Multiple Performances

[Aeromyre]

SO my brother and I were talking about bards and the preform skill.
If a single bard had a singing preform skill and a stringed preform skill could he use both skills in unison and if so how would that work?
And to develop the question further could a band of bards play their instruments together and get a bonus?

[Traveler]

As an opinion, I would say that the bard would make the two checks, add the result together and divide by two for the avarage. So for perform (sing) and perform (lute), the bard makes two checks. Perform (sing) is an 24 including bonuses. Perform (lute) had an 18 including bonuses. 24 + 18 = 42 / 2 = 21. Ta da.
Again an opinion.
Edit: For the band, I would use the same princible as above, but each member gets a +2 per bard for aid another.

[Flickerdart]

I believe that a Bard isn't able to do that. However, a Virtuoso is explicitly allowed to combine different kinds of performances in a Virtuoso Performance.

A band would have one lead and everyone else making Aid Another checks, same as for any other group skill use.

[Aeromyre]

As an opinion, I would say that the bard would make the two checks, add the result together and divide by two for the avarage. So for perform (sing) and perform (lute), the bard makes two checks. Perform (sing) is an 24 including bonuses. Perform (lute) had an 18 including bonuses. 24 + 18 = 42 / 2 = 21. Ta da.
Again an opinion.
Edit: For the band, I would use the same princible as above, but each member gets a +2 per bard for aid another.

I figured something like that. It works well enough, but maybe also a +2 for preforming the skills successfully.

He and I had an argument about bad rolls bringing the score down for the band.
Do you think if a member rolls a lower roll than the others that there should be a negative modifier?
For example a band of 5 bards rolls a 19 18 16 17 and 5 if you take the highest score and had +6 for the aid another action, is the crowd any less pleased because the one bard preformed poorly?
I think because his performance was substandard does he incur a penalty, or simply just not contribute to the band's total score?

[Aeromyre]

I believe that a Bard isn't able to do that. However, a Virtuoso is explicitly allowed to combine different kinds of performances in a Virtuoso Performance.

A band would have one lead and everyone else making Aid Another checks, same as for any other group skill use.

Well musicians sing and play guitar all the time i can't see why bards can't play an instrument and sing as well

[Siosilvar]

Well musicians sing and play guitar all the time i can't see why bards can't play an instrument and sing as well

They can. But by the Rules As Written, you only make one Perform check.

If you want to alternate Perform checks or houserule that you can average multiple checks together (as above), that's fine.

[GenPol]

I have a question to tag on to this. So my bard is trained in perform [flute] (or pungi, if you want to be specific about it.), and also has a snake that he tamed through the use of the Handle Animal skill.

The bard's show is that he can play his flute (or pungi) and have the snake slither out of a pot and dance. Would the check be based off of the bard's own perform skill (and would it be perform (flute) or perform (snake-charming)), the bard's Handle animal check to have the snake perform a trick (and is that too complicated to count as a "trick" for the purposes of Handle Animal?), or would the snake put ranks in perform [dance]?

I've been mulling over the question for a while, and haven't been able to come to any conclusions. Anybody care to clarify things?

[Aeromyre]

I have a question to tag on to this. So my bard is trained in perform [flute] (or pungi, if you want to be specific about it.), and also has a snake that he tamed through the use of the Handle Animal skill.

The bard's show is that he can play his flute (or pungi) and have the snake slither out of a pot and dance. Would the check be based off of the bard's own perform skill (and would it be perform (flute) or perform (snake-charming)), the bard's Handle animal check to have the snake perform a trick (and is that too complicated to count as a "trick" for the purposes of Handle Animal?), or would the snake put ranks in perform [dance]?

I've been mulling over the question for a while, and haven't been able to come to any conclusions. Anybody care to clarify things?

I say make rolls for each, then if they are both above 10 add +2 to the higher and if one is above 5 add -1 to the higher

EDIT: No it's not to complicated People actually do it so it's realistic

[Townopolis]

For Gen, if I were GMing the game I would boil it all down to one Perform: Snake-Charming roll. I've never seen a snake charmer in person, but I would base this ruling on the idea that your flute-playing isn't the main attraction, and it isn't really the snake's undulations. It's the illusion that you are mind-controlling the snake through the music. Your Perform roll would reflect that, and your ranks in Snake-Charming would represent how well you've polished your act.

[Edit]: If you had all three skills (flute, snake-charming, and handle-animal) I would rule that having 5+ ranks in flute and handle-animal each give a +2 synergy bonus to snake-charming. It's simpler than aiding-another yourself and having your snake do the same, making three rolls, and getting one result. As for the snake's ability to dance, I'd just rule that "dance" consumes one trick and call it fair since animals do have a limit to the total tricks they can ever learn.

I'd use aid-another checks if, for example, a druid wild-shaped himself into a snake and had his bard friend "charm" him.

[GenPol]

I say make rolls for each, then if they are both above 10 add +2 to the higher and if one is above 5 add -1 to the higher

EDIT: No it's not to complicated People actually do it so it's realistic

Ooh, yay, help. :smalltongue:

Wait, make rolls for which skills though? The snake's perform skill and the bard's perform skill? The snake's perform skill and the bard's Handle Animal skill? The bard's two perform skills? Some other combination?

And yeah I agree, I think it should be more easily doable.

EDIT: @ Lordsmoothe. Yeah, that makes sense. But what's to keep the snake from just slithering away? I admit, I don't know much about snake charming specifically, but the same thing could be applied to trained animals at the circus. The animals would need to be trained, wouldn't they? And would they need a Handle Animal check in addition to the bard's perform check in order to actually do the trick?

[Townopolis]

The bard (or hired animal trainer) would make checks to train the animal properly, but I would rule that keeping the snake in the performance would be covered by the snake charming Perform skill.

I can't remember where, but I recall reading that real-life snake charmers work by tapping their foot against the ground to keep the snake in a state of uncertainty. The snake would stay in something like "assess mode," watching the snake-charmer, sensing the vibrations in the ground, and trying to get a fix on him. The charmer would keep the snake guessing through his erratic foot-tapping. Of course, if the charmer ever slipped up he got bitten.

I guess ground vibrations are an important part of how snakes perceive the world.

-----

To return to the original topic for a bit, aside from PrCs that allow you to maintain multiple bard-songs at the same time (Warchanter is one, I think) I believe the Versatile Performer feat specifically mentions giving a bonus to perform checks when you use more than one skill in the check.

In general, and temporarily ignoring Versatile Performer, I would rule it similarly to how I would rule Gen's idea, additional performance types used by a single character give a +2 synergy bonus. A band would use aid-another actions to give +2 to their main performer and, of course, if you fail the DC 10 aid-another check you add jack diddly to the main performer's roll.

[GenPol]

That's actually really cool. It would make sense for snakes to rely on vibrations to an extent, as I imagine it's hard to see in tiny underground tunnels.

But anyway, that makes sense, thanks for the help. :smalltongue: