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View Full Version : Item Level, Caster Level, Aura [3.x, PF]



onthetown
2010-06-26, 05:15 PM
I've been crafting some magic items recently and I'm a little baffled with some of the descriptors that items have. All of my information here comes from the Magic Item Compendium, though I used some of the pricing tables in the Pathfinder Rulebook when I was crafting them.

First of all, Item Level. It's giving me the most issues. I have a staff that cost close to 20,000 gp to create and has 3 4th level spells, 2 5th level spells, and 1 6th level spell in it as per day abilities, but because it's only got a +2 enhancement (something akin to shocking burst) it says that it should be priced at around 6,501 gp - 8,000 gp and fall under Item Level: 11th. Do I follow the sample item and say it's 11th level, or follow the actual amount of gp it took to create it and put it under 15th level (18,001 gp - 25,000 gp).

Second, Caster Level. Is this the item's creator's caster level? I've looked in the book and I'm not too clear on it. It says that it's the item's caster level, so wouldn't the item's caster level be the same as its creator's? If that's so, then I'm wondering what I need to look at to determine when I can craft it. I'm going to guess at what seems obvious and suggest that you have to look at what level of spells are in it and the minimum level you can cast said spells: the staff had a 6th level Bard spell in it, so the minimum caster level should be... 16th, the first level that Bards can access 6th level spells? Granted, that works nicely with the Item Level being 15th if I follow the price it took to create it, but I have a feeling I'm missing something, here.

Finally, Aura. You need Detect Magic to be able to make Spellcraft checks to identify the item's properties. I just don't understand the strong, medium, weak concept, not to mention trying to give a school to a magic item. What happens if, although they generally follow the same theme, the spells in it are completely different schools?

Somebody help my confusion. I like being able to make my own stuff and I'd love to be able to make them accessible to people outside of our own house rules (which is, more or less, just use the freaking item until it's proven otherwise that you can't use it).

Edit: Also, what kind of pricing guide would you use for constant effects? Like, how much it would cost to add a constant effect of a 0-level spell to armour.

Edit Edit: How does Cost to Create and the item's actual cost differ? Is it doubled for market price?

The-Mage-King
2010-06-26, 05:22 PM
I've been crafting some magic items recently and I'm a little baffled with some of the descriptors that items have. All of my information here comes from the Magic Item Compendium, though I used some of the pricing tables in the Pathfinder Rulebook when I was crafting them.

Alright, I'll see what I can do...



First of all, Item Level. It's giving me the most issues. I have a staff that cost close to 20,000 gp to create and has 3 4th level spells, 2 5th level spells, and 1 6th level spell in it as per day abilities, but because it's only got a +2 enhancement (something akin to shocking burst) it says that it should be priced at around 6,501 gp - 8,000 gp and fall under Item Level: 11th. Do I follow the sample item and say it's 11th level, or follow the actual amount of gp it took to create it and put it under 15th level (18,001 gp - 25,000 gp).

Item level? Not really needed. However, I'd say that you should probably put it at the higher level. You see, you add SLAs to the cost, using the second table here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm).



Second, Caster Level. Is this the item's creator's caster level? I've looked in the book and I'm not too clear on it. It says that it's the item's caster level, so wouldn't the item's caster level be the same as its creator's? If that's so, then I'm wondering what I need to look at to determine when I can craft it. I'm going to guess at what seems obvious and suggest that you have to look at what level of spells are in it and the minimum level you can cast said spells: the staff had a 6th level Bard spell in it, so the minimum caster level should be... 16th, the first level that Bards can access 6th level spells? Granted, that works nicely with the Item Level being 15th if I follow the price it took to create it, but I have a feeling I'm missing something, here.

Ah, the old Caster Level problem. Yes, you follow the minimum level to cast the spells used in the creation as the Caster Level, possibly increasing it if you want them to be used at a higher level.


Finally, Aura. You need Detect Magic to be able to make Spellcraft checks to identify the item's properties. I just don't understand the strong, medium, weak concept, not to mention trying to give a school to a magic item. What happens if, although they generally follow the same theme, the spells in it are completely different schools?

The Aura strength depends on the CL, I believe. As for the school... It depends. What spells are you using for this?

EDIT: Cost to create is on the first table. Just look over it.

onthetown
2010-06-26, 05:34 PM
Ah, the old Caster Level problem. Yes, you follow the minimum level to cast the spells used in the creation as the Caster Level, possibly increasing it if you want them to be used at a higher level.

...

The Aura strength depends on the CL, I believe. As for the school... It depends. What spells are you using for this?


Can a character lower than that Caster Level still use the spells within the item if they buy it? For instance, can a wizard who can't yet cast 8th level spells use an item with an 8th level spell in it?

Resonating Bolt (Evocation, Sonic), Body Harmonic (Transmutation), and Sympathetic Vibration (Evocation, Sonic). It's leaning toward Evocation but what about the Transmutation? Can an item have multiple auras?

Siosilvar
2010-06-26, 05:40 PM
Can a character lower than that Caster Level still use the spells within the item if they buy it? For instance, can a wizard who can't yet cast 8th level spells use an item with an 8th level spell in it?

Resonating Bolt (Evocation, Sonic), Body Harmonic (Transmutation), and Sympathetic Vibration (Evocation, Sonic). It's leaning toward Evocation but what about the Transmutation? Can an item have multiple auras?

To answer both of your questions: Yes.

Though I'm unaware of a printed dual-aura item (as most just go to Universal whenever there's more than one school), it makes sense - if there's two types of magic, you can find two.

For more information on auras (mostly strength), look at the detect magic spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm)

The-Mage-King
2010-06-26, 05:41 PM
Can a character lower than that Caster Level still use the spells within the item if they buy it? For instance, can a wizard who can't yet cast 8th level spells use an item with an 8th level spell in it?

Resonating Bolt (Evocation, Sonic), Body Harmonic (Transmutation), and Sympathetic Vibration (Evocation, Sonic). It's leaning toward Evocation but what about the Transmutation? Can an item have multiple auras?

It depends on the type of item- if its Use Activated (like a magical weapon, or magic suit of armor), of course! If it's Spell Completion (like scrolls), and the spell is on his class list, you'd need to make a CL check to activate it, with failure burning the item up. If its Spell Trigger (like wands), he can activate it if it's on his spell list. And if it's Command Word, so long as they know the activation command, sure.


__________

In that case, I'd advise Evocation for the Aura. Items can't have more than on aura, that I know of...

Douglas
2010-06-26, 05:42 PM
First of all, Item Level. It's giving me the most issues. I have a staff that cost close to 20,000 gp to create and has 3 4th level spells, 2 5th level spells, and 1 6th level spell in it as per day abilities, but because it's only got a +2 enhancement (something akin to shocking burst) it says that it should be priced at around 6,501 gp - 8,000 gp and fall under Item Level: 11th. Do I follow the sample item and say it's 11th level, or follow the actual amount of gp it took to create it and put it under 15th level (18,001 gp - 25,000 gp).
A +2 enhancement being 8000 gp and an 11th level item is for something where the +2 enhancement is the one and only thing it has. Your staff has several additional abilities, so it costs more and should be ranked by its total price. Also, the level ranking system in MIC is by market price, which is usually double the creation cost.


Second, Caster Level. Is this the item's creator's caster level? I've looked in the book and I'm not too clear on it. It says that it's the item's caster level, so wouldn't the item's caster level be the same as its creator's? If that's so, then I'm wondering what I need to look at to determine when I can craft it. I'm going to guess at what seems obvious and suggest that you have to look at what level of spells are in it and the minimum level you can cast said spells: the staff had a 6th level Bard spell in it, so the minimum caster level should be... 16th, the first level that Bards can access 6th level spells? Granted, that works nicely with the Item Level being 15th if I follow the price it took to create it, but I have a feeling I'm missing something, here.
The spells and abilities used to create the item set the minimum caster level it can possibly be. The crafter can then set the item's caster level to be anything between that minimum and his own actual caster level. If he sets it higher, the item will be in some ways more powerful, but it may also cost more to make. The item's caster level sets the DC for using Dispel Magic to suppress it, Spellcraft to examine it, and the caster level of any abilities the item has where that might be relevant. For example, a caster level 1 Wand of Magic Missile will shoot a single missile when used and roll 1d20+1 against the target's spell resistance. A caster level 5 Wand of Magic Missile would shoot 3 missiles and roll 1d20+5 against SR. The caster level 5 wand would also cost 5 times as much, due to the pricing formula including caster level.


Finally, Aura. You need Detect Magic to be able to make Spellcraft checks to identify the item's properties. I just don't understand the strong, medium, weak concept, not to mention trying to give a school to a magic item. What happens if, although they generally follow the same theme, the spells in it are completely different schools?
The aura strength is determined entirely by the item's caster level. If it has spells of multiple different schools, then a successful Spellcraft check with Detect Magic would reveal all of those schools.


Edit: Also, what kind of pricing guide would you use for constant effects? Like, how much it would cost to add a constant effect of a 0-level spell to armour.
The official guideline formulas are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues), and 0-level spells are generally treated as level 1/2 in such formulas. A continuous spell effect of a 0-level spell would, by these guidelines, cost 1000 * caster level, modified by a factor for the spell's normal duration as specified in footnote 3. Adding such an ability to an item that already has other magical abilities would incur an additional 50% markup.

Note, however, that this particular guideline formula is well known to be extremely broken. Depending on the choice of spell, it can produce something vastly overpriced to the point of worthlessness or something so overpowered it breaks the game. For this kind of item, it is best to eyeball it - find an existing item that is commonly used and, if you had to pick either that item or your custom item for your character you'd have trouble deciding which one to take, and set the price equal to that item's price.


Edit Edit: How does Cost to Create and the item's actual cost differ? Is it doubled for market price?
Most formulas concern market price only, as that is the more important figure in all cases other than a character crafting the item. The cost to craft an item is generally half of market price.

onthetown
2010-06-26, 05:57 PM
Thanks guys! Everything's looking sort of good now. :smalltongue:

Okay, one more problem.

I have armour that has a constant 0-level effect. The table says Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000, but because it's a constant effect it tells me to take that price and multiply it by 4.

The effect? Ghost Sound. (I'm using it to give enemies a -2 to Perception checks to look for you because they're distracted by the sound.) Above, you mentioned to use 1,000 for the 0-level spell. The armour also gives Blink, which bards have to be at level 7 to use. So... 1000 x 7 x 2000 x 4? 56,000 gp for a chain shirt that just gives you a bloody cantrip?

I'm likely missing the point.

Edit: Or maybe it means to multiply the 2000 by 4...

KillianHawkeye
2010-06-26, 08:32 PM
Okay, one more problem.

I have armour that has a constant 0-level effect. The table says Spell Level x Caster Level x 2000, but because it's a constant effect it tells me to take that price and multiply it by 4.

The effect? Ghost Sound. (I'm using it to give enemies a -2 to Perception checks to look for you because they're distracted by the sound.) Above, you mentioned to use 1,000 for the 0-level spell. The armour also gives Blink, which bards have to be at level 7 to use. So... 1000 x 7 x 2000 x 4? 56,000 gp for a chain shirt that just gives you a bloody cantrip?

I'm likely missing the point.

Edit: Or maybe it means to multiply the 2000 by 4...

Yeah, you're messing it up.

0-Level spells generally count as 0.5 levels for the purposes of these calculations. That's where the 1000 comes from: Spell Level (0.5) x Caster Level (1) x 2000 gp = 1000 gp. Multiply that by 4 for a constant effect.

Now do the cost for the other spell seperately. Spell Level (3) x Caster Level (7) x 2000 gp = 42,000 gp. I'm guessing that one's not going to be a constant effect, but you may have to multiply the cost of one of the enchantments by 1.5 since you're putting multiple things on one item.

onthetown
2010-06-27, 07:04 AM
Thanks :smallbiggrin: Numbers and math definitely aren't my strong point.