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molten_dragon
2010-06-29, 04:57 PM
Does it exist or is there a way to make it happen (particularly for a sorcer). I'm working on a gestalt build involving mostly sorcerer and druid and am trying to come up with a way to make it less MAD.

Jorda75
2010-06-29, 05:00 PM
Not that I'm personally aware of besides Mystic Theurge, but that's really just gaining levels in both not using Wis for arcane spells.

The general rule, of 3.5 at least, seems to be that arcane magic is based on either Int or Cha and divine is based on Wis or very rarely Cha, while psionics is usually Int.

Critical
2010-06-29, 05:02 PM
Only Arcane Swordsage, which no sane DM will allow. :smalltongue:

mcl01
2010-06-29, 05:20 PM
Easy. I don't know how it wasn't mentioned in the first reply. Geomancer. Complete Divine p42.

Gets Spell Versatility 0 at 1st level, and it increases by 1 every level up to Spell Versatility 9 at level 10. It basically allows you to mix and match parameters of your spells as you wish. I.e. you can treat your arcane spells as divine spells and vice versa for determining such things as save DCs, arcane spell failure, divine focus vs arcane material component, spontaneously casting SNA spells, etc as long as the spell level is <= your spell versatility. It doesn't specifically mention bonus spells, however. I think it's as close as you'll get though.

Optimystik
2010-06-29, 05:35 PM
If you don't mind subbing psionics for arcane magic (they can do lots of the same things,) an Ardent is Wis-based and can effectively accomplish what a Psion, and therefore a Wizard, can - so long as you properly choose and reconfigure their mantles.

Kaje
2010-06-29, 05:40 PM
If you don't mind subbing psionics for arcane magic (they can do lots of the same things,) an Ardent is Wis-based and can effectively accomplish what a Psion, and therefore a Wizard, can - so long as you properly choose and reconfigure their mantles.Course, if you're allowing that as a substitute for arcane magic, why not go all the way and make a cleric and call it a wizard? I don't think that's exactly what the OP had in mind.

Hague
2010-06-29, 05:44 PM
Yeah, Geomancer is the solution, but... well... I don't like Geomancer for several reasons. The fact that you'll never again pass in polite society is one of them...


"Oh there's that guy with the tiger-striped wooden skin and deer antlers."

DragoonWraith
2010-06-29, 05:47 PM
If you don't mind homebrew, my Arcanist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139869) was intended to fill this gap, being a Wis-based arcane caster. He's kind of similar to an Ardent, too.

Unfortunately, I never got around to writing up nearly enough Orbs for him...

Prime32
2010-06-29, 05:55 PM
Alternatively, Rich has a feat which makes druids Cha-based (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/3CsX278ZDGQQ62al3RP.html).

mcl01
2010-06-29, 06:18 PM
Yeah, Geomancer is the solution, but... well... I don't like Geomancer for several reasons. The fact that you'll never again pass in polite society is one of them...

Hat of Disguise Self. 1800 gp. And it's a very good magic item in its own right.

Geomancer has issues, but I like it regardless. Gestalt fixes up one huge issue with it right off the bat - the fact that it's a single-spellcasting progression class.

Draz74
2010-06-29, 06:29 PM
Alternatively, Rich has a feat which makes druids Cha-based (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/3CsX278ZDGQQ62al3RP.html).

Which, annoyingly, doesn't work for actual Fey characters, like a Nymph Druid. :smalltongue:

Optimystik
2010-06-29, 06:53 PM
Course, if you're allowing that as a substitute for arcane magic, why not go all the way and make a cleric and call it a wizard? I don't think that's exactly what the OP had in mind.

Not the same. The cleric spell list is vastly different from the wizard spell list, but Ardents and Psions have exactly the same powers.

For instance, it's a lot easier for a low level wizard, psion or ardent to make with the blasty or the save vs. sucky. A cleric is relegated to buffing, summoning and gish-ing, barring the odd domain (of which he only has one slot.)

For Valor
2010-06-29, 07:24 PM
Ummm... make a Sorcerer, and base casting off of Wisdom.

Honestly, that's all you really need to do. If you're running a Druid (Tier 1), changing your sorcerer (Tier 2) so that it's compatible honestly won't make you more overpowered at all. The only thing to be worried about is your DM killing you because you're playing 2 annoyingly powerful classes.

EvilJoe15
2010-06-29, 07:58 PM
I give you the Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster).

Fax Celestis
2010-06-29, 08:16 PM
Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030315a) gets Wis-based arcane casting, as well as some neat mount related stuff.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-29, 08:42 PM
I give you the Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster).

XD It specifically denies wisdom as an arcane casting stat.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-29, 09:08 PM
In 3.0 there was a prestige class that had Wisdom-based arcane spells. However, a prestige class of the same name exists in 3.5 with no casting at all, so by the usual update rules, it no longer exists. The two classes are quite different from what I recall.

DragoonWraith
2010-06-29, 09:12 PM
In 3.0 there was a prestige class that had Wisdom-based arcane spells. However, a prestige class of the same name exists in 3.5 with no casting at all, so by the usual update rules, it no longer exists. The two classes are quite different from what I recall.
Out of curiosity, which is that?

Optimystik
2010-06-29, 09:33 PM
Out of curiosity, which is that?

If it was divine I'd have said Hierophant. Ha!

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-29, 09:45 PM
Out of curiosity, which is that?

I don't recall, but I want to say Dark Hunter, as I think the updated version was found in Complete Warrior. As for the original's location, I can't say: probably either Masters of the Wild or Sword and Fist.

Il_Vec
2010-06-29, 09:46 PM
I don't recall, but I want to say Dark Hunter, as I think the updated version was found in Complete Warrior. As for the original's location, I can't say: probably either Masters of the Wild or Sword and Fist.

I have Sword and Fist and there is no wis based arcane caster class here, sorry.

Zovc
2010-06-29, 09:49 PM
I give you the Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster).

Indeed, it calls it "divine" spellcasting, but that will only matter for prestige classes, as you can choose to learn exclusively Sorcerer/Wizard spells if you like. Then again, why leave out cool Cleric and/or Druid spells?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-06-29, 09:50 PM
D'oh, looks like my sources were off. Turns out this is the 3.0 Dark Hunter, compared to the 3.5 Darkhunter. That space actually keeps the former legit in 3.5. Silly me.

Fax's link to the former is here. The latter is in CW.

Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030315a) gets Wis-based arcane casting, as well as some neat mount related stuff.

Lhurgyof
2010-06-29, 10:36 PM
Adept? xD
Or you could always go cleric with the force/magic domain and spontaneous domain casting. :P

Optimystik
2010-06-30, 07:42 AM
"An adept casts divine spells..."

UserClone
2010-06-30, 07:57 AM
The Witch is your best bet, I'd say. Arcane casting based off WIS. From The Witch's Handbook, by Steve Kenson (Green Ronin).

Otomodachi
2010-06-30, 10:40 AM
Bastards and Bloodlines is a 3.0 book, and if you can talk your DM into allowing material from it it contains a feat called Lost Tradition which allows you to switch the casting stat for whatever your caster class is. Only available at level 1. Can even switch to ANY stat, including the physicals. For the record, I would never allow this in a game I ran.

Lhurgyof
2010-06-30, 12:56 PM
"An adept casts divine spells..."
Yes, but he also gets some spells most divine casters don't, as well as a familiar. Someone already mentioned a cleric, so I thought this would help.

Snake-Aes
2010-06-30, 01:02 PM
I recommend you talk to your dm and refluff the sorcerer to get off on wisdom instead of charisma. I don't recall any wisdom caster by default so you're bound to enter into the realm of more obscure stuff anyway.

Pechvarry
2010-06-30, 02:46 PM
I think it'd be easier to get your divine side cha-based, though this almost certainly means ditching Druid for something weaker.

molten_dragon
2010-06-30, 07:01 PM
Thanks for the responses everyone. To give some more information, I'm thinking about something like this:

Druid 5/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid 5 // Sorcerer 5/Monk 1/Totemist 9/Soulcaster 5

I kind of like the idea of Geomancer, but I'm not quite sure where I'd fit it in, and it looks like I'd need pretty much all 10 levels to do what I want. I may just need to suck it up and pump WIS and CHA as much as I can. I guess needing WIS, CHA, and CON aren't so bad.

zenanarchist
2010-06-30, 07:13 PM
I don't see the drama to be honest.

I'm a mage, I cast off Wis....

I'm sure if you're balanced along with the rest of your party your DM won't mind. I don't think there's any need for complicated customisations or different classes. Just ask if you can cast based off your wisdom. You want to go a Tier 1 class anyway, just agree that your druid casting and level progression in no way affects your mage casting?

Il_Vec
2010-06-30, 07:57 PM
Druid 5/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid 5 // Sorcerer 5/Monk 1/Totemist 9/Soulcaster 5


I don't want to sound like a douche here, but if memory doesn't fail, arcane hierophant is a dual progression class, and those are by default prohibited in gestalt. Have you talked that over with the DM?

PId6
2010-06-30, 08:03 PM
I don't want to sound like a douche here, but if memory doesn't fail, arcane hierophant is a dual progression class, and those are by default prohibited in gestalt. Have you talked that over with the DM?
They're not strictly prohibited by default; UA just recommend that they not be allowed. But yeah, you should definitely clear that with the DM beforehand just in case.

Il_Vec
2010-06-30, 08:07 PM
To make this clearer, from the SRD:



A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.

That is a suggestion, of course, but it really should be Okayed by the DM.