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View Full Version : [3.5] Wings of Flurry - Overpowered? My player wants to take it...



Scorpions__
2010-06-28, 11:04 PM
Player just asked if they can take this spell, I'm not sure what book it's from.

Basically as a standard action, his sorcerer could deal 1d6/caster level damage to everyone within 30ft and possibly daze everyone for one round as well. It's a fourth level spell.

What do you think? The dazing seems really powerful for a 4th level spell to me.





DM[F]R

Marriclay
2010-06-28, 11:08 PM
It's from Races of The Dragon, and while not particualrly underpowered, it's not a game breaker either (well, I may be thinking of the wrong one. I suggest reading the spell for yourself and deciding)

DragoonWraith
2010-06-28, 11:12 PM
Wings of Flurry is a very good spell, but it's also Sorcerer-only and hardly a game-breaker. It's a cool bonus for the Sorcerer, who is otherwise pretty much strictly inferior to the Wizard. In a game of moderate optimization, it shouldn't be a problem - it will be a neat trick and a powerful ability, but nothing encounter-dominating. In a game of S&B Fighters and Truenamers, it will, of course, be overpowered, but then so would the Sorcerer in general.

satorian
2010-06-28, 11:15 PM
Ask yourself: is it more powerful than Black Tentacles? No? Then it is just on the better end of spells at level 4. Note that this still puts it well below the true offenders at 4th level like Polymorph. Remember, 4th level spells are the beginning of superhero casters. Wings of Flurry is a good spell, but there is no point in banning it and not like half of core with it.

Touchy
2010-06-28, 11:29 PM
Ask yourself: is it more powerful than Black Tentacles? No? Then it is just on the better end of spells at level 4. Note that this still puts it well below the true offenders at 4th level like Polymorph. Remember, 4th level spells are the beginning of superhero casters. Wings of Flurry is a good spell, but there is no point in banning it and not like half of core with it.

Well besides for the fact the DM doesn't have it, ofcourse. :smallamused:

PId6
2010-06-28, 11:34 PM
Pretty much as everyone else had said. Wings of Flurry is one of the few good blasting spells, and is awesome simply because wizards can't have it. Sorcerers do need nice things too.

Note, Wings of Cover from the same book is quite a bit more powerful, and should at least be houseruled to not work on area spells (which is probably RAI, but not RAW).

Scorpions__
2010-06-28, 11:39 PM
Pretty much as everyone else had said. Wings of Flurry is one of the few good blasting spells, and is awesome simply because wizards can't have it. Sorcerers do need nice things too.

Note, Wings of Cover from the same book is quite a bit more powerful, and should at least be houseruled to not work on area spells (which is probably RAI, but not RAW).

He asked about that too, as well as Snake's Switness and the Mass version of the same.





DM[F]R

tyckspoon
2010-06-28, 11:42 PM
Note, Wings of Cover from the same book is quite a bit more powerful, and should at least be houseruled to not work on area spells (which is probably RAI, but not RAW).

? It doesn't, at least not completely- you get an AC bonus/Reflex save bonus against it instead. If you find an area attack that doesn't use a Reflex save or an attack roll (Cold/Electric-type psionic blasting comes to mind) it will ignore Wings of Cover entirely.

PId6
2010-06-28, 11:42 PM
? It doesn't, at least not completely- you get an AC bonus/Reflex save bonus against it instead. If you find an area attack that doesn't use a Reflex save or an attack roll (Cold/Electric-type psionic blasting comes to mind) it will ignore Wings of Cover entirely.
It grants you complete cover, so most AoEs besides spreads will not get around it by RAW. Fireball-type spreads still do, but that's it. I doubt that was intended though.


He asked about that too, as well as Snake's Switness and the Mass version of the same.
Wings of Cover is really really good for a 2nd level spell, but is, again, Sorcerer-only. Just houserule it so that AoEs get around it, and it should be fine to allow.

Snake's Swiftness/Mass are fine as is.

Douglas
2010-06-28, 11:44 PM
Snake's Swiftness/Mass are fine as is.
Actually, I find them nearly useless due to not stacking with Haste.

PId6
2010-06-28, 11:46 PM
Actually, I find them nearly useless due to not stacking with Haste.
Allow me to rephrase that then:

Snake's Swiftness/Mass are not overpowered as is.

tyckspoon
2010-06-28, 11:50 PM
It grants you complete cover, so most AoEs besides spreads will not get around it by RAW. Fireball-type spreads still do, but that's it. I doubt that was intended though.


I'm reasonably certain Wings of Cover invokes Specific Beats General; area attacks bypass it despite attacking against total cover, because Wings of Cover takes the time to mention how they work against it instead of just letting you refer to the usual Cover rules.


(Mass) Snake's Swiftness is kinda nice for summoners with the feat that lets you cast a low-level buff into your summons. I wouldn't bother with it for a Sorcerer, although it might make a decent swap choice when it comes time to let go of Sleep/Color Spray.

PId6
2010-06-28, 11:57 PM
I'm reasonably certain Wings of Cover invokes Specific Beats General; area attacks bypass it despite attacking against total cover, because Wings of Cover takes the time to mention how they work against it instead of just letting you refer to the usual Cover rules.
The line about AoE attacks implied that it's intended to work on AoE, but it's badly written enough to not actually supersede the cover rules.


Your foe could choose to attack the area in which you have taken cover with an area attack (such as a fireball spell). In this case, you gain a +8 bonus to AC (if applicable) and a +4 bonus to Reflex saves.
This does not overrule the cover rules, because it doesn't actually say anything about non-spread AoE spells working through cover. Your foe can choose to attack the area around you with AoEs. In fact, he can do a lot of things. That doesn't mean that the AoEs would actually affect you. Even the example they used (fireball) is a spread-based spell, so it works through cover anyway. It's just badly written.

Eldariel
2010-06-29, 12:01 AM
It's a Sorcerer-only spell, which is a big bonus (helps them in comparison to Wizard). It's also a blasty spell (big bonus, most of them suck monkey). As such, it's not really outside the appropriate power level; it is stronger than the competition but only because the competition is pretty bad. And well, Orb of X matches up just fine, still. Biggest thing is that it's uncapped, which makes it remain useful for quite the while and goes great with Caster Level pumping. So no, I wouldn't say it's too good for most games. If anything, I think it fills a role that desperately needed to be filled so it should enhance your game experience.

Wonton
2010-06-29, 01:56 AM
? It doesn't, at least not completely- you get an AC bonus/Reflex save bonus against it instead. If you find an area attack that doesn't use a Reflex save or an attack roll (Cold/Electric-type psionic blasting comes to mind) it will ignore Wings of Cover entirely.


It grants you complete cover, so most AoEs besides spreads will not get around it by RAW. Fireball-type spreads still do, but that's it. I doubt that was intended though.

Let's not start this again. I've not yet gotten over the pain of all the rules-lawyering that happened in that "Overlooked Spells" thread. :smallannoyed: