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TechnOkami
2010-06-27, 04:06 PM
What class combination would be most appropriate for someone who can manipulate time? (think Ultimecia from FFVIII for example, and no I don't want a full recreation of her as my character to play as)

Yuki Akuma
2010-06-27, 04:09 PM
A Kineticist? They get a lot of time-based powers.

PId6
2010-06-27, 04:09 PM
Swiftblade, preferably with a bit of Celerity abuse too.

Amphetryon
2010-06-27, 04:10 PM
Zerth Cernobite (CPsi) has time manipulation shticks.

Darwin
2010-06-27, 04:11 PM
Wizard taking the Celerity line, Haste and Time Stop. Sadly, time manipulating spells and effects don't really occur before you reach high level.

I also second Swiftblade.

EvilJoe15
2010-06-27, 04:28 PM
StP Erudite. pick your spells and powers carefully.

Celerity line
Haste
Temporal Acceleration(Time Stop as a 6th level power)
Time Hop line
Time Regression
Teleport Through Time

And maybe some others I'm forgetting.

Endarire
2010-06-27, 04:50 PM
StP is Spell to Power Erudite (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a). See Complete Psionic 153 for the Erudite class.

Morph Bark
2010-06-27, 04:53 PM
If you got some 3rd-party stuff, go with Hyperconscious' Chronorebel?

It's made by the maker of the XPH too...

nedz
2010-06-27, 04:54 PM
Cleric (etc.) with the Time domain [SpC]

TechnOkami
2010-06-27, 05:11 PM
Where can you find the celerity line?

Endarire
2010-06-27, 05:13 PM
Celerity is in Player's Handbook II 105.

TechnOkami
2010-06-27, 06:29 PM
Swiftblade I generally like all around, so that's a definite yes, but as to the spell casting class, should it be an Erudite, a Zerth Cenobite, a Cleric, or a Wizard? Please be descriptive as per your choice and where I can find the information for myself aka books.

PId6
2010-06-27, 06:52 PM
Zerth Cenobite is a terrible class. Do not bother with that.

Cleric and Wizard are both pretty powerful, but Wizard gets the best time-related spells (aka Celerity), which Cleric can't access easily. Wizard also qualifies for Swiftblade while Cleric does not (without shenanigans).

StP Erudite is clearly the best choice if it's allowed though. You get the best psionic powers and the best spells, which is just insanely good.

EvilJoe15
2010-06-27, 06:53 PM
I say again, in more detail.

Spell to Power Erudite: StP is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)(Bottom of the page.); Erudite is from C. Psionic pg. #153.

The Celerity line is from PHB 2 pg. #105

Haste is From the SRD, Link Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm)

Temporal Acceleration is from the SRD, Link Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/temporalAcceleration.htm)

The Tim Hop line is from the SRD, Link Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm), and Mass Version. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHopMass.htm)

Time Regression is from the SRD, Link Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeRegression.htm)

Teleport Through Time is from the WotC site, Link Here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b)

TechnOkami
2010-06-27, 06:55 PM
Thaaaaaank you. Wait, not yet, I still have one more question. What book is swiftblade found in?

Heliomance
2010-06-27, 07:07 PM
I think Green Ronin have a book called Chronomancy: Time Magic or something of the sort, if you're alowed 3rd party.

PId6
2010-06-27, 07:08 PM
Thaaaaaank you. Wait, not yet, I still have one more question. What book is swiftblade found in?
This web enhancement.
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)

TechnOkami
2010-06-27, 07:21 PM
Alright, now, thank you all.

TechnOkami
2010-07-06, 12:09 AM
I rescind the thanks one last time to ask another question: is the variant on the erudite class specifically from the internet, or does it come from an actual book?

Kylarra
2010-07-06, 12:27 AM
the internet. Be warned that StP erudite is ridiculously cheesy by any standards and you'll want to find out your DMs interpretation on the Erudite's unique powers/day listing.

TechnOkami
2010-07-06, 12:30 AM
the internet. Be warned that StP erudite is ridiculously cheesy by any standards and you'll want to find out your DMs interpretation on the Erudite's unique powers/day listing.

Mm, especially when my GM (well, one of them) gives me a response like this:

RE Erudite: This is a variation on the base Erduite class, and I don't know where that comes from, so I cannot comment on its use.

RE Swiftblade: the combination of 3rd level arcane spellcasting and +3 BAB means that the only ways to qualify for this class are Bard 7, Sorcerer 6, Wizard 6, Wizard 5/(something with high BAB) 1, or possible substituting Erudite for either Wizard or Sorcerer. There really isn't room for martial progression here. The CA Scout has a skirmish ability that meshes with Swiftblade nicely, but it only has 3/4 BAB so you're delaying at least a level. The feat requirements probably recommend fighter.
Overall, this seems like it's less powerful than you could be by just going straight wizard, and the requirement that you cast nothing but Haste for a full level means that no GM will allow you to start with this class, and if you gain it in play you're a serious burden on your party. Finally, the capstone time stop ability (which is what you seemed primarily interested in, based on your header) comes at a minimum of ECL 16, at which point you have a maximum caster level of 12, meaning that you will have very few of the requisite 6th level spell slots, and there are much better things to spend them on. Meanwhile, a 17th level caster has access to the full Time Stop spell (lasts 1d4 rounds longer, meaning that you have time to do something productive instead of just casting another modified Haste and taking a move action), not to mention the entire suite of 9th level spells.
Finally, the Haste spell in 3.5 gives you a grand total of +1 to hit, ac, and reflex, 1 extra attack if you do a full attack (removing all your movement bonuses), and +30ft movement rate, for 1 round/level. It is very easy to get those benefits and more, for significantly better duration, by making a full martial build, or by wildshaping, or by being a lycanthrope, or using a combination of other spells. Any build that focuses completely on a single spell, no matter what it is, will fail against someone with more options or who has come to that bonus from another direction. It's called crippling overspecialization, and I could link you to the tv tropes page, but I'm not feeling sadistic tonight.

Pardon me if this makes me feel a bit down on being a time manipulating psion of doom.

Kylarra
2010-07-06, 12:41 AM
Frankly if wizard 20 is your baseline, you're ignoring a fair number of possibilities.

Time manipulation is inherently one of those powers that doesn't lend itself well to player abilities simply because of the dichotomy of either extreme overpoweredness or underpoweredness, so as a character you'll probably focus on just one specific aspect.

Swiftblade 10 is one of the few gish PrCs that's nearly universally agreed to be worth the lost caster levels, so that's saying something.

TechnOkami
2010-07-06, 12:44 AM
Frankly if wizard 20 is your baseline, you're ignoring a fair number of possibilities.

Time manipulation is inherently one of those powers that doesn't lend itself well to player abilities simply because of the dichotomy of either extreme overpoweredness or underpoweredness, so as a character you'll probably focus on just one specific aspect.

Swiftblade 10 is one of the few gish PrCs that's nearly universally agreed to be worth the lost caster levels, so that's saying something.

Hmm... ~sigh~ oh well, at least I have my ridiculous weremonk. :smallbiggrin:

Kylarra
2010-07-06, 12:49 AM
To be honest, it seems like your DM is focusing way too much on the metagame power aspects and citing other tier 1 "abuses", polymorph/wildshape, as a counter to the bonuses you'd be getting.

My suggestion is that if you like the swiftblade to go for it anyway.

PId6
2010-07-06, 12:58 AM
Swiftblade 10 is one of the few gish PrCs that's nearly universally agreed to be worth the lost caster levels, so that's saying something.
The first three lost levels are debatable. It's ultimately probably less powerful than 3 more levels of spellcasting, but it's strong enough to consider taking.

The last level isn't really worth it, since you lose 9ths, but the ability is strong and cool enough that it's a viable alternative, which is saying a lot when you're talking about 9th level spells.

Optimystik
2010-07-06, 01:49 AM
A Kineticist? They get a lot of time-based powers.

I think you meant Nomads here - they're the blokes that focus on Psychoportation.



RE Erudite: This is a variation on the base Erduite class, and I don't know where that comes from, so I cannot comment on its use.


Erudites are from Complete Psionic, but they're also available online. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060406b&page=1)


If you got some 3rd-party stuff, go with Hyperconscious' Chronorebel?

It's made by the maker of the XPH too...

This guy makes the timestream his plaything. There's few PrCs like it.

Kylarra
2010-07-06, 08:17 AM
The first three lost levels are debatable. It's ultimately probably less powerful than 3 more levels of spellcasting, but it's strong enough to consider taking.

The last level isn't really worth it, since you lose 9ths, but the ability is strong and cool enough that it's a viable alternative, which is saying a lot when you're talking about 9th level spells."Ultimately less powerful than 9th level spells" describes pretty much everything below tier 2.

PId6
2010-07-06, 09:06 AM
"Ultimately less powerful than 9th level spells" describes pretty much everything below tier 2.
Yeah. Hence why Swiftblade, while not worth the loss per se, is still unabashedly awesome in my book.