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Grifthin
2010-06-28, 05:29 AM
Well one of my players got reincarnated into a lizardfolk. It's got some nice bonuses (+2 con, +2 Str, -2 Int), a natural armor class boost and some decent skill bonusses - What do you guys think ? It's LA +1 - but if you buy that off it's not so bad. I'm thinking I rather like it.

Wings of Peace
2010-06-28, 05:48 AM
Well one of my players got reincarnated into a lizardfolk. It's got some nice bonuses (+2 con, +2 Str, -2 Int), a natural armor class boost and some decent skill bonusses - What do you guys think ? It's LA +1 - but if you buy that off it's not so bad. I'm thinking I rather like it.

What class is your players character playing? Or do you mean that in general?

Kaiyanwang
2010-06-28, 05:53 AM
They are good fellows for sure, but I'm not sure I wouldn't mind seeing my daughter marrying one of them.

HunterOfJello
2010-06-28, 06:00 AM
Lizard folk aren't only +1 LA, they also have 2 racial hit dice. That means that a Lizardfolk Rogue 1 is treated as a level 4 character.


Poison Dusk Lizardfolk are a great race with just +1 LA. They work better for a PC race than Lizardfolk do.

Grifthin
2010-06-28, 06:42 AM
What class is your players character playing? Or do you mean that in general?

He's playing a ranger.

Volthawk
2010-06-28, 08:41 AM
As a player, I don't like them that much. Too much RHD/LA for too little benefit.

However, as a DM, I love them. They're a monstrous race which isn't usually Evil, reptilian and have nice natural armour and HD for a CR 1 humanoid.

Skaven
2010-06-28, 09:40 AM
One of my favorite humanoid races alongside Kobolds.

I always let my players buy off racial HD though (they dont actually 'buy them off' they level up and replace the RHD with a class one) Seems to make those races fairer.

Birstel
2010-06-28, 10:10 AM
So if you get reincarnated you are effected by the LA and RHD?

Fax Celestis
2010-06-28, 10:11 AM
I like lizardfolk, but the 2 RHD/LA+1 is kind of hard to stomach. So I made some (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104775) that were LA+0 to LA+1, depending on the party's optimization.

Another_Poet
2010-06-28, 10:14 AM
My only problem with Lizardfolk is that I've never read any good fluff for them that makes them really unique or interesting.

What level is your Ranger? If 10+ I'd give him the option of dropping the racial hit dice, and then ignoring the LA+1, essentially giving it to him for free.

If he does want the RHD then allow buyoff.

If he's lower than I woulds just forbid the racial HD, essentially treating it like a 1 HD humanoid (give up racial HD for 1st level) and enforce the LA+1. But still allow buyoff.

My reasoning is that lizardfolk stats aren't going to make a real difference in his power level from 10th level onward, so the LA is not real; and at any level, racial hit dice of more of a liability than a help, so for balance purposes (on your side) and enjoyment purposes (him not getting a 3-level ECL adjustment) just drop the racial HD.

ap

Grifthin
2010-06-28, 10:54 AM
I just let him buy off the Level adjustmant and the monstrous creature hit die where replaced by ranger levels. Looks like a pretty good deal to me. (I try to be fair).

Gnaeus
2010-06-28, 11:21 AM
As written, in campaigns that don't allow free choice of templates, lizardmen are pretty decent for melee types focusing on armor class.

Unfortunately, 3.5 has few concepts that are less playable than melee types focusing on armor class.

Yora
2010-06-28, 11:23 AM
I think lizardfolk is an okay race that is perfectly playable as it is. But when you are stuck with 2 racial HD, you don't need an LA +1 on top of that.
I use them as a 2 HD, LA +0 race in my campaign.

My only problem with Lizardfolk is that I've never read any good fluff for them that makes them really unique or interesting.
This (http://www.wtfcomics.com/archive.html?365_123) is the one and only reason there are lizardfolk in my setting at all! :smallbiggrin:

Patrikc
2010-06-28, 12:16 PM
As written, in campaigns that don't allow free choice of templates, lizardmen are pretty decent for melee types focusing on armor class.


Lizardfolk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0729.html)!

lsfreak
2010-06-28, 12:22 PM
Normal lizardfolk, they're okay as a DM. As a player, the LA+RHD are murder.

Poison Dusk lizardfolk, from MM3, are really great as both DM and player though (assuming LA buyoff).

Lapak
2010-06-28, 12:48 PM
My only problem with Lizardfolk is that I've never read any good fluff for them that makes them really unique or interesting.Dunno if it works for you, or makes them more appealing, or is all that interesting, but...

Lizardman background summary in my campaign

The Lizardfolk species is among the most ancient of intelligent humanoid races in the world, notable as one of the few monstrous-appearing humanoids without a traditional animosity towards the 'civilized' races. Ritual artifacts and other bits and pieces of pre-historical lizardfolk culture may even pre-date the earliest mentions of all currently worshiped gods - a fact that is given some weight by the fact that traditional lizardfolk religion is druidic in nature rather than following a god-based priesthood. The lizardfolk themselves claim that they rose to prominence long before the dwarves emerged from beneath the earth and that a lizardwoman was present at the creation of the elves, though this is disputed by those races.

Lizardfolk tradition holds that the world was once a warmer, wetter place. Wetlands stretching across the major landmasses of the world supported a sprawling empire connected by canal systems so intricate that an individual could spend their entire lifetime aboard a boat and never travel the same stretch twice. Eventually, a great cataclysm changed the very nature of the world and the swamps retreated as the other humanoid races came to power. Among the human scholars who believe this legend, some believe that this cataclysm may have been the rise of the known gods, who then changed the earth to better support their favored races; others believe that a purely natural event was the source of the change.

Lizardfolk in the present day have societies that are considerably more primitive than most intelligent species. Scattered across the swamps and wetlands of the known world, most tribes number fewer than 300 individuals at any given time. The only widely-known nation of lizardfolk is the hunter-gatherer city-state of Ar in the Sunlit Swamp, administered by an oligarchy consisting mostly of druids and ruled by One Armed Talissin, a war-chieftain of fearsome reputation. Both the city-state and the scattered tribes are insular and care little one way or another about other humanoids; as a rule, the lizardfolk protect their swamplands fiercely but do not react aggressively to outsiders who are not damaging the area unless attacked.

Lizardfolk organizations Outside of Ar, there are not many formally organized societies among lizardfolk, but there are a few factions that have arisen in the last few centuries and may be encountered among any group or in any tribe. The Scaled Sentinels are a group who believe that lizardfolk are best served by actively discouraging outside interference, and will attempt to drive non-lizardfolk away from their lands by cunning, negotiation, or outright combat to maintain their isolation. The Sentinels train a select band of warriors as swordsages focusing on the Shadow Hand discipline. The Sentinels are strongest in the scattered swamplands, and relatively weak in the Sunlit Swamp and regions within the influence of Ar. The Sun-God's Children are a minor sect from Ar that has grown explosively in the wider world during the last few generations, passing by word of mouth between lizardfolk traveling from one encampment to another. The Children believe that traditional druidic worship has failed, and that their best hope of returning to the days of mythic glory is to petition a god who might restore the world to its former state. If the Sun can be convinced to heat up the world, they believe, the course of history can be reversed. The clerics of the Children proselytize constantly in an attempt to gain converts.

Lizardfolk adventurers are most often tribal, and either outcasts or loners seeking something in the greater world that they cannot find within the tribe. Occasionally, a tribe will assign one of its members a quest that can only be accomplished by leaving the swamp and that member either cannot complete the quest or finds that it has given them a taste for adventure. Lizardfolk adventurers from Ar are all but unknown.

Fax Celestis
2010-06-28, 12:51 PM
My only problem with Lizardfolk is that I've never read any good fluff for them that makes them really unique or interesting.

Lappy9000 came up with a pretty badass sun-worship culture for lizardfolk for d20r.


Despite the views of outsiders, who regularly cite the lizardfolk as boorish, animalistic, and crude, the greenscales have developed a unique and diverse warrior culture without straying away from their roots. Often staying to the warm marshlands out of which their race was born, lizardfolk form tribal societies, with these family groups living in encampments outside major worship centers. While the dwellings of most tribes normally consist of habitable caverns, both aboveground and submerged, the religious temples of the lizard folk are formed of massive stone cities where all tribes gather for days both special and mundane. Shrines take the form of multi-tiered stone ziggurats, positioned to always catch the sun’s rays, and are open to the public for the important daily tasks of prayer sun basking.

Such sun ceremonies, small as they may be, are vital to the lives of the lizardfolk, and these loyal sons and daughters of Semuanya venerate the radiant deity of the sun with great compassion. Both shamans and the masses weave the natural magic of their idol, and common lizardfolk principles denounce clothing and heavy armor, as they only help to separate Semuanya from his/her children. However, while cloth armor is common enough among warriors, jewelry, especially gold, are worn by almost all members of lizardfolk society in order to dutifully reflect Semuyana’s brilliance.

However, despite the love the lizardfolk bear for their creator, they fear the time when Semuyana sleeps, and many rituals and sacrifice accompany these days of darkness as the fearful lizardfolk try to awaken their slumbering deity. Even though the lizardfolk are weakest on their darkest days, an attacker on any other occasion would witness a mighty army formed of the strongest and bravest of the lizardfolk’s ranks. Alongside Semuyana’s warpriests and the dreaded Solacalli, or sun cages, that capture the rays of sun to be used against the lizardfolk’s enemies. Despite the inferior obsidian and bronze weaponry of the lizardfolk, their strength, cunning, and zeal make the sons and daughters of Semuyana a proud race not to be crossed.

It is this other bit that makes Lappy's lizardfolk into the best lizardfolk ever:

giant, unsophisticated reflectors used as primal laser cannons

Darklord Xavez
2010-06-28, 12:52 PM
Well one of my players got reincarnated into a lizardfolk. It's got some nice bonuses (+2 con, +2 Str, -2 Int), a natural armor class boost and some decent skill bonusses - What do you guys think ? It's LA +1 - but if you buy that off it's not so bad. I'm thinking I rather like it.

If you mean the Reincarnation spell, mental stats aren't changed, and there is no level adjustment, so he gets 2d8 free hp, as well as everything good about the lizardfolk, with no Int penalty or LA.
-Xavez

Jergmo
2010-06-28, 05:41 PM
If you mean the Reincarnation spell, mental stats aren't changed, and there is no level adjustment, so he gets 2d8 free hp, as well as everything good about the lizardfolk, with no Int penalty or LA.
-Xavez

Except for the fact that they are now ECL 12 due to the racial hit die.


I think lizardfolk is an okay race that is perfectly playable as it is. But when you are stuck with 2 racial HD, you don't need an LA +1 on top of that.
I use them as a 2 HD, LA +0 race in my campaign.

This (http://www.wtfcomics.com/archive.html?365_123) is the one and only reason there are lizardfolk in my setting at all! :smallbiggrin:

Level adjustment and RHD have nothing to do with one another - the lizardfolk has a +1 level adjustment because it receives +2 Str, +2 Con, etc.

Yora
2010-06-29, 02:51 AM
Yes, but you also lose two levels you could put into fighter, barbarian, or sorcerer. Racial HD are not worth the same as class levels.
A lizardfolk character without class levels is very similar to power to a 2nd level fighter, but much more weaker than a 3rd level fighter.
The things he loses from not having two class levels, and the things he gains from being a lizardfolk, are about equal in my oppinion.

sofawall
2010-06-29, 03:48 AM
Level adjustment and RHD have nothing to do with one another...

This is not true.

LibraryOgre
2010-06-29, 04:46 PM
I don't mind them, but they're one of those races I have no trouble saying "Just ignore the racial HD." Ogres, not so much... they're big buggers, no matter the LA. But Lizardfolk make just as much sense having RHD as not.

Il_Vec
2010-06-29, 04:57 PM
A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.
(...)
The reincarnated creature gains all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn’t automatically speak the language of the new form.


The adjustments as found below are a table that only lists +2 STR and CON for lizardfolk. LA and HD are not taken into consideration when using the Reincarnate spell. But since it gains a lot of bonuses, the DM might warrant a +1 LA, maybe. Keep in mind that he does lose a level or hit dice by being reincarnated.

Opinion-wise, I love the Lizardfolk. I play one currently, but as the RHD and LA seemed harsh, my DM approved me playing as an Dragonborn Orc and calling him lizardfolk.:smallsmile:

Optimator
2010-06-29, 05:27 PM
Lizardfolk always remind me of that one prestige class in Savage Species. I forget what it's called, but I remember it being kinda fun, if not very powerful.

Volthawk
2010-06-29, 05:28 PM
Lizardfolk always remind me of that one prestige class in Savage Species. I forget what it's called, but I remember it being kinda fun, if not very powerful.

Scaled Horror?

Optimator
2010-06-29, 05:51 PM
THat's the one.

Johanas
2010-06-30, 10:26 AM
Which begs the question...was Scaled Horror ever updated to 3.5? Even as a homebrew?

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-07-01, 02:33 PM
This is not true.Gotta disagree with ya


The adjustments as found below are a table that only lists +2 STR and CON for lizardfolk. LA and HD are not taken into consideration when using the Reincarnate spell.Good example.

Akal Saris
2010-07-01, 02:57 PM
Lizardfolk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0729.html)!

Won't somebody think of the lizardchildren?!

BlueWizard
2010-07-01, 03:55 PM
Sounds cool. LA's aren't bad. As I always say the fun is in the character.