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TabletopNuke
2010-06-28, 05:13 PM
This is kinda like that character background thing (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Races_of_War_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29/Warriors_with_Style#The_Failure_of_Feats) from Races of War. This was the result of pondering the relative effectiveness of a military grunt, and comparing it to their actual training and required skill set. This will boost up the power of the characters a little bit, but since it's spread over numerous fields and everyone gets one, I hope it's not too unbalancing. Especially since I'm planning on making damage more influential.

Healing magic is virtually nonexistent in Breakdown (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7328473#post7328473). I will be altering the damage system as well, making hit-point loss much more influential. However, this poses a problem at lower levels, especially for the low-HD classes. While the setting does stress strategy and diplomacy over "kick in the door" play, having 6 hit points when being at 1/2 health gives you a penalty is pretty harsh. I'm hoping that this addition will help characters survive 1st level (or maybe they should start at higher level like in Dark Sun?)

A background trait represents where a character has come from and what their lifestyle is like. It can also be a good starting point for role-playing. A player selects a background when creating a character and cannot be changed after character creation.

Here's a few samples. How do they look? All about the same amount of benefit? I want to add lots more, and if anyone has suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Athlete:
Whether you preformed hard labor growing up or received formal training and joined athletic competitions, you've grown adroit and enduring.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Swim checks, which are always class skills for you. You gain Endurance as a bonus feat.

Child Soldier:
You grew up on the battlefield. You know how to survive and you know how to kill, but you come off as paranoid and unfeeling to those who don't understand what you've endured.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Listen, Spot, Search, and Survival checks, which are always class skills for you, along with a -2 penalty on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. You also gain a +2 bonus to Initiative and Weapon Focus as a bonus feat

Educated:
You did well in school and went on to pursue higher education. Your studies have paid off, making you a treasure trove of information.
Benefit: You have acquired a great deal of knowledge over the years, and have picked up many odd facts. You gain a +1 bonus on Concentration checks and a number of Knowledge skills equal to your Int modifier. In addition, you gain the Lore ability. This functions identically to Bardic Knowledge, although you use your character level as your effective bard level.

Feral Upbringing:
You grew up in the wild, living by the law of survival of the fittest. You know how to stalk prey and avoid predators, and have little to no knowledge of the nonsense of "civilized" beings.
Benefit: You gain Endurance as a bonus feat, and are treated as having Weapon Focus for all natural weapons you possess (including unarmed strikes). You gain a +2 bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks, which area always class skills for you, along with a -2 penalty on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Information checks. You start off with knowledge of only your native tongue (if any), and must buy ranks in Speak Language to learn more. You are also illiterate, and must spend 2 skill points to learn how to read. You start with no equipment outside of what you can craft from found supplies.
Note: This origin trait is generally unsuitable for creatures ill-equipped for a feral lifestyle, such as humans. The DM may bar such characters from taking this origin trait, suggesting they take Street Rat instead.

Military Training:
You joined the armed forces as soon as you were old enough. You received instruction in unarmed combat and grueling training in how to resist fear.
Benefit: You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and a +1 bonus on Heal and Survival checks, which are always class skills for you. You may chose to treat melee attacks made with guns or light, bladed simple weapons as unarmed strikes when. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on saves and checks made to resist fear effects, including Intimidate and torture.

Social Butterfly:
Charming and confident, social interaction has always come naturally to you.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks, which are always class skills for you. Should you ever gain the Leadership Feat (or an equivalent ability), your leadership score is increased by 1. In addition, you gain +1 bonus to Will saves.

Street Rat:
You've spent time living on the streets or similarly derelict conditions. You braved filthy environments and had to steal to survive.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on Bluff, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (Local), and Sleight of Hand checks, which are always class skills for you. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on saves made to resist poison and disease.

Debihuman
2010-06-29, 12:48 PM
If this is only usable in your Breakdown game, I can't judge whether it's any good. For standard 3.5 it is overpowered.

Have you checked out Character Traits from Unearthed Arcana? They are reprinted here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm

Traits should only add +1 to ONE skill. If you get a +2 bonus to one skill, you get a -1 penalty in another.

Your background traits are overpowered as they allow you to gain both feats and more than +4 in total skill points. Normally feats add +2 to two skills.


Debby

For Valor
2010-06-30, 02:13 AM
If this is only usable in your Breakdown game, I can't judge whether it's any good. For standard 3.5 it is overpowered.

Have you checked out Character Traits from Unearthed Arcana? They are reprinted here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm

Traits should only add +1 to ONE skill. If you get a +2 bonus to one skill, you get a -1 penalty in another.

Your background traits are overpowered as they allow you to gain both feats and more than +4 in total skill points. Normally feats add +2 to two skills.


Debby

No. Bad bad bad.

a) Bad balance point (the feats that add +2 to two skills are awful, and nearly never taken)
b) Traits of the +1/-1 kind don't do anything useful, really, and are just for people who want to add more words to their character sheet.
c) Most of these traits are totally fine, balance-wise. They don't change up things much at all. There are a couple that are overpowered, but most are OK. The only problem is that they're bland...

A run-down: (I usually compare the background traits I see to 2 main traits from F&K--the one where you get your stuff masterworked for free, and the one where you can talk to animals)

1. Athlete. Basically endurance as a free feat (the +1 nonsense is extra bookkeeping... why even have it there?), which is definitely not as awesome or flavorful as talking to animals.

2. Child Soldier. Get rid of those annoying +1 bonuses to skill checks. They're just bothersome, and hardly helpful. The +2 Init and Weapon Focus is pretty decent. I don't think F&K has anything like this.

3. Educated. All I really care about is that synthesis of Bardic Knowledge that substitutes for any knowledge check. Just put that in (more +1 bonuses... tsk tsk), and expand on the knowledge check more. Say "You can use the Bardic Knowledge ability as the SRD Bard, except you use your IntMod isntead of your ChaMod. Your HD count as your Bard level," or something along those lines. That way, by RAW, the ability is functional and useful.

4. Feral Upbringing. Firstly, this is already covered by the "talks-with-animals" background trait. I suppose you could include another one, but that's a flavor clash. And honestly, if you lived with lions, you wouldn't learn how to punch better... it just doesn't make any sense. The skill bonus can be synthesized from some other background trait--get rid of this one.

5. Military Training. I'm pretty sure there was something like this, flavor-wise, from F&K. Make it "Grunt Militia Volunteer" so it's slightly separate from everything else. After all, grunts went for hand-to-hand combat when necessary... I think... maybe. >.>

To make life easier (and since it won't change much of the game effect), change the whole light blade and guns and stuff effect to something like: "You may treat light or smaller simple weapons as unarmed strikes when you choose." This will prevent hassle as to whether something is 'beneficial' or not, and you might be able to get an opponent to perform an AoO on you when you want them to. I dunno. Just... tactics.

6. Social Butterfly. Alright, everyone hates the Leadership Feat and the use of the Command Score to get cohorts. Also, +1s to skill checks are annoying, and that Will save doesn't seem to have a place. Finally, this isn't even a background. I don't see a reason to have this--pitch it.

7. Street Rat. Um... dude... there's a background trait that's called "Street Rat", and it's far better than this. It doesn't have those annoying +1-to-a-skill-check things, and it includes immunity to classic diseases, not just a minor little +2 bonus.

Get rid of numbers 1, 4, 6, and 7.

Get rid of the minor skill bonuses in 2 and 3, and make the bonuses +2 instead of +1 for number 5. Then follow the edits for 3 and 5.

That'll leave you with a background of: "Trained to move in groups of 20 men without support", "Really good at knowing stuff", and "Always on edge".

Those are pretty nice background traits. Nice work.

TabletopNuke
2010-06-30, 08:36 PM
If this is only usable in your Breakdown game, I can't judge whether it's any good. For standard 3.5 it is overpowered.
Yeah, I doubt this would work so well for standard. As I mentioned at the beginning, Breakdown will be much harder at early levels. Other than the absence of healing magic, I'm thinking there will be some kind of penalty when you hit 50% health, and a bigger one at 25% health. 1st level PCs definitely need some kind of boost.

Have you checked out Character Traits from Unearthed Arcana? They are reprinted here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm

Traits should only add +1 to ONE skill. If you get a +2 bonus to one skill, you get a -1 penalty in another.

Your background traits are overpowered as they allow you to gain both feats and more than +4 in total skill points. Normally feats add +2 to two skills.
Yes I have seen the UA stuff (use that book all the time). Do I need to make it clearer in the introduction that these aren't meant to be traits like in UA? They are a lot more powerful.

c) Most of these traits are totally fine, balance-wise. They don't change up things much at all. There are a couple that are overpowered, but most are OK. The only problem is that they're bland...
What do you specifically mean by bland? Breakdown is a kinda hard sci-fi setting, so things like talking to animals don't have much place there. Which ones are overpowered?

A run-down: (I usually compare the background traits I see to 2 main traits from F&K--the one where you get your stuff masterworked for free, and the one where you can talk to animals)
F&K? This isn't meant to match up with the traits from the other site. It's a unique system. Some parts of the "Warriors with Style" thing didn't fit quite right. For example, the Street Rat one. Complete disease immunity from living on the streets isn't very realistic. You might be a bit more resistant, though (assuming you're not malnourished).

1. Athlete. Basically endurance as a free feat (the +1 nonsense is extra bookkeeping... why even have it there?), which is definitely not as awesome or flavorful as talking to animals.

2. Child Soldier. Get rid of those annoying +1 bonuses to skill checks. They're just bothersome, and hardly helpful. The +2 Init and Weapon Focus is pretty decent. I don't think F&K has anything like this.
So +1 bonuses are out? What about bumping them up to +2 and removing some of the benefits (fewer skills affected, ect)?

3. Educated. All I really care about is that synthesis of Bardic Knowledge that substitutes for any knowledge check. Just put that in (more +1 bonuses... tsk tsk), and expand on the knowledge check more. Say "You can use the Bardic Knowledge ability as the SRD Bard, except you use your IntMod isntead of your ChaMod. Your HD count as your Bard level," or something along those lines. That way, by RAW, the ability is functional and useful.
*Flips through PHB to double-check* Yep, Bardic Knowledge already uses Int
. Could you clarify what you mean by expanding?

4. Feral Upbringing. Firstly, this is already covered by the "talks-with-animals" background trait. I suppose you could include another one, but that's a flavor clash. And honestly, if you lived with lions, you wouldn't learn how to punch better... it just doesn't make any sense. The skill bonus can be synthesized from some other background trait--get rid of this one.As I mentioned earlier in the reply, this isn't meant to supplement the other background thing. Talking with animals doesn't fit Breakdown at all.

As a deconstruction setting, Breakdown would realistically portray feral life. Feral humans usually don't live very long, are are riddled with parasites. They also have major developmental problems, little to no speech, and can't be successfully integrated into normal life.

This background was intended for other races I haven't statted up yet. Not all sentient beings will live in civilizations like humans, some live simply as intelligent predators. A lifetime of living of one's own stealth and hunting ability would certainly help to develop such skills.

5. Military Training. I'm pretty sure there was something like this, flavor-wise, from F&K. Make it "Grunt Militia Volunteer" so it's slightly separate from everything else. After all, grunts went for hand-to-hand combat when necessary... I think... maybe. >.>

To make life easier (and since it won't change much of the game effect), change the whole light blade and guns and stuff effect to something like: "You may treat light or smaller simple weapons as unarmed strikes when you choose." This will prevent hassle as to whether something is 'beneficial' or not, and you might be able to get an opponent to perform an AoO on you when you want them to. I dunno. Just... tactics.Alright, I'll reword it.

6. Social Butterfly. Alright, everyone hates the Leadership Feat and the use of the Command Score to get cohorts. Also, +1s to skill checks are annoying, and that Will save doesn't seem to have a place. Finally, this isn't even a background. I don't see a reason to have this--pitch it.
I've actually heard from some people that they love Leadership. I could bump the bonues to +2 and get rid of the Will bonus. Also if it doesn't seem "backgroundy' enough I can re-fluff it (wasn't super happy with it anyway).

7. Street Rat. Um... dude... there's a background trait that's called "Street Rat", and it's far better than this. It doesn't have those annoying +1-to-a-skill-check things, and it includes immunity to classic diseases, not just a minor little +2 bonus.As mentioned above, total immunity to disease wouldn't be very appropriate. I could also bump up the bonuses here. If I did that should I remove Gather Information from the list?

Thanks for such in depth critique!

imp_fireball
2010-07-01, 01:29 AM
If you want only a bonus, modern provided this with 'occupations' - you could take from those rules. Otherwise, you should make them traits, flaws or feats.

As for social butterfly, +1 to will saves doesn't make sense. Because you're good with people, you have greater will power?

Milskidasith
2010-07-01, 01:45 AM
I mostly resent the notion that humans are incapable of living in the wild; humans have plenty of advantages in the wild (tool making, intelligence, and endurance, as a simple example).

Rithaniel
2010-07-01, 05:58 AM
Yeah, I doubt this would work so well for standard. As I mentioned at the beginning, Breakdown will be much harder at early levels. Other than the absence of healing magic, I'm thinking there will be some kind of penalty when you hit 50% health, and a bigger one at 25% health. 1st level PCs definitely need some kind of boost.

You realize that feats didn't exist in 2nd edition, yes? The way things were built, they didn't need anything like them, pretty much, but then they moved into 3rd, made them, and added them into the game, but they made them overwhelmingly conservative in their effects, so as to not offend anyone. After a couple of years, though, people started figuring out that this concept, of 'feats', actually had too little usage in it's current style, and so, people started trying to make better feats, so that they would make the guys who are so reliant upon them have nicer things. Now, feats have a massive impact on the game with drastic mechanical changes, and people are happier. Course, if you took 'modern' feats, which carry such weight, and applied them to 2nd edition, the game very well might crash like a Windows 95 after someone put peanut butter in the hard drive. Course, these relevant feats are all but absolutely crucial to 3.5e.

Moral of the story: If you're introducing a large change to something, (1) make it noticable, or it won't be used, and (2) it doesn't matter how it effects the original game, because you are introducing a change, thereby making this be something different than the original game.


Yes I have seen the UA stuff (use that book all the time). Do I need to make it clearer in the introduction that these aren't meant to be traits like in UA? They are a lot more powerful.

Yeah, UA Traits are never used. Except in extreme cases.


What do you specifically mean by bland? Breakdown is a kinda hard sci-fi setting, so things like talking to animals don't have much place there. Which ones are overpowered?

So, in a hard sci-fi you can't have a seemingly unintelligent species have a language of their own? Isn't that concept found in almost every imaginable genre of 'fiction'? How can that not have much place there?


F&K? This isn't meant to match up with the traits from the other site. It's a unique system. Some parts of the "Warriors with Style" thing didn't fit quite right. For example, the Street Rat one. Complete disease immunity from living on the streets isn't very realistic. You might be a bit more resistant, though (assuming you're not malnourished).

lol, n00b.

Something being realistic doesn't matter in crunch. Besides, when it comes to resiliance against disease, that translates to your immune system being constantly prepared and ready for the next legion or infection to come. It would be robust enough that it wouldn't off-handed go "nat 1, lol, whoops, you have AIDS". If you still think that immunity to disease is foolish, or whatever, of course, why not get the end result and your desire for realism to meet half-way, and allow the character to take 10 on saves against poison and disease (or just disease :P).


So +1 bonuses are out? What about bumping them up to +2 and removing some of the benefits (fewer skills affected, ect)?

Only bonus anybody will ever notice is a +3. If you want this to be noticable skill boosts, make it be +3. If you would rather avoid a +3 to something, then just make these be non-numeric bonuses, such as 'immunity to fear effects' or 'always stabilizes when below 0 hp'.


As I mentioned earlier in the reply, this isn't meant to supplement the other background thing. Talking with animals doesn't fit Breakdown at all.

As a deconstruction setting, Breakdown would realistically portray feral life. Feral humans usually don't live very long, are are riddled with parasites. They also have major developmental problems, little to no speech, and can't be successfully integrated into normal life.

This background was intended for other races I haven't statted up yet. Not all sentient beings will live in civilizations like humans, some live simply as intelligent predators. A lifetime of living of one's own stealth and hunting ability would certainly help to develop such skills.
Alright, I'll reword it.

Ah, yet another world where humans are the 'normal ones'. That gets kind of boring, after a while.

As a side note, Milskidasith is absolutely correct. Humans are likely, on the Earth, the single most overwhelmingly adept species at survival. It doesn't matter what happens, if there is a way, intelligent species will survive and out-live everything else.

For Valor
2010-07-01, 03:27 PM
Unimportant things.

OH MY GOD I KNOW YOU!!!! YOU'RE THE GUY THAT MADE THE GRAVITY WARRIOR CLASS!!!!!

-*Respect*-

On a sidenote, responses:

Blandess: I mean "bland" as in, you gave some skill check bonuses and a quick feat to some of these backgruonds and called them good... that's really not the crunch that a background should merit.

F&K: Frank Trollman and Keith [Something]. They wrote "Races of War". Also, see below for "Street Rat".

+1 Bonuses: As Rith said, +3 is all that's really noticeable. Especially if you plan on running a sci-fi campaign where stuff like pendant of obnoxious spellcraft check bonuses doesn't exist. You could go for "balance" by cutting down the number of skills it affects--I suggest about 3 apiece, more if you're giving them to dumb skills like "Jump" and fewer if you're giving them to stuff that's really important like Abuse Magic Device, Spot, and Listen.

Bard Check Expansion: I mean that you need to adjust the RAW. Right now, it's a lot like the rebuke abilty of a Dread Necromancer, where (by RAW) he can't actually use his rebuke ability. You need to see "Can use Bardic Knowledge as a Bard of your HD," or something. It's not really expanding, just clarifying.

My bad on the IntMod v. ChaMod thing...

Feral Upbringing: Well, before I argue anything that Rith hasn't already said, I guess I'd need to see the races. I mean, if you're planning on making a race that lives in the forest, speaks very poorly, and has limited intelligence, you might as well just stat up the race and lose the background. That race could have their native tongue, and then something ridiculously annoying like -4 Int, to discourage anybody from wasting their time getting an intelligence over 11.

Also, that whole thing about "not having good equipment" is a dangerous idea. Unless people who play that race can get equipment fast, they'll usually pale in comparison to the rest of the players. Honestly, if a member of this race starts adventuring, they'll probably be able to get their hands on useful gear somehow. Let them keep their WBL, or else no one will take this trait. Like... ever.

Social Butterfly Stuff: OK, first of all, only the people who see how annoyingly abusable leadership is hate it. The people who ignore that, work around it, or who are just inept don't hate the feat.

Secondly, Leadership score increases are part of "Royalty of a Fallen Nation". You could just take that background, change the fluff, and go on. Honestly, "social butterfly" is the farthest thing from a background. Maybe you could say "Daddy was a politician", "Daddy was a con-man", or "Daddy was a bad*ss space hero". Something like that. As for the Leadership score... well, if you really want to keep it, go for +2.

Street Rat: Immunity might not be appropriate, but it's the right balance level. Maybe, instead of giving them immunity to everything, you can have your character pick 5 diseases to be immune to and get a +4 to everything else... but that's bookkeeping. I'd mix what you said and what Rith put in--give them +3 to saves against disease and poison; they've got a crazy-awesome defense system in their body, and then let them take 10 on checks against disease. That should be +65% chance of avoiding disease, which is actually totally cool (I vaguely remember that being the statistical difference between East/West Berlin during disease studies right after the Berlin Wall was taken down. The people in East Berlin actually were better off disease-wise than the people in West Berlin. Funny..).

TabletopNuke
2010-07-02, 08:58 PM
If you want only a bonus, modern provided this with 'occupations' - you could take from those rules. Otherwise, you should make them traits, flaws or feats.

As for social butterfly, +1 to will saves doesn't make sense. Because you're good with people, you have greater will power?
I took another look at Occupations (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/occupations.html) in the D20Modern SRD. These look like an excellent starting point. Perhaps I should try adapting them to 3.5?

Kay, I wasn't sure about the Will save thing either. I'll nix it when I rewrite all the suggested changes I use.

Moral of the story: If you're introducing a large change to something, (1) make it noticable, or it won't be used, and (2) it doesn't matter how it effects the original game, because you are introducing a change, thereby making this be something different than the original game.
Alright! Thanks for the advice.

So, in a hard sci-fi you can't have a seemingly unintelligent species have a language of their own? Isn't that concept found in almost every imaginable genre of 'fiction'? How can that not have much place there?
While different animals do have their own language, there's a ton of variation, and being very familiar with one language (say dog language) does not mean you'll be able to understand another (for example horse behavior, which is quite different). An ability to communicate with any species of animal, regardless of your familiarity with the species, is a little bit of a stretch for my taste. A bonus to Handle Animal isn't out of the question, though.

Something being realistic doesn't matter in crunch.This setting is intended to be a deconstruction, so realism (of a sort) is my intention here. This will be an RP-heavy setting (much more apparent once I have more fluff), so I hope that will help with any blandness.

Only bonus anybody will ever notice is a +3. If you want this to be noticable skill boosts, make it be +3. If you would rather avoid a +3 to something, then just make these be non-numeric bonuses, such as 'immunity to fear effects' or 'always stabilizes when below 0 hp'.
+3, really? So racial bonuses are too low? Why is is that bonuses are always even numbers anyway?

Ah, yet another world where humans are the 'normal ones'. That gets kind of boring, after a while.
I'm hoping that the deconstruction aspect of the setting will help breathe fresh life into the concept. On the other hand, this would lead players to choose less "ordinary" creatures as their PCs. This makes sense if you think about how ordinary people are much less equipped to be adventurers than those with supernatural/cybernetic/ect abilities, and would make up the minority of such groups.

Blandess: I mean "bland" as in, you gave some skill check bonuses and a quick feat to some of these backgruonds and called them good... that's really not the crunch that a background should merit.I wasn't too happy with the flavor either. And that is what I seek the help of good people on the forums.

+1 Bonuses: As Rith said, +3 is all that's really noticeable. Especially if you plan on running a sci-fi campaign where stuff like pendant of obnoxious spellcraft check bonuses doesn't exist. You could go for "balance" by cutting down the number of skills it affects--I suggest about 3 apiece, more if you're giving them to dumb skills like "Jump" and fewer if you're giving them to stuff that's really important like Abuse Magic Device, Spot, and Listen.
Yeah, I think I'll cut down on skills for the important ones. Also there will be skill-boosting items, just tech based for the most part, as opposed to magic.

Bard Check Expansion: I mean that you need to adjust the RAW. Right now, it's a lot like the rebuke abilty of a Dread Necromancer, where (by RAW) he can't actually use his rebuke ability. You need to see "Can use Bardic Knowledge as a Bard of your HD," or something. It's not really expanding, just clarifying.Can do! Thanks.

Feral Upbringing: Well, before I argue anything that Rith hasn't already said, I guess I'd need to see the races. I mean, if you're planning on making a race that lives in the forest, speaks very poorly, and has limited intelligence, you might as well just stat up the race and lose the background. That race could have their native tongue, and then something ridiculously annoying like -4 Int, to discourage anybody from wasting their time getting an intelligence over 11.

Also, that whole thing about "not having good equipment" is a dangerous idea. Unless people who play that race can get equipment fast, they'll usually pale in comparison to the rest of the players. Honestly, if a member of this race starts adventuring, they'll probably be able to get their hands on useful gear somehow. Let them keep their WBL, or else no one will take this trait. Like... ever.
I'm having a little trouble designing the more monstrous races, so it's slow going. I don't want them all to look like patchwork offspring of Earth's species. They need to be suitably alien. Also, feral races don't need to be unintelligent. Ants might be considered far more "civilized" than solitary creatures with far more intelligence, like bears or tigers. I was thinking that everyone gets a background, and Feral is just the default background for those kinds of creatures.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll leave out the "no equipment" thing.

Social Butterfly Stuff: OK, first of all, only the people who see how annoyingly abusable leadership is hate it. The people who ignore that, work around it, or who are just inept don't hate the feat.

Secondly, Leadership score increases are part of "Royalty of a Fallen Nation". You could just take that background, change the fluff, and go on. Honestly, "social butterfly" is the farthest thing from a background. Maybe you could say "Daddy was a politician", "Daddy was a con-man", or "Daddy was a bad*ss space hero". Something like that. As for the Leadership score... well, if you really want to keep it, go for +2.I'm not dead set on the leadership thing, I just wasn't sure what other benefits to give. Also I'm not using the ones from Races of War.

Thanks everyone!

TabletopNuke
2010-07-09, 07:31 PM
I tried reworking a few of these with more influence from the D20 Modern occupations (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/occupations.html). I'm still not set on a power level for these, either.

I know you guys said I should do a bigger skill bonus, but D20 Modern does +1. What do you guys think?

Athlete:
Whether you preformed hard labor growing up or received formal training and joined athletic competitions, you've grown adroit and enduring.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +1 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Balance, Climb, Jump, Ride, Swim, Tumble. You gain either Endurance or Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

Educated:
You did well in school and went on to pursue higher education.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +1 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Concentration, Knowledge (Any), Speak Language. You can use the Bardic Knowledge as a bard of your HD.

Military:
You joined the armed forces as soon as you were old enough. You received instruction in unarmed combat and grueling training in how to resist fear.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +1 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Climb, Hide, Heal, Move Silently, Survival, Swim. You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and a +2 bonus on saves and checks made to resist fear effects, including Intimidate and torture.

Streets:
You've spent time living on the streets or similarly derelict conditions. You braved filthy environments and had to steal to survive.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +1 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Bluff, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (Local), Move Silently, Sleight of Hand. You gain a +3 bonus on saves made to resist poison and disease.

For Valor
2010-07-09, 11:48 PM
Athlete: Those skills are all used minimally. Make those bonuses +2.

Educated: Only choosing 2 skills? And they're not all that useful? Yeah, +2 to these babies too.

Military: Hide and Move Silently are the only things I'm worried about here... I also don't see why the military makes you hide and move silently. Are you part of a stealth organization? I'd give a +2 to Jump, Climb, Heal, Survival, and Swim OR +2 to Hide, Move Silently (since they go hand in hand... you can't give one a bonus without giving the other a bonus), and then Surivival/Heal (I'm not sure which). That'll make them either "I was a soldier" or "I was a minor black ops".

Streets: For a +3 to Disease/Poison as your major benefit, I'd make ALL those bonuses +2. Even Hide and Move Silently. I'd even up the Poison/Disease bonus to +4 or +5 and keep those +2 skill bonuses.

Don't use the d20 modern occupation thing. Occupations in d20 modern are like character traits in d20 fantasy; they're stupid. Those bonuses NEED to be +2 or higher. Go for +2 as your main skill bonus, since the Skill Focus feat is still available, and you'll still have skill-boost items.

imp_fireball
2010-07-10, 05:02 AM
Occupations in d20 modern are like character traits in d20 fantasy; they're stupid.

True.

Also, they give static wealth rather then something you can go to and earn money for.

For 3.5, I wouldn't call them occupations - maybe just 'career backgrounds' or 'work experience' and an indication that you are no longer employed in that area (you might have another job at the time a campaign begins, but that would be non-mechanical role playing).

Actually working would be a profession check with the exception that profession always involves running your own business rather then working for someone else. Working for someone else means you become that person's hired labor functioning on a salary and involves a lot more usage of different skills.

TabletopNuke
2010-07-15, 12:17 AM
Thanks for the feedback, guys! I made the suggested changes. Valor, were you saying the +2 bonus should apply to all the skills, not just two selected from the list?
(spoilered to save space)Athlete:
Whether you preformed hard labor growing up or received formal training and joined athletic competitions, you've grown adroit and enduring.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +2 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Balance, Climb, Jump, Ride, Swim, Tumble. You gain either Endurance or Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

Educated:
You did well in school and went on to pursue higher education.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +2 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Concentration, Knowledge (Any), Speak Language. You can use the Bardic Knowledge as a bard of your HD.

Military:
You joined the armed forces as soon as you were old enough. You received instruction in unarmed combat and grueling training in how to resist fear.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +2 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Climb, Heal, Survival, Swim. You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and a +2 bonus on saves and checks made to resist fear effects, including Intimidate and torture.

Streets:
You've spent time living on the streets or similarly derelict conditions. You braved filthy environments and had to steal to survive.
Benefit: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If you select a skill that is already a class skill, you receive a +2 competence bonus on checks using that skill. Bluff, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (Local), Move Silently, Sleight of Hand. You gain a +4 bonus on saves made to resist poison and disease.

Any other suggestions for character backgrounds?