Core Rogue Help!!!!

[thefear436]

Hi, I'm going to be playing a gray elf rogue, probably in the area of lvl 2 or 3, not sure. Also, I might go human, cuz the feat really is better, I dunno, really i just need some advice. Thanks.

[Lhurgyof]

Craven's always a nice feat... What type of character are you building?

[PId6]

Ugh, core.

Aim for Assassin, since that provides pretty useful spells as well as Hide in Plain Sight. Rogue 5/Assassin 9/Rogue +6 is probably the best rogue build inside core.

Get a Ring of Blinking as soon as you can, and use splash weapons (Alchemist's Fire, Acid) once you get it. Before that, you're stuck with melee since flanking is the only other reliable way to get Sneak Attacks. Try to find a helpful wizard ally willing to cast Greater Invisibility on you.

The feat choices are really bad in core, so something with stat bonuses is probably better. Gray Elf is decent, as are Tallfellow Halflings (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfling.htm#tallfellow) and Goblins (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm).

Worthwhile feats: Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative, Two Weapon Fighting, ITWF, GTWF. Nearly everything else is trash.

[thefear436]

Melee rogue, and where is craven?

[PId6]

Melee rogue, and where is craven?
Champions of Ruin, aka not in core.

[Eldariel]

Core Rogue is really easy; max out Use Magic Device, other skills to taste and focus on either TWF (if melee) or Bows (if ranged). Melee means TWF + Weapon Finesse feats, range means PBS + Precise + Rapid.

Note that in melee, you can Sneak Attack through flanking which is easier than setting up a ranged SA (needs Hide, enemy being Denied Dex-bonus to AC through something like being Flat-Footed, balancing without 5 ranks in balance, climbing without 5 ranks in climb or such; Wand of Grease is great for generating some of those conditions and Invisibility works well too), but on the other hand, your squishy D6 butt is there in the front lines where you don't want to be.

If going melee, I'd strongly consider a more durable race like Gnome or Dwarf (though both have the pesky 20' movement speed); definitely no Elf. If going range, on the other hand, Elf works fine.


You'll definitely want to consider a 1-level dip in Shadowdancer; while the feats suck, it just so happens there are only so many good feats for you to pick in Core in the first place and as such, you can afford it relatively painlessly; Hide in Plain Sight is a godsent (though in Core, you can't beat extra senses like Tremosense, Blindsense & co. - note that only Blindsight allows them to "see" you, otherwise you still have all the benefits of "Invisibility" when hiding and thus can Sneak Attack).

Not much else to it; melee needs lots of Con, range some less but still quite a bit. You'll want Dex and Int, with Wis and Cha secondary mostly for certain skills (note that Wis also helps your otherwise-horrible Will-save) with Str being a rather safe dump stat (as you aren't gonna use Str to damage very much).


EDIT: Assassin is alright but if you want skills and Special Abilities (there's a few really nice ones), you're best off maxing our Rogue and in that case, you want only the 1-level dip from Shadowdancer to get HiPS faster.

Do you have access to the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/)?

[thefear436]

I dont know why?

[PId6]

I dont know why?
Why what? :smallconfused:

[thefear436]

Why does it matter whether I have access to the SRD or not?

[Lhurgyof]

Ugh, core.

Oh, woops, sorry. Dx
Use magic device and diplomacy are fun.

[PId6]

Why does it matter whether I have access to the SRD or not?
SRD has things that are not strictly core. If you're allowed to use things from it, then options such as Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) opens up.

[Lycanthromancer]

Martial rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantcharacterclasses.htm#rogue) is pretty good too, though you'll want to pump Strength and rely on 2-handing for damage. Oh, and as high a Con score as you can. Multiclassing with barbarian is recommended here.

[Eldariel]

In other words, SRD has a lot of useful options for your character so if it's allowed, it would make sense to utilize those options. As such we need to know if you have access to said options or not.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here's the crippling problem with the Rogue in a core-only game

There's a lot of things out there with immunity to sneak attack. And more of them show up as you level. And there is nothing you can do about this in Core.

A one-level dip in Shadowdancer is exceedingly nice. HiPS is a tremendous boon to your ability to hide, but still doesn't do anything about immunities.

If you were going ranged, I would have suggested aiming for Improved Precise Shot to negate opponent concealment modifiers, because those also shut down sneak attack.

[Khosan]

SRD has things that are not strictly core. If you're allowed to use things from it, then options such as Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) opens up.

Don't forget Greater Manyshot.

[Eldariel]

There's a lot of things out there with immunity to sneak attack. And more of them show up as you level. And there is nothing you can do about this in Core.

Well, you can switch to being an UMD Wizard in those cases. You won't be all that effective, but you've got something to do.