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theos911
2010-06-26, 11:31 AM
Alright you saw pally and fighter, your ready to yell NOOOOO! I realize this is not the optimal choice. However, I am in a medium power campaign. Pally and fighter will shine just fine, and the group needs a frontliner. It is also a dragon themed campaign. The game is half-gestalt meaning 8/4. I'm looking at Paladin 5/Platinum knight3//Fighter 4. My stats are 16, 10, 16, 8, 11, 14. Those are after the racial mods. I'm looking for advice on feat choice. I've got my level 1 feat, and my level 3 and 6 feat as well as 3 fighter bonus feats for a total of 6 feats to find. I will be using a tower shield and warhammer or similar one handed dwarfy weapon. I am in full plate. Dm has both fighter and pally getting certain extra abilities. They are as follows

In blue means I curently qualify for them.
- Fighter:
- level 3: -1 to penalties from wearing armor
- level 5: +1 max DEX bonus when wearing any kind of armor
- level 7: to-hit bonus from weapon focus is now valid for all weapons in a group of weapons
- level 9: damage bonus from weapon specialization changes from +2 to +1 per full 3 levels of fighter
- level 11: damage bonus from weapon specialization is now valid for all weapons in a group of weapons

- Paladins:
- level 1: weapon focus with their deity's favored weapon
- level 8: weapon specialization with their deity's favored weapon

I'm looking at a charge in with hammer and shield and hit hard power attack type, but one that can also deal reliable damage with his normal attacks. His current BaB is +8/+3. +11/+6 after str mod.
I'm looking for feat recommendations. I greatly appreciate any input you can give me, as I've never played this type of archetype before.(I'm normally a bard guy)

Ajadea
2010-06-26, 11:42 AM
Er...Power Attack? Goad, maybe. What books do you have?

Quirp
2010-06-26, 11:49 AM
If you want to charge a lot Power Attack, Leap Attack, Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper are your friend. A tower shield is not a good choice since it reduces your attack roll by two.

One question though: How do you get an 8th level paladin power when you have only five levels?

sofawall
2010-06-26, 11:49 AM
Fighter is giving you little on the other side of a gestalt. You already have a good HD and full BAB, martial weapons and armour, even shields. All fighter gives is some bonus feats.

theos911
2010-06-26, 11:57 AM
Fighter is giving you little on the other side of a gestalt. You already have a good HD and full BAB, martial weapons and armour, even shields. All fighter gives is some bonus feats.

All books are good, DM is lenient on refluffing entry reqs for most stuff, but no cheesey bs.


One question though: How do you get an 8th level paladin power when you have only five levels?

I don't. Fixed! Gimme a break I only have 8 int......


Fighter is giving you little on the other side of a gestalt. You already have a good HD and full BAB, martial weapons and armor, even shields. All fighter gives is some bonus feats.

Well, what do you, recommend, and it can't be a full casting class. Half-caster at most for fluff reasons:smalltongue:

Zovc
2010-06-26, 02:03 PM
Well, the "Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue)" has more skill points, better class skills (Use Magic Device in particular), and actually gets other class features along with its bonus feats.

That's if you're attached to bonus feats.

Hawk7915
2010-06-26, 02:13 PM
Knight (PH2) on the other side would give you a d12 HD, good will saves, some neat class features, and you'd still get a bonus feat eventually. Feat Rogue is another good choice. Marshal (Miniatures Handbook) or even Bard wouldn't be awful.

For feats, I'd recommend going for a 2H weapon and Power-attacking/Shock trooping for great justice. If you're married to the Sword and Board concept, try to get Shield Ward (also PH2), which applies your Shield bonus to Touch AC and checks to resist getting grappled, bull rushed, and tripped. At ECL 8, however, you're approaching the point where sword&board AC optimization is pretty worthless without a lot of min/maxing and isn't really good even then, so 2H weapon is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

For more good feat choices, look at...
Devotion Feats (Complete Champion): Animal, Law, and Travel are among the sweetest. You just got turn undead, so you'll have plenty of uses/day.

Divine Might/Divine Vigor: More turning-fueled power: either add charisma to damage (meh, +2, but it's a free action) or get +10' speed and +16 temporary HP.

Smite Optimization: Extra Smiting (2 more uses/day), Awesome Smite (smite + power attack = ignores concealment or DR, or free knock-down), Improved Smite (+1d6 damage), Cuthbert's Smite (can smite Chaos as well as Evil, 1 extra smite/day), and a weapon of Mighty Smiting (+2 damage on a smite, and 1 extra smite/day).

Zovc
2010-06-26, 02:28 PM
Knight (PH2)

I'm not sure I like knight, personally. The upgrade from d10 to d12 is not that big of a difference. By level 20, that adds up to 21 extra life (assuming you go with the full at first level, half at each other rule most people use). It does actually get class features in lieu of bonus feats, though.

Psychic Warrior is a good combination with Paladin, actually. It gives you a better reason to invest in Wisdom, and you still don't have to invest too much into Wisdom. You still get some bonus feats!

Similarly, Swordsage could be an interesting combination with Paladin, your Paladin's chassis will improve Swordsage, and you don't have to take advantage of its AC bonus if using armor will yield better results (but then again, losing 10' from your movement speed when wearing heavy armor might hose you a little if you want to run around a lot).

Marshall is an interesting choice if you want a better excuse to invest in Charisma.

Also consider that if you really want your bonus feats, it might be worthwhile to take only two levels of Fighter on the Paladin side of your gestalt. Paladin, as far as I remember, doesn't give you all that much beyond level 2, so slowing it down by one or two levels probably isn't all that bad.

Satyr
2010-06-26, 02:39 PM
I too would recommend to take the Knight instead of the Fighter. The Mounted Combat related bonus feats of the knight work well with the Paladin's Mount and the Test of Mettle ability is nice (but really depending on your Knight levels).
Usually, a big weapon is better choice, but if you really want to fight with a shield Shield Charge/Slam (from CompleteWarrior) is an okay combination to daze and trip a foe.

However, Knight 8//Paladin 4 is probably the better combination due to Test of Mettle (and believe me, that's a nice ability, as it basically forces your foes to concentrate on you and leaving your team mates alone. Plus, foes you threaten cannot take 5' steps so you can make them attack and then stick on you. This works really well with another team mate who has sneak attack, making you the anvil and your friend the hammer to trap your enemies.

theos911
2010-06-26, 02:53 PM
I'm using pally for flavor mainly but also it's early benefits. Two levels of fighter on main side might work with a bonus feat giving secondary class. ToB is outlawed.



Well, the "Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue)" has more skill points, better class skills (Use Magic Device in particular), and actually gets other class features along with its bonus feats.

That's if you're attached to bonus feats.
Yes, the bonus feats are needed. I like the rogue, as it gives me something fighter doesn't;actually it gives me nothing..... I get a few levels of a good reflex save. Evasion doesn't work in heavy armor and I don't have a dex bonus to keep while flat-footed from uncanny dodge.

Fouredged Sword
2010-06-26, 03:02 PM
I would drop the fighter levels and pick up ether crusader or warblade if your DM premits ToB. A crusader can tank like very well with his self healing and his delay pool. This works doubly well with the stone power feat, as you can pick up temp HP to empty the delay pool into. The flavor matches the Palidin well.

Warblade on the other hand is a more offensive pick. The Dimond Mind set has the ability to make an attack as a touch. That's great to add onto a smite! Steel wind bends the action economy some, two attacks for a standard action.

Both have access to White Raven. Now that is a real reason to make something pick you to attack. You buff up the rest of the group really nicely.

there is something to be said for a swordsage though. A mitheral brestplate for armor with your wis to def is golden. Also Iles of Blades flanks from any angle, makeing it do any foe you and a friend threatens is flanked! That can really make a dragon much easier and make you the rouges best friend. Also it may not work all the time, but consider the setting sun abilities as I find dragons like to charge, and countercharge would end that. You'd be fighting that large size mod though.

Or go for maximum versitility. Take a level of each and then a second level of swordsage. Your max level for manuvers is determined by the sum of your levels, not one class like magic. As long as you keep them all within a level of eachother you avoid EXP penelties for multiclassing so long a Pali if your favored.

That's a lot of stances and manuvers readied at 4th.

theos911
2010-06-26, 03:09 PM
I would drop the fighter levels and pick up ether crusader or warblade if your DM premits ToB. A crusader can tank like very well with his self healing and his delay pool. This works doubly well with the stone power feat, as you can pick up temp HP to empty the delay pool into. The flavor matches the Palidin well.

Warblade on the other hand is a more offensive pick. The Dimond Mind set has the ability to make an attack as a touch. That's great to add onto a smite! Steel wind bends the action economy some, two attacks for a standard action.

Both have access to White Raven. Now that is a real reason to make something pick you to attack. You buff up the rest of the group really nicely.

there is something to be said for a swordsage though. A mitheral brestplate for armor with your wis to def is golden. Also Iles of Blades flanks from any angle, makeing it do any foe you and a friend threatens is flanked! That can really make a dragon much easier and make you the rouges best friend. Also it may not work all the time, but consider the setting sun abilities as I find dragons like to charge, and countercharge would end that. You'd be fighting that large size mod though.

Or go for maximum versitility. Take a level of each and then a second level of swordsage. Your max level for manuvers is determined by the sum of your levels, not one class like magic. As long as you keep them all within a level of eachother you avoid EXP penelties for multiclassing so long a Pali if your favored.

That's a lot of stances and manuvers readied at 4th.

Which brings me back to, ToB is outlawed!

Zovc
2010-06-26, 03:17 PM
Yes, the bonus feats are needed. I like the rogue, as it gives me something fighter doesn't;actually it gives me nothing..... I get a few levels of a good reflex save. Evasion doesn't work in heavy armor and I don't have a dex bonus to keep while flat-footed from uncanny dodge.

The fact that it gives you something the fighter doesn't AND 'it gives you nothing' should be of note here.

Here is Fighter//Paladin
Full BAB
1d10 HD
Good Fortitude Saving Throw
2+Int skills, small skill list
Fighter Feats
Paladin Features

Here is Feat Rogue//Paladin
Full BAB
1d10 BAB
Good Fortitude and Reflex Saving Throws
8+Int skills, large skill list
Fighter Feats
Rogue Features (minus Sneak Attack)
Paladin Features

So, tell me. What did you lose switching from Fighter to Feat rogue?

Those skill points may very well help you qualify for prestige classes, and work wonders for making you useful outside of combat, before you sneeze at them.

Zovc
2010-06-26, 03:22 PM
For your purposes, the "Generic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#warrior)" is also strictly better than the fighter.

Instead of granting only fighter bonus feats, you can select any feat you qualify for (or perhaps even get a class feature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#bonusFeats)). You can also choose the class' class skills and which save is its good save. In other words, you eliminate the Fortitude save overlap, and you get to choose your class skills... your Bonus feats are also more versatile.

Actually, the "Generic Expert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#expert)" is even better at early levels, since you can choose Reflex and Will as its good saves, you get more skill points, more class skills, and the same amount of bonus feats.

theos911
2010-06-26, 03:32 PM
I forgot about the extra skill points, those are helpful. I think I might do the feat rogue thing, because of the skill points. They are rare and precious in this build. BTW how do I use this to make dice rolls?

Ok, I've changed the build completely. It is now fighter 6, Plat Knight 2//"Feat Rogue" 4.

These are the feats I'm looking at:
Dragonfriend(A WASTE, but needed for plat knight)
Brutal Strike
Improved Bull Rush
Shock Trooper
Shield Ward
Power Attack
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
I personally dislike leap attack, it doesn't fit my character fluff

Dropping pally allows me to drop cha, and thus i can get my int to 13 and drop wis to 10, this should help a good deal. It also allows me to play him with poor speak without having low int. I'd image poor communication could from low int or cha so I'm good.

I now have 10 feats. 3 from rogue, 4 from fighter and 3 from normal feats.

This is what I decided on:

1-Power Attack
1FB-Combat Expertise
1RB-Improved Trip

2FB-Improved Bull Rush
22RB-shield Specialization

3-Dragonfriend

4FB-Shield Ward
4RB-Cleave

6-Brutal Strike
6FB-Shock Trooper

Zovc
2010-06-28, 03:51 PM
Sorry to necro your thread, but I thought of something before I went to sleep last night.

You're right, Evasion won't be of much use to you (unless you, like many adventurers do at some point in their career, get separated from your gear). Trapfinding probably won't be your shtick, either. I recommend you look at PId6's Rogue Handbook. There is a section for alternate class features, you can probably replace both of them with something more useful to you.

I'm not sure what they do mechanically, but their sound like things a paladin could enjoy: Trapfinding -> Mimic and Evasion -> Spell Reflection.