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zenanarchist
2010-06-25, 01:01 AM
The Sleeper

Also known as the Dreamers. The Sleepers are an order dedicated to the world of dreams, believing that the answers to reality lie in the realm of our subconscious. Sleepers are regularly accompanied by a protector, as for the most part they are helpless until they activate their Dreamscape abilities. The Sleepers rely on their team mates, to a massive degree, without assistance the sleeper will die. The Sleeper, despite being helpless is incredibly resilient and their body, reinforced by dream material protections, can withstand a surprisingly large amount of punishment.


Hit Die: D12 The Sleepers form, while bound to a frame, is enhanced via mental exercises designed to stimulate muscle mass and regulate blood flow and heart beat, as well as blood pressure.

Alignment: Any

Skills

The Sleeper’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), , Knowledge (All) (Int), Sense Motive, Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at 1st Level

(4 + Int modifier) ×4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level

4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: None

Sleeper
{table=head]Level|Base Attack <br> Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+3|Almost helpless, Borrow from Dreams, Iron Mind

2nd|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+3|Subconcious Slash, Big Brother, Heightened Senses

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dream Material Boost, Mind Wall

4th|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dream Defense

5th|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+5|Foray into reality

6th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+5|Proximity Defense

7th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+6|Mental Stability

8th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+6|Ally Assist, My Dream

9th|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+7| Ally Recall
10th|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+7|Dream Strike, Subconscious Slash (Improved)

11th|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+8|Blanket Protection

12th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Variable Invisibility

13th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+9|Dream Transportation

14th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+9|Focus of both worlds

15th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+10|Nightmares, Subconcious Slash (Improved)

16th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+10|Hopes and Dreams

17th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+10|Mental Scan

18th|
+6|
+6|
+6|
+11|Pleasant Dreams

19th|
+6|
+6|
+6|
+11|Dream Personification

20th|
+6|
+6|
+6|
+12|Dream World[/table]

Class Features

Almost Helpless (Ex)

The Sleeper, bound to a frame, cannot stand, attack nor do most things requiring movement. The Sleepers frame however is bound to their mental processes and while inside of it they gain telepathy out to 100ft per level with their allies, no matter what language their allies speak. They also gain a 40ft levitation movement speed while inside the frame, powered by the pure mental force of the dreamer. Should the Sleeper ever not be attached to the frame, or become unbound, they lose these abilities. Also, a Sleeper may telekinetically utilise items that are bound to one of six item slots on his or her frame. This allows two spots for a ring, two slots for a wand, and two spots for necklaces.

Borrow from Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may, six times per day, as a full round action, pull a creature from the stuff of dreams and force it into reality. This is a full round action and lasts two rounds plus the Sleepers class levels. The CR of the creature summoned in this way must be equivalent to a maximum of ¾ of the sleepers total class levels rounded down. At 10th level he increases this to eight times per day, at 15th this increases to a total of ten. At no point may a summoned creature use their abilities to summon another creature, or an ability that increases the amount of creatures summoned beyond a total of six at 15th level. At no point may a creature use their supernatural abilities or spell like abilities, they may however use extraordinary abilities.

Iron Mind (Ex)

The Sleeper gains Iron Will as a bonus feat.

Subconscious Slash (Su)

The Sleeper has recognised his need to attack to survive. He gains a special type of attack. This attack is a direct barrage to the targets brain and the Sleeper applies his intelligence modifier to the DC of this ability. The Sleeper, twice per round designates a foe, this foe must make a Will Save (DC10+1/2 Sleeper levels+Wisdom modifier+Int Modifier) or take 2d6 damage. At tenth level this increases to 6d6 damage and then again at fifteenth to 10d6. This ability can only affect those creatures with an intelligence over 8.This is a standard action.

Big Brother (Su)

The Sleeper gains a celestial companion, sent by the order, to keep vigil over the Sleeper. This big brother is a fighter with levels equivalent to 3/4 that of the Sleeper (Rounded up). He gains the Base attack bonus of a fighter of that level and the equivalent will, reflex and saving throws and finally hit point progression. However, he only gains two bonus feats to utilise. This ally, when destroyed, is renewed 24 hours later.

Heightened Senses (Ex)

The Sleepers mental senses increase exponentially, he gains touchsight out to sixty feet. He also loses the -10 to listen checks usually attributed to sleeping characters.

Dream Material Boost (Su)

As a full round action the Sleeper may utilise dream material to lift their binding and move them 80’ on top of their base movement wherein afterwards the frame sets down. No other action can be taken when using this movement including free actions. This method of travel allows the Sleeper one foot per level above the ground. There must be solid ground underfoot to travel in this way. He may use this a number of times per day equal to his class levels.

Mind Wall (Ex)

The Sleeper, due to greatly enhanced mental prowess, gains +5 on all saves attributed to mind affecting abilities or spells.

Dream Defense (Su)

The Sleeper forces the creatures in his dreams to time their forays into reality precisely with the blows and spells of his enemies. The Sleeper gains DR 2/- which increases by 1 every 2 Sleeper levels for a maximum of DR 10/- at level 20. He also gains Spell Resistance 10 + Sleeper Class levels.

Foray into reality (Su)

The Sleeper may, as a standard action, jaunt into reality a number of times per day equal to 4 times their class levels. This enables them to use their skills, communicate verbally and interact with reality. While the Sleeper is still asleep, he is also functioning at a base level in the real world, this entitles him to use all of his Sleeper abilities. This ability lasts a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier + 4, he may choose to end this state prematurely.

Proximity Defence (Su)
Whenever an enemy travels within a 15ft radius of a Sleeper, the characters Dream defences activate, firing off a pin point beam of white mental energy. This does 1d6 damage (Reflex save (DC10+1/2 Character level + Wisdom modifier) for half) per every second level of the Sleeper. This does not cost an action and is activated no matter how many creatures enter this radius. If a creature leaves the radius and enters again in the same round, the defences are fired twice. Dream Defence will not activate upon the Sleeper moving into the range of another creature.

Mental Stability (Ex)

Due to being withdrawn in his own world, the Sleeper now gains complete immunity to mind affecting spells and abilities.

Ally Assist (Su)

The Sleeper recognises the intrinsic need for their allies and enables them heightened abilities to further the Sleepers cause. He lends the allies some of his dream stuff to create a powerful boost in their functionality. They gain a pool of points equal to double their class level. This pool may be distributed in any of the following ways:

To increase the DC of a save
To add to their next attack
To increase their allies AC against the next attack
To add to a skill check
To add in damage to their next attack or spell
No more than a total of 5 points may be spent in this way on a single round. This is an immediate action. These points refresh every twelve hours. Allies must be within 20ft per level of the sleeper to gain this bonus.

My dream (Su)

The Sleeper ensures that his allies only ever enter purposeful slumbers and that their minds are free from corruption. The Sleeper grants immunity to mind affecting spells whenever his allies are within 15ft of his person.

Ally Recall (Su)

The Sleeper may, twice per day, recall any ally within 50ft per Sleeper level to his immediate person. This places the ally in the next adjacent square. The transport must be mutually agreeable. That is, the Sleeper attempts a recall, the ally he attempts to recall becomes aware of and may choose to comply with or ignore

Dream Strike (Su)

The Sleeper strikes out from his dreams, throwing dream material with such force and fury that it causes tremendous damage. Four times per day, the Sleeper may make a strike at all hostile creatures within 10ft. The creatures must make a reflex save (DC10+Sleeper Level+Wisdom Modifier) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds and take 1d10 point of damage per sleeper level. This is a standard action.

Blanket Enforcement(Ex)

The Sleeper produces a blue field of protective and energising mental force that surrounds his form in a bubble effect, created from the stuff of dreams and utilised to shield and boost his companions. All allies standing within 10ft of the Sleeper gain +4 bonus to AC and +2 to hit and +2 to damage. If an ally leaves the radius, the dream link is broken and they cannot gain that bonus again for two hours. The Sleeper may choose to move to his allies to provide this bonus, move again and provide the bonus to other allies further away. The Sleeper permanently gains this bonus to AC but not the increase to attack and damage.

Variable Invisibility (Ex)

The sleeper blinks in and out of visibility randomly, utilising the dream world to harbour his consciousness. The Sleeper is in one of two states. He may choose to remain visible, or for 1d6 rounds become invisible as per the spell Greater Invisibility. Once he enters variable invisibility, he may not utilise that ability again for 1d20 rounds. While utilising this ability all allies are aware of the Sleepers presence and location.

Dream Transportation (Ex)

The sleeper has a powerful link to sleep and dreams, and instantly knows where any sleeping creature in the radius of the ability is and how deep in sleep they are. Six times per day he may transport his body to any sleeping or dreaming creature within 20 miles per every Sleeper Level. When he transports in that fashion he comes under effects of the spell Gaseous Form. If he is destroyed while in this form his body returns to his frame and takes 4d10 damage. This lasts for as many rounds as the Sleeper has class levels.

Focus of Both Worlds (Ex)

The Sleeper may now never be coup de grace’d. They are not considered prone or flat footed for any purposes other than aesthetically. They have complete awareness of the dream world and the real world.

Nightmares (Su)

The sleeper may, once per day, enter the dreams of any creature within 15 miles per every Sleeper level. When the Sleeper enters this dream, both he and the recipient become Fighters of equal level to their current class levels. Both have no feats, no magic items and the following attributes.

Strength: 18, Constitution: 18 Dexterity: 17, Wisdom: 13, Intelligence: 11 Charisma: 18

Both have one long sword and one long bow with an unlimited amount of arrows.

The Sleeper, however, due to initiating the dream, may take one creature into the dream. This creature is equal to a maximum of 1/4 of the Sleepers level (So CR 5 at level 20). The ability lasts for five rounds, the person with the most damage incurred is considered the loser. The victor arises from the sleep with no damage. However the loser incurs -4 penalties on his attack, damage and saves upon waking. Will save (DC10+Sleeper Class level+Wisdom Modifier) for half.

Hopes and Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may use Wish as a Spell like ability once per week. This wish may only fulfil a combat role, it may never be used to increase the character or his ally’s wealth or power, and it may only be used to damage, cure, or cause pain. This takes two full round actions and needs material components equal to 10,000gp and an experience cost of 1500.

Mental Scan (Ex)

The Sleeper finds whatever remnants of a mind the undead used to have, and whatever function of consciousness, even if automatic a construct has and may direct their mental abilities to attack that minor spark. The Sleeper may now attack undead and constructs.

Pleasant Dreams (Su)

As a full round action, twice per day, the sleeper removes his friends and allies from the real world, sending them for two rounds into a deep slumber, untouchable via the real world.

During this slumber all participants undergo the effects of a Mass Heal spell. Secondly, when they retain consciousness the Sleeper may designate one spot anywhere within 15ft of their previous location where he would like to place them.

This is a full round action and removes the Sleeper from the field as well. All hostile spell effects and abilities and status effects still elapse outside of real time. However, all positive spells and effects as well as abilities effectively pause while in the dream state. Enemies of the Sleeper may not take actions or move despite the negative status effects still elapsing.

Upon awakening, the participants in the Pleasant Dream are all granted +2 to hit, +2 damage and +2 to all their saves for 1d4 rounds each. Allies must be within 30ft of the Sleeper to be subsumed into the dream. All casters regain spells slots 0-3 due to a partial rest and do not need to study for one round upon waking to know them.

Dream Personification (Su)

The Sleeper presents his dream self into reality through sheer force of will twice per day. The Sleepers radiant ethereal body floats 5 feet above the ground, has a move speed of 80ft and any attacks (and targeted spells, but not area spells) suffer a 50% miss chance.

The Sleeper gains 3 attacks per round while in this form, they are ranged rays, dealing 10D6 (Reflex Save for half (DC10+1/2 Character level+Wisdom Modifier) and may move and then attack as many times as his movement allows. He may move 10 ft and attack 3 times, or move 80 ft in a single round and attack once with all three attacks. This form has half the hit points of the Sleeper and if destroyed immediately incurs this much damage to the Sleeper bound to the frame.

The Sleeper may choose to self destruct this form. Doing so requires a full round action and incurs 10d10 damage to all within a 50ft radius from the point of the avatar. This action immediately brings the Sleeper down to ¼ of their total hit points.

The Sleeper may pass through objects, walls or barriers no more than 1 foot thick as part of their move action, and has True Seeing out to 40ft as per the spell.

He may also utilise and manipulate objects, communicate verbally, use skills, and interact with an environment.

Finally, he radiates a 15ft aura that grants his allies +3 to hit and damage and +2 to their saves.

Activating this ability is a standard action and it lasts for 1d4 rounds X the Sleepers Wisdom modifier.

Dream World (Su)

As a full round action the Sleeper draws all individuals within 80ft into his dream world. Each individual not willing to be subsumed gets a Will save (DC10+1/2 Sleeper level+Wisdom modifier). Upon being drawn into this world a number of effects take place.

All weapons disappear except for those which the Dreamer designates, this being his dream he defines what is allowed.

All hostile enemies undergo Will saves (DC10+Sleepers level) every four rounds or come under the effects of Fear (as per the spell)

All hostile enemies are under a constant barrage of mental energy dealing one 8d4 attacks per round.

The Dreamer may cast the spell Greater Shadow Conjuration as a wizard of equivalent level as a standard action once per round.

The Dreamers abilities double in damage and length while in the dream world and all DC’s increase by five.

This ability lasts for 1d4 rounds+ the Sleepers Wisdom modifier.

sofawall
2010-06-25, 01:49 AM
Helpless: Why is he easier to hit than a normal sleeping or paralyzed person? How does this increase his wisdom? Do you mean Will Save? How does he talk, despite knowing all languages? Do you mean telepathy, not telekinesis? If not, is it as spell? If yes, what is the caster level? If not, what is the effective str score? How does it work? how is telekinesis an EX ability?

Borrow From Dreams: 3/4 round up or down? Or do you want me to be pulling kobolds at first level? Can I grab any creature? Does it work like Summon Monster, or is it Calling? If it works as SM, they already cannot call more friends. Stopping them from "Bending reality" is a bit broad, needs to be defined a bit better.

Subconscious Slash: Is it Mind-Affecting? why do you say he can add int to DC, but not say it when saying how to calculate DC? Is it supposed to be Wis+Int, Wis, or Int? Most abilities of this form use 10 as a base, not 15. This keeps them in line with spell and monster ability DCs.

Dream Material: By "No other action" do you include free actions, like talking? Swift Actions?

Dream Defense: Level*5 in SR? Wtf? That is ridiculous. This makes him immune to any level-appropriate spell that allows SR at level 6. The typical Patterns is Level+10, giving a caster with a caster level of your level a 50% chance to succeed. Level+15 is the highest typically seen, and that is considered extremely high by the 3.5 designers, and decently high by Char-Op. 20+level is considered obscenely high by 3.5 material, and even char op gets annoyed at having to penetrate that, as even with CL boosters, you'll manage a 50% puncture chance most of the time.

Heightened Senses: Life Sense just make living things glow. You still need a way to see the glow. Why not just touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm)?

Proximity Defense: No comment.

Mental Stability: No comment.

Ally Assist: Do you mean you can spend 10 at once, 10 per encounter, 10 ever? What? Why not make the limit scale with level? And while you're at it, make the limit much, much lower. Especially for save DCs. Also, the pool does not seem to ever refresh, so once they usethe points, they are gone forever.

Regain Consciousness: Everything you've listed here is something they should already be able to do. Why can someone who lives entirely within his own mind not make an Int check? Why is he unable to know obscure things about any subject? Why is someone who lives in their own mind incapable of doing anything with that mind? This is, so far, the ability I have the most problem with from a fluff perspective. It makes so sense to me.

Dream Strike: Duration on Blindness? Also, why the sudden lack of a stat for the DC?

Blanket Protection: The word "untyped" when describing something is entirely unneeded. In fact, by using it, you gave the bonus a type. It's now the "untyped" bonus type. Also, why does a protective bubble give a bonus to attacking? Why does an enemy seeing me leave break the connection, but Joe Bob the peasant does nothing?

Variable Invisibility: So if he is invisible, and wants to become visible, he has to wait up to 24 seconds before being visible again? No voluntary control? Also, why do enemies become shaken? I mean, blinking effects are reasonably common in D&D. Also, the save has gone down to a base of 5, which is odd, and you suddenly have a caster level? When did that happen? Why not the usual 10+1/2 level+stat?

Dream Transportation: So you can teleport, but only to dreaming people? Do you automatically know where dreaming people are? Do you pick a destination and pop up next to the closest sleeping person? The movement thing, may want to say something more like "The sleeper may also now his Dream Material ability as a move action, but he may only use it as a move action 5/day. When using it in such a way, he may also take other actions."

Ally Recall: No comment.

Nightmares: These fighters are apparently dead, as they have no con score. Your math is wrong, did you mean CR 15 not 5, or 1/4 not 3/4? Really, this ability has a few holes in it.

Hopes and Dreams: Oh dear lord. You like making the DM's job much, much harder than is has to be, and already is. Define your abilities better! "I wish for 25,000gp to fall on my opponent, crushing him. What, it's a combat use!"

My Dream: Why not just give immunity to those things when they're close to you?

Pleasant Dreams: No comment.

Dream Personification: Nothing in D&D has above a 50% miss chance. Nothing. also, as written, the Sleeper has a chance to miss opponents, not the other way around. The second sentence in the second paragraph makes little to no sense. The 10d10, assuming the avatar is close enough. Does it hit him after the reduction to 1/4, or before? What if he is below 1/4 already?

Dream World: How often can you activate? Why do weapons disappear? Why not the traditional 10+1/2 level+stat DC? The Rays will never hit, due to no reason to having a base to-hit of -5, and them not not being touch attacks. Cast Greater Shadow Conjuration as what casting class? Many different casters can cast that spell. Lastly, this seems like a bit too much of an "I win this fight, lol" ability.

zenanarchist
2010-06-25, 01:52 AM
Helpless: Why is he easier to hit than a normal sleeping or paralyzed person? How does this increase his wisdom? Do you mean Will Save? How does he talk, despite knowing all languages? Do you mean telepathy, not telekinesis? If not, is it as spell? If yes, what is the caster level? If not, what is the effective str score? how does it work?

WOOPS! Fixed.

How was the rest?

Also, I was thinking that as he is an immobile target, the enemy has plenty of chance to see his location, to plan their attack and to attack. Should I write this in the fluff?

sofawall
2010-06-25, 02:47 AM
WOOPS! Fixed.

How was the rest?

Also, I was thinking that as he is an immobile target, the enemy has plenty of chance to see his location, to plan their attack and to attack. Should I write this in the fluff?

Done now. Also, did you note what I said? The Sleeper is easier to hit than someone who is asleep and paralyzed. How can you possibly be easier to hit than that?

Also, I have an honest question. Why are you making homebrews for a game you don't play?

zenanarchist
2010-06-25, 03:33 AM
Also, I was thinking that as he is an immobile target, the enemy has plenty of chance to see his location, to plan their attack and to attack. Should I write this in the fluff?

^^^ Answered.

It's more of a fluff thing than a mechanical thing!

And because I love the game, I love the design, I love the mechanics. I like seeing people critique it, then I like going back and changing things to make it better.

I'd play online, given the chance. But I don't know how many mature gaming groups would accept "noobs" if that's what you call them.

To be honest, I just love the game :-)

Doc Roc
2010-06-25, 03:41 AM
Re: Playing With The Bigguns
We would welcome you.

One really needs to play things to note what slows down game-play. So my big issue with the sleeper is that it does have mechanical issues, but more that those mechanical issues are going to make it quite brutal to interact with the normal arc of a campaign from a roleplaying standpoint. I'm interested in seeing if you can keep the concept pure and still fix this elegantly. Subscribed.

sofawall
2010-06-25, 03:43 AM
Also, I was thinking that as he is an immobile target, the enemy has plenty of chance to see his location, to plan their attack and to attack. Should I write this in the fluff?

^^^ Answered.

It's more of a fluff thing than a mechanical thing!

Ok. How, exactly, is the sleeper less mobile than someone completely and totally motionless?

If it's a fluff thing, make it fluff thing. The only fluff that could back up making it even easier to hit you than something COMPLETELY MOTIONLESS would be if you somehow actively attracted attacks towards yourself, but I see no reason how dreaming really well would do that.

To put it into perspective, you are easier to hit with a sword than is a typical Castle.


I'd play online, given the chance. But I don't know how many mature gaming groups would accept "noobs" if that's what you call them.


Almost all of them. D&D players tend to be pretty cool that way.

Lix Lorn
2010-06-25, 03:53 AM
It's very cool from a flavour viewpoint, I know that much.

zenanarchist
2010-06-25, 05:40 AM
Tee hee hee.

Typos typos. Sofa, I'll start with you!

I'm trying to find a way to punish the Sleeper for sitting still and also punish his team mates for not looking after him. Any suggestions apart from improved "Hit the still guy".

SR was meant to be plus not times, must of had multiplications in my head! Woopsie daysie!

Touchsight, love it. Didn't even see it while I was researching the SRD. Very nice. It'll be added instead.

Ally assist, definitely should of been more specific. Nice, I'll get this edited to be more legible.

Regain conciousness, hm....you're right. Maybe I should make him permanently aware of both worlds. Wondering if I should penalise him for this? Maybe -5 to spot and listen?

Dream Strike- Woops again! I'll fix that one up!

Variable Invisibility- Sweet lord man you're making me look bad. :smallwink:

Blanket of protection- Wording on that is rather pathetic. (Mine not yours) I'll definitely make this more legible. P.S So far you're doing awesome at picking up on these [thanks!]

I like the wording you used on Dream Transportation. Shall be done!

Nightmares *grins* missed the con. Will add. Yeah I meant 3/4. This shall be added and changed.

Hopes and dreams-bahaha indeed but it used wealth to accomplish it and I did say no wealth! How about "This spell may only be used to cure, cause or inflict damage.

My Dream *nods* Fair call, fair call.

Dream world and dream personification- Got it. Shall tone it down.

THANKS! Like a tonne. I'll have these suggestions and re-wordings implemented by Sunday night Aus time.

Doc Roc. Might take you up on that, utilising my Void Dragon Knight. But I'm a useless min maxer and couldn't optimise to save my life.

Also, yeah it would be difficult. Definitely. But I think that'll be the kick butt part of it. The roleplaying team play aspect of it will be SO difficult. But hopefully fun!

Sofa, I agree, they are pretty cool. Just didn't expect they'd accept it that easy. As I said, useless optimiser. lol.

Lix, stoked that you like the flavour. Check back after I run through Sofa's commentaries and re-word some abilities.

Looking forward to more suggestions!!

Morph Bark
2010-06-25, 05:46 AM
A question: you say that it is a role-playing class, how is it role-playing to have "no weapon specialities (proficiendies), no armour proficiencies, no BAB and no reflex save"? Just curious.

Also, under Hit Die you say "1D12". Considering the other, er, "oddities" for lack of a better word, does this mean it always has only 1d12 for Hit Dice, even at level 20, or is it as normal and a member of the class gains 1d12 for Hit Dice at every level-up?

Continuing on, under Helpless you say they cannot utilise items. If so, why is UMD a class skill? Minor nitpick: it's "coup de grace" unless you're talking about liver (the term is French and "gras" is French for "liver", as in foie gras, which apparently a Sleeper should know, since he knows all languages :smalltongue: ).

Rather than giving them an odd Will save, perhaps lower it by 1 for all levels to make it normal and give them a bonus to mind-affecting effects and slowly-building immunity to sound-based ones? They'd already be immune to illusions unless they affect a target, I would think.


The Sleeper, studying and living endlessly in a mental plane, knows all languages and has charted the untapped areas of his mind, gaining telapathy out to 100ft.

"A mental plane", does this mean a demiplane of their own, sort of, or do their minds reside in the Astral, or even the Ethereal?


Borrow from Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may, three per day, as a full round action, pull a creature from the stuff of dreams and force it into reality. This is a full round action and lasts two rounds plus the Sleepers class levels. The CR of the creature summoned in this way must be equivalent to a maximum of ¾ of the sleepers total class levels. At 10th level he increases this to four times per day, at 15th this increases to a total of six. At no point may a summoned creature use their abilities to summon another creature, or an ability that increases the amount of creatures summoned beyond a total of six at 15th level. At no point may a creature use their abilities to bend reality in any way. (Cast spells, use abilities that alter time, create new things). The creature may attack, defend and move.

May the creature use spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities? Or even extraordinary abilities? (The latter could admittably fall under "attack, defend and move" depending on the ability, but I'd like to make sure since you don't specifically specify.)


Subconcious Slash (Su)

The Sleeper has recognised his need to attack to survive. He gains a special type of attack. This attack is a direct barrage to the targets brain and the Sleeper applies his intelligence modifier to the DC of this ability. The Sleeper, twice per round designates a foe, this foe must make a Will Save (DC15+1/2 Sleeper levels+Wisdom modifier) or take 2d6 damage. At tenth level this increases to 3d6 damage. This ability can only affect those creatures with an intelligence over 8.This is a standard action.

Wait... what? So... does he apply his Wisdom or his Intelligence modifier now? Or both?


Dream Material (Su)

As a full round action the Sleeper may utilise dream material to lift their binding and move them 40’ wherein afterwards the frame sets down. No other action can be taken when using this movement. This method of travel allows the Sleeper one foot per level above the ground. There must be solid ground underfoot to travel in this way.

Is this an at-will ability, or usable a certain amount of times per day, like "usable 1/day per level of Sleeper"?


Dream Defense (Su)

The Sleeper forces the creatures in his dreams to time their forays into reality precisely with the blows and spells of his enemies. The Sleeper gains DR 2/- every two levels to a total of DR 10/- at 20th. He also gains Spell Resistance 5 X Sleeper Class levels.

Holy crap. Spell resistance FIVE TIMES HIS CLASS LEVELS? So when this is gained, POOF, he has SR 20! At level 20? ONE HUNDREEEEEEDDD!

Honestly, I'd lower the SR. The DR is... well, DR 10/- at level 20 is fine, but "The Sleeper gains DR 2/- every two levels" = DR 20/- at level 20. Change it to make it say "The Sleeper gains DR 2/- which increases by 1 every 2 Sleeper levels for a maximum of DR 10/- at level 20".


Heightened Senses (Ex)

The Sleepers senses increase exponentially, utilising the powerful abilities of his mind. He gains Scent out to 60ft, Life sense out to 60ft, Tremor sense out to 30ft.

How can he use his senses while asleep? For a roleplaying class, this seems rather anti-roleplaying. Life sense... never heard of it, but the name suggests that they could use it while asleep. Tremorsense and Scent, not so much. Wouldn't a sleeping creature with Tremorsense wake up really easily if someone was walking around nearby? Normally that is. Also, don't forget that sleeping characters take a -10 penalty to Listen checks. And they tend to wake up upon a successful roll. Even if they don't want to. Might want to put in a clause against that.


Proximity Defense (Su)

Whenever an enemy travels within a 15ft radius of a Sleeper, the characters Dream defences activate, firing off a pin point beam of white raw energy. This does 1d6 damage (Reflex save (DC10+1/2 Character level + Wisdom modifier) for half) per every second level of the Sleeper. This does not cost an action and is activated no matter how many creatures enter this radius. If a creature leaves the radius and enters again in the same round, the defenses are fired twice.

This is a nifty ability. How about making it an immediate action though? Or at least say it is a free action. Or have it be the Sleeper's version of an Attack of Opportunity. I like this one though.


Mental Stability (Ex)

Due to being withdrawn in his own world, the Sleeper gains complete immunity to mind affecting spells and abilities.

Aha, well guess an earlier suggestion could still be used, or not. Good you kept this in mind though.


Ally Assist (Su)

The Sleeper recognises the intrinsic need for their allies and enables them heightened abilities to further the Sleepers cause. They gain a pool of points equal to double their class level. This pool may be distributed in any of the following ways:

To increase the DC of a save
To add to their next attack
To add to the next strike versus AC
To add to a skill check
To add in damage to their next attack or spell
No more than a total of 10 points may be spent in this way. This is an immediate action.

It might be nice to include a range on this perhaps, as in the distance the allies are away from the Sleeper's body. And "To add to the next strike versus AC", this means "increase their ally's AC against an enemy's attack", right? The wording on this could be changed since I almost thought this was the same as "To add to their next attack [roll]".


Regain Conciousness (Ex)

The Sleeper, for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier may regain consciousness to perform social feats such as knowledge checks, charisma checks and mental attribute checks. During this time the Sleeper loses his immunity to Mind Affecting spells. This is a standard action.

Nice. Very fitting. Too bad it happens so late though, especially since it implies they can't make Int/Wis/Cha checks while asleep, nor Cha-based skill checks or Knowledge checks, despite some being class skills. Perhaps have this be earlier? It also doesn't say how often it is useable. Perhaps once for every 2 class levels per day?


Dream Strike (Su)

The Sleeper strikes out from his dreams, throwing dream material with such force and fury that it causes tremendous damage. Twice per day, the Sleeper may make a strike at all hostile creatures within 10ft. The creatures must make a reflex save (DC10+Sleeper Level) or be blinded and take 1d8 point of damage per sleeper level. This is a standard action.

How long does the blindness last? Permanently?


Blanket Protection (Ex)

The Sleeper produces a radiant protective, a blue field of protective energy that surrounds his form in a bubble effect, created from the stuff of dreams and utilised to shield his companions. All allies standing within 10ft of the Sleeper gain +4 untyped bonus to AC and +2 to hit and +2 to damage. If an opponent has line of sight to an ally leaving this blanket of protection, that ally cannot gain the bonuses again for a full 24 hours, the dream link is considered broken.

While not stated, presumably the Sleeper would gain the bonus too. And if an ally leaves this field without any opponents seeing it, they can regain it, right? What if someone sees it who isn't an opponent but becomes one later that day (perhaps even 2 rounds later)?


Variable Invisibility (Ex)

The sleeper blinks in and out of visibility randomly, utilising the dream world to harbour his consciousness. The Sleeper is permanently in one of two states. Every 1d4 rounds he shifts between visibility and invisibility again. This feature is permanently in effect. Those hostile to the caster with line of sight, must succeed on a Will Save (DC5+Caster level) or be shaken, as per the ability listed in the Phb.

Sounds like an odd ability. Similar to blur in fluff, but different in execution.


Dream Transportation (Ex)

The sleeper has a powerful link to sleep and dreams, and may four times per day; transport his body to any sleeping or dreaming creature within 20 miles per every Sleeper Level. He now also may move his bound form as a move action 5/day.

On the second part of this ability: how does this relate to Dream Material? Those two together just seems... weird to me. Especially if Dream Material is at-will. Perhaps you should link these two abilities together so that one is explicitly an improvement of the other?


Ally Recall (Su)

The Sleeper may, twice per day, recall any ally within 50ft per Sleeper level to his immediate person. This places the ally in the next adjacent square. The transport must be mutually agreeable. That is, the Sleeper attempts a recall, which triggers a response in the recipient. They may choose to follow the response or deny it. This is an immediate action.

Word "which triggers a response in the recipient. They may choose to follow the response or deny it." instead as "which the ally he attempts to recall becomes aware of and may choose to comply with or ignore".

The "which triggers a response in the recipient" just felt awkwardly worded to me.


Nightmares (Su)

The sleeper may, once per week, enter the dreams of any creature within 15 miles per every Sleeper level. When the Sleeper enters this dream, both he and the recipient become Fighters of equal level to their current class levels. Both have no feats, no magic items and the following attributes.

Strength: 18, Dexterity: 17, Wisdom: 13, Intelligence: 11 Charisma: 18

Both have one long sword and one long bow with an unlimited amount of arrows.

The Sleeper, however, due to initiating the dream, may take one creature into the dream. This creature is equal to a maximum of ¾ of the Sleepers level (So CR 5 at level 20). The victor arises from the sleep with no damage. However the loser takes half the total amount of damage incurred in the dream upon waking and receives -5 to attack, -5 to damage and -5 to all saves for 24 hours. It takes four hours of concentration to activate a Nightmare.

Sounds like a rather lethal ability if used on characters with classes with a d4 for a hit die... No save for any part of this ability?


Hopes and Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may use Wish as a Spell like ability once per day. This wish may only fulfil a combat role, never wealth or power. This is a standard action.

Woah woah woah. Even as just for a combat role this is rather powerful, especially since they get it a level before wizards do. Even moreso since they didn't have limited wish as an SLA previously so there is no build-up.


My dream (Su)

The Sleeper ensures that his allies only ever enter purposeful slumbers and that their minds are free from corruption. Twice per day the Sleeper may instantly dismiss any sleep effect or mind affecting effect within 15ft radius of his person as an immediate action.

Fair, though it comes late. Really really late.


Pleasant Dreams (Su)

As a full round action, the sleeper removes his friends and allies from the real world, sending them for two rounds into a deep slumber, untouchable via the real world. During this slumber all participants undergo the effects of a Mass Heal spell. Secondly, when they retain consciousness the Sleeper may designate one spot anywhere within 15ft of their previous location where he would like to place them. This is a full round action and removes the Sleeper from the field as well. All hostile spell effects and abilities and status effects still elapse outside of real time. However, all positive spells and effects as well as abilities effectively pause while in the dream state. Upon awakening, the participants in the Pleasant Dream are all granted +2 to hit, +2 damage and +2 to all their saves for 1d4 rounds each.

Must the allies be within 15 ft as well to be whisked away, or can they be an infinite distance away? Must the 1d4 rounds be determined for each character seperately or for the whole group together? How long does the sleep last in "dream world" time? If it is 8 hours or more, do casters and the like refresh their memories and regain spells cast that day? (They couldn't change their spells prepared however, since that'd require 1 hour of preparation. This'd give an advantage to spontaneous casters and psionic classes. Handy against Tier 1, I suppose.)


Dream Personification (Su)

The Sleeper presents his dream self into reality through sheer force of will. The Sleepers radiant ethereal body floats 5 feet above the ground, has a move speed of 80ft and any attacks (and targeted spells, but not area spells) suffer a 75% miss chance.

The Sleeper gains 3 attacks per round while in this form, they are ranged rays, dealing 6D6 (Reflex Save for half (DC10+1/2 Character level+Wisdom Modifier) and may move and then attack as many times as his movement allows. He may move 10 ft and attack 3 times, or move 80 ft in a single round and attack once with all three attacks. This form has half the hit points of the Sleeper and if destroyed immediately incurs this much damage to the Sleeper bound to the frame.

The Sleeper may choose to self destruct this form. Doing so requires a full round action and incurs 10d10 damage to all within a 50ft radius. This action immediately brings the Sleeper down to ¼ of their total hit points.
The Sleeper may pass through objects, walls or barriers no more than 1 foot thick as part of their move action, and has True Seeing out to 40ft as per the spell.

Activating this ability is a standard action and it lasts for 1d4 rounds X the Sleepers Wisdom modifier.

6d6 damage at this point is negligible. Also, does he count as incorporeal or what? If so, nonmagical weapons would also be ineffective and even area spells would have a 50% chance of not affecting him (this does not affect attacks from "positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons" [SRD]).

If the Sleeper had already taken damage equal to 3/4 of their hp, their self-destructing causes them no damage?


Dream World (Su)

As a full round action the Sleeper draws all individuals within 80ft into his dream world. Each individual not willing to be subsumed gets a Will save (DC10+1/2 Sleeper level+Wisdom modifier). Upon being drawn into this world a number of effects take place.

All weapons disappear except for those which the Dreamer designates.
All hostile enemies undergo Will saves (DC5+Sleepers level) every two rounds or come under the effects of Fear (as per the spell)
All hostile enemies are under a constant barrage of dreams dealing two 4d4 attacks per round.
The Dreamer may cast the spell Greater Shadow Conjuration as a free action once per round as a spell caster of equivalent level.
The Dreamers abilities double in damage and length while in the dream world and all DC’s increase by five.
This ability lasts for 1d8 rounds+ the Sleepers Wisdom modifier.

I'd make it Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Sleeper level + Wisdom modifier), considering most DCs of this class are Wis-based. Or 15 + blah + blah, considering the DCs are supposed to be increased by 5 while in the Dream World.


Overall, this sounds like a really weak class that isn't versatile whatsoever. Always going for the most powerful stuff may not be roleplaying to many, but versatility in a class is something I do consider a part of roleplaying as it allows one to create many characters of the same class which are still all different. Sure, this is easiest with a class that sticks to a system (spellcasting, psionics, incarnum, initiating maneuvers, pact magic, etc.) but admittably, even ordinary melee classes have more versatility than this class. The Ranger has a choice in animal companions, favoured enemy and combat path; the Fighter has a load of feats; the Rogue gets special abilities they may freely choose; the Monk and Barbarian have their fighting styles and totems; the Ninja can use his ki for a small variety of different things.

Also, I don't really get how being asleep most of the time is really productive for roleplaying. With certain abilities like telepathy and being able to get conscious sooner and a few times per day, sure, it could do some roleplaying. But it certainly isn't great for it. Overall, with what it is intended for (roleplaying that is, the sleeping flavour and abilities work great together), it's power, and it's versatility, I can't give it a passing grade in any of these categories. If your intent was somewhat different and it had more versatility, it would get somewhere.

As a final note, I think the teammates of a member of this class would very quickly get kinda tired of dragging them around and protecting them. For a roleplaying class it seems really combat-focused, which is exactly what I'd expect it to try and avoid.

zenanarchist
2010-06-25, 06:09 AM
M-Bark.

A lot of these were already addressed. For the ones that weren't I'll definitely try and address them all. So far they've all been valid and really helpful suggestions that I'm more than happy to implement.

Also, you're right. So I think I'm going to try and move some of the abilities around and try and add a little more options to it to try and increase their roleplay. I needed to give them combat options so they can at least contribute.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for all the amazing feedback guys and girls!

Morph Bark
2010-06-25, 06:56 AM
M-Bark.

A lot of these were already addressed. For the ones that weren't I'll definitely try and address them all. So far they've all been valid and really helpful suggestions that I'm more than happy to implement.

Yeah, I noticed that some were adressed when I posted. Since I took such a long time adressing everything you got to post before me. :smallsmile:

When I came to the end and talked about certain systems for classes (spellcasting, etc.) I thought that psionics could work really well with a class of this sort, though you'd need to select their power list very carefully, but that may not be to your wishes.

Lix Lorn
2010-06-25, 07:44 AM
It could do with more class skills. If you have 14+ intelligence, you have ALL class skills. If you have 16+...

Kiren
2010-06-25, 08:59 AM
Is the frame's dream self and entity or a force? Meaning is it physical as a person to the party?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-06-25, 09:12 AM
Interesting. Expect a thorough critique later tonight. You have many interesting ideas, but your execution could use a bit of work, and the class itself is over the top in terms of how restrictive it is to a character.

It's a great idea, but, as written, it will not function in a game of D&D except under incredibly specific circumstances. There are many instances of bad design intent, although the execution is usually well done. I'll explain why in my critique later tonight.

Protecar
2010-06-25, 09:32 AM
I have to say I really enjoy this concept idea! :smallbiggrin: That said, I am looking forward to all the thorough critiques you are receiving to come to fruition--modifying the class. I would love to play something like this as a class because it seems so interesting!

Edit: I'll chip in a my 2cp,

I'd like it if the sleeper had more opportunities to interact in early levels--maybe getting that ability to wake up x times /day or per x minutes/hours or something.


And can that subconscious slash scale with level? maybe an additional 1d6 per 2 levels? Or maybe even bump the damage dice up as you level, capping at 8d12 or something. I mean, seeing as they get a will save to negate anyways, it'd be nice if the damage scaled into something significant for later levels

(to give you an idea of what I was thinking, something like: 2d6>3d6>3d8>4d8>4d12>5d12>6d12>7d12>8d12). Maybe one of the better optimizers will pipe up if that damage should be better or less. I think that's a decent spot though.

Aotrs Commander
2010-06-25, 09:46 AM
Helpless could be phrased much more simply and achieve the same effects.


Helpless
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets her sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

You're basically there already, with just using the base condition. Especially since according to your RAW, Helpless does not actually make you helpless; it sort of implies it does, because it says you can be coup-de-grace'd, but doesn't come out and say it. On the other hand, it could be interpreted that bonus to hit and damage to apply only when you get rendered helpless, not that you're helpless all the time. That's not what you meant, but it needs to be written a bit clearer, I think, as a matter of good practise. Using the readily available condition would make your life much easier.

You could also replace the odd Will-save progression by just using a normal Good save and adding Iron Will as a bonus feat instead; and that's even better. (I am a great believer it not playing around too much with the save progression because of the ease of calculating them based on the formulas (i.e. 1/3 HD or 2+1/2 HD). It means you don't have to faff about using the table all the time. Personal preference.)

I also think you should have a BAB and Reflex save. Remember even unconscious (and thus helpless characters) still get their Ref saves (albiet -5 instead of their Dex bonus). And if you multiclass (say, into Psion) you might be able to make attacks - i.e. ranged touches or something. I'd suggest giving both Poor progressions.

At 20th level, you'd get +6 -5 Dex = +1 Ref save. At the moment, since you haven't been strictly clear as to whether Helpless actually makes you helpless (and thus denied your Dex bonus), you'd get 0+ your Dex, which might actually be much higher!

I haven't done much heavier analsys than that, but that was a fairly obvious thing to suggest.

Magicyop
2010-06-25, 09:56 AM
I'm going to go against the flow, and say, no, I don't like the regain consciousness ability. It seems very useful from a mechanics point of view, but it really ruins the flavor of the class to me. "I sleep forever... except when I decide to wake up." It seems like without regain consciousness, you could have some really interesting characters, such as those who long to wake up but can't. Maybe make some process for a dreamer to permanently and irreversibly wake up, becoming like a fallen paladin in the process.

My other comment- the damage spells should be More Powerful. If the only opponents that the Dreamer can attack in a significant way are those who have a mind, it becomes a really weak class. The number of opponents the Dreamer is useful against dwindles since it can't really fight undead or constructs very effectively, and those who have good will saves are also pretty impervious. Therefore, I say that the enemies that ARE susceptible to the dreamer should be in much more danger. Make Dream Strike deal 1d10 per level, and make subconcious slash deal AT LEAST 1d6 per level, as it should really be a very devastating mental assault.

Those are my main comments. LOVE the flavor of the class, if you fix those couple things a little bit, I may even play one.

Protecar
2010-06-25, 10:54 AM
Oh! Another thought: the sleeper can't use items right? Well what about magical item-enhancers and such? (i.e. Periapt of Wisdom)

Wealth-By-Level is crucial for any character to be viable so how does that work? Is he prohibited from all items or...?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-06-25, 11:47 AM
Critic's Note

This seems like Prestige Class stuff, to be honest. This is to advanced and to specific a concept to really shine as a base class. If I were you, I'd go back to the drawing board and design a Psionic or Arcane/Divine Prestige Class for this, possibly require the Dream Sight or Onieromancy feats.

Also, I'm a harsh critic. I DID like parts of this class, but I don't normally talk about what I DID like. So accept my apologies if this review offends you. My goal, as always, is to try to help. I'm just sometimes rather caustic.


Author Note

No, you’re not going mad. The class has no weapon specialities, no armour proficiencies, no BAB and no reflex save. This is a role playing class. If you don’t know how to role-play, how to play with a teamwork mind set, move on. The Sleeper is powerful in their own right, just in different ways. I wanted this class to be effectively useless without companions. Yet able to assist and help them in a variety of ways also. So…I bring you the sleeper. Note: You might notice a passing resemblance to a certain character out of Vampire Hunter D.

Poor design philosophy here. You shouldn't justify gimping a vital aspect of characters with "it's a roleplaying class." Just because I roleplay doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to ever pass a Reflex save. Plus, some feats and mechanics you might want to take (or some Prestige Classes) require one or the other of these statistics. Make both poor progressions: you might not actually use them most of the time, but they're there if you need them.

On that note, keep the normal Will save progression, and consider just handing out a bonus (say, +Cha or +2 to Will at 1st level). It's more traditional, and easier on the bookkeeping.


Hit Die[/B]: 1D12

You mean Hit Die: d12. Just a minor nitpick. Also, this is strange...a permenantly sleeping caster seems like it would be exceptionally weak...



The Sleeper’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), , Knowledge (All) (Int), Sense Motive, Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at 1st Level

(6 + Int modifier) ×4.

How can someone permenantly asleep use most of these skills? Also, that's a LOT of skill points for someone with so few class skills...


Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: None

...a normal human has at least a single simple weapon. But fair enough, I suppose.


Helpless (Ex)

The Sleeper, bound to a frame, cannot stand, attack, move, utilise items or do anything requiring movement. Their team mates must carry this frame to allow the Sleeper to travel; be this by hand or on a cart. Enemies gain a +2 bonus to hit and to damage when performing a Coup De gras. Also, the Sleeper has no BAB or reflex save at all due to being bound and helpless. However their will power and mind are incredibly powerful, and as such have an extremely high Will and force of mind. The Sleeper, studying and living endlessly in a mental plane, knows all languages and has charted the untapped areas of his mind, gaining telapathy out to 100ft.

...
...
...
:smallannoyed:

So I have a class feature that serves only to make me a burden to my party (especially in combat) and that makes me auto-fail saves and be really easy to kill? Oh, and telepathy. But that does next to nothing to make up for this. This is a gimptastic ability, and its design makes it an annoyance to the party. It has to be revised completely, or removed. Hence why I say PrC: you could have a sleeper swathed in a dreamscape that allows him to, for example, hover in a bubble of his own dreams, but that's overpowered at level 1. This, however, is unacceptable. It's why the Frenzied Berserker is poorly designed: your part should not suffer for your choice of class.

It's a really interesting concept, but definitely needs to be fully thought out a second time from a gameplay perspective.


Borrow from Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may, three per day, as a full round action, pull a creature from the stuff of dreams and force it into reality. This is a full round action and lasts two rounds plus the Sleepers class levels. The CR of the creature summoned in this way must be equivalent to a maximum of ¾ of the sleepers total class levels. At 10th level he increases this to four times per day, at 15th this increases to a total of six. At no point may a summoned creature use their abilities to summon another creature, or an ability that increases the amount of creatures summoned beyond a total of six at 15th level. At no point may a creature use their abilities to bend reality in any way. (Cast spells, use abilities that alter time, create new things). The creature may attack, defend and move.

So at level 1, as a FULL ROUND ACTION, I get a CR 3/4 creature for 3 rounds. 3/day. That's my FULL contribution to the party. After that? I'm a fancy paperweight. This should probably be more often, and possibly slightly stronger, although I'm not sure about the latter part.


Subconcious Slash (Su)

The Sleeper has recognised his need to attack to survive. He gains a special type of attack. This attack is a direct barrage to the targets brain and the Sleeper applies his intelligence modifier to the DC of this ability. The Sleeper, twice per round designates a foe, this foe must make a Will Save (DC15+1/2 Sleeper levels+Wisdom modifier) or take 2d6 damage. At tenth level this increases to 3d6 damage. This ability can only affect those creatures with an intelligence over 8.This is a standard action.

1 standard action (at will) for 4d6 damage at level 2 is very, very good. 1 standard action for 6d6 damage at level 10 is meh. At 20th level, it's a drop in the bucket. Also, why break the normal 10 + 1/2 level formula? That formula is consistent through everything for a reason: it works. And it works well.


Dream Material (Su)

As a full round action the Sleeper may utilise dream material to lift their binding and move them 40’ wherein afterwards the frame sets down. No other action can be taken when using this movement. This method of travel allows the Sleeper one foot per level above the ground. There must be solid ground underfoot to travel in this way.

So my only want to move myself means I can't contribute to the fight. Hooray. Again, I'm a burden to the party. And I still can't do anything but summon a couple paltry creatures, or deal 4d6 damage (save for 2d6). This needs to change.


Dream Defense (Su)

The Sleeper forces the creatures in his dreams to time their forays into reality precisely with the blows and spells of his enemies. The Sleeper gains DR 2/- every two levels to a total of DR 10/- at 20th. He also gains Spell Resistance 5 X Sleeper Class levels.

Now we jump entirely in the other direction, and give our character unbeatable Spell Resistance. I STILL have no real use to the party, but I'm not a pain to my enemies. Still, if they kill the party and walk briskly away, I guess that's that. In short, you've given the Sleeper something overpowered and STILL USELESS in most situations. DR is nice, but, again, only exists to shore up the artificial weakness you've forced upon the class.


Heightened Senses (Ex)

The Sleepers senses increase exponentially, utilising the powerful abilities of his mind. He gains Scent out to 60ft, Life sense out to 60ft, Tremor sense out to 30ft.

Good. 'Cause previously? You couldn't see. Anything. 'Curse, you still can't, can you? Maybe think about giving him some normal sight somewhere along the line...

And again, this is a passive ability that doesn't help much.


Proximity Defense (Su)

Whenever an enemy travels within a 15ft radius of a Sleeper, the characters Dream defences activate, firing off a pin point beam of white raw energy. This does 1d6 damage (Reflex save (DC10+1/2 Character level + Wisdom modifier) for half) per every second level of the Sleeper. This does not cost an action and is activated no matter how many creatures enter this radius. If a creature leaves the radius and enters again in the same round, the defenses are fired twice.

...now my character is on auto-pilot. Wheel me into battle and set me down. I'll grab a coke.


Mental Stability

Due to being withdrawn in his own world, the Sleeper gains complete immunity to mind affecting spells and abilities.

More defenses. I'm now a nigh-invincible (unless my party is occupied and a monster gets near me for 1 full round) character on autopilot except for 4d6 damage a round (save for 1/2) and summoning a couple monsters 4/day.


Ally Assist (Su)

The Sleeper recognises the intrinsic need for their allies and enables them heightened abilities to further the Sleepers cause. They gain a pool of points equal to double their class level. This pool may be distributed in any of the following ways:

To increase the DC of a save
To add to their next attack
To add to the next strike versus AC
To add to a skill check
To add in damage to their next attack or spell
No more than a total of 10 points may be spent in this way. This is an immediate action.

...what does this have to do with sleeping? I'm not sure what this power is doing here. That, and it's nothing particularly special, although it IS useful.



Regain Conciousness (Ex)

The Sleeper, for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier may regain consciousness to perform social feats such as knowledge checks, charisma checks and mental attribute checks. During this time the Sleeper loses his immunity to Mind Affecting spells. This is a standard action.

So before I couldn't use any of my skills. Interesting. Also, this is next to no time at all. AND this is where that Reflex save stuff could come in handy.

That said, if the character is supposed to be permenantly asleep, letting him wake up feels like cheating somehow.


Dream Strike (Su)

The Sleeper strikes out from his dreams, throwing dream material with such force and fury that it causes tremendous damage. Twice per day, the Sleeper may make a strike at all hostile creatures within 10ft. The creatures must make a reflex save (DC10+Sleeper Level) or be blinded and take 1d8 point of damage per sleeper level. This is a standard action.

2/day I have an effect worse that many spells, with a completely arbitrary save DC. I am level 10. I am a sad burden on my party's shoulders, and can do almost nothing to contribute to a day of adventuring, OR a day of sitting around.



Blanket Protection (Ex)

The Sleeper produces a radiant protective, a blue field of protective energy that surrounds his form in a bubble effect, created from the stuff of dreams and utilised to shield his companions. All allies standing within 10ft of the Sleeper gain +4 untyped bonus to AC and +2 to hit and +2 to damage. If an opponent has line of sight to an ally leaving this blanket of protection, that ally cannot gain the bonuses again for a full 24 hours, the dream link is considered broken.

Useful. However, it's another passive "wheel me in and let me go" ability. Meh. Also, the conditions for losing the effect are strange to say the least, and highly restrictive.


Variable Invisibility (Ex)

The sleeper blinks in and out of visibility randomly, utilising the dream world to harbour his consciousness. The Sleeper is permanently in one of two states. Every 1d4 rounds he shifts between visibility and invisibility again. This feature is permanently in effect. Those hostile to the caster with line of sight, must succeed on a Will Save (DC5+Caster level) or be shaken, as per the ability listed in the Phb.

Well this is strange. And, again, passive. And relative useless to me except as a defense. And ANNOYING to me as my allies won't know where I am, meaning I'm even MORE defenseless.


Dream Transportation (Ex)

The sleeper has a powerful link to sleep and dreams, and may four times per day; transport his body to any sleeping or dreaming creature within 20 miles per every Sleeper Level. He now also may move his bound form as a move action 5/day.

To little, to late. And very specific. And replicated by teleport. And not particularly useful. :smallfrown:


Ally Recall (Su)

The Sleeper may, twice per day, recall any ally within 50ft per Sleeper level to his immediate person. This places the ally in the next adjacent square. The transport must be mutually agreeable. That is, the Sleeper attempts a recall, which triggers a response in the recipient. They may choose to follow the response or deny it. This is an immediate action.

Again, an ability solely to shore up an artificial weakness.


Nightmares (Su)

The sleeper may, once per week, enter the dreams of any creature within 15 miles per every Sleeper level. When the Sleeper enters this dream, both he and the recipient become Fighters of equal level to their current class levels. Both have no feats, no magic items and the following attributes.

Strength: 18, Dexterity: 17, Wisdom: 13, Intelligence: 11 Charisma: 18

Both have one long sword and one long bow with an unlimited amount of arrows.

The Sleeper, however, due to initiating the dream, may take one creature into the dream. This creature is equal to a maximum of ¾ of the Sleepers level (So CR 5 at level 20). The victor arises from the sleep with no damage. However the loser takes half the total amount of damage incurred in the dream upon waking and receives -5 to attack, -5 to damage and -5 to all saves for 24 hours. It takes four hours of concentration to activate a Nightmare.

Interesting, yet incredibly complicated. Also, you're practically assured the win, given equal characters, one of whom has a buddy. You also mean CR 15, not CR 5. Again, annoying to your fellow players though: nobody wants to sit around for half an hour while Jim slugs away at the DM's BBEG in the dreamscape. Plus, the save DC of creature's abilities is adjusted to account for magic items and stat increases...which neither Fighter has, meaning a well chosen creature is basically an automatic win.


Hopes and Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may use Wish as a Spell like ability once per day. This wish may only fulfil a combat role, never wealth or power. This is a standard action.

...Wish as a class ability? Please don't. That will just get out of hand. Wish is complex enough that 1/week is probably more than most groups would ever want to see it. One DM Wish adjudication (and ensuing argument) per session will get crazy.


My dream (Su)

The Sleeper ensures that his allies only ever enter purposeful slumbers and that their minds are free from corruption. Twice per day the Sleeper may instantly dismiss any sleep effect or mind affecting effect within 15ft radius of his person as an immediate action.

Meh. Moderately useful, I suppose.


Pleasant Dreams (Su)

As a full round action, the sleeper removes his friends and allies from the real world, sending them for two rounds into a deep slumber, untouchable via the real world. During this slumber all participants undergo the effects of a Mass Heal spell. Secondly, when they retain consciousness the Sleeper may designate one spot anywhere within 15ft of their previous location where he would like to place them. This is a full round action and removes the Sleeper from the field as well. All hostile spell effects and abilities and status effects still elapse outside of real time. However, all positive spells and effects as well as abilities effectively pause while in the dream state. Upon awakening, the participants in the Pleasant Dream are all granted +2 to hit, +2 damage and +2 to all their saves for 1d4 rounds each.

Another ability to far in the other direction. Now I'm an auto-healing machine that can keep my party at full health every 2 rounds.


Dream Personification (Su)

The Sleeper presents his dream self into reality through sheer force of will. The Sleepers radiant ethereal body floats 5 feet above the ground, has a move speed of 80ft and any attacks (and targeted spells, but not area spells) suffer a 75% miss chance.

The Sleeper gains 3 attacks per round while in this form, they are ranged rays, dealing 6D6 (Reflex Save for half (DC10+1/2 Character level+Wisdom Modifier) and may move and then attack as many times as his movement allows. He may move 10 ft and attack 3 times, or move 80 ft in a single round and attack once with all three attacks. This form has half the hit points of the Sleeper and if destroyed immediately incurs this much damage to the Sleeper bound to the frame.

The Sleeper may choose to self destruct this form. Doing so requires a full round action and incurs 10d10 damage to all within a 50ft radius. This action immediately brings the Sleeper down to ¼ of their total hit points.
The Sleeper may pass through objects, walls or barriers no more than 1 foot thick as part of their move action, and has True Seeing out to 40ft as per the spell.

Activating this ability is a standard action and it lasts for 1d4 rounds X the Sleepers Wisdom modifier.

A possibly useful ability...and, again, it mainly just deals damage. This saddens me greatly.


Dream World (Su)

As a full round action the Sleeper draws all individuals within 80ft into his dream world. Each individual not willing to be subsumed gets a Will save (DC10+1/2 Sleeper level+Wisdom modifier). Upon being drawn into this world a number of effects take place.

All weapons disappear except for those which the Dreamer designates.
All hostile enemies undergo Will saves (DC5+Sleepers level) every two rounds or come under the effects of Fear (as per the spell)
All hostile enemies are under a constant barrage of dreams dealing two 4d4 attacks per round.
The Dreamer may cast the spell Greater Shadow Conjuration as a free action once per round as a spell caster of equivalent level.
The Dreamers abilities double in damage and length while in the dream world and all DC’s increase by five.
This ability lasts for 1d8 rounds+ the Sleepers Wisdom modifier.

This capstone is rather complicated, but interesting in theory.
I don't particulary like it, though. It could be both simplified and made more interesting.


Critic's Conclusion

Flavor Grade: D. Interesting base concept, but not really expanded upon at all.
Class Grade: D-. Just unworkable as written.
Creativity Grade: D-. So much could have been done with the concept. So little actually was.

You have an interesting concept, backed up by a poorly designed class. I'm basically a low-damage dealing invincible buff dispenser, and I have no real ability to move, use skills, or use what few class abilities I have. I can't contribute in 90% of situations, and can be outclassed by other classes in the situations I CAN use abilities in. I'm also a constant burden on my companions, who have to stop doing what THEY do well to compensate for my glaring weaknesses (that serve no real mechanical or roleplaying purpose).

I also fail to see the roleplay possibilities I was hoping to see here. It's rather a bland class, in my opinion, and I see nothing here more conducive to roleplay than if I chose to play a dream-tormented Warlock or Psion. In fact, I think parts of this class LIMIT my possibilities, as I'm very much restricted in everything and everything I do.

Who would want one of these along? How the heck did they develop an organization? What is their role in a party? Why, in short, would I take this class?

I do see a class in this concept (as I love dream-based classes), but it's not the class you have here.

Would you mind if I were to whip something up? It might help you to see what I'm talking about in my criticism, and where I personally would run with this idea. Which might be helpful. Then again, it might not. Your call. :smallbiggrin:

Kiren
2010-06-25, 02:17 PM
Hey, Djinn I was thinking, giving it a physical guardian in the world, to carry/protect, (Big Daddy bio shock sort of), would offset some of the parties problems. A splinter of the dreamself.

zenanarchist
2010-06-26, 03:17 AM
Wow. Tonnes of feedback. Okay.

I'm going to spend some time tomorrow afternoon (Aus time) updating the class and trying to implement suggestions and fix criticisms. Stay tuned.

Mystic Muse
2010-06-26, 04:49 AM
Pleasant Dreams (Su)

As a full round action, the sleeper removes his friends and allies from the real world, sending them for two rounds into a deep slumber, untouchable via the real world. During this slumber all participants undergo the effects of a Mass Heal spell. Secondly, when they retain consciousness the Sleeper may designate one spot anywhere within 15ft of their previous location where he would like to place them. This is a full round action and removes the Sleeper from the field as well. All hostile spell effects and abilities and status effects still elapse outside of real time. However, all positive spells and effects as well as abilities effectively pause while in the dream state. Upon awakening, the participants in the Pleasant Dream are all granted +2 to hit, +2 damage and +2 to all their saves for 1d4 rounds each. Too powerful. You're a healing machine with this ability and your enemies can't do anything about it.



Nightmares (Su)

The sleeper may, once per week, enter the dreams of any creature within 15 miles per every Sleeper level. When the Sleeper enters this dream, both he and the recipient become Fighters of equal level to their current class levels. Both have no feats, no magic items and the following attributes.

Strength: 18, Dexterity: 17, Wisdom: 13, Intelligence: 11 Charisma: 18

Both have one long sword and one long bow with an unlimited amount of arrows.

The Sleeper, however, due to initiating the dream, may take one creature into the dream. This creature is equal to a maximum of ¾ of the Sleepers level (So CR 5 at level 20). The victor arises from the sleep with no damage. However the loser takes half the total amount of damage incurred in the dream upon waking and receives -5 to attack, -5 to damage and -5 to all saves for 24 hours. It takes four hours of concentration to activate a Nightmare. This ability take a rather long time to use, has to be used on somebody who's sleeping (And there are several things that don't have to sleep) has a horrid time between when you can use it again and the fighter part is poorly defined. For one thing, you're now a fighter without bonus feats which makes the class even weaker. For another, if you don't actually become a fighter and keep your abilities you aren't going to do anything because you'd have an attack bonus of +4 due to no BAB. If you do become a fighter, your better saves are overwritten and you can't use any of your abilities until the dream ends.


Dream Transportation (Ex)

The sleeper has a powerful link to sleep and dreams, and may four times per day; transport his body to any sleeping or dreaming creature within 20 miles per every Sleeper Level. He now also may move his bound form as a move action 5/day. This is a poor replication of teleport. At level 20 with this you can move four hundred miles to any sleeping thing. Once again, the creature having to be asleep is pretty limiting. Compare this to a wizard or Sorceror where at level 20 with a wizard you can move 2,000 miles accurately anywhere.



Regain Conciousness (Ex)

The Sleeper, for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier may regain consciousness to perform social feats such as knowledge checks, charisma checks and mental attribute checks. During this time the Sleeper loses his immunity to Mind Affecting spells. This is a standard action.

So, an unlimited amount of times per day I can be permanently awake for a decent amount of rounds just restricted by how often I can use a standard action? I feel like this completely violate the spirit of the class.



Hopes and Dreams (Su)

The Sleeper may use Wish as a Spell like ability once per day. This wish may only fulfil a combat role, never wealth or power. This is a standard action. No. Wish once per day as a class ability without any cost is much too powerful.


Ally Assist (Su)

The Sleeper recognises the intrinsic need for their allies and enables them heightened abilities to further the Sleepers cause. They gain a pool of points equal to double their class level. This pool may be distributed in any of the following ways:

To increase the DC of a save
To add to their next attack
To add to the next strike versus AC
To add to a skill check
To add in damage to their next attack or spell
No more than a total of 10 points may be spent in this way. This is an immediate action. Useful but doesn't really fit the flavor of the class.

Remember, just because a class is made for roleplaying reasons doesn't mean it can't be a good class mechanically. Right now, I wouldn't take it just because the abilities fluctuate too much in power. There are some really powerful ones, some really weak ones and ones that are just unclear.

Many of my critiques are re-iterations of Djinn's but I figured it just reinforces his position that the class is poorly implemented. I don't mean to insult you with that comment. I'm not very good with homebrew myself. I just know when certain abilities go too far ,underperform or, in the case of nightmare, are vague and complex.

Lix Lorn
2010-06-26, 08:37 AM
It seems awkward that they can't move, to be honest. It fits the background, but maybe fluff them as mildly psionic/magical, and have them just levitate constantly? Could give them Reflex then, too.

Siosilvar
2010-06-26, 08:13 PM
Hit Die is too big. d6 maybe?

BAB should be 1/2 per level. Reflex save should be 1/3 per level. Will save should be 1 lower at all points in time.

Weapon and Armor proficiencies none... forgivable, but all other classes at least give one simple weapon.

Subconcious Slash, at first glance, is far too strong to start (seriously, what's up with that save DC?), then wimps out as it progresses. The warlock's Eldritch Blast is a good progression for at-will damage. Two attacks per round should be replaced with iteratives based off of... guess what, BAB.


Dream Defense (Su)

...Spell Resistance 5 X Sleeper Class levels.
What.

Am I reading this right? This needs fixing. Complete immunity to magic at level 6 is absurd. Not to mention that this is a defense for someone you want to be defenseless.



Heightened Senses: Tremorsense is one word, Life sense is... what, exactly? and Scent makes little sense to me, not to mention being redundant.

Proximity Defense seems to completely go against all that you've stated for this class to do.

Mental Stability is redundant with Dream Defense and probably too early for what it does. Mind Blank is accessible at 15th level, so... 12th, maybe?

Ally Assist: They gain 16 points but can spend no more than 10? Okay...
The rest of the ability needs more clarification as well.

Regain Conciousness: I'd move this to an earlier level and might even suggest making it the other way around; you enter a dream-state in which you're more powerful, but lose your defenses.

Dream Strike: Blind needs a duration (even if it's permanent), and okay, it's a moderate amount of damage twice a day.. oh wait, it's a Reflex save, and it's a negation save.

Blanket Protection: Why the attack/damage boost, short range, and large AC bonus?

Variable Invisibility: Who's the "caster"? When does the will save apply? Why is the save so odd (normal is 10 + 1/2 level OR full equivalent spell level + ability score)? In addition, should probably be longer between changes.

Dream Transportation: Umm, okay. Needs clarification, though I think I know what you intended.

Ally Recall: "The Sleeper may, twice per day, teleport any willing creature within 50 feet to an adjacent square."

Nightmares: Unclear again, though I think I know what you meant. A duel to the death inside of another's mind, and the loser wakes half-dead and with an insane penalty? Try fatigued or exhausted for your penalty.

Hopes and Dreams: Again, more clarification.

My Dream: Waaaay to late to get an ability with this small of an effect. Opposed caster level checks are your friends, too. Nothing (or almost nothing) should ever be guaranteed.

Pleasant Dreams: If there was ever a time to give something a per/day limit, this would be it.

Dream Personification: Clarification on the attacks, please? Also, typical wording is "deals", not "incurs", damage. 75% miss chance is uberstrong.

Dream World: Also known as "I win all encounters, no save"? Too strong, even for 20th.

zenanarchist
2010-06-26, 08:27 PM
Ooooookay.

So I incorporated changes from the first 5 critiques. Only because that's where it was up to when I started editing.

The class now has some degree of movement functionality and they are MUCH less of a burden on their friends. They also gain an ability to "see" early on, they have a meat shield big brother in case their allies are too busy to see them. I made all saves typical (10+class level+XXX), I gimped some abilities and boosted others according to the critiques and I added a little more flavour.

Oh, also, they gained a reflex save.

But I still refuse to give them a BAB, the whole flavour is this class never leaves their binding. So what on earth are they going to do with BAB and weapon proficiencies.

Ok guys, let the new critiques begin!

Siosilvar
2010-06-26, 08:33 PM
But I still refuse to give them a BAB, the whole flavour is this class never leaves their binding. So what on earth are they going to do with BAB and weapon proficiencies.

Make touch attacks, of course! Silent, stilled spells are perfectly valid mental actions that could benefit from BAB.

EDIT: Big Brother is... oy. Better hope they're replaceable.

EDIT2: Your Will save progression is still incredibly weird.

2 + 1/2 levels is the "good" progression.

zenanarchist
2010-06-26, 08:49 PM
Make touch attacks, of course! Silent, stilled spells are perfectly valid mental actions that could benefit from BAB.

EDIT: Big Brother is... oy. Better hope they're replaceable.

EDIT2: Your Will save progression is still incredibly weird.

2 + 1/2 levels is the "good" progression.

But I didn't give him any silent, stilled spells, and if he gains spells...chances are he's multiclassed and then he can just use their (pathetically dismal due to not getting any from this class) BAB, no?

Hope that's right.

Made Big Brother better.

lol the oy indeed at the will saves, I thought I'd made it right. Damn.

Dead_Jester
2010-06-26, 08:54 PM
First of all, I agree with the others about the Bab. I mean, a Wizard that whose most physical effort in years is flipping pages with hid fingers still gets Bab.

I think the Big Brother ability would be better with a permanent dream creature instead of a random fighter, because it would help with the credibility of the ability, and wouldn't come with all the problems of getting a replacement. Also, a fighter of half ones level is almost always useless, because it can't contribute (except as a meat shield), but a creature that can easily be changed is much more useful, in combat and for utility.

Foray into Reality needs a duration, an action cost and clarification if he can still use his powers (and if he can now target undead or constructs if he can physically see them).

Also, Nightmares definitely needs to be once per day, because once per week abilities tend to never get used because people are always waiting for the "perfect moment" to use it, and don't want to be stuck without it when they need it.

The 17th level ability Mental Scan is listed as Corpse Scan in the table, and comes in way to late to be useful (most PC face undead and constructs mostly in the 7-15 level range), and couldn't he just behave as if he was Blind (must guess enemy positions unless his allies pinpoint them for him)?

Dream Personification need an amount of uses per day, and the damage for using the self-destruct should be 1 fourth of his total hitpoint, because now he can't die of it (because of diminishing fractions).

Milskidasith
2010-06-26, 10:16 PM
Why are people seeing Pleasant Dreams as such a good ability? It's weak.

You send your allies completely out of the fight for two rounds and mass heal them...

Your enemies have two free rounds to buff up, cast their own mass heals (as a standard action), etc, while your allies are all unconcious on another plane. It's an ability that, unless you're fighting something that doesn't particularly have the ability to buff (wild animals, which shouldn't be a threat at that level even if the animal is a tarrasque), will hurt you more than help.

zenanarchist
2010-06-27, 05:18 PM
Why are people seeing Pleasant Dreams as such a good ability? It's weak.

You send your allies completely out of the fight for two rounds and mass heal them...

Your enemies have two free rounds to buff up, cast their own mass heals (as a standard action), etc, while your allies are all unconcious on another plane. It's an ability that, unless you're fighting something that doesn't particularly have the ability to buff (wild animals, which shouldn't be a threat at that level even if the animal is a tarrasque), will hurt you more than help.

You know what Mils, I actually agree. I'm going to make no time pass in the real world but all negative effects still elapse. That stops enemies buffing, and helps the party heal up.

zenanarchist
2010-06-27, 05:26 PM
First of all, I agree with the others about the Bab. I mean, a Wizard that whose most physical effort in years is flipping pages with hid fingers still gets Bab.

I think the Big Brother ability would be better with a permanent dream creature instead of a random fighter, because it would help with the credibility of the ability, and wouldn't come with all the problems of getting a replacement. Also, a fighter of half ones level is almost always useless, because it can't contribute (except as a meat shield), but a creature that can easily be changed is much more useful, in combat and for utility.

Foray into Reality needs a duration, an action cost and clarification if he can still use his powers (and if he can now target undead or constructs if he can physically see them).

Also, Nightmares definitely needs to be once per day, because once per week abilities tend to never get used because people are always waiting for the "perfect moment" to use it, and don't want to be stuck without it when they need it.

The 17th level ability Mental Scan is listed as Corpse Scan in the table, and comes in way to late to be useful (most PC face undead and constructs mostly in the 7-15 level range), and couldn't he just behave as if he was Blind (must guess enemy positions unless his allies pinpoint them for him)?

Dream Personification need an amount of uses per day, and the damage for using the self-destruct should be 1 fourth of his total hitpoint, because now he can't die of it (because of diminishing fractions).

Could you clarify on the dream creature? Don't forget, non-player, so dumb down your suggestions for lil old me. Do you mean celestial creature like the ranger/paladin gain? Or....?

Also, oops at the wrong table listing. Will edit. Also, will cahnge nightmares to once a day!! Hmmm..... Okay so the general consensus does seem to be forcing my hand with the BAB..... Is 0/0/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3/3 etc.... acceptable?

zenanarchist
2010-06-27, 11:13 PM
Updated pleasent dreams, nightmare to once a day, changed him to have a BAB (but never more than one attack) and refluffed an ability or two. Also incurred heftier damage from Dream Personification.

Protecar
2010-06-29, 01:59 AM
Does the Big Brother get any items to start off with or does he have to be supplied or does it get built using standard NPC WBL?

zenanarchist
2010-06-29, 02:01 AM
Hmmmmm fair question. I'm actually unsure. Considering that the Sleeper almost never needs items or armour, I'd say their wealth could purchase items that fall from the corpse when the brother is killed?

Doppelganger
2010-06-29, 11:37 AM
This class needs some fluff. At the risk of sounding harsh, so far all you've said "these guys sleep, and they get some weird abilities out of it, because, um, they do!" Maybe their family ticked off someone in charge of the dreamscape, and so they're cursed to be bound inside it forever, dying if they aren't taken care of. However, over the generations (no, don't ask how they reproduce. Cell division?) they've adapted and slowly gained influence over the dreamscape, and can drag it into the real world through sheer force of will. Or, maybe they're inhabidants of the dreamscape naturaly, and the bodies they have on the material plane are just their dreams. Or, maybe they're spellcasters who explored the dreamscape until they got lost and couldn't escape. Think about it. Regardless, if the flavor is that they can somehow bring their dreams into the material plane, they should probably have a lot more illusions/enchantment/conjuration than direct damage, as that's what is traditionaly assossiated with dreams (forcing others into the dreamscape/changing reality)
/end rant

Lix Lorn
2010-06-29, 02:25 PM
(no, don't ask how they reproduce. Cell division?)
They drag their partner into the dreamscape, and there they make love. When their partner awakes, they/the dreamer may have mysteriously actually become pregnant.

jiriku
2010-06-29, 02:48 PM
Recommendations:

D4 hit die. Psychic shenanigans aside, you're the ultimate couch potato. Add defensive class features if you want to live, but accept that d4 hit die.

Class skills: Appraise, Decipher Script, Gather Information, and Use Magic Device are all inappropriate, as they require, you know, moving around. The sleeper thus has no plausible means of praticing these skills. Delete them. Replace with Autohypnosis, Concentration, and Intimidate, as these can all be performed as purely mental actions or via telepathy.

Weapon and armor proficiencies: I'd give proficiency with one simple weapon, as a commoner has. Unless he was born unconscious, the sleeper had opportunity to swing a stick at the other kiddos before he picked up his first level in this class.

Base attack: Use the poor progression. There's a certain degree of rules standardization present within the D&D system, and you want to adhere to that progression unless there's a pressing reason to deviate. You have no pressing reason to deviate: the sleeper is already unconscious, and doesn't need a nerf applied to attack rolls that he can't make.

Saves: Will save should be +2 at 1st level.

I'd suggest a radically different take on how the class works at low levels. To wit: wake up. You could start with the ability to doze off for a few rounds in order to gain powers, progressing to the ability to do much more during a longer sleep, progressing to full-out narcolepsy, adding sleepwalking, waking dreamfulness, and eventually a total out-of-body experience like that dude in VH:D.

Also, drop in a line or two of flavor text explaining how the sleeper gains his powers. Why does being asleep let them do amazing things? I mean, that guy from VH:D was cool, but he wasn't just asleep, he was clinically dead for short periods of time and having a super-powered out-of-body experience.