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Rannil
2010-06-29, 08:31 AM
Heya Playground.

I was helping a friend building a Halfling Whisperknife, a throwing character. He wanted to keep it simple and for the levels 6-20 he is going for 10/10 Whisperknife and 5/5 Master Throwing.

Now for the first five levels I was thinking rogue/fighter. Until I saw the halfling racial paragon. +2 damage per thrown attack and +2 dex for 3 levels + minor other boosts. And it fits the theme/fluff of Whisperknife.

And there I hit a problem. We need to hit 4 BaB by level 5 for going into the PrCs and we still need a bonus feat (we already got two flaws and Strong heart halfling) and sneak attack without losing any BaB. I found the fighter variant which swaps bonus feats for sneak attack, but then I need a class that gives 1 BaB and a bonus feat*. And I can't take fighter twice.

*For record, the feat needs be any one of the following:
Weapon Finesse
Quick Draw
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus (Dagger)
Two-Weapon Fighting

Or maybe I am doing it wrong and you guys know a better way of filling the first five levels.
Help me help my friend. :smalltongue:

jokey665
2010-06-29, 08:35 AM
Swashbuckler 1 gives +1 BAB and Weapon Finesse.

Ryuuk
2010-06-29, 08:37 AM
Another option might be Ranger 2, granting +2 Bab, Two Weapon Fighting, good 6 skill points and access to ranger spells via wands.

Rannil
2010-06-29, 08:40 AM
Swashbuckler 1 gives +1 BAB and Weapon Finesse.

Missed that one, yup. Swashbuckler works. Thanks


Another option might be Ranger 2, granting +2 Bab, Two Weapon Fighting, good 6 skill points and access to ranger spells via wands.
Have considered ranger, but with 3 levels Halfling Paragon, 2 levels ranger doesn't fit. I also need sneak attack. Silly requirements.

nedz
2010-06-29, 08:53 AM
Take the PrCs the other way around, at least in part perhaps.
Master Thrower requires PBS, Precise S, and Wpn Focus.
Level 1 gives you Quickdraw.

So you just need Wpn Finesse and TWF for Whisperknife

MT does require BAB +5 however so this may not help.

Ed: I think this works - no flaws either
1 Half Paragon PBS, Precise(B)
2 Half Paragon
3 Half Paragon Wpn Focus
4 Rogue-Fighter sneak
5 Swash Wpn Finesse
6 MT 1 Quickdraw(MT), TWF
7 Wk 1

Rannil
2010-06-29, 09:11 AM
Take the PrCs the other way around, at least in part perhaps.
Master Thrower requires PBS, Precise S, and Wpn Focus.
Level 1 gives you Quickdraw.

So you just need Wpn Finesse and TWF for Whisperknife

MT does require BAB +5 however so this may not help.

Ed: I think this works - no flaws either
1 Half Paragon PBS, Precise(B)
2 Half Paragon
3 Half Paragon Wpn Focus
4 Rogue-Fighter sneak
5 Swash Wpn Finesse
6 MT 1 Quickdraw(MT), TWF
7 Wk 1

Shamefully Halfling Paragon Bab goes 0-1-2. Even without Halfling Paragon 5 BaB is hard. You need sneak attack, and rogue starts with 0 BaB.
The best way to pull that off is with 1 Level Fighter Sneak variant, 2 levels rangers, 1 level swashbuckler and... something else with 1 BaB. Advancing current classes don't add a lot. Edit: but works ofcourse.
Maybe 3 fighter/2 ranger works, but it sounds so bad... 3 levels in fighter, brrrr.

Zemro
2010-06-29, 09:37 AM
Using fractional save/attack bonuses would probably solve your multi-classing woes between the paragon and rogue.

It's a variant from Unearthed Arcana, so it should be in the SRD, I'm just failing to locate it. But with it, you'd be getting +3/4 BAB per level of Paragon and Rogue, so with a level in both you've be looking at 1 BAB instead of 0.

Alternatly, the below mainly works out. (No paragon though).

Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 1/Whisperknife 1/Master Thrower 1

Flaw: Point-Blank Shot (Or, the bonus from Strongheart)
First: Precise Shot
Third: Quick Draw
Swash: Weapon Finesse
Fighter: Two-Weapon Fighting
Sixth: Weapon Focus (Dagger)

Then see if your DM will allow you to take another feat you qualify for in place of the extra instance of Quick Draw.

Bonus points for using the Halfling Rogue racial substitutions level in Races of the Wild for +1d6 while sneak attacking at range (at the cost of -1d6 in melee).

nedz
2010-06-29, 09:45 AM
Oops, for some reason I thought that Halfling Paragon was full BAB, back to the drawing board then.

Ed: spX

Rannil
2010-06-29, 10:28 AM
Using fractional save/attack bonuses would probably solve your multi-classing woes between the paragon and rogue.

It's a variant from Unearthed Arcana, so it should be in the SRD, I'm just failing to locate it. But with it, you'd be getting +3/4 BAB per level of Paragon and Rogue, so with a level in both you've be looking at 1 BAB instead of 0.

Alternatly, the below mainly works out. (No paragon though).

Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 1/Whisperknife 1/Master Thrower 1

Flaw: Point-Blank Shot (Or, the bonus from Strongheart)
First: Precise Shot
Third: Quick Draw
Swash: Weapon Finesse
Fighter: Two-Weapon Fighting
Sixth: Weapon Focus (Dagger)

Then see if your DM will allow you to take another feat you qualify for in place of the extra instance of Quick Draw.

Bonus points for using the Halfling Rogue racial substitutions level in Races of the Wild for +1d6 while sneak attacking at range (at the cost of -1d6 in melee).

I see if I can sneak fractional saves in the DM realm of possible variant rules, then we can go classic 3 Paragon/1 Fighter/1 Rogue. Pretty sure I do can swap out Quick Draw of Master Thrower, our DM has let us swap feats before without a lot of troubles involved.
And with flaws I can loose the Fighter level, and get something with more skills points, those tend to be annoying* but not impossible. 2 Levels ranger or Swashbuckler.

*The build needs:
Balance: 3 ranks. Climb: 3 ranks. Hide: 6 ranks. Jump: 3 ranks. Move Silently: 6 ranks. Tumble: 3 ranks. Sleight of Hand: 4 ranks.



I was slightly distracted by the Halfling Monk substitutions levels, it almost sounds useful. Using Shurikens as throw weapons and we enter some some d6 fest. They even get weapon finesse as bonus feat.

3 Levels halfling rogue would add 3d6, Monk 1d6, and that is level 4. 4d6 When sneaking with shurikens in 30 ft.

But there was a reason why daggers were needed in the build... I just forgot. It would make an awesome ninja halfling.

Sc00by
2010-06-29, 01:50 PM
My whisperknife went:

1 Halfling Rogue subsitution level (RotW) PBS
2 Fighter Precise Shot
3 Fighter 2 Weapon Focus (dagger) Far shot
4 SwashBuckler 1(weapon Finesse)
5 Rogue 2
6 SwashBuckler 2 2 Weapon fighting Arcane stunt (Expeditious retreat)
7 Halfling rogue 3 (thief's luck) Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape)
8 Master Thrower 1 (Quick Draw) [I took dead eye, most take palm throw, I was trying to not extract the urine]
9 SwashBuckler 3 Daring Outlaw (C Adv or C Sco) Insightful Strike
10 Rogue 4
11-19 Whisperknife... (& Craven)

Is currently level 19 and plays quite well (8d6 sneak attack with a shocking Burst Dagger)

Morph Bark
2010-06-29, 04:48 PM
You could use the Simple Fighter variant in Unearthed Arcana (and the SRD), which gives +1d6 Sneak Attack instead of a bonus feat at 1st-level (and continues on with Sneak Attack instead of bonus feats). Full BAB plus Sneak Attack? Sounds right, or not?

Sc00by
2010-06-29, 05:53 PM
but you can use dashing outlaw to combine Swashbuckler and Rogue and only lose +1 BaB and have some skill points and (alternative) class features...