OOTS #730 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Mystic Muse]

Hehe. I love this one.

[Tass]

Yay! Bar fight (or brunchroom anyway)! What Belkar does best.

So this is why he didn't get involved earlier.

[Jokasti]

Mr. Scruffy is now smarter than the average human child.

[Basooned]

Mr Scruffy #1 Animal Companion for president!

[Draconi Redfir]

Mr. ponytail is obviusly a monk :P

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

Aah, now I have Ballroom Blitz stuck in my head!

Oh, Mr. Scruffy. To think a good old-fashioned food fight could escalate to this. :smallbiggrin:

[Gan The Grey]

Who is more evil - Belkar or Mr. Scruffy?

YOU DECIDE AMERICA.

[Jokasti]

What class is the girl? Soulknife?

[Hypothetical]

:belkar: He causes more Chaos, Death, and Destruction before noon than most people do all year.

Mr. Scruffy, FTW!!!!!!!

[Hypothetical]

Aah, now I have Ballroom Blitz stuck in my head!

Oh, Mr. Scruffy. To think a good old-fashioned food fight could escalate to this. :smallbiggrin:

There's a man at the back who's ready to crack as he raises his hands to the sky, and the girl in the corner let no one ignore her she can kill you with a wink of her eye.....

[TheBigChulupa]

That poor bartender..what a way to start ones shift.

[Roc Ness]

BwahahahaHAhaaaa! I love this comic. :smallbiggrin:

[The Rose Dragon]

Warlocks and soulknives! How wonderful!

[sun_tzu]

Interesting fatalism on Roy's part. I wonder if some of Elan's genre-savvy is rubbing off him...

[Hypothetical]

Since no one has mentioned it yet....I LOVE the fact that Roy, Mr. Calm cool and collected, decided to escalate this to a full fledged fight.

Could it be that he sees this as a chance to finally work off his anger issues after his whole post-dead-hallucinations experience?

[Hendel]

Maggots for breakfast?? Gross!!

How do you dodge an Eldritch Bolt or did he just miss the ranged touck attack??

[Killer Angel]

Now, THIS is a BAR FIGHT! :smallbiggrin:

(indeed, lot of dangerous people in it, eh? Could the barman be an ex-adventurer with a heavy mace +5 to sedate the brawls? :smalltongue:)

[Garwain]

It seems Roy's strenght IS his strenght.

[LuisDantas]

A bit of a cliche, as lampshaded by Roy himself. That is probably why he did not bother avoiding it.


It seems Roy's strenght IS his strenght.

Combat-wise, that may be. But I like his no-nonsense attitude, despite past failings while dealing with Miko and Belkar.

But if you mean his half-dragon judo throw, remember that he is wearing a belt of strength.

[mucat]

Mr. Scruffy totally did that on purpose. And now he's probably the only one in the room who the soulknife doesn't want to thrash.

Devious kitty.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm curious as to what sort of roll Roy got on his strength check to frickin' body slam a half-dragon ogre on to the table behind him. :smalleek:


Well, he has a plus six to his strength and probably an extra plus 3 from levels. Assuming he started with sixteen that's a 25 which means he can lift 800 pounds over his head without even trying.

At least I think it's a plus six. It could be a plus four in which case it's 600.

There could also be other modifiers I'm unaware of.

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

There's a man at the back who's ready to crack as he raises his hands to the sky, and the girl in the corner let no one ignore her she can kill you with a wink of her eye.....

Aiee! Time to hide behind the counter with that poor bartender...

[abbott.e]

I like it that the Gannji is using the butt end of his fork/halberd thing, he knows it's just a brawl, not a fight to the death.

[hamishspence]

I wonder if its at all likely that the EoB will care who started the brawl?

It's possible that the combatants will all end up in jail- and Elan may have to persuade his dad to set Roy & Belkar free.

[danielmayer]

And again the tavern is populated only by adventurers :D
I really like this one, especially the girl-friend-of-the-monk.

[lothos]

That's great...... made a great start to my weekend :-)

[hamishspence]

We can also say that a non-SRD class (the warlock) has appeared in the strip and actually played a part- without lampshading about it being non-core- (but some people will argue that it still counts as a "one panel joke")

[Southern Cross]

And we now have confirmation that Complete Arcane is used in OOTS!
Does this mean that Varsuuvius will learn the Energy Substitution feat?

[SmaugTheYounger]

:smallsmile: Well, that was worth the wait. Loved it. Just one thing:
That poor bartender..what a way to start ones shift.
Somehow I thougt that the proprietor of a B&B with the adjective bloody in its name would be more used to sudden bursts of violence.

[Agi Hammerthief]

bwahaha
this totally put a grin on my face just before my Italian co-worker walked past :smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

And we now have confirmation that Complete Arcane is used in OOTS!
Does this mean that Varsuuvius will learn the Energy Substitution feat?

It might also mean Tsusiko's orbs follow Complete Arcane rules, and are conjurations, despite her calling them "evocations" and them following Tome & Blood naming conventions.

We already had "You must be a warlock" as an attempt to provoke V- but this is the first appearence of an actual warlock.

[mucat]

Hey, I almost didn't notice: not only does Belkar not have knives in his hands as he leaps into the brawl, but he's not even complaining about the fact! If he's not careful, he really is gonna internalize some of this fake character development of his...

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

Hey, I almost didn't notice: not only does Belkar not have knives in his hands as he leaps into the brawl, but he's not even complaining about the fact! If he's not careful, he really is gonna internalize some of this fake character development of his...

I guess the brawl's achieved fistfight caliber, but isn't quite knife fight caliber yet... :smallwink:

[Jokasti]

Hmmm. What is it about these helmets that cause their wearers eyes to glow white? I know! They allow the wearer to shoot eye beams!

[hamishspence]

I wonder if the Fans of Gannji are going to insist

"Hey- he's using the butt end of his weapon against a warlock and soulknife that are using lethal attacks (soul blade, and eldritch blast) on him. He must be nonevil!"

[Grogmir]

Mr Scruffy FTW!

You're all assuming he's agreeing with Belker - that its not worth getting involved while the fight is so small - therefore Mr.S makes it bigger.

But what if he's disagreeing with B? and throwing the bowl is actually an attempt at helping Roy - after all - his actions make someone attack their enemy. Thereby helping them.

[Squeejee]

Awesome, a bar fight!

Also, let it be noted that Roy didn't *intentionally* escalate the fight, but he may have been trying to contain it by not letting the Warlock get smashed. And as for his strength to be throwing around half-dragons - well, remember his full BAB contributes to his grapple modifier as well, and that Human/Dragon/Troll thing has enough of a level adjustment to be at a severe disadvantage in that area ;)

EDIT: Note on Ganji - he hasn't actually done anything "Evil" IMO - sneaky and underhanded, sure, but that comes with his occupation.

[Rad]

Mr Scruffy FTW!

You're all assuming he's agreeing with Belker - that its not worth getting involved while the fight is so small - therefore Mr.S makes it bigger.

But what if he's disagreeing with B? and throwing the bowl is actually an attempt at helping Roy - after all - his actions make someone attack their enemy. Thereby helping them.

I'm still shocked at him doing something on his own initiative like that... it's the forst time that I can think of!

[CWater]

:smallbiggrin: I love bar fights! (Or brunchroom, whatever) They're some much fun! Well, as a part of a comic at least. I second the idea that Roy and Belkar will end up in jail and Elan has to talk them out. Could get some snarky comments out of Haley..:smallamused:

[Anethiel]

Note also that the warlock capitalizes "Complete Breakfast" as if it were a manual.

[factotum]

Laughed at this one...always nice to see everything going to Hell in a handbasket for Roy, despite his best attempts to avoid it. And nice to see that, as per usual, *everyone* in the tavern is an adventurer with class levels!

[hamishspence]

Note also that the warlock capitalizes "Complete Breakfast" as if it were a manual.

Roy uses the same phrase here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0214.html

only without capitals.

[AxeD]

Is it just me, or is no-one taking any damage (ie, little red lines of pain) from any of these attacks? Also, Roy is such a bad-ass. A man amongst men.

[Cheesegear]

I'm curious as to what sort of roll Roy got on his strength check to frickin' body slam a half-dragon ogre on to the table behind him. :smalleek:

His strength is equal to or greater than 24 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219). He should be able to pull it off fairly easily.

[Gan The Grey]

Is it just me, or is no-one taking any damage (ie, little red lines of pain) from any of these attacks? Also, Roy is such a bad-ass. A man amongst men.

AxeD, not to distract from the issues at hand, but I had to look at your avatar four times before I realized Spiderman wasn't 'taking advantage' of Elan there.

[Santiago]

Awwww snap it's on!

[Kareasint]

I guess the brawl's achieved fistfight caliber, but isn't quite knife fight caliber yet... :smallwink:

Has not stop Belkar in the past (SoD)

The cosmic balance in the universe has been tipped. Roy started the fight before Belkar.

[Blaznak]

Wheeeeeee!

[Jan Mattys]

Has not stop Belkar in the past (SoD)

The cosmic balance in the universe has been tipped. Roy started the fight before Belkar.

I think you meant OtOoPCs

[Ancalagon]

I wonder if its at all likely that the EoB will care who started the brawl?

It's possible that the combatants will all end up in jail- and Elan may have to persuade his dad to set Roy & Belkar free.

Of course not. There's an arrest coming up. Or the combatants will have to flee together after the fight vs. the Empresses' Blood Police.

[Mastikator]

I lol'd. And Mr. Scruffles has never been as awesome.

[Sebastian]

Who is more evil - Belkar or Mr. Scruffy?

YOU DECIDE AMERICA.

Mr. Scruffy is a cat.

'nuff said.

[Wanderer]

That may have been the most pitiful-looking eldritch blast I have ever seen.

[Skaven]

Roy is attacking the guards? Seems a very unlawful thing to do to me.

Oh well, he was never really portrayed as lawful at all.

[Random832]

Roy is attacking the guards? Seems a very unlawful thing to do to me.

Oh well, he was never really portrayed as lawful at all.

I dunno - adhering to genre conventions for their own sake seems pretty lawful to me. :smallbiggrin:

[Alagaesian]

I'm more concerned with who the bartender is than how much he's scared. He looks suspiciously...like Ian Starshine.

Also, on the last panel, Roy's noogying that guard... XD

[DabblerWizard]

Woot! Bar brawls!

[SPoD]

Roy is attacking the guards? Seems a very unlawful thing to do to me.

No, Roy is being attacked by the guards, and choosing not to let himself be beaten. They're the ones standing up angrily in panel #5 and walking towards him, not vice versa.

[Tundar]

Go go mr Scruffy!! :smallbiggrin:

And go go Roy. Throw some more half dragon around.

[Onyavar]

I'm more concerned with who the bartender is than how much he's scared. He looks suspiciously...like Ian Starshine.


Wooo! That would be quite a twist, wouldn't it? Cut his beard and tan his skin, and Ian is this barman.
Though - I believe Ian would act different here, not cowering behind his bar. And why the planes would he serve drinks in a bar at all?

[factotum]

And more to the point, why would he have not got word back to Haley that he was no longer imprisoned and she didn't need to keep finding the money?

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

Well then, maybe it's Haley's previously unmentioned Uncle Graham. :smallbiggrin:

[HandofShadows]

BAR FIGHT! I wonder who will be the last one standing..... Well other than Mr. Scruffy of course. :)

[suszterpatt]

Roy doesn't have his sword in panel 4.


I feel like such a dork now.

[banjo1985]

Nice. it's about time we had a proper bar-fight. :smallbiggrin:

Am I right in thinking this is the first one in 730 strips of OotS?

[2xMachina]

Now we've the problem of whether Belkar will stick his daggers in people even if it's just a brawl.

[Bavarian itP]

A soulknife and a monk sitting on the same table ... I expect their adventuring buddies truenamer and CW samurai to show up soon :smallwink:

[DrGonzo]

That's the low tier table.. Commoners, experts and warriors welcome too!!

[Cire II]

I love Belkar in the last panel. He doesn't seem like as big a maniac as usual, i.e. no big grin or drawn knives.
Great comic.:smallbiggrin:

[deuxhero]

Let's not do anything rash. Or cliched. Love it!

Nice to see some non-core stuff appear.

[hamishspence]

A soulknife and a monk sitting on the same table ... I expect their adventuring buddies truenamer and CW samurai to show up soon :smallwink:

Elan does ask Miko here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html

if she's taken levels in the old samurai class, the new one, or Master Samurai.

"The old samurai class" could be the Oriental Adventures one, and "the new one" could be CW samurai.

[FeanorFireHeart]

Bar Fight!
And as far as roy knows they are not cops but soldiers, or mercenaries that dress similar.

[ref]

Man, this is SO out of character for Mr. Scruffy! What's going on?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well...This could have interesting results. Love it.

[FeanorFireHeart]

Man, this is SO out of character for Mr. Scruffy! What's going on?

considering hes been just giving orders for as long as we known him until he joined the order, he is hanging out with the Belkster now.

[deuxhero]

A soulknife and a monk sitting on the same table ... I expect their adventuring buddies truenamer and CW samurai to show up soon :smallwink:

What are they doing in the bar? Interviewing a Soulborn?

Artwise I notice a few odd parts.

Roy's right "wrist" in panel one, and his right leg in 4 seem a little off to me. The bartender is darker skined in the last panel than he was in 729 while his hair is a seperate color (could just be lighting, but as that shadowdancer said, there are no shadows in the comic).

[Beelzebub1111]

A soul knife a warlock and a monk walk into brunch...

[rman]

I'm curious as to what sort of roll Roy got on his strength check to frickin' body slam a half-dragon ogre on to the table behind him. :smalleek:


Belt of Giant Strength.

[Optimystik]

I have a new favorite strip :smallamused:

"Complete Breakfast"
Roy body-slamming a half-dragon
A Warlock and a Soulknife in-strip
A Monk kicking ass

Rich, you made me cream my breeches.

[Katana_Geldar]

Nice. it's about time we had a proper bar-fight. :smallbiggrin:

Am I right in thinking this is the first one in 730 strips of OotS?

Unless you count the off-screen one that got Belkar arrested, then yes.

[John Cribati]

So it looks like we've got monks and warlocks representing. Awesome!

[Big Hungry Joe]

Good times. I like how the Warlock is still out there with his fork.

[Mando Knight]

(could just be lighting, but as that shadowdancer said, there are no shadows in the comic).

That was like 500 strips ago. Back then, Roy didn't even have a belt.

...no, wait, like five strips later she does.:smallwink:

[Drolyt]

Thanks for the new comic.

[Lateral]

w00t! Bar-FIGHT! Bar-FIGHT! Bar-FIGHT!

Roy and Belkar are like 13th level and melee-focused, they're going to kick ass in a bar brawl. Even if Roy can't use his magical greatsword.

Also, they're adventurers. Jail=no.

[Turalisj]

I guess the brawl's achieved fistfight caliber, but isn't quite knife fight caliber yet... :smallwink:

But isn't Belkar one to bring a knife to a fist-fight? (and gun fight, and sword fight, and spell fight.....)

[Shas aia Toriia]

Great comic, Giant. Keep up the great work!

[Samb]

"how you like me now Sparky!?"
"Complete Breakfest"
Awesome page. Soulknife love too this strip just gets better and better.

[Wou]

That warlocks aim is pretty terrible

[warmachine]

That is a smart cat and will clearly remain a good friend of Belkar for a long time.

[Kaiyanwang]

Yai Barfight! How can you run a campaign without?

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

But isn't Belkar one to bring a knife to a fist-fight? (and gun fight, and sword fight, and spell fight.....)

I suppose, derived of the chance to be a spectator, he's taken to the philosophy that the fight's no fun if it isn't long enough. Yet another way to toy with his enemies... that, or he's bored. :smallcool:

[warmachine]

That bar owner is in the wrong city. A fight breaks out and nobody even looks, let alone exits, until they or their friends are soiled. Fights must be very commonplace. Perhaps he could ask for a transfer to Star Trek and live a quieter life serving drinks in a Klingon bar.

[ArqArturo]

Half-Dragon Ogres! And Warlocks! And Spellknives! And Monks! Oh my XD.

What's next, Warmages? I sure hope so :D

[Surrealistik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8aEhtJ-sgg

[Timberboar]

But isn't Belkar one to bring a knife to a fist-fight? (and gun fight, and sword fight, and spell fight.....)

...and book club, and knitting circle, and peace conference, and dinner with the in-laws, and...

[Kumo]

Did anybody else here hear banjo/cowboy music playing in the background when the fight got started?


...and book club, and knitting circle, and peace conference, and dinner with the in-laws, and...

(that last one may be acceptable depending on the inlaws)

...and a birthday party, and a date, and World's Strongest Man competition, and breakfast for dinner, and a play, and a rock concert...

[sihnfahl]

dinner with the in-laws...
With Belkar's family issues, the knives come out at the greeting.
The cudgels are during dinner.

[NYYanks6083]

I'm curious as to what sort of roll Roy got on his strength check to frickin' body slam a half-dragon ogre on to the table behind him.

Was thinking the same thing. I mean he's a lv 10-13 Greatsword-wielding fighter, so it's not THAT unbelievable, but I mean, wow. He just tossed about 500 lbs of half-dragon :smallamused: someone's been eating his wheaties

[Kumo]

Was thinking the same thing. I mean he's a lv 10-13 Greatsword-wielding fighter, so it's not THAT unbelievable, but I mean, wow. He just tossed about 500 lbs of half-dragon :smallamused: someone's been eating his wheaties

Plus the belt of giant strength :smalltongue:

[Stmr5000]

If only there was a hexblade in there somewhere. This would be the coolest thing ever.

[slb]

Mr. Scruffy is a cat.
'nuff said.... and everybody knows cats are "Chaotic Evil" creatures :smallbiggrin:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

In the immortal words of Elwood Gutworthy of the Oakenshield clan:

"BARFIGHT!"

[Gitman00]

I wonder if a certain devil's prediction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html) is about to come to pass...

[Basooned]

The question is of course, is Belkar going to turn this brawl into a knife fight? xD

[Rogue 7]

And the man at the back said everyone attack and it turned into a barroom blitz!

[tahu88810]

Save for the warlock, everyone has a team-mate to back them up. Guard has Lizard-Guard, Monk has Soulknife, etc.

My bet is this fight ends when they all realize that the 'lock is an optimized glaivelock and the amount of cheese leaves them with no chance of victory.

[Solara]

So I'm confused, is Belkar jumping into things in the last panel or still just enjoying the spectacle?

...I really hope it's the latter, I seem to recall he (minor Origin spoilers) joined the OotS after being in prison for killing like ten guys in a barroom brawl meaning he might take this kind of thing just a little too seriously once he gets started, and I worry about Gannji and Sparky.

e: Okay looking again I'm convinced he is jumping in, just without his usual evil grin + daggers combo, which kind of threw me at first but is actually a really good sign.

Of course now I've got another worry. :smalleek: Wouldn't it be ironic for Belkar to get killed in a barfight someone else was taking too seriously, just like he did back then? Though I'm still hoping against hope that somehow the Giant is just messing with us with this whole 'Belkar is going to die' thing and has something unexpected planned...

[Kumo]

So I'm confused, is Belkar jumping into things in the last panel or still just enjoying the spectacle?

...I really hope it's the latter, I seem to recall he (minor Origin spoilers) joined the OotS after being in prison for killing like ten guys in a barroom brawl meaning he might take this kind of thing just a little too seriously once he gets started, and I worry about Gannji and Sparky.
Yeah but he IS still trying to trick Roy into thinking he's 'subscribing to his moral code' which Belkar knows includes the phrase 'i don't want you to kill anyone'

[The_Weirdo]

Scruffy had it right: It's not a barroom brawl until most people involved in it have nothing to do with the initial reason.

[the_tick_rules]

I'm surprised Belkar took so long to join in, but hey a good brawl is awesome for everyone.

[paddyfool]

What's going on with the fist of the lizardfolk hitting Roy (bottom right panel)? Is he holding something, or is it drawn that way to emphasise that it's a non-lethal attack?

[dgnslyr]

That Warlock's fork is starting to look awfully dangerous...

[Kumo]

What's going on with the fist of the lizardfolk hitting Roy (bottom right panel)? Is he holding something, or is it drawn that way to emphasise that it's a non-lethal attack?

It's a fist to the face >.> How much clearer could it be?

[Woodsman]

Hehe, Belkar wins (metaphorically) again.

Literally comes next.

[brionl]

So Belkar has been learning how to have feelings for others from Mr Scruffy. And Mr Scruffy has been learning how to be an instigator from Belkar. Everybody wins! :smallbiggrin:

[mucat]

That warlock's aim is pretty terrible

You're supposed to have terrible aim in a barroom brawl. How else are you going to get everyone in the whole place involved?

[Kumo]

You're supposed to have terrible aim in a barroom brawl. How else are you going to get everyone in the whole place involved?

Sigging. :smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

I wonder if a certain devil's prediction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html) is about to come to pass...

Er, what prediction? I didn't see one in that comic.

[hamishspence]

"Is it worth it to risk never being able to knife someone in a bar fight again?"

Not so much a prediction- as a encouragement to act- save Hinjo, get the Mark removed, and you'll be able to knife people in bar fights again.

[sabremeister]

And what will Durkon think when he comes down to find a bar fight going on that Roy started?

[hamishspence]

Technically, Gannji started the fight by shooting at Roy.

Though it could be said "Roy started the fight by continuing to ask questions", or "Roy started the fight by making a veiled threat" that's not really fair to Roy.

[Akal Saris]

Very cute comic. I loved the monk's innocent "But why would he fling them at you???" remark.

[dps]

Yeah but he IS still trying to trick Roy into thinking he's 'subscribing to his moral code' which Belkar knows includes the phrase 'i don't want you to kill anyone'

Which is why I think that it's possible that he's just hopping up on the bar for a better look.

[Bongos]

What is the lizardfolk guard hitting Roy with? And why is his right arm so much longer than his left?

[Lecan]

Technically, Gannji started the fight by shooting at Roy.

Though it could be said "Roy started the fight by continuing to ask questions", or "Roy started the fight by making a veiled threat" that's not really fair to Roy.

Technically, Tarquin started it when he fathered twins, one of who would eventually be mistaken for the other by a bounty hunter, causing Roy to come looking for the twin.

[hamishspence]

What is the lizardfolk guard hitting Roy with? And why is his right arm so much longer than his left?

His fist- check earlier pics of punches and you'll see the same round shape with lines for fingers. For example:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html


Technically, Tarquin started it when he fathered twins, one of who would eventually be mistaken for the other by a bounty hunter, causing Roy to come looking for the twin.

In practice though, if the guards drag Roy & Gannji before a magistrate and the magistrate's going to charge somebody with "instigating a disturbance" it will be one of those two.

I'd say Gannji should take the blame- for ordering Enor to fire the first shot.

[Zorn]

Yay, another great comic.

I find the guard in the headlock's expression rather amusing. He looks so calm. Maybe he's realized that that spike on his helmet is going to make noogying rather difficult (not that the helmet itself wouldn't impede Roy).


"Is it worth it to risk never being able to knife someone in a bar fight again?"

Not so much a prediction- as a encouragement to act- save Hinjo, get the Mark removed, and you'll be able to knife people in bar fights again.

True, but Belkar's response in 435 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html) is:

"No, I... I don't know that I could live like that."

Now obviously what Belkar meant to say was that he would find the inability to murder when he chose to be extremely distasteful. I think what Gitman00 was trying to say was that if you tilt your head and look at it just right Belkar is saying:

"I would die if I was ever in a bar fight but unable to knife someone."

As for whether I agree it may be a prediction, it does seem a bit too odd to be a coincidence that Belkar would enter a bar fight in this manner after mentioning it even in a DnD-based comic (I've never experienced it firsthand, but judging by Roy's "Or clichéd" comment I'm guessing bar fights are rather common for adventuring groups). Still, I'm having trouble seeing what significance Belkar dying here would have thematically.

So no, I don't think his time is up just yet, but, hey, I could be wrong. Regardless, nice catch Gitman00. I wouldn't have ever noticed that otherwise.

[DBear]

I'm more concerned with who the bartender is than how much he's scared. He looks suspiciously...like Ian Starshine.

Also, on the last panel, Roy's noogying that guard... XD

That can't be Ian. Ian's hair was going grey when Haley joined the thieves' guild and that was 7 years ago.

[gallagher]

Mr. ponytail is obviusly a monk :P
unarmed swordsage

[Beorn080]

Hmm, Belkar seems to feel that the addition of a Monk and a Soulknife brings it out of the small scuffle level.

I wonder where/who the Warlock's last blast went.

[Ave]

Mr. Scruffy totally did that on purpose. And now he's probably the only one in the room who the soulknife doesn't want to thrash.

Devious kitty.

You forgot her monk friend.

[Kish]

"No, I... I don't know that I could live like that."

Now obviously what Belkar meant to say was that he would find the inability to murder when he chose to be extremely distasteful. I think what Gitman00 was trying to say was that if you tilt your head and look at it just right Belkar is saying:

"I would die if I was ever in a bar fight but unable to knife someone."

But, no. He could be read to be saying, "I would die if I was never able to knife someone again in all the bar fights I'm in in my future," but not saying that he has to knife someone in every single bar fight. It points out that Belkar expects to be in a large number of bar fights in the future and that he looks forward to knifing people in them whenever he pleases, not that he has a quota to fill. :smalltongue:


As for whether I agree it may be a prediction, it does seem a bit too odd to be a coincidence that Belkar would enter a bar fight in this manner after mentioning it even in a DnD-based comic (I've never experienced it firsthand, but judging by Roy's "Or clichéd" comment I'm guessing bar fights are rather common for adventuring groups).

Very much so. The joke here is that adventurers+bar=brawl.

[Wonton]

When the lizardfolk punches Roy, the fist appears "backwards", because he swung it around in a wide arc from his right. The knuckles are pointing out of the screen, with his palm-side pointing back towards himself.

[St Fan]

I don't understand how anybody would think that Mr. Scruffy had tipped the bowl of maggots intentionaly. He's just an ordinary, curious cat coming to sniff the content of a bowl of food to see if it's edible, and accidentally tipped it over. Good timing with the starting brawl, but nothing unbelievable.

[Pamela]

And we now have confirmation that Complete Arcane is used in OOTS!


What? how about the Acid orbs, cold orb and fire orb that, Tsukiko uses against Haley? i belive that they are fro Complete Arcane, dont they?

About the comic, Yay Bar fight :D , it's about time we had a bar fight:smallsmile:

[Martok]

Ha! It's not often we get a (more-or-less) standalone strip like this anymore, but this was totally worth it. Classic OOTS humor at its finest! :smallbiggrin:

[Ceric]

Haha, bar fight. Had to happen someday.

[Teleporker]

BAAAAAAAR FIGHT!!!! Whohoooo!!!

I've been wanting to see one break out soooo badly for a while... It's one of those things I've never seen the order do (no I don't have the books, so feel free to correct me if this isn't the first one).

Now, if now only Belkar could set something on fire...

[cheezewizz2000]

Rich, thank you. That was at once hilarious and awesome. This is why I come back to OotS time and again.

[Froogleyboy]

Perhaps it's because I'm sleepy, or maybe someone else has already said it. but am I the only one who thinks that monk looks alot like Bor?

[suszterpatt]

I don't understand how anybody would think that Mr. Scruffy had tipped the bowl of maggots intentionaly. He's just an ordinary, curious cat coming to sniff the content of a bowl of food to see if it's edible, and accidentally tipped it over. Good timing with the starting brawl, but nothing unbelievable.Maybe because we've seen him follow Belkar's instructions before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html). It's all in a day's work fo an animal companion, methinks.

[Querzis]

I don't understand how anybody would think that Mr. Scruffy had tipped the bowl of maggots intentionaly. He's just an ordinary, curious cat coming to sniff the content of a bowl of food to see if it's edible, and accidentally tipped it over. Good timing with the starting brawl, but nothing unbelievable.

Ok you know nothing about cats. Or even worse, you think cats are innocent and gentle creatures which is even more crazy. You know I usually think labelling any creatures as «always» of one alignement is stupid, except for cats who are obviously always Chaotic Evil.

[denthor]

What class is the girl? Soulknife?

My guess is she is a druid the swords are the 2nd level spell flame blade.

[dsavereide]

I like Scruffy's ? ? Like he doesn't understand why Belkar hasn't jumped into the fray yet.

Or for those of you you give Scruffy a more active role, like he's saying, "Not big enough for you? How's this?"

[ekedolphin]

That's our :belkar:! Gotta love how he puts his entertainment needs first.

And add another lampshade hanging to OOTS's already-substantial collection, this one by :roy:-- "Let's not do anything hasty-- or clichéd."

[factotum]

My guess is she is a druid the swords are the 2nd level spell flame blade.

There are two of them. I'm reasonably sure you only get one with Flame Blade.

[Golden-Esque]

The Soulknife who got nuggets thrown at her is a nice touch! I think this is the first actual use of Psionics done in Order of the Stick (there was a mention a while back, but I don't think they'd made an actual appearance until now).

[hamishspence]

the Blue psion was only seen in flashback in the interrogation of O-chul, and The Little Psion that Could, was a story- this is the first time a psionic class has appeared in "real time" so to speak.

[Hithros]

Mr. Scruffy really added fuel to the fire....I didn't expect that, eh.

And Haley's bow flew off Roy's back to somewhere, now.

EDIT: Well, since the last strip, at least.

[chipelp3]

The body angle suggests that :belkar: is diving into the mayhem. But I had a thought that he could be diving at the bartender to make sure 'everyone" is involved - lol

:wink:

[WowWeird]

Technically, Tarquin started it when he fathered twins, one of who would eventually be mistaken for the other by a bounty hunter, causing Roy to come looking for the twin.

No, no, no- the GODS started it by having the gall to create sentient life.

And it becomes clearer that the Gods are to blame, as they don't stop the bar brawl as soon as it begins, and since they do have the power to end it, they MUST be in favor of it!

[Kumo]

Ok you know nothing about cats. Or even worse, you think cats are innocent and gentle creatures which is even more crazy. You know I usually think labelling any creatures as «always» of one alignement is stupid, except for cats who are obviously always Chaotic Evil.

i thought they were true neutral: they couldn't care less one way or another.

[Dr.Epic]

Liked the warlock joke. Also liked the move Roy pulled on Enor. It's the same one you use to beat Bowser in Super Mario 64 (I've been playing that game lately in case anyone was wondering where that obscure reference came from).

[Hrairoo]

Hmm, Belkar seems to feel that the addition of a Monk and a Soulknife brings it out of the small scuffle level.

I wonder where/who the Warlock's last blast went.

with the order's luck, it's probably durkon... :smallbiggrin:

Haha, i loved this strip! definitely worth the wait, mr giant! i especially liked the 'Complete Breakfast' joke, as if it were a sourcebook... definitely great to be mixing it up with so many exotic new classes thrown in the mix. can't wait to see where this all ends up...

[Kumo]

Liked the warlock joke. Also liked the move Roy pulled on Enor. It's the same one you use to beat Bowser in Super Mario 64 (I've been playing that game lately in case anyone was wondering where that obscure reference came from).

Not quite. In that game, you grab him by the tail, spin him around a bit, and throw him into a bomb. There was no spinning. Or bomb.

[Dr.Epic]

Not quite. In that game, you grab him by the tail, spin him around a bit, and throw him into a bomb. There was no spinning. Or bomb.

It's still the basic movie. I guy moving a large reptile by the tail.

[Doug Lampert]

i thought they were true neutral: they couldn't care less one way or another.

No. If they had Int 3+ the average cat would definitely be CE.

They ENJOY torturing small furry creatures, and do so at almost every opportunity. They tend to IGNORE people when they don't actively want something, but that's not because they couldn't care less one way or another, it's because we're too big to torture so they only care about us when they want something from us.

Not all cats are the same, but they're typically not nice, or even indiferent, creatures.

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

They ENJOY torturing small furry creatures, and do so at almost every opportunity. They tend to IGNORE people when they don't actively want something, but that's not because they couldn't care less one way or another, it's because we're too big to torture so they only care about us when they want something from us.

Well, their motivations can only be guessed at by the observer, hence baseline neutrality (I know, the boring answer). You can't really say they enjoy toying with captured critters, and sometimes, they just leave people alone once in a while.

Unless you're my sister-in-law's cat, who believes humans were put on this earth to pet her. I've taken to I'm-not-petting-you with that one. It's hilarious.

[hamishspence]

I think the "play with prey" bit was argued as a conflict between the fact that cats have a hunting instinct, and a killing instinct, but the killing instinct doesn't trigger in a well-fed domestic cat that isn't hungry.

Hence, it chases prey, but doesn't kill it when it has it.

[suszterpatt]

I think the "play with prey" bit was argued as a conflict between the fact that cats have a hunting instinct, and a killing instinct, but the killing instinct doesn't trigger in a well-fed domestic cat that isn't hungry.

Hence, it chases prey, but doesn't kill it when it has it.I heard that the playing around bit is because the fear raises the prey's blood sugar level and makes it tastier. Not sure if there's anything to that though, but if there is...

[Yucca]

I heard that the playing around bit is because the fear raises the prey's blood sugar level and makes it tastier. Not sure if there's anything to that though, but if there is...

It has to do with the fact that a rat or a large mouse can actually do some real damage to a cat. So a cat who isn't absolutely starving will try to tire out the prey first, so when it moves in to make the killing bite with its mouth it exposes itself to less danger.

Back on topic. Roy's sword disappears in panel 4, and this comic is the best in a long time.

[St Fan]

Maybe because we've seen him follow Belkar's instructions before (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html). It's all in a day's work fo an animal companion, methinks.

Maybe, but what does it have to do with the current strip? Where did Belkar give the slightest instruction to his cat? All he was doing was idly commenting about the brawl and that he enjoyed watching it as much as he would participating.

[Querzis]

I think the "play with prey" bit was argued as a conflict between the fact that cats have a hunting instinct, and a killing instinct, but the killing instinct doesn't trigger in a well-fed domestic cat that isn't hungry.

Hence, it chases prey, but doesn't kill it when it has it.

That could work if not for the simple fact that dogs dont do that. If a dog hunt something its either gonna kill it fast or leave it alone. Not to mention the fact that most of the time, cats do kill them so how can you say they dont have killing instinct? Its just that they only kill them after torturing them for a while!


It has to do with the fact that a rat or a large mouse can actually do some real damage to a cat. So a cat who isn't absolutely starving will try to tire out the prey first, so when it moves in to make the killing bite with its mouth it exposes itself to less danger.

Yeah and once again that could work if not for the very simple fact that other animals who also eat rats and mouse dont do that. And cats dont especially have more stamina then rats and mouse anyway, they arent tired when the cats finally kill them, its just that they have just been tortured for an hour.

By the way, you might need to read this if you think «well at least they are gentle with us» http://www.cracked.com/article/226_6-adorable-cat-behaviors-with-shockingly-evil-explanations/

Absolutely every study scientist make about cats behavior always just basically says: those things are freaking evil!

[hamishspence]

That could work if not for the simple fact that dogs dont do that. If a dog hunt something its either gonna kill it fast or leave it alone. Not to mention the fact that most of the time, cats do kill them so how can you say they dont have killing instinct? Its just that they only kill them after torturing them for a while!


Cats aren't dogs- the interaction between the different instincts is not the same.

They have killing instinct- but the "kill behaviour" only kicks in when they are hungry.

Its like dogs worrying sheep- the dog isn't hungry, but it may chase, attack, and badly injure, the sheep anyway, if it's not a trained sheepdog.

Same principle applies.

[St Fan]

Absolutely every study scientist make about cats behavior always just basically says: those things are freaking evil!

Cats are perfect, divine creatures, totally above such petty mortal conceptions such as "good" or "evil".

[Querzis]

Cats aren't dogs- the interaction between the different instincts is not the same.

They have killing instinct- but the "kill behaviour" only kicks in when they are hungry.

Yes so they arent hungry for the first hour they torture the critters but after torturing it for so long they get hungry so they kill it and go away without eating the critters despite the fact that they know perfectly well they can eat those things, make perfect sense to me.

Also drop the idea that cats got only 2 int, those guys are pretty smart, humans gotta stop underestimating the intelligence of other animals. We havent achieved everything we did because we were the smartest animal, there were lots of others different factors then our intelligence. Some people argue that our hands with opposable thumbs (http://www.oandplibrary.org/al/1955_02_004.asp) had a lot more to do with it then our intelligence ever will (http://www.bodylanguageuniversity.com/public/224.cfm) and I'm definitly one of them, our hands are much more impressives, unique and awesome then our brains will ever be. But yeah I'm getting away from the topic here.

[sevenseas]

There's a man at the back who's ready to crack as he raises his hands to the sky, and the girl in the corner let no one ignore her she can kill you with a wink of her eye.....

ballroom blitz, ballroom blitz. so was belkar going to attack... or just a better view?

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

ballroom blitz, ballroom blitz. so was belkar going to attack... or just a better view?

Ah, so you propose tipping the bowl was merely clearing the countertop for seating? :smallwink:

[Teleporker]

No, no, no- the GODS started it by having the gall to create sentient life.

And it becomes clearer that the Gods are to blame, as they don't stop the bar brawl as soon as it begins, and since they do have the power to end it, they MUST be in favor of it!

Nope. It all started beyond the fourth wall, when someone decided to make a webcomic about stick figures. He's the one making them fight!

And by the way, he shouldn't make them stop yet! This is fun!

[Darthteej]

The empire of blood seems like it has a fairly diverse set of adventurers, all Cliffport had was fighters, sorcerers/wizards, and rouges.

[Kurien]

This likely was already mentioned, but I hope the Giant will correct the minor error I noticed between panel four and five, in which Roy lacks his sword in panel four and suddenly has it in panel five...

Another minor nitpick: looking at the previous strip, the soulknife and monk were not sitting at the table in the right direction at which Mr Scruffy flung the contents of the bowl. in 729 (last two panels), they are approximately behind Belkar, while in 730 the maggots flew to Belkar's left (in the direction Belkar was facing in 729 it would have been his right).

[Tobimaro]

To the man in panel 9: Because it's fun! :smallbiggrin:

And we see that Mr. Scuffy is useful in this circumstance. He is providing Belkar his reason to join in this "brunchroom brawl".

[bkbirge]

Y'all might like this...

http://blogs.chron.com/animalqa/2010/06/why_does_my_cat_bring_me_dead.html

[deathali'helper]

Rick made a mistake. There is one panel where Roy is missing his sword, i wont tell you wich one.:smallwink::smallamused:

[Saphy]

Mmm, can't say the bar/brunchroom fight wasn't expected, but it was amusing anyway. :) Didn't get the first panel at first--had to look back at the previous comic.

Also, <3<3<3 Mr. Scruffy. ^_^

[Almaseti]

Weird, it almost seems like Mr. Scruffy has an agenda of some kind.

[DrivinAllNight]

Now was the cat chaotic when it was with the Paladins? Or is Belkar just that good of an influence on it? Either way, loved Scruffy :smallbiggrin:

[Ultimate Dragon]

I dunno - adhering to genre conventions for their own sake seems pretty lawful to me. :smallbiggrin:

Elan. One word argument.

[dsavereide]

Cat's don't intentionally torture, they don't even understand what that means. My cats "torture" their catnip mice. They'll sneak up and pounce on a toy that hasn't moved in weeks. It's called play. My dog will take a stuffed toy and holding it high, shake her head back and forth vigorously. Now if that were a small animal, she would have broken it's neck. But she doesn't know that. Dogs playing tug of war are cooperating in tearing a animal to shreds. In the wild, they may start this part before the beast is dead. Well fed domestic animals can't understand these instincts. But they still enjoy the hunt.

I think cats play with their food more than dogs because a) cats are more likely to be solitary hunters, so less danger of the meal being stolen and b) the prey has less of a chance to escape a cat.

[SoC175]

I guess the brawl's achieved fistfight caliber, but isn't quite knife fight caliber yet... :smallwink:
OotPCs:
Belkar: Not my fault the brought fists to a knife fight!
Guard: IT WASN'T A KNIFE FIGHT UNTIL YOU STARTED STABBING PEOPLE!!!

[cc_kizz]

As has been mentioned, I do appreciate the fact that the bowl of unknown curly things were identified as maggots after the debate about what they were in the previous comic's thread. Now my only question: Were those maggots alive?

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

OotPCs:
Belkar: Not my fault the brought fists to a knife fight!
Guard: IT WASN'T A KNIFE FIGHT UNTIL YOU STARTED STABBING PEOPLE!!!
There you go. It'll be a knife fight when he's good and ready. :smallwink:

[elonin]

That is some restraint that Belkar has shown. I'd normally guess that Belkar was the one to have caused the fight, even if he didn't this time.

[hamishspence]

There you go. It'll be a knife fight when he's good and ready. :smallwink:

Given that Eldritch Blasts (and dragon lightning breaths) typically do more damage than guns in the DMG do- aren't Roy and the guards "bringing fists to a gunfight"?

The soulknife has already pulled out her "knives".

[Kish]

What? how about the Acid orbs, cold orb and fire orb that, Tsukiko uses against Haley? i belive that they are fro Complete Arcane, dont they?
Complete Arcane has Orb of Electricity, Orb of Fire, and so on spells which are conjurations.

Tome and Blood has Electric Orb, Fire Orb, and so on spells which are evocations.

Tsukiko says she looked up non-core evocations, then casts spells with the element name first and the word "orb" second. I consider that pretty conclusive for which of the two non-core sources Tsukiko meant, though, in fairness, I'll note that some others disagree, citing the fact that Tome and Blood is a 3.0ed source rather than a 3.5ed one.

[sol-decentguy]

Ok two fighters walk into a bar :roy: :belkar:.....and this comic strip is what happened. Aah yes diplomacy at its greatest. Great strip! :smallbiggrin:
I know its against his nature but I wonder if some incident is going to make Durkon jump in?

[suszterpatt]

Ok two fighters walk into a bar :roy: :belkar:.....and this comic strip is what happened. Aah yes diplomacy at its greatest. Great strip! :smallbiggrin:
I know its against his nature but I wonder if some incident is going to make Durkon jump in?The only involvement I can imagine from Durkon is casting Hold Person on everyone and telling them to simmer down.

[plasma ball]

this is one epic bar fight. a fighter, monk, fire sword-wealding chic, a lizardman, warlock, half dragon thingy, and two guards. Anyone I missed?

this made me laugh out loud.:smallbiggrin:

[suszterpatt]

this is one epic bar fight. a fighter, monk, fire sword-wealding chic, a lizardman, warlock, half dragon thingy, and two guards. Anyone I missed?

this made me laugh out loud.:smallbiggrin:You missed the Ranger/Barbarian and his fierce domestic animal companion. :)

[Smiling Knight]

I love how apparently the Monk and the Soulknife are a team. Poor fools.

[Castamir]

the Blue psion was only seen in flashback in the interrogation of O-chul, and The Little Psion that Could, was a story- this is the first time a psionic class has appeared in "real time" so to speak.
Toss inthe recruitment scene in the Origins and strip 546 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html).

[Scarlet Knight]

No, Roy is being attacked by the guards, and choosing not to let himself be beaten. They're the ones standing up angrily in panel #5 and walking towards him, not vice versa.

"Come see the violence inherent in the system!"

[Pamela]

She is Soulknife or a Druid if fire swords?:smallconfused:

i think she is a Soulknife...:smallwink:

what you guys think about it?

[hamishspence]

Toss inthe recruitment scene in the Origins and strip 546 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html).


The recruitment scene didn't show for certain that the psion was a psion, since he manifested no powers (though he matched the standard D&D depiction).

And I've already mentioned 546- the flashback scene.

[Kumo]

OotPCs:
Belkar: Not my fault the brought fists to a knife fight!
Guard: IT WASN'T A KNIFE FIGHT UNTIL YOU STARTED STABBING PEOPLE!!!

You're supposed to put what it's spoiling (OtooPCs) above the spoiler, not inside >.>

[Kumo]

The recruitment scene didn't show for certain that the psion was a psion, since he manifested no powers (though he matched the standard D&D depiction).

And I've already mentioned 546- the flashback scene.

Seriously? that's the same psion from 'the little psion that could'

About that scene: Was the psion saying no or was roy saying no? the speech bubble didn't have an arrow but neither did the one from the other time that psion showed up

[hamishspence]

But we didn't know that back then.

Seeing a clearly psionic class actually interacting with members of the order in the main strip, rather than the prequels, is new.

[FlawedParadigm]

Originally Posted by The Vanishing Hitchhiker
I guess the brawl's achieved fistfight caliber, but isn't quite knife fight caliber yet...

Let me know when it achieves Soul Calibur.

-Flees!-

[AtomicKitKat]

Isn't the final panel like a tribute to that poster/picture with the fighting in the tavern shortly before they killed off 3.5?

[EyethatBinds]

Nice work putting the punchline in the fifth panel and then simply extending the comic from there. Really helps hammer home the joke.

Also the bartender seems to have lost his pigment to match the background. Coloring mistake or him using some kind of chameleon ability?

[Kumo]

Nice work putting the punchline in the fifth panel and then simply extending the comic from there. Really helps hammer home the joke.

Also the bartender seems to have lost his pigment to match the background. Coloring mistake or him using some kind of chameleon ability?

Look closer, his skin is a bit lighter.


But we didn't know that back then.

Seeing a clearly psionic class actually interacting with members of the order in the main strip, rather than the prequels, is new.

... what post are you responding to?

[LuPuWei]

Is it possible that Mr Scruffy actually IS Shojo? They tried to resurrect Shojo and failed- maybe that's not because he's in heaven, but because his soul got channeled into the cat or something...

[Kish]

Is it possible that Mr Scruffy actually IS Shojo? They tried to resurrect Shojo and failed- maybe that's not because he's in heaven, but because his soul got channeled into the cat or something...
Impossible? No.

Real unlikely? Yes.

Supported by anything in the most recent comic? No, Mr. Scruffy's action is more likely for "Belkar's animal companion" than for, "Shojo the cat."

[EvilElf]

Is it possible that Mr Scruffy actually IS Shojo? They tried to resurrect Shojo and failed- maybe that's not because he's in heaven, but because his soul got channeled into the cat or something...
So we have a high level cat now? I like where this is going.

[Pamela]

Is it possible that Mr Scruffy actually IS Shojo? They tried to resurrect Shojo and failed- maybe that's not because he's in heaven, but because his soul got channeled into the cat or something...

He is from a Japan like place isan't he?

maybe he went to a reincarnation process or something like that....:smallbiggrin:

[sol-decentguy]

He is from a Japan like place isan't he?

maybe he went to a reincarnation process or something like that....:smallbiggrin:
I think of Mr.Stuffy as the agent of chaotic good that is guiding the order to their ultimate goal, either that or he is actually a cat that just happens to be in the right place at the right time. Btw there is no Japan in this story just people who are very culturally similar:smalltongue:
Aaah cat shenanigans aren't they great?

[Darthteej]

He is from a Japan like place isan't he?

maybe he went to a reincarnation process or something like that....:smallbiggrin:

Southern religion is very western, even if their appearance is not.

[Kumo]

He is from a Japan like place isan't he?

maybe he went to a reincarnation process or something like that....:smallbiggrin:

The cat was born WAY before shojo died :smallannoyed:

[Sharpe]

I've almost joined this forum several times over the last, what... well however many years it's been going. But, I never did.

Just wanted to join and say that I like the way this strip is going with the high-level badassery.

Keep up the good work!

[Pamela]

The cat was born WAY before shojo died :smallannoyed:

Thats what he wants you to believe... xD

no, seriously now, I forgot this "detail"...:smallredface:

[plasma ball]

You missed the Ranger/Barbarian and his fierce domestic animal companion. :)

right! and the barman, although he is just hiding.

[plasma ball]

But we didn't know that back then.

Seeing a clearly psionic class actually interacting with members of the order in the main strip, rather than the prequels, is new.

who in the world is the psionic in the fight???! I can't see anyone who might be it, unless it's the chick with the flaming swords.

[Pamela]

who in the world is the psionic in the fight???! I can't see anyone who might be it, unless it's the chick with the flaming swords.

see now??????????????

thats what im talking about:smallfurious:

eat that "color dont Have influence on the understanding of history" we can't tell if is fire or psychic energy, can we?:smallannoyed:

i think i win:smallmad:

[JohnnyTurbo]

A soulknife and a monk sitting on the same table ... I expect their adventuring buddies truenamer and CW samurai to show up soon :smallwink:

Uh... I don't get it.

[Knaight]

Soulknives and Monks are the mechanically pathetic classes. Truenamer and CW Samurai join them. They are distinguished by being worse than a fighter.

[JohnnyTurbo]

Soulknives and Monks are the mechanically pathetic classes. Truenamer and CW Samurai join them. They are distinguished by being worse than a fighter.
Oh, I see. It was the monk what was puzzling me. Never had experiences with them, but I always thought them to be a solid strong class, with their damaging unarmed strikes, their improved movement and three good saves.

[Thoughtbot360]

Mr. Scruffy is now smarter than the average human child.

really? Throwing food at bystanders? Because, I'm pretty sure that children can both conceive of and pull off doing that at as young an age as seven months old.

[Raging Gene Ray]

really? Throwing food at bystanders? Because, I'm pretty sure that children can both conceive of and pull off doing that at as young an age as seven months old.

I think they're referring to throwing food at bystanders with the intent of causing a fight to escalate as opposed to wanting to see it splatter.

Mr. Scruffy also seemed to see and react to the scrying sensor earlier. This seems to imply knowledge of what a scrying sensor is, and a human-like level of intelligence with a background in arcana. Perhaps he is subtly setting in motion a series of events that appear to the untrained eye as a way to cause a bit of the ol' ultraviolence, but are, in reality, intended to lead to the noble end of erasing the Snarl and the Gods' arguments from existence and ushering a new Golden Age for the entire Multiverse!

[factotum]

Oh, I see. It was the monk what was puzzling me. Never had experiences with them, but I always thought them to be a solid strong class, with their damaging unarmed strikes, their improved movement and three good saves.

I believe monks are known for their ability to survive almost anything, with their massive saves and various class skills. Unfortunately, they can't actually do much in the way of damage themselves, which is why they're usually considered a subpar class--you don't get very far in a D&D fight if you're not capable of killing or incapacitating the opposition!

[hamishspence]

... what post are you responding to?

The one immediately above my post- which had made a reference to the Blue- which I'd already mentioned earlier as being a flashback scene.

In Origin, when we saw the guy in tatoos with the crystals on his staff, we had no proof as to what he was. Yes- psions are the normal people in that get up- but he could have been just an unusually barbaric wizard.

When we see The Little Psion that Could- his tatoos match that of the Origin figure- raising the possibility that the guy in Origin is the Little Psion that Could, all grown up. But we didn't know that at the time Origin came out.

The scene with the Blue, was a flashback scene, rather than one taking place in "real time"

The soulknife is the first character we've seen activate a psionic effect (those mindblades) in the same scene as members of the Order are in.

[JoseB]

eat that "color dont Have influence on the understanding of history" we can't tell if is fire or psychic energy, can we?:smallannoyed:


:smallsigh: Whether it is fire or psychic energy has precisely zero relevance to the story as it is being told right now.

You have a woman who is using some kind of mystical power to generate a pair of red sword-like energy things and get in the barroom brawl. Whether it is a psionic power or some kind of arcane power is irrelevant to the story as it stands.

If the woman in question were to become something more than a bit player in the free-for-all being Charlie-Foxtrotted right now, then we could get some exposition about what her capabilities are. Until then, those capabilities are irrelevant, unimportant, and completely unnecessary for understanding the story at this point in time.

In other words, no, you don't win :smallwink: :smallwink:

[suszterpatt]

I think they're referring to throwing food at bystanders with the intent of causing a fight to escalate as opposed to wanting to see it splatter.

Mr. Scruffy also seemed to see and react to the scrying sensor earlier. This seems to imply knowledge of what a scrying sensor is, and a human-like level of intelligence with a background in arcana. Perhaps he is subtly setting in motion a series of events that appear to the untrained eye as a way to cause a bit of the ol' ultraviolence, but are, in reality, intended to lead to the noble end of erasing the Snarl and the Gods' arguments from existence and ushering a new Golden Age for the entire Multiverse!Oh, I know, I know! Miko's soul inhabitated Mr. Scruffy and now she's pretending to be Belkar's animal companion and she'll get Belkar killed and get her revenge that way!

[Kumo]

The one immediately above my post- which had made a reference to the Blue- which I'd already mentioned earlier as being a flashback scene.

The Blue?


In Origin, when we saw the guy in tatoos with the crystals on his staff, we had no proof as to what he was. Yes- psions are the normal people in that get up- but he could have been just an unusually barbaric wizard.

:smallannoyed: A barbaric wizard. seriously?

You said he matched the depiction of DnD psions. In origins the guy either said he statement mentally or was outright rejected by Roy, and since he accepts Vaarsuvius later there is little chance of him being a wizard.


The soulknife is the first character we've seen activate a psionic effect (those mindblades) in the same scene as members of the Order are in.

Your point being?

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

Mr. Scruffy also seemed to see and react to the scrying sensor earlier. This seems to imply knowledge of what a scrying sensor is, and a human-like level of intelligence with a background in arcana. Perhaps he is subtly setting in motion a series of events that appear to the untrained eye as a way to cause a bit of the ol' ultraviolence, but are, in reality, intended to lead to the noble end of erasing the Snarl and the Gods' arguments from existence and ushering a new Golden Age for the entire Multiverse!

On the other hand, cats stare at nothingness and then dash off like madmen quite often. It could also be that he didn't see anything at all and was just being a cat.

[Saphy]

Can someone explain what a soulknife is? and this whole psionic thing? I don't play DnD. One of the few, I suppose. :smalltongue:

[Kumo]

Can someone explain what a soulknife is? and this whole psionic thing? I don't play DnD. One of the few, I suppose. :smalltongue:

A psion is basically a psychic: someone who uses pure force of mind to impose their will instead of arcane power. Soulknifes fight by making weapons from that mental energy.

[derfenrirwolv]

Mr scruffy has been running an entire nation for years. While experience has made me wonder if we wouldn't be better off with a small child in that regard, doing it usually indicates a bit of intelligent intent.



Oh, I see. It was the monk what was puzzling me. Never had experiences with them, but I always thought them to be a solid strong class, with their damaging unarmed strikes, their improved movement and three good saves.

There's 2 big problems with the monk. 1) Is that their main assets are flurry of blows and their mobility. Flurry of blows requires that they stand still.


2) Is with their magic items. As fighters progress they pick up +'s to their attack and damage rolls through magic items MUCH more easily (and cheaply) than the monk. The flurry can make up for the bab, and the wisdom to ac can make up for the lack of plate mail, but not the lack of magic plate mail. The flurry of blows can make up for the base attack bonus, but not the fighters Shocking Flaming bursting +3 scimitar.

[St Fan]

2) Is with their magic items. As fighters progress they pick up +'s to their attack and damage rolls through magic items MUCH more easily (and cheaply) than the monk. The flurry can make up for the bab, and the wisdom to ac can make up for the lack of plate mail, but not the lack of magic plate mail. The flurry of blows can make up for the base attack bonus, but not the fighters Shocking Flaming bursting +3 scimitar.

It seems that magic-low campaigns really never were all the rage, huh?

When I was a DM, my players were so much starved for magical items that they'd get into a brawl just for one little ring with a bit of suspicious dweomer...

Seriously, the true power of a class should be measured by their efficiency without external magic, not with it.

[hamishspence]

:smallannoyed: A barbaric wizard. seriously?

A wizard (or maybe sorcerer) from an extremely "barbaric" culture could have had tattoos- and even crystals. There was nothing to identify him as a psion, other than looking like stereotyped psions.


You said he matched the depiction of DnD psions. In origins the guy either said he statement mentally or was outright rejected by Roy, and since he accepts Vaarsuvius later there is little chance of him being a wizard.


Actually, in Origins, until Haley, those prospective characters mostly reject Roy - Roy does not do much rejecting.

Though the probably psionic guy's speech bubble: "No" does not lead to his mouth- which may imply that he was telepathic- supporting any guesses that he was a psion.

However- we couldn't know for certain unless he did something psionic- telepathic speech can be done by wizards or sorcerers with the right spells.

The blue (in a flashback) and the Little Psion that Could (a story character) were the first characters in the online strip to be unambiguously identified as psionic- but the soulknife was the first unambiguously psionic character to interact directly with Order members, in the main strip in a scene that was not a flashback scene.

That said, this isn't really important- it's simply me emphasizing that I see the soulknife scene as slightly more than a "one strip joke"- but as evidence that psionics can appear in the strip as part of the main world rather than as just a joke scene- maybe there are nations with lots of psionic characters.

[capfang]

I think this strip is my favorite out of all of the ones seen so far just because of Mr. Scruffy. :smallbiggrin:

[ThreadKiller]

The last panel has so much win! Thanks for the comic! :smallbiggrin:

[Turalisj]

Somewhere, Rich Baker is sitting back and reading the speculation about the psion and laughing.

[Mabus]

Clearly that warlock has a low Dex. (Think I'll stay out of his way. :smalleek: )

What we need now is for a raptoran, an illumian, and a goliath to show up.

[Saphy]

A psion is basically a psychic: someone who uses pure force of mind to impose their will instead of arcane power. Soulknifes fight by making weapons from that mental energy.

Interesting. Thanks. :smallredface:

[factotum]

Seriously, the true power of a class should be measured by their efficiency without external magic, not with it.

Are you also going to say that the true power of a class should require them not to wear any armour and carry no weapon? Because neither of those things are intrinsic to their class power. Under those rules of course the monk does well, but fighters and rogues get the short end of the stick...the one they'd be having to fight with! :smalltongue:

[Kish]

It seems that magic-low campaigns really never were all the rage, huh?

When I was a DM, my players were so much starved for magical items that they'd get into a brawl just for one little ring with a bit of suspicious dweomer...

Seriously, the true power of a class should be measured by their efficiency without external magic, not with it.
factotum's right. D&D's balance isn't exactly good, but it's not even aimed at "naked"; it's aimed at the wealth by level guidelines.

[suszterpatt]

Seriously, the true power of a class should be measured by their efficiency without external magic, not with it.
:xykon: Hey, as long as you can't lose it by blowing two will saves...

[Doug Lampert]

Mr scruffy has been running an entire nation for years. While experience has made me wonder if we wouldn't be better off with a small child in that regard, doing it usually indicates a bit of intelligent intent.




There's 2 big problems with the monk. 1) Is that their main assets are flurry of blows and their mobility. Flurry of blows requires that they stand still.


2) Is with their magic items. As fighters progress they pick up +'s to their attack and damage rolls through magic items MUCH more easily (and cheaply) than the monk. The flurry can make up for the bab, and the wisdom to ac can make up for the lack of plate mail, but not the lack of magic plate mail. The flurry of blows can make up for the base attack bonus, but not the fighters Shocking Flaming bursting +3 scimitar.

3) To do damage equal to a two handed-weapon fighter they need high strength, to have an AC that's only somewhat worse than the fighter they need high Dex and Wis, to survive melee (and ALL their attack powers are melee) they need high Con. So they can dump Int and have no skill points and Cha, and they STILL won't have high enough abilities.

4) No matter what they do they're still a 3/4 BAB class built for melee that does lots less damage than a rogue.

Look at OtOoPCs and the scene with a monk where Belkar sends him away in tears by pointing out that even WITH all his boosts as a monk he'd STILL do more damage if he picked up a non-proficient greatsword and have a higher AC if he put on some real armor.

But the real problem is that lots of attacks (that miss and that require you to stand still and not use all that mobility) and big "weapon" damage dice don't really matter compared to static bonuses to damage and a higher attack bonus.

Thog Power Attacks for 1d12+567 damage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html) just wins over 2d20 damage at level 20.

[Kumo]

A wizard (or maybe sorcerer) from an extremely "barbaric" culture could have had tattoos- and even crystals. There was nothing to identify him as a psion, other than looking like stereotyped psions.Look, however much you might wish otherwise, this is a PARODY comic strip. Stereotypes are half of a parody, the other half being poking fun at stuff that makes little sense in the parodied work.




Actually, in Origins, until Haley, those prospective characters mostly reject Roy - Roy does not do much rejecting.

I know. I thought it was either that he was a psion or Roy rejected him despite his extreme need for more members of his order.

I have read origins.


Though the probably psionic guy's speech bubble: "No" does not lead to his mouth- which may imply that he was telepathic- supporting any guesses that he was a psion.

However- we couldn't know for certain unless he did something psionic- telepathic speech can be done by wizards or sorcerers with the right spells.:smallannoyed: Sending takes ten minutes to cast without a scroll/wand. Would that, to them, be easier or more efficient than just saying 'no'?


The blue (in a flashback) and the Little Psion that Could (a story character) were the first characters in the online strip to be unambiguously identified as psionic- but the soulknife was the first unambiguously psionic character to interact directly with Order members, in the main strip in a scene that was not a flashback scene.

That said, this isn't really important- it's simply me emphasizing that I see the soulknife scene as slightly more than a "one strip joke"- but as evidence that psionics can appear in the strip as part of the main world rather than as just a joke scene- maybe there are nations with lots of psionic characters.

I don't see why you would assume they couldn't :smallconfused:

[Komitadji]

You know, ever since Belkar's vision back in Greysky City, he's threatened to become my favourite character. He may officially have earned that position now.

[Kumo]

You know, ever since Belkar's vision back in Greysky City, he's threatened to become my favourite character. He may officially have earned that position now.

My fav is a tie between Belkar and Redcloak. (the latter after this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html) line comic )

[LuPuWei]

So we have a high level cat now? I like where this is going.

A cat that's a 14th level aristocrat... An Aristocat!

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

I've heard some Dashing Swordsmen try to sing,
But a cat's the only cat that knows how to swing.

[cc_kizz]

I've heard some Dashing Swordsmen try to sing,
But a cat's the only cat that knows how to swing.

Awesomeness.