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Seatbelt
2010-06-26, 02:46 PM
Does applying the fiendish or celestial template to something change its alignment to evil/good?

Edit: Also how am I supposed to control these monsters? I don't have handle animal as a class skill so its unlikely I can make any sort of check to control a summoned monster reliably.

Also, a fiendish wolf has a CMB of +5, and this
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---final#TOC-Trip
says creatures with more than 2 legs get +2 for each additional leg. So does the wolf actually get +9 to his check?

Mystic Muse
2010-06-26, 03:21 PM
Does applying the fiendish or celestial template to something change its alignment to evil/good?

Edit: Also how am I supposed to control these monsters? I don't have handle animal as a class skill so its unlikely I can make any sort of check to control a summoned monster reliably.

If they're roughly the same alignment as you they should follow your commands. Yes, applying the fiendish or celestial template makes a character evil or good unless it says otherwise. Unless you're playing pathfinder in which case I'm not sure of either.



Also, a fiendish wolf has a CMB of +5, and this
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---final#TOC-Trip
says creatures with more than 2 legs get +2 for each additional leg. So does the wolf actually get +9 to his check?
This I'm not sure on. I don't play pathfinder. I have my reasons.

Fouredged Sword
2010-06-26, 03:22 PM
Yes the alignment changes

You can give summoned creatures basic comand without handle animal.

PId6
2010-06-26, 03:32 PM
Edit: Also how am I supposed to control these monsters? I don't have handle animal as a class skill so its unlikely I can make any sort of check to control a summoned monster reliably.
If they're Celestial/Fiendish, then they have enough Int to be considered sapient and are Magical Beasts rather than animals. The spell itself allows you to provide basic commands (on the magnitude of "Go," "Attack," "Stop," etc). You should also be able to give more complex commands in languages they'd understand (I'd imagine Celestial for Celestial creatures and Infernal/Abyssal for Fiendish creatures), though that's still limited by their quite low Int scores.

QuantumSteve
2010-06-26, 03:49 PM
Also, a fiendish wolf has a CMB of +5, and this
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---final#TOC-Trip
says creatures with more than 2 legs get +2 for each additional leg. So does the wolf actually get +9 to his check?

Creatures with more than 2 legs get +2 to their CMD for each additional leg, so a Wolf would get an extra +4 to his CMD to resist being tripped.



Edit: After actually looking in my Bestiary, every post on this thread is wrong! At least in Pathfinder.

The alignment does not change to evil. It does, however, change to match your alignment as per summon monster.

Fiendish/Celestial Animals are not type: Magical Beast. They are simply Fiendish or Celestial Animals.

As for controlling you creature, thats kind of vauge. Summon Monster says you have to be able to communicate with the creature to issue commands. Nothing about being able to give basic "Stop", "Go", "Attack".

You should ask this on the Paizo boards. The designers often hang out there and can answer questions about how things should work. Pathfinder, unfortunately, has many errors and oversights and it's hard, sometimes to know what was deliberate and what wasn't. So, yeah, Paizo boards.


Re-Edit: Found this (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/celestialFiendishCreaturesNoLongerGoodEvil) on th Paizo boards. In particular, this post:


It's deliberate. The celestial and fiendish templates were redesigned to make them simpler to apply, since applying them to summoned monsters during game play is the primary use for them. It also helps to limit the abuse one can heap on the lower level ones—if you want to do some REALLY tactical stuff with summoned monsters, that's an advantage of summoning things like devils and demons and azatas and archons.

That doesn't mean that the PC should have NO control over his summoned monsters, of course. He should be able to direct who the summoned monster attacks, and what attack options the summoned monster uses, and where it attacks from. The GM, of course, has final say in how tactical he wants to let a summon monster spell get, of course.