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View Full Version : UMD and Taking 20 [3.5]



OMG PONIES
2010-06-29, 07:50 AM
Now, I know you cannot take 10 on a UMD check, generally speaking. I think that artificers and warlocks get the ability to do so at a later level, but my question pertains to other classes.

If you put 1 rank in UMD, can you take 20 with it? Or does taking 20 first require the ability to take 10? The way I'm reading it, taking 10 is like focusing your mind and getting it pretty right the first time, whereas taking 20 is just trying again and again until you get it. So, to me, you should be able to take 20 even if you can't take 10. Is this right?

Gnaeus
2010-06-29, 07:51 AM
If there is a penalty associated with failing at a skill, you can't take 20.

UMD, if you roll a 1, you can't UMD that item again that day, so there is a penalty.

VonDragon
2010-06-29, 07:53 AM
proberly say no as i believe some item like scrolls blow up/backlash on you if failed, so you cant really afford 19 fails for a success with magic items

OMG PONIES
2010-06-29, 07:55 AM
What is the penalty for failure when using UMD to activate a wand? Is it just that if you roll a natural 1, you can't try again for 24 hours? If so, can I just keep rolling UMD checks as long as I don't get a 1, or do I have to wait a certain amount of time?

I'm trying to make a fighter w/ Magic Device Attunement. Basically, he keeps trying to activate a wand in the morning until he gets it (DC 20), and then he can use it all day long with no checks. Would this work?

BRC
2010-06-29, 07:57 AM
The way we run it is that taking 20 with a wand means you burn 20 charges. The idea is that you just keep trying until you eventually roll a 20.

Gnaeus
2010-06-29, 07:57 AM
What is the penalty for failure when using UMD to activate a wand? Is it just that if you roll a natural 1, you can't try again for 24 hours? If so, can I just keep rolling UMD checks as long as I don't get a 1, or do I have to wait a certain amount of time?

You can keep trying until you roll the 1.


The way we run it is that taking 20 with a wand means you burn 20 charges. The idea is that you just keep trying until you eventually roll a 20.

Thats fine if you like it that way, but strictly a houserule. There is nothing in the UMD description that suggests that you burn charges if you fail.

balistafreak
2010-06-29, 08:41 AM
Note that if you have a massive modifier to your skill, if you can still succeed on a 1, then you do. It's only if you fail on a 1 that you get "locked out" from the item.

Granted, most people (at the lower levels most play at) will be failing on 1s, but when you get up there, do note this.

OMG PONIES
2010-06-29, 03:07 PM
Noted, balistafreak. Thank you!

But yeah, this poor chap will be at level 3...and he's a warrior, not a fighter. Given a 10 CHA, I've gotten him up to +8 (+3 cross-class ranks, +3 Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, +2 masterwork tool), so a 45% chance of success isn't too bad. Is there any other way to pump it using only Core + Complete Mage? I want to use Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles, but I'm limited in terms of sources allowed.

2xMachina
2010-06-29, 03:09 PM
Use 1 charge wands.

Out for the day? Never mind, I've more.

OMG PONIES
2010-06-29, 04:25 PM
Use 1 charge wands.

Out for the day? Never mind, I've more.

I'm slightly confused. Do 1-charge wands have a different DC to activate than full wands?

Il_Vec
2010-06-29, 04:27 PM
No, but if you roll a 1, you can't use it again for the day... So you use another of your 1-use items.

Optimystik
2010-06-29, 04:32 PM
No, but if you roll a 1, you can't use it again for the day... So you use another of your 1-use items.

Nitpick - that's if you fail on a one. Skill-checks don't auto-fail on a one, so with a high enough modifier you can never fail UMD (for a given DC) again.

Il_Vec
2010-06-29, 04:34 PM
Try Again
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

Missed that part, sorry.

Ranos
2010-06-29, 04:38 PM
Does the "locked out of an item on a 1" rule apply if you're simply emulating a race without actually activating it ?

Il_Vec
2010-06-29, 04:46 PM
Since it is in the Try Again section, it applies in all cases when you try to use the skill. If you are trying to emulate a race using a different skill (Disguise?), then you'd fall on other rules. But, if you are using UMD, you are subject to that rule. If you roll 1 and fail.

Saya
2010-06-29, 04:47 PM
Nitpick - that's if you fail on a one. Skill-checks don't auto-fail on a one, so with a high enough modifier you can never fail UMD (for a given DC) again.

Actually, UMD has a special condition that if you roll a nat 1, you can't use it for 24 hours.

EDIT:Nevermind, should stop trying to read while tired

lsfreak
2010-06-29, 04:55 PM
Actually, UMD has a special condition that if you roll a nat 1, you can't use it for 24 hours.

Look again, as has already been pointed out. It's very easy to miss, but a nat 1 does nothing - a natural 1 that also fails, does have a drawback.


Try Again
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

OMG PONIES
2010-06-29, 05:12 PM
No, but if you roll a 1, you can't use it again for the day... So you use another of your 1-use items.

Ah, tricksy hobbitses.