic people are hounded by the paparazzi (see: Comedians, some actors who never show up in tabloids yet stay likable [an example is Will Smith, though I recall he did get some scandal story a few years ago]), wise people can be capable, strong/fast/healthy people don't have to be dumb, uncharismatic, and lacking in common sense, etc.

chiasaur11
2010-06-25, 12:03 AM
Yeah.

The "troubles" seem kinda... not brilliant.

I mean, look at Richard Feynman for smarts. Sure, genius, but likable as all get out, witty, whole deal. Man could play a room.

And good with people guaranteeing fame really fits poorly with, going for fiction here (real people who never get famous are a bit harder to look up) , Moist Von Lipwig. Can play people like a fiddle, but nobody remembers his face.

Wisdom's problems have a lot of their idiocy coming from the vagueness of DnD wisdom, but geeze, saying that being able to know how a scenario works on instinct rules out any deeper insight is a bit superficial.

And physical strength's problems being "You're dumb"?

Really?

I mean, the system's other bits could be good, but the troubles just made me unable to read further.

Optimystik
2010-06-25, 12:05 AM
I just wanted to point out that Binding never actually "fails." Barring special requirements (which you can get around with a feat), the vestige is generally more eager for the pact than the Binder himself is. Failing the check just makes you it's ***** for the duration, putting you at the hilarious mercy of the personality quirks of a rather nebulous entity.

Anyhow, I would go with Mana Magic. I disagree that Mana Magic is mathematically inferior, because (a) augmentation typically only matters for blasting spells, which is a weak strategy for a caster anyway, and (b) the greater granularity of points vs. slots means that you have more mathematical strategies as a point-based mage than a Vancian one. (e.g. you can choose to mix high- and low-level spells like they do, focus on squeezing out a couple of extra heavy hitters, or focus entirely on your lesser repertoire for more staying power.)

Recharge Magic needs some tweaking to be practical, or for the players to start at mid-levels. The cooldowns are crippling at low levels - you basically get to cast 1 spell per combat, maybe two... a Truenamer can do better than that! It gets better - much better - as you approach epic, but actually makes casters more Quadratic than usual.

Reluctance
2010-06-25, 12:15 AM
If I had to wake up tomorrow with a special ability? Preparation-based, for all the reasons that prep-based casters make up most of T1. Preferably Int-based, as my Wis is in the crapper.

If I were making a system, D&D style casting would be the last thing I'd do. Psionics would be the closest to an acceptable thing, where staple powers remained worthwhile over the course of your whole career. D&D casters too often feel like a grab-bag of powers. Characters with more focused lists of abilities are easier, both for a player to wrap their heads around and for DM's to prepare for.

Milskidasith
2010-06-25, 12:15 AM
Mana magic is even better if you use the UA variant for spell points, because you get far more of your normal amount of spells anyway and you don't have to augment, though you get less bonus points and the sorcerer has less extra points.

I'd definitely take that if I could, and if I could ignore the pointless "troubles" that come with each (I.E. I wouldn't lose my intelligence, become dumb, and start posting "lol id be a wizzrd based on str because I'm SUPAR STRONG!!1!11!), I'd probably pick... well, anything but int, because D&D stats are vague. EDIT: This is under the assumption the stat you use to fuel your casting is arbitrarily boosted, not running on your actual real life stats.

Charisma: I've got a few friends and can always make them laugh, but I don't have a lot of friends overall and don't really enjoy going over just to hang out, and I don't find talking just to talk, or explaining the details of my day, to be that interesting.

Wisdom: I seem to be decent at learning things and seeing patterns, but... wisdom is so vague I don't even know if that applies.

Dexterity: This is the only one I'm pretty sure I'm bad at overall; I can't throw very well or aim that well in FPS's, although I can type extremely fast and have great reaction times (far above average, according to unreliable flash tests).

Constitution: I can run for a couple miles at a light jog, and I don't get sick, but I can't really do on and off sprinting that well (I can constantly do it, but I get winded very quickly, which may just be normal).

Strength: Decently strong legs, very weak arms and core.

I'm not saying I'm above average in everything; I'm probably below average in strength and dexterity... I'm just saying that I have no clue which stat I'd want pumped up a ton to fuel casting abilities when they are all so incredibly vague and nebulous.

Corporate M
2010-06-25, 05:52 AM
lol, I think alot of posters got the idea that I was suggesting that having a high stat in one regard made you have a low stat in another. I admit, I was kind of playing with the idea from a mechanical perspective, but I didn't mean to imply that strength based casters would nesscaraly be dumb as bricks or that int casters couldn't carry a conversation without meationing nuclear physics. (Well, I kind of did imply that in my propsal for cha penalties)

What I meant by that was probably for RP reasons and for mechanical balance, high stats should probably impose penalties on other stats. Because noone is good at everything. Though I suppose this essentially solves itself with the whole stat allocation thing be it dice roll or pointbuy. But I feel it becomes completely irrelevant by a few levels. Mostly I just want to avoid mary sues whilest they can still do some amazing things and be amazing people.


Maybe something like instead of +1 stat points every four levels, you get +3 stat points and -3 stat points that you have to put somewhere. I know this would make you progressively get worse in some regard, and that seems highly unlikely. But since we're dealing with magic anyway. It could be implied magic excaggerates you. (And I'd allow stats to go lower then 3 and still be playable. Just not below 1 obviously unless you're undead)

Morph Bark
2010-06-25, 06:02 AM
most X-men powers do not come any close to actual spellcasting. Rather, they're a couple of spell like abilities.

Which is why the Marvel universe also has homo magi.

Escheton
2010-06-25, 06:03 AM
Wisdom based binder type.
Wisdom stands closer to truth, and the lasting effects of the bindertype show that unlike the cha shadowcaster your magic/faith/awesomeness isn't fleeting.
Silent stoic badass type that people dislike the second he opens his mouth because he sounds like he doesnt know what he is talking about(int) yet speaks in absolutes(cha)

or twitchy, paranoid, hyperresponcive to all the things his high wis makes him notice/aware off but treated like a mad man because noone else has the senses or lvl to pick up on any of it and thus he must be making it up.

jseah
2010-06-25, 07:11 AM
Intelligence based casting above any of the others, no matter how many times you ask. Anti-social sounds just like how I am now, it doesn't really matter to me as long as I still get to act sane.

Binding magic because I'm not really interested in using magic for real. The consequences of magic seems so much more interesting. Something even more flexible but more long term would be even better. It could require expensive materials and weeks long work just to pull off a cantrip but if I get to peel apart reality, it would be all worth it.


What time period would you prefer to be stuck in with all these spells at your disposal? More modern eras might be more accepting and not immideatly seek to kill you, but then modern eras also have the technology to put a stop to you for whatever violation they think you've done. (Charm person=the new rape?) Not to meation the government coming after you to poke and prod you yelling "FOR SCIENCE!!! INCAPCITATE THE METAHUMANS!!!" hardly sounds more attractive then the inqusition riding their hoses toward you yelling "FOR THE EMPEROR!!! KILL THE HERECTICS!!!"
Modern, today if I can have it that way.
I cooperate nicely and just want to learn more about magic, no poking, just honest, open scientific analysis. And I sure won't need that charm person if I'm the only guy with magic.

I might want to keep a private escape route that I tell no one about just in case fanatics come wanting to kill me. Say a prepared plane shift and a few protective spells but that's all. Nothing nasty.

PersonMan
2010-06-25, 07:36 AM
lol, I think alot of posters got the idea that I was suggesting that having a high stat in one regard made you have a low stat in another. I admit, I was kind of playing with the idea from a mechanical perspective, but I didn't mean to imply that strength based casters would nesscaraly be dumb as bricks or that int casters couldn't carry a conversation without meationing nuclear physics. (Well, I kind of did imply that in my propsal for cha penalties)

What I meant by that was probably for RP reasons and for mechanical balance, high stats should probably impose penalties on other stats. Because noone is good at everything. Though I suppose this essentially solves itself with the whole stat allocation thing be it dice roll or pointbuy. But I feel it becomes completely irrelevant by a few levels. Mostly I just want to avoid mary sues whilest they can still do some amazing things and be amazing people.


Maybe something like instead of +1 stat points every four levels, you get +3 stat points and -3 stat points that you have to put somewhere. I know this would make you progressively get worse in some regard, and that seems highly unlikely. But since we're dealing with magic anyway. It could be implied magic excaggerates you. (And I'd allow stats to go lower then 3 and still be playable. Just not below 1 obviously unless you're undead)

Meh. I don't think that a system like that would really work. I mean, after enough time you'd be required to spend your +3 to balance out your -3 so you don't end up with horribly low scores and one or two superhuman ones.

And I don't think that someone being fairly smart, kind of wise, charismatic and fit is mary sue-ish. If someone has mostly average stats with one or two things above average, isn't that more realistic than if someone has, say, Str: 2, Dex: 2, Con: 2, Int: 48, Wis:10, Cha: 11? I mean, unless you divert your points to stop your stat drain eventually, or else you'd end up with:
Str: 1
Dex: 1
Con: 1
Int: >9000
Wis: 1
Cha: 1
And you'd stay the same, because to stay alive you'd need to divert your +3 into the stats you use -3 on.

deuxhero
2010-06-25, 08:07 AM
I'd go Warlock, but I think I have a negative charisma modifier.

Instead Wizard/Archivist is neat.

Tome
2010-06-25, 08:21 AM
Oh, this sounds fun. :smallamused:

I'd want to be Int based, for sure. Maybe Wis. Both of mine are pretty darn high.

For system, I'd want either Recharge or Mana based. It would depend on the number of different spells available to each and what sort of limits each had. I'd want a fairly broad selection of abilities either way. Spell Point Wizard would be a good fit, I think.

On the issue of stats: The idea that no one could have high stats all around has little basis in reality. It's mostly a game balance thing. Not all geniuses are socially awkward, out of shape or out of touch, and a good number of athletes are pretty well educated.

Radar
2010-06-25, 08:45 AM
Hmm... definately Int-based UA recharge variant wizard for power and versatility. Seriously, if I got the chance to wield magic, I would totaly try to munchkin out myself with all the cheese I can get my hands on. Motivation? FOR SCIENCE! :smallbiggrin:

NecroticPunch
2010-06-25, 10:55 AM
Hm... I'm tied between playing an Intelligence based Psion, and playing an Intelligence based Mana Point Wizard. I think I might do the Psion, because it exemplifies me better than a Wizard. But then again, Shadowcasters are the class that I want to play so much... but suck so much.

Telonius
2010-06-25, 12:03 PM
Depends on the setting. Are there others like me, or am I the only one? Am I likely to be left alone, or will the government dissect now and ask questions later? Are there supervillains that I alone could stop?

If I'm likely to not be burned at the stake, Charisma-based mana magic. If it's modern day, whatever would get me Artificer. (Most companies wouldn't notice if their SysAdmin started actually casting spells to make their computers work).

ZiggZagg
2010-06-25, 12:11 PM
Well, if you are looking for an alternate magic system, I recommend this one:
http://tinyurl.com/Dice-Pool

It think it really captures the idea of magic being a powerful but dangerous force to work with, and that meddling in it foolishly will only end in trouble.

Darkxarth
2010-06-25, 01:09 PM
Charisma-based Mana magic.

I would not particularly want to randomly determine any of that, but I suppose if everyone in the group had previously agreed to, I would as well.

I would prefer a modern setting, since I think the inclusion of the supernatural amidst the cultures, technology, and sheer number of people in the modern world opens up a wide variety of role-playing opportunities.

Vizzerdrix
2010-06-25, 01:24 PM
I'd prefer wisdom based skill system myself.

Salbazier
2010-06-25, 01:45 PM
Intelligence, because well, My charisma and wisdom is average if not negative.

Mana Magic. Vancian magic is fun now that i used to it but I still prefer point based system.

No, I'll not want rolling dice to determine that. I don't like determining any vital part of character creation with rolling dice.

time period... modern, medieval, steampunk. All is fun for me.

Knaight
2010-06-25, 02:02 PM
What me? I'm thinking the psion equivalent. It avoids spell books, and thus the inherent problems that come with organization, and all spells are highly limited. Plus, I could manage the minimum intelligence bonus for longer than the minimum charisma, and if we are looking at D&D style magic here, all the wisdom based classes (except for psionic warrior) have some sort of "servitude do higher power" thing going on.