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Protecar
2010-06-26, 12:08 PM
So I'm going to be in a new campaign--and for the first time I'll be playing in gestalt. I've been trying to figure out what I want to do and I'm pretty sure I want to play some sort of crazy-cool caster guy but I'm torn as to what.

In another campaign I'm already a Sorcerer/Binder/Anima Mage so I don't really want to go that route. And I think someone else is going to pick up druid//something so I don't want to step on his toes.

So I was thinking of trying psionics. :smallbiggrin: Problem is: I don't know too much about it and it seems more complicated than I first thought. So I'm open to suggestions. I was considering Ardent 13//Fighter 1/something 4/Ur-Priest 8 to start but it's not that optimized a game and I don't want to go around breaking it.

So, any ideas? I'm open to any arcane/divine classes and alternate magic forms asides from Sorcerer/Binder/and Druid.

DM said he'd even be okay with me taking a dual-progression class like Mystic Theurge if I wished. So I could technically try to work in three or more different magic classes(like I said, I don't need overpowered, but I like versatility that works with flavor).

Thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I think I'd like to fit Factotum in somewhere. I just remembered how cool those guys are! And all 3.5 books are available

Daelen
2010-06-26, 12:27 PM
How is the DM handling LA and HD? If its on one side, I once built a killer Black Ethergaunt//Factotum 20. Not highly highly optimized, but definitely gets the job done.

Swok
2010-06-26, 12:29 PM
Psion20//Factotum5/Chameleon10/Factotum+5

All the fun of being a factotum (sadly no SR penetration), and you can get a +6 competence bonus to your int from chameleon. And you can even act like a mystic theurge by taking arcane and divine focuses (this also makes your will save scary)

And each day you can get a new Expanded Knowledge Power from floating chameleon feat.

Quirp
2010-06-26, 12:29 PM
Now if you like the factotum and want to try psionics I have heard that factotum and psion have great synergy. Both are intelligence based and if you want to pull out the big guns you are up to some serious nova potential (action abuse and all).

Protecar
2010-06-26, 12:40 PM
@Daelen: I don't think he's letting us have anything with LAs or RHD.

@Swok: Where can I find the Chameleon?

Also, my numbers for stats are: 16, 16, 16, 12, 10, 10 (this doesn't include the + 3 from leveling).

So having a character that's MAD could potentially be doable.

Thanks for the advice thus far. :smallsmile:

Edit: Found the Chameleon online. That has some awesomeness to it. :smallbiggrin:

Edit 2: Where can I find the Schism ability? I hear that lets your psicrystal do quickened powers or something during your turn but I haven't found where it is.

The-Mage-King
2010-06-26, 01:04 PM
@Daelen: I don't think he's letting us have anything with LAs or RHD.

@Swok: Where can I find the Chameleon?

Also, my numbers for stats are: 16, 16, 16, 12, 10, 10 (this doesn't include the + 3 from leveling).

So having a character that's MAD could potentially be doable.

Thanks for the advice thus far. :smallsmile:

Edit: Found the Chameleon online. That has some awesomeness to it. :smallbiggrin:

Edit 2: Where can I find the Schism ability? I hear that lets your psicrystal do quickened powers or something during your turn but I haven't found where it is.

First: Chameleon is in Races of Destiny, human only, and you have to have Able Learner to take it.

Second: Schisim (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm).

EDIT: Third: Sink those 16's into Int, Dex, and Wis, he 12 into Con, and the 10's into Str and Cha.

Fourth: I'd suggest for your side of Psion, you don't go Telepath. I recommened... Uh, Egoist, for the transformationnal abilities. That way, as your Psion 10 bonus feat, you can pick up Expanded Knowledge (Schism), and continue on your way.

PId6
2010-06-26, 01:38 PM
My suggestion:

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 16 (+all level ups and anything else you can put in here)
Wis 12
Cha 10

Psion 5/Anarchic Initiate 1/Psion +7//Factotum 11/Chameleon 2

Erudite can replace Psion. Out of the disciplines, Egoist is good for Metamorphosis, Shaper is always awesome for Astral Construct, Kineticist is great at blasting, while Telepath can get you Telepathy (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) which lets you take Mindsight.

Anarchic Initiate 1 gives you Chaotic Surge, which is very powerful especially for Kineticists. Factotum 11 gets you the awesome Cunning Surge and Cunning Breach, letting you ignore PR when you feel like it and take extra turns when you want. You'll want to take some instances of Font of Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) so that you can do this often. Chameleon 2 offers the best of the class, giving you a floating Bonus Feat that you can use for a variety of purposes, including crafting (using it to get any of the psionic Crafting feats) and picking new powers when you need them (using it to get Expanded Knowledge).

Afterward, just advance more Psion//Factotum.

Wings of Peace
2010-06-26, 04:11 PM
If you want lots of actions I personally like:

Psion 13//Druid 5/Planar Shepard (Region of Dreams) 8

Yes you can get more actions at once with Factotum but Planar Shepard will save you ALOT of feats. It will also still play relatively different from your friends druid most likely but if it's a big issue you can always take Ranger instead of Druid. It's a little MAD but if that becomes a big issue you can take the Academic Priest feat to tie your druid casting to INT.

If it's available you might consider taking Spell to Power Erudite Variant over the Psion. It gives you ALOT more variety in your power choices but depending on the power level of your campaign could easily be too much when combod with Planar Shepard.

PId6
2010-06-26, 04:16 PM
Psion 13//Druid 5/Planar Shepard (Region of Dreams) 8
Ardent > Psion here, due to Wis synergy.

Still, Planar Shepherd is probably a bit too much.

Wings of Peace
2010-06-26, 04:22 PM
Ardent > Psion here, due to Wis synergy.

Still, Planar Shepherd is probably a bit too much.

Probably correct on the Planar Shepard count. Ardent is really only better for the MAD though, which with his stat distribution shouldn't be a huge problem, especially if he takes Academic Priest. I'd still pick Psion personally for the variety of Powers.

Protecar
2010-06-26, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the help guys! I think I'm going to go with Psion 13//Factotum 5/Chameleon 7/Factotum 1 for right now: I like the idea of having full psionic one side and taking the double aptitude to get me 4th/5th level arcane and divine spells every day.

I'm picking items now and am trying to figure out if an extend rod would be better to take than a Belt of Battle(we're going by MIC so I get one 13th level item)--what good 4th/5th level arcane spells and 4th level divine spells could I extend from my Chameleon side?

Edit: also, what 3rd level and below spells should I have extended on me? (both arcane/divine) I'll have a metamagic rod of lesser extend too.

PId6
2010-06-26, 04:30 PM
Probably correct on the Planar Shepard count. Ardent is really only better for the MAD though, which with his stat distribution shouldn't be a huge problem, especially if he takes Academic Priest. I'd still pick Psion personally for the variety of Powers.
Dominant Ideal is another reason why Ardent can be really good. Ultimately though, the viability of Ardent depends entirely on how open your DM is to substitute powers. Without them, the power selection is bad that you need to take Expanded Knowledge a lot to be viable. With them, Ardent becomes a much better choice with some great advantages over Psion (mostly Dominant Ideal).

Wings of Peace
2010-06-26, 04:40 PM
I realize you've already made up your mind which is good, but just to toss it out there so that you know your options:

Archivist 10/Sacred Exocist 1/Archivist 2//Warlock 12/Unbound Scroll 1

Will get you all the goodness of the Archivist and with Warlock allow you to craft scrolls for any spell you could ever want. It takes some feat shenanigans but progressing after Warlock into Unbound Scroll also reduces your casting costs meaning you can pretty easily learn any spell in the game.

Zovc
2010-06-26, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the help guys! I think I'm going to go with Psion 13//Factotum 5/Chameleon 7/Factotum 1 for right now: I like the idea of having full psionic one side and taking the double aptitude to get me 4th/5th level arcane and divine spells every day.

You would be wise to get Factotum 8 before leaving the class for any amount of time. 8 is when you get Cunning surge, right?

Protecar
2010-06-26, 04:55 PM
I realize you've already made up your mind which is good, but just to toss it out there so that you know your options:

Archivist 10/Sacred Exocist 1/Archivist 2//Warlock 12/Unbound Scroll 1

Will get you all the goodness of the Archivist and with Warlock allow you to craft scrolls for any spell you could ever want. It takes some feat shenanigans but progressing after Warlock into Unbound Scroll also reduces your casting costs meaning you can pretty easily learn any spell in the game.

Curse you Wings of Peace and your salesmanship! Why do you have to make such wanton destruction sound so appealing? :belkar:

Alright, I'll bite. Please tell me how this build works exactly. Where's this sacred exorcist and unbound scroll? I'm not too familiar with either.

Edit: @zovc: I know getting the potential extra standard action would be better than my little chameleon-shenanigans, but I'd rather get done with my chameleon levels and have the option of those arcane/divine spells all the time then another standard action. Optimal? Not quite, but c'est la vie.
Thanks for the advice though!

(and it is at 8th level)

playswithfire
2010-06-26, 05:04 PM
Edit: I think I'd like to fit Factotum in somewhere. I just remembered how cool those guys are! And all 3.5 books are available

There was a build on the CharOp boards that was straightforward but pretty powerful called... Factotum of War (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871250/Factotum_of_War) (formatting got screwed up after the board redesign). Basically just Factotum//Warblade, but you can always mix in some other stuff if you want (two levels of swordsage and Carmendine Monk for instance).

Wings of Peace
2010-06-26, 05:40 PM
Curse you Wings of Peace and your salesmanship! Why do you have to make such wanton destruction sound so appealing? :belkar:

Alright, I'll bite. Please tell me how this build works exactly. Where's this sacred exorcist and unbound scroll? I'm not too familiar with either.


Sacred Exorcist is from Complete Divine. It's not necessary to the build but it nets an Archivist Turn Undead allowing you to DMM Persist your spells if your DM makes acquiring Turn Undead boosting items easy. Unbound Scroll is from an Eberron book called Dragonmarked. It reduces the crafting costs of scrolls based on your level in the class. It requires Arcane Spellcasting but to get around this you are going to take either the feat Southern Magician or Alternate Source Spell (If your DM allows Dragon Magazine Material) this will allow your Archivist to turn his Divine Spells into Arcane spells thus qualifying you for Unbound Scroll.

After you've taken five levels in Unbound Scroll consider taking levels on either side in Legacy Champion. it will stack with Unbound Scroll allowing you to craft scrolls for nearly free at higher levels meaning learning all those spells you like will cost you very little.

Just be sure your DM is fairly open minded. To learn spells such as Wizard spells you'll be crafting their divine versions that can be learned through various prestige classes etc. Some DMs will be okay with this since it's RAW but others might grief you about it. Either way you'll be able to pick from every divine spell in the game at the very least.