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View Full Version : Idea for DM PC (3.5)



Grifthin
2010-06-27, 03:41 PM
Well tonite my players almost had a party wipe. The Psion, Sorceror and Ranger where ambushed by a small group of orks. The Sorceror and Ranger got chopped into bitesized bits. The Psion managed to escape and bring some druids back to cast reincarnation. The Ranger came back as a Lizardfolk and the Sorceror came back as a Kobold (yay for him). Their gear was looted, their carriage destroyed and now the poor level 3 blighters are tracking the Orks down to get their gear back. What can I create as a DMPC to accomadate the poor buggers. I want something that will be fun to play but not useless in combat, I don't wanna overshadow them either. Any suggestions ? What do you thinks go ?

Cog
2010-06-27, 03:52 PM
Why do you need a DMPC at all? As the DM, are you not capable of adjusting the encounter difficulty instead?

CubeB
2010-06-27, 03:57 PM
To make a DM PC, you have to remember one very important thing.

You're not allowed to claim the glory. The PCs should be the ones who get to do the cool stuff, unless your character is literally the only one who can possibly do it.

What I would recommend is a utility character, like a Warforged with a Divine class. One who acts subservient to a party member. So rather than it being "The Ranger, The Psion, the Sorcerer, and Baron Von Badass" it's "The Ranger, the Psion, The Sorcerer, and the Sorcerer's Manservant."

Frog Dragon
2010-06-27, 03:59 PM
Since you didn't really specify what you want from the DMPC and it seems to be for this mission only, I'd say they could use some more tank power. As for fun, my suggestion is for a slightly comedic character.
Assuming the dmpc is level 3 as well, my first thought was a Barbarian 1/Monk 2 (You're the DM. You have the authority to kick either one of the alignment restrictions in the face.) for some angry brawler type. The guy would be fast, and happy in the frontline. Being low level, and an unarmed combatant, he doesn't need any real gear either. A high con ensures he can take damage, though the concept I'm suggesting doesn't work that well if wis is low.
The level amounts could well be switched, maybe going for Fists of Iron (complete warrior) and not concern yourself much with wis.
The character would be dealing 2d6+Str with unarmed strikes while having RAGE :smallfurious: and extra speed.
The first level feats are pretty much free and the level three feat would be fists of iron. It also works with any race.
I doubt the character would be overshadowing anything, but it can be toned down if the group is especially nonoptimizy. It's pretty simple too which is good for the DM who has a a lot of other things on his plate.
Of course, I might be going a bit too far with this, but anyway, this is just one character suggestion.
Edit: Swordsages. However, they make good points.

Thieves
2010-06-27, 04:07 PM
Don't go with the DMPC, it's got trouble and popular dissent written all over it... especially at lower levels And since you've already thrown a near TPK on them. Give them some neat race-related quirks* and scale the next encounters so they can end their enemies in stylish and potentially gory ways. Make the green bastards feel good hit of revenge.

Also, what do you mean by "blighters"? This awesomely fluffy, obscure class no one ever plays cause they simply can't go to town (2x intended)?

* if someone mentions pun-pun
then they've just Lost The Game. HARD. Please, people, it's not funny anymore.

Grifthin
2010-06-27, 04:08 PM
The party is VERY unoptimized (sorceror has both run and combat casting). They just need extra firepower, I just want something to help out. Besides, I get to play then aswell. :smallbiggrin:

* no not the blighter class. :smallbiggrin:

Darwin
2010-06-27, 04:15 PM
If you insist on using a DMPC then play a supporting class, buffbot cleric or druid, healer also works well as DMPCs (and he will definitely not steal the glory of the party :smalltongue:)

Thieves
2010-06-27, 04:15 PM
If they enjoy being effective (some people do, taking this for fun instead of e.g. RPing or treasure-hoarding, and I'm not saying it's bad) And have screwed themselves over with complete lack of common sense (hard to call that optimization), then okay. Try giving them a hint. Make the DMPC a wise man. You can fiddle around with any and all kinds of restrictions - just give him feats, give him abilities your characters Could Have thought of. If the DMPC is going to own, make him do so while describing how he gets to own without doing cheese. As in, exemplify good tactics, usage of feats or spells. Make him the teacher. If they are not tactical pros, with such a level of inefficacy they are going to need some guide to overcome stuff not CR -2.

balistafreak
2010-06-27, 04:17 PM
* if someone mentions pun-pun
then they've just Lost The Game. HARD. Please, people, it's not funny anymore.

There needs to be a Godwin's Law for Pun-Pun. Just saying.

Grifthin
2010-06-27, 04:20 PM
Sounds good Thieves. So Wisdomed based class.... monk ? (please god noooooooo :smallfrown: )

wise characters - druid, cleric and monk ?

ok, no cleric and druid. Too easy to kick ass with them.

mucat
2010-06-27, 04:36 PM
The party is VERY unoptimized (sorceror has both run and combat casting). They just need extra firepower, I just want something to help out.

They don't need more firepower. You're the DM; the encounters are under your control; you should never be saying "if only there was some way I could help them survive." There are lots of ways, even with no cheating or fudging.

Which is not to say you just scale down the encounters ("That 5th level orc shaman you already met is now 3rd level, for no particular reason" is a bad idea.) But set things up so that, if they play smart, the players can seize the advantage.

The orcs are back on their home ground, where they could grow complacent and overconfident. Make it possible for the players to ambush small groups of orcs, and get away with it if they're careful. Give them places to sneak and hide. Maybe they can trigger a rockslide to take out a larger group of orcs. And if they really need allies, dont just dump a DMPC in their laps; let them figure out a way to recruit help.

(Whether it's "we go to town and hire mercenaries" or "Hey, let's figure out a way to break free those dwarf slaves the orcs have", the players will appreciate the help more if it was their idea, not yours!)



Besides, I get to play then aswell. :smallbiggrin:

That is a terrible reason to introduce a DMPC. If the players get any sense that the person they're traveling with is "your character", then it will almost always detract from the play.

You already get to play; you've got the whole world and every NPC alive at your beck and call. If that's not enough to maje you feel like part of the game, then work on bringing your existing world to life in as many small ways as you can; don't make a character who is specifically "yours".

Knaight
2010-06-27, 04:37 PM
To make a DM PC, you have to remember one very important thing.

You're not allowed to claim the glory. The PCs should be the ones who get to do the cool stuff, unless your character is literally the only one who can possibly do it.

The following quote should be applicable to DMPCs (Its from Beet the Vandel Buster) "Always keep someone in the group who can be used as a throwaway pawn. As it turned out, that was my team's way of doing things. I...was that pawn."

arrowhen
2010-06-27, 04:55 PM
To make a DM PC, you have to remember one very important thing.

You're not allowed to claim the glory. The PCs should be the ones who get to do the cool stuff, unless your character is literally the only one who can possibly do it.

The way I like to handle that is to ask the players what kind of character they want to accompany them, stat that character up, and then just hand over the character sheet to the group and let them play it. They decide as a group what the character does in combat, they roll all the dice for it, and all I do is roleplay it -- usually for a bit of comic relief.

Murdim
2010-06-27, 05:07 PM
The main idea about DMPCs is : avoid it as much as possible. A DM-controlled character who is also a full member of the adventuring party is almost always a bad idea, what with all the obvious, unavoidable implications on internal decision-making and potential favoritism.

If your players need some additional muscle to defeat an obstacle they aren't able to overcome by themselves, they can get it from outside the party. I'm sure there's at least some friendly NPCs they could get help from. That way, the players won't have to worry about having the spotlight stolen from them, since their new allies are only temporary and situational and always stay outside of the party itself. Also, you get to "play with" your players without having the additional burden of managing a full-fledged player character alongside your responsabilities as the DM. And supporting NPCs tend to produce more plot hooks and less railroading than DMPCs. And the players will have a level of control over their interaction with their NPC allies that they simply couldn't keep over a DMPC.

Raimun
2010-06-27, 05:30 PM
No experience with DMPCs but I imagine they should be quite subtle characters. You know, perhaps not even fighting in that many battles but still helping the party.

Also, they should have good reason to help them in the first place.

Typical DMPC would be Gandalf (in Hobbit).
For an enigmatic one, think Gray Fox(/Cyborg Ninja)-ish character (in Metal Gear Solid). A guy who is somewhere around and might help you for some reason but you never know when.
Just don't make them Jeeves (in Jeeves and Wooster) and steal PCs thunder. :smallamused:

Critical
2010-06-27, 06:05 PM
Adjust the encounter difficulty instead. And Don't ambush a party of squishies with too-hard hitting guys like orcs.

No, seriously, having a DMPC sucks and is sort of weird for the players. To the players, it may seem that you're pulling even more punches than you would by adjusting the difficulty. If the guy takes PC's to the major quests, it would be kind of too simple.

If you still insist on getting a DMPC, get something unusual and that doesn't need much on the account of PC's(gear, etc.). I'd suggest a Sorcerer Pseudodragon with Arcane Disciple(Healing) and buffing spells - cool, flavourful, unusual and won't claim the spotlight and will be more of a pet to the chosen PC. Still, it'd give some responsibilities and make it seem like it's a challenge, not a freebie, because the dragon might just fly away. Though, make sure to give some love to the other PC's - giving one of them a freaking tiny dragon who can heal is super awesome, but leaving the other two with nothing - not so much. Hope that helped. :smallsmile:

Thieves
2010-06-28, 08:26 AM
Sounds good Thieves. So Wisdomed based class.... monk ? (please god noooooooo :smallfrown: )

wise characters - druid, cleric and monk ?

ok, no cleric and druid. Too easy to kick ass with them.

Errrrr... "wise" does not mean Wisdom-based. It can be anything. A factotum with a bend on psionics, maybe? So he can "tutor and teach" every party member. My point is, if you know player A has ability X, and player B has ability Y, then You Can Try (it may not be easy to pull off) to make this factotum use abilities X and Y to show the players how they can get tactically superior and in the end win. It will take skill not to make them annoyed by that, so Use With Caution.

And you know what. If they are a lizardman and a kobold now, they can probably try to infiltrate the camp and try to do something from the inside. If you see they're going to try something real stupid, then suggest this plan (by alluding, not plain saying). Educate them, if you think you are able to.

AtwasAwamps
2010-06-28, 08:31 AM
If they enjoy being effective (some people do, taking this for fun instead of e.g. RPing or treasure-hoarding, and I'm not saying it's bad) And have screwed themselves over with complete lack of common sense (hard to call that optimization), then okay. Try giving them a hint. Make the DMPC a wise man. You can fiddle around with any and all kinds of restrictions - just give him feats, give him abilities your characters Could Have thought of. If the DMPC is going to own, make him do so while describing how he gets to own without doing cheese. As in, exemplify good tactics, usage of feats or spells. Make him the teacher. If they are not tactical pros, with such a level of inefficacy they are going to need some guide to overcome stuff not CR -2.

...Be really, really careful with this. It can come off as "I am trying to teach you" or "Man you guys suck." If your players are sensitive at all, DON'T do this at all as they will simply get pissy with you.