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View Full Version : IS there a melee class like this?



Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 08:02 AM
Ok so I'm thinking about making a new class Called Blood Knight or Blood Warrior, where they deal damage to themselves to in turn deal extra damage to others, and when they deal damage to others with their weapon they hurt themselves with they will heal them selves a small fraction of the damage they did, and also there'll be some special abilities that they'll get to choose when they hurt themselves.

Is there a class similar to this?
I know there is blood magus but i mean a melee class.

Morph Bark
2010-06-25, 08:04 AM
Not officially for as far as I know. On the gleemax forums there was a guy who made a Final Fantasy-inspired "Limit Break" system that depended on how much damage your character would take though. The more damage you took, the more powerful attacks you could use. I also made a class (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19524510/The_Limit_Dragoon_PEACH) that used that same system (link to the original system is in the first post).

Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 08:06 AM
Not officially for as far as I know. On the gleemax forums there was a guy who made a Final Fantasy-inspired "Limit Break" system that depended on how much damage your character would take though. The more damage you took, the more powerful attacks you could use. I also made a class (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19524510/The_Limit_Dragoon_PEACH) that used that same system (link to the original system is in the first post).

Cool beans, Nothing strikingly similar thanks man :smallcool:

hamishspence
2010-06-25, 08:17 AM
Tainted warrior in Unearthed Arcana- do they get the ability to injure themselves in order to trigger powerful effects, the way Tainted Scholar (in Heroes of Horror) does?

Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 08:18 AM
Tainted warrior in Unearthed Arcana- do they get the ability to injure themselves in order to trigger powerful effects, the way Tainted Scholar (in Heroes of Horror) does?

3.5 right?
That is quite similar to what i want to do

Morph Bark
2010-06-25, 08:18 AM
Cool beans, Nothing strikingly similar thanks man :smallcool:

Your welcome. If you happen to go with my Limit Dragoon if you're allowed by the DM, send me a PM here at GitP to tell me how it goes. :smallwink: Always could use some extra play-test data to tweak the class a wee bit.

hamishspence
2010-06-25, 08:20 AM
3.5 right?
That is quite similar to what i want to do

I'd probably suggest look at the Tainted Scholar & the Tainted Warrior, and draw ideas from both, while eliminating the cheese of the Tainted Scholar.

Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 08:26 AM
Your welcome. If you happen to go with my Limit Dragoon if you're allowed by the DM, send me a PM here at GitP to tell me how it goes. :smallwink: Always could use some extra play-test data to tweak the class a wee bit.

I am the DM :D
But yeah when I finish it up I definitely will. :smile:


I'd probably suggest look at the Tainted Scholar & the Tainted Warrior, and draw ideas from both, while eliminating the cheese of the Tainted Scholar.

I will check them out, thank you for the suggestions

Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 08:32 AM
I'll also post a new tread with this class in it so look out for that

J.Gellert
2010-06-25, 08:36 AM
I think there is a spell in the Book of Vile Darkness that can do that, but you have to be a cleric then.

Greenish
2010-06-25, 08:37 AM
Duskblade - Blades of Blood & Vampiric Touch.

true_shinken
2010-06-25, 08:44 AM
Duskblade - Blades of Blood & Vampiric Touch.

This. Add Sadism for laughs. A Duskblade/Assassin would he hilarious.

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-25, 08:54 AM
Huh. Amusingly enough, I’m going to suggest that you also take a good strong look at the Crusader and consider doing just a little refluffing.

Furious Counterstrike allows you to do more damage and hit more accurately depending on the damage you’ve taken since last turn. A number of maneuvers allow you to heal yourself or others as you do damage (including some stances), and I believe the Divine Surge line of Maneuvers allows you to do enormous damage at the cost of significant damage to yourself.

With a little refluffing, there’s your bloodknight, if you don’t want to go through too much effort. I can imagine an evil or neutral or just anti-hero-esque good crusader being blood oriented.

true_shinken
2010-06-25, 09:01 AM
Huh. Amusingly enough, I’m going to suggest that you also take a good strong look at the Crusader and consider doing just a little refluffing.

There is even Finishing Move - damage increases as you drop in HP.

Ranos
2010-06-25, 09:03 AM
A paladin with divine sacrifice ? A psychic warrior with overchannel ?


snip

Oh. That actually works incredibly well. This is the fluff for my next Crusader.

Dracons
2010-06-25, 09:03 AM
Enemies and Allies had a weapon ability called Wrathful Healing. +3 bonus. When it deals damage you heal a number of HP equal to half the damage dealt. if already full on HP, has no effect on healing.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-25, 09:04 AM
Crusaders are the ultimate masochists, but they don't inflict the damage on themselves...unless you take Robilar's Gambit(which is common), but that's still your enemy attacking you.

Greenish
2010-06-25, 09:05 AM
There is even Finishing Move - damage increases as you drop in HP.First, Finishing Move is Iron Heart maneuver.

Second, the damage from Finishing Move is increased when the target's hitpoints drop lower.

Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 09:07 AM
You guys are trying to hard to find something similar enough lol, I just wanted to know if there was a melee class with a main class feature of damaging themselves for buffs and special abilities.

Glyde
2010-06-25, 09:10 AM
Also Lady's Gambit, that's in the same vein too.

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-25, 09:11 AM
Crusaders are the ultimate masochists, but they don't inflict the damage on themselves...unless you take Robilar's Gambit(which is common), but that's still your enemy attacking you.

No, no, they do...there is definitely a line of maneuvers that does like, 8d6 to your opponent and 4d6 to you or something like that. I could swear its called "Divine Surge" or something like that. It's very interesting. It puts your massive HP pool to work for you, which I like.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-25, 09:16 AM
Oh? I missed that o.o

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-25, 09:23 AM
Googling gives me the answer!

Divine Surge, the base maneuver, does 8d8 damage, no downside.

It's Greater Divine Surge that does self damage, but not HP Damage (so I was wrong!). What it does is increase your damage and chance to hit for every point of Constitution damage you choose to take. Ouch.

Greenish
2010-06-25, 09:26 AM
No, no, they do...there is definitely a line of maneuvers that does like, 8d6 to your opponent and 4d6 to you or something like that. I could swear its called "Divine Surge" or something like that. It's very interesting. It puts your massive HP pool to work for you, which I like.Divine Surge just deals extra 8d8 damage on hit. Greater Divine Surge does 6d8 and allows you to sacrifice constitution points for 2d8 to damage and +1 to hit per point of con damage taken.

It also makes you flat-footed.

Eldariel
2010-06-25, 09:29 AM
Divine Surge just deals extra 8d8 damage on hit. Greater Divine Surge does 6d8 and allows you to sacrifice constitution points for 2d8 to damage and +1 to hit per point of con damage taken.

It also makes you flat-footed.

A wonderful maneuver indeed! Well, as long as you can expect to hit at +~15. 'cause missing with it sorta sucks. Then again, it's best suited for arena matches and the like due to the expensive cost for using it, and due to humanoids tending towards less HP making it a rather likely one-hit KO.

Dracons
2010-06-25, 09:41 AM
You guys are trying to hard to find something similar enough lol, I just wanted to know if there was a melee class with a main class feature of damaging themselves for buffs and special abilities.

Oh.

Well, no. Nothing official anyway.

9mm
2010-06-25, 09:52 AM
there's a barbarian AFC that trades rage for bunouses when below half health in the SRD.

Person_Man
2010-06-25, 09:53 AM
There are a bunch of different masochist builds that rely on some combination of Shock Trooper, Karmic Strike, Robilar's Gambit, Retributive Amulet, War Chanter, Ronin, Binder, and/or Psychic Warrior. The basic combo is:

1) Dump your AC and boost your damage output as much as possible.
2) Have some form of vampiric healing in place, so that every time you hit an enemy you heal damage.
3) Have some form of Share Pain in place, so that every time you take damage 50% of it goes to an enemy.
4) Whenever enemy hits you, they take half the damage, and you get an attack of opportunity, which heals you.

The problem with masochist builds is that they suck against enemies with high Saves and AC (because if your AoO miss repeatedly, you're boned), and have no inherent defenses against any of the other things that could kill you outside of melee.

Tinydwarfman
2010-06-25, 10:40 AM
Not exactly what you're looking for, bur I once made a frenzied berzerker / warchanter w/ -16 AC. He relied on miss chances for defense, and almost never missed. Good times.

Aeromyre
2010-06-25, 11:13 AM
Not exactly what you're looking for, bur I once made a frenzied berzerker / warchanter w/ -16 AC. He relied on miss chances for defense, and almost never missed. Good times.

No I'm not looking for optimization i'm looking to make a new class all together
I've got about half of it worked out right now, and I'll post it in the homebrew section, I'll pm anyone who would like me too when i do.

Person_Man
2010-06-25, 11:23 AM
Not exactly what you're looking for, bur I once made a frenzied berzerker / warchanter w/ -16 AC. He relied on miss chances for defense, and almost never missed. Good times.

Sounds fun, but also Feat intensive. What did you do about ranged attacks and magic based on Saving Throws?

hamishspence
2010-06-25, 11:46 AM
I will check them out, thank you for the suggestions


I've just checked- tainted warrior is pretty lacking in special features, and doesn't do anything with blood.

I like the notion of ToB maneuvers that receive extra power when powered with blood though- inflict 1 or more points of damage on yourself, and your maneuvers suddenly become nastier.

paddyfool
2010-06-25, 11:53 AM
There's a feat called "Pain mastery" in Savage Species which I think has some of what you need (generally more useful on monsters with buckets of HP than on characters, however).

Person_Man
2010-06-25, 12:25 PM
No I'm not looking for optimization i'm looking to make a new class all together
I've got about half of it worked out right now, and I'll post it in the homebrew section, I'll pm anyone who would like me too when i do.

Sounds like a fun idea. But note that any trade-off that relies on hit point or ability damage can be worked around. For example, most people who head into Hellfire Warlock start with Incarnate or Binder to undo the Constitution damage. And if you put a clause in the ability to the effect of "this damage cannot be avoided or prevented by any ability, and cannot be healed for 24 hours" or something similar, then the build becomes useless after 1 fight. I'll be interested to see how you balance the mechanical concerns.

Draz74
2010-06-25, 12:37 PM
Vicious weapons (+1-equivalent enhancement, DMG) should get a mention here, just in case people have forgotten about them. Easiest way in the game to deal extra damage by damaging oneself.

Sc00by
2010-06-25, 02:10 PM
But note that any trade-off that relies on hit point or ability damage can be worked around. For example, most people who head into Hellfire Warlock start with Incarnate or Binder to undo the Constitution damage.

Which in my mind is fair enough as you are having to work round the damage taken, taking levels in alternate classes is in fluff terms a pretty big investment for a character to be able to deal more damage consistantly.

As you go on to say; unless there is a way of off setting the damage taken to charge up the extra damage the class will get ignored, so it's a matter if balance. Allow the damage to be offset some how, but only with a reasonable investment on the part of the character.
HP damage isn't that big a deal as a 'deterent' as it's really easy to offset, IMHO.

Aeromyre
2010-06-27, 09:41 AM
If you have suggestions for blood powers I'd be open to them and would appreciate them

Darrin
2010-06-27, 11:16 AM
Vicious weapons (+1-equivalent enhancement, DMG) should get a mention here, just in case people have forgotten about them. Easiest way in the game to deal extra damage by damaging oneself.

Wrathful Healing, +3 weapon enhancement in Enemies & Allies, heals half of the damage you inflict.

Morph Bark
2010-06-27, 11:23 AM
Wrathful Healing, +3 weapon enhancement in Enemies & Allies, heals half of the damage you inflict.

Sounds perfect for an ubercharger.

Aeromyre
2010-06-27, 11:25 AM
Wrathful Healing, +3 weapon enhancement in Enemies & Allies, heals half of the damage you inflict.

Yes I gave the blood warriors something like that part of their main power:
Blood Mend: The Blood Warrior’s basic ability to use his blood against his enemies is the Blood Mend. As a move action he cuts himself with his weapon dealing half his level in damage to himself, rounding up. His blood mends with his weapon. His mended weapon deals extra damage equal to his level for 3 rounds. He may also choose to deal 2 extra points of damage to himself for each additional round; the maximum for this is 20, including the initial 3. In addition whenever a mended weapon deals damage 1/3 of the damage dealt heals the blood warrior, returning the blood of the enemy’s wounds to the weapon which channels into positive energy. This ability also allows the Blood Warrior to use his Blood Powers that he acquires.

Dracons
2010-06-27, 11:58 AM
Wrathful Healing, +3 weapon enhancement in Enemies & Allies, heals half of the damage you inflict.

Wow. Main OP loves this idea, even though I suggested it back on first page, reply number 16.


No real shock. People skip over me all the time.

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-27, 12:05 PM
Yes I gave the blood warriors something like that part of their main power:
Blood Mend: The Blood Warrior’s basic ability to use his blood against his enemies is the Blood Mend. As a move action he cuts himself with his weapon dealing half his level in damage to himself, rounding up. His blood mends with his weapon. His mended weapon deals extra damage equal to his level for 3 rounds. He may also choose to deal 2 extra points of damage to himself for each additional round; the maximum for this is 20, including the initial 3. In addition whenever a mended weapon deals damage 1/3 of the damage dealt heals the blood warrior, returning the blood of the enemy’s wounds to the weapon which channels into positive energy. This ability also allows the Blood Warrior to use his Blood Powers that he acquires.

I think you mean "meld"

Aeromyre
2010-06-27, 12:07 PM
I think you mean "meld"

Yes I suppose i do, *facepalm*

Snake-Aes
2010-06-27, 12:09 PM
Maybe you could try something less reliable on his blood for damage itself?
Maybe your character is trained on the hunting of a specific type of supernatural beast, whose regeneration can only be stopped by your blood. So you coat the weapon with your blood and it'll bypass regeneration and deal some token damage. (Blood Plus, I'm ripping you)

Aeromyre
2010-06-27, 12:14 PM
Maybe you could try something less reliable on his blood for damage itself?
Maybe your character is trained on the hunting of a specific type of supernatural beast, whose regeneration can only be stopped by your blood. So you coat the weapon with your blood and it'll bypass regeneration and deal some token damage. (Blood Plus, I'm ripping you)

It's not my character it's a class I'm making,
And the blood thing is the premise of the class

Snake-Aes
2010-06-27, 12:15 PM
Right. Well, for a full class progression it ought to give a multitude of different tricks...
<recluses to think>

Aeromyre
2010-06-27, 12:54 PM
The blood warrior gets a blood power he can activate one power per round if he is Blood Melding.
I'm making 40 powers 2 for each level.