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BRC
2010-06-29, 07:48 PM
So I Recently acquired Dragonmech, and am REALLY looking forward to playing it, I've got a decently fun adventure planned, but I have a few questions.

1: I love the idea of Mechs, and some of my players are very excited to use them. However, Mechs kind of dominate a game. If you're playing in Mechs, everybody who is a Mech Jockey will Dominate, and everybody who isn't one is more or less useless, or plays second fiddle. However, once you leave the Mech's, those mech jockeys become useless themselves. Is it possible to run a good Dragonmech game without making it either all about Mechs or removing Mech Combat.
2: Mech's don't come with CR's,is there a good way to make sure I'm sending my PC's up against an appropriate Mech encounter?
3: A Mech's increased hitpoints/hardness seems too strong compared to their ability to do more damage. I havn't actually had a chance to play yet, but I get the impression that Mech combat is just a huge slugest that keeps dragging on, especially since attack rolls are easy to make against Mechs. Does the game quickly turn into "I attack" "You hit" "I deal damage" "They still have a gajillion hit points left, or is there a way to speed up mech combat.
4: Do Mechs take damage as inanimate objects? The main Damage-dealing spells tend to be Fire, Cold, or Lightning, all of which suck against inanimate objects. The idea of a Wizard or sorcerer helping out in Mech combat is both A) Awesome, and B) Lets a character do somthing without filling a gunner slot, but are they limited to Acid or Sonic spells (Both of which deal low damage) if they want to be useful.

Makiru
2010-06-29, 11:57 PM
1. Mech Jockeys aren't useless outside of a mech. They still have cleric base attack, two free feats at 1st level, several weapon proficiencies, all mech weapon proficiencies, and a full bevy of bonus feats. Also, any class can take Mechanized Combat Practice and get a mech attack bonus equal to their normal BAB. So, yeah, you can have a good game that isn't all or nothing with regards to mech combat.

2. This, I have not figured out. It's just something you have to eyeball.

3. Use firing ports to have auxiliary crew members attack the opponent as well. You can also trip the opponent's mech, use a bore puncher to get other party members inside and take out the crew, or just pull it down on foot.

4. Mechs take damage as constructs, not inanimate objects, so spells can still mess them up.

BRC
2010-06-30, 12:56 AM
1. Mech Jockeys aren't useless outside of a mech. They still have cleric base attack, two free feats at 1st level, several weapon proficiencies, all mech weapon proficiencies, and a full bevy of bonus feats. Also, any class can take Mechanized Combat Practice and get a mech attack bonus equal to their normal BAB. So, yeah, you can have a good game that isn't all or nothing with regards to mech combat.

2. This, I have not figured out. It's just something you have to eyeball.

3. Use firing ports to have auxiliary crew members attack the opponent as well. You can also trip the opponent's mech, use a bore puncher to get other party members inside and take out the crew, or just pull it down on foot.

4. Mechs take damage as constructs, not inanimate objects, so spells can still mess them up.
So does that mean that Flame Nozzles and Steambreathers actually DO work against other mechs?

Sindri
2010-06-30, 02:36 AM
Mechs are treated more like inanimate objects that constructs; they don't count as creatures for spells that affect creatures only, and they have Hardness instead of Damage Reduction. This means that yes, many damage dealing spells are less useful (though you can get acid and sonic spells just as effective as the more common ones) and it takes a lot of damage to actually destroy a mech. This is because combat between larger mechs is closer to naval combat or even a war than a duel; critical hits make systems nonfunctional, boading actions and personal weapons come into play, and it's more common to fight until a surrender or a capture than a kill.

As for mages becoming useless against mechs, keep in mind that things like etherealness, dimension doors, disintegration, etc. are a lot more effective than straight damage.

I don't have an answer for the CR question; I'd just eyeball it for what's appropriate, and assign EXP based on how much of a challenge it was to them. I tend to ignore the CR of official monsters anyway, since depending on the group a CR 5 might kill them after they steamroll over a dungeon full of CR 16s. Yes, this happened to me.

And yes, flame nozzles and steam breathers are useable against mechs, if they are within range (which they probably shouldn't be, given the reach of mechs), and the damage can get through (it's halved, then reduced by hardness). And personally, I'd houserule that steam deals quarter damage to objects, like cold instead of fire. It's a lot easier to boil a living person than to destroy even wood with a steam jet, let alone stone or metal, whereas fire works fine.

Edit: you can affect mechs with some spells that target creatures, but you need the right metamagic feat and then to chain together an extra casting of the spell for every size category above that of the caster. Against damage dealing spells, anything involving a will save, etc. they are treated as inanimate objects in the possession of their pilot.

BRC
2010-07-01, 05:05 PM
Hrmm. Alright, interesting, so I should have mech fights be more about called shots to disable systems/ boarding actions than straight up slugfests?
Speaking of Called Shots, they seem like an easy way to win mech fights. In fact, making a Called Shot against the enemy cockpit makes so much sense that it seems to invalidate doing much of anything else.
I suppose another way to shorten Mech fights is to start having Enemy Mechs run away after a certain time rather than stay to fight to the death, which makes sense. A Mech is a considerable investment, and so most Mech Jockeys would be trained to flee rather than risk their Mech being destroyed or captured by the enemy. "Know No Fear" Is all well and good for grunt infantry, less for Mech Jockeys.

Alright, so I can speed up Mech Fights by educating my PC's about called shots and having enemy Mech Jockeys retreat after getting to, lets say, Orange threshold.
Any Ideas for interesting things to do when not in mech-combat?

Oslecamo
2010-07-01, 05:34 PM
Alright, so I can speed up Mech Fights by educating my PC's about called shots and having enemy Mech Jockeys retreat after getting to, lets say, Orange threshold.
Any Ideas for interesting things to do when not in mech-combat?

Infiltrating and sabotaging big mechas by foot seems precisely the kind of business adventurers would do in Dragonmech. Cripple it enough so an ally mecha can take it, or even fight your way to the cockpit and capture it for yourself!:smallbiggrin:

Makiru
2010-07-01, 10:03 PM
Mechs are treated more like inanimate objects that constructs; they don't count as creatures for spells that affect creatures only, and they have Hardness instead of Damage Reduction. This means that yes, many damage dealing spells are less useful (though you can get acid and sonic spells just as effective as the more common ones)

This point seems odd to me, as I just went through all the books I own and nowhere does it say that hardness works like that with regards to magical damage. It just looks strange as that point would completely nullify the elven battle strategy of "use magic", especially with the Rodwalker and it's main weapon being multiple Fireballs that would do virtually nothing to a similarly sized opponent of mechanical origin.

I say this because my game is getting up to the point the group would get a mech and knowing the distinction would be very important if I've been confused up to this time.

BRC
2010-07-01, 10:49 PM
This point seems odd to me, as I just went through all the books I own and nowhere does it say that hardness works like that with regards to magical damage. It just looks strange as that point would completely nullify the elven battle strategy of "use magic", especially with the Rodwalker and it's main weapon being multiple Fireballs that would do virtually nothing to a similarly sized opponent of mechanical origin.

I say this because my game is getting up to the point the group would get a mech and knowing the distinction would be very important if I've been confused up to this time.
According to the SRD, Sonic and Acid deal full damage bypassing Hardness. Fire and Lightning deal half, then apply hardness, Cold deals 1/4th damage before applying Hardness.