Move Silently as a class skill?

[Greenish]

I've been toying around with various sneaky melee'ers, and most recently I've laid my eyes to Ruby Knight Vindicator, which gets Hide as a class skill, but curiously not Move Silently.

So, is there a way to gain Move Silently as a class skill without dipping to other classes? (I'm thinking cleric4/crusader1 entry.)

[Zaq]

Feats are almost certainly your best bet. There's always Skill Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm#skillKnowledge), if your GM allows variant rules. Maybe one of the Apprentice feats from DMG2? (Interestingly, it's easier to get Hide as a class skill than Move Silently, since you can just take Martial Study and any Shadow Hand maneuver... but that doesn't really help, now does it?)

I know that certain races always have certain skills in-class (Illumians always get Speak Language, and Glimmerskin Halflings always get Heal as a class skill. I don't think that there are any races that get Move Silently, but I've been surprised before (maybe Whisper Gnomes?), so check that out.

[AslanCross]

I almost said Trickery Domain, but apparently it only gives Hide, Bluff and Disguise as class skills.

The Halfling domain gives a 1/day 10-minute long bonus on Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Hide equal to your charisma bonus, but no class skills.

The only alternative I can suggest is preparing Iron Silence (Lv cleric spell) which cancels your ACP for the purpose of Move Silently for 1 hour/level.
you're still going to suck at it, though, just not as much.

[Traith]

I don't know anything about Ruby Knight Vindicator's so this may not fit. I'd just go up to my DM and say "Hey, Ruby Knight Vindicators have Hide as class skill, but not Move Silently. That seems odd to me, what do you say?"

[Greenish]

Feats are almost certainly your best bet. There's always Skill Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm#skillKnowledge), if your GM allows variant rules.Ah yes, I forgot that one, although given how different the variant for which it is written is from standard skill rules, it basically amounts to DM fiat.
Maybe one of the Apprentice feats from DMG2?No dice, I checked those before posting. It's almost criminal that not even a criminal mentor can teach you to sneak!
(Interestingly, it's easier to get Hide as a class skill than Move Silently, since you can just take Martial Study and any Shadow Hand maneuver... but that doesn't really help, now does it?)Hide is trivial, true. Cleric can get it via Trickery domain (I love that domain) and Ruby Knight Vindicator gets it as a matter of course, what with having Shadow Hand as one of it's schools.

I know that certain races always have certain skills in-class (Illumians always get Speak Language, and Glimmerskin Halflings always get Heal as a class skill. I don't think that there are any races that get Move Silently, but I've been surprised before (maybe Whisper Gnomes?), so check that out.I'll have to look into those, though I'd prefer to be a human. Whisper Gnomes get fat bonuses to Move Silently, but no skills as class skills, as far as I recall.
[Edit]:
I don't know anything about Ruby Knight Vindicator's so this may not fit. I'd just go up to my DM and say "Hey, Ruby Knight Vindicators have Hide as class skill, but not Move Silently. That seems odd to me, what do you say?"I'd rather avoid fiat. I just prefer to make things work without it, since otherwise it'll be too easy. :smalltongue:

[Krazddndfreek]

There's always the Able Learner feat for all the class skills. If there's a homebrew discipline out there with Move Silently as its key skill, you could grab that discipline from either ToB class levels, or the Martial Study feat.

[Siosilvar]

Able Learner

A 1st-level-only feat which technically doesn't give class skills, only lets you spend skill points as if they were; the cap is still in place?

[Greenish]

There's always the Able Learner feat for all the class skills.Unfortunately, Able Learner doesn't work like that.

[Zaq]

There's always the Able Learner feat for all the class skills. If there's a homebrew discipline out there with Move Silently as its key skill, you could grab that discipline from either ToB class levels, or the Martial Study feat.

Able Learner doesn't actually work that way. The only way you get the whole "Able Learner = all class skills!" thing is if you dip Factotum. Able Learner makes cross-class skills cost the same as class skills, but the level caps are still in place unless you can get them as ACTUAL class skills at one point or another.

I know that the feat City Slicker, from I think Races of Destiny, gives certain skills as class skills, but I forget what. I doubt that it's Move Silently, but it's a non-zero chance. Maybe check that?

[Krazddndfreek]

Eh, it was worth a try. Although, if you can grab a 1 level dip in a class that does have Move Silently as a class skill, you'll still have to buy it as cross class, but it lifts the max up to a normal class skill no matter what.

[Greenish]

I know that the feat City Slicker, from I think Races of Destiny, gives certain skills as class skills, but I forget what. I doubt that it's Move Silently, but it's a non-zero chance. Maybe check that?Did before posting this thread. No dice.

[PId6]

Well, you can always cast Silence...

[Eldariel]

Well, arguably for two feats you could take Dragontouched [Dragon Magic] and Draconic Heritage: Green [Races of the Dragon]. Then it'd be a class skill for "sorcerer" which you have no levels in, but as you're treated as a sorcerer of your character level for purposes of acquiring feats...well, a longshot interpretation would mean it's been a class skill for you and then you could Able Learner it or something...

Yeah, no.

[Gametime]

Initiate of Arvoreen, Champions of Valor pg. 30. Hide and Move Silently added to your list of cleric class skills. Unfortunately, you must worship Arvoreen (which already conflicts with RBV) and be a halfling. If your DM would waive those, you're golden.

If you do end up being a race other than human, Guerrilla Warrior gives you Able Learner for only Hide and Move Silently without the race restriction.

[deuxhero]

Tell your DM that the ToB prcs were clearly rushed (Note that JPM doesn't get spellcraft and I think concentration thanks to a copy-pasta error and has only a d6) and it's stupid to only have hide as a class skill but not move silent (and possibly that it's stupid to have them as two skills when everything after level 10 is just going to ignore them without darkstalker).

[Greenish]

Initiate of Arvoreen, Champions of Valor pg. 30. Hide and Move Silently added to your list of cleric class skills. Unfortunately, you must worship Arvoreen (which already conflicts with RBV) and be a halfling. If your DM would waive those, you're golden.Hmm, the requirements suck, but otherwise it's what I was looking for. Cheers.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, you can always cast Silence...
I think if you really want to let someone know there's something amiss, nulling out ambient sounds (like their own breathing) is a really excellent way of putting them on high alert.

[PId6]

I think if you really want to let someone know there's something amiss, nulling out ambient sounds (like their own breathing) is a really excellent way of putting them on high alert.
Ah, but that's why you puncture out their eardrums beforehand so they'll never notice the difference.

[Akal Saris]

I doubt it's what you want, but Move Silently is a permanent class skill for Viletooth Lizardfolk from Dragon Magic. I checked hoping to find it on a better race :P

[Ozymandias9]

The feat Cosmopolitan (FRCS) gives any one non-class skill as a class skill with a +2 bonus. It does have regional stipulations.


Or at least the 3rd edition version did. The 3.5 version (PGtF), not so much.

[Corporate M]

There's a feat called Able Learner that allows you to treat all non-class skills as class skills when it comes to spending skillpoints. (So 1 skillpoint instead of 2)

The only difference is some skills need to be trained to use effecitvely, and you're still limited to the half cap of class skills. So at higher levels this is less noticable, and you can still increase the modifier with feats like skill focus and such.

[Gametime]

The feat Cosmopolitan (FRCS) gives any one non-class skill as a class skill with a +2 bonus. It does have regional stipulations.


Or at least the 3rd edition version did. The 3.5 version (PGtF), not so much.

This gets my vote for the worst 3.5 update ever printed. The 3.0 feat is genuinely useful for a variety of classes and situations, allowing characters to break out of the (often absurdly limited) class skill lists and actually diversify their talents.

The 3.5 feat is a mildly improved, regional version of the terrible skill bonus feats in the Player's Handbook. :smallannoyed:

[Matthew]

[Edit]:I'd rather avoid fiat. I just prefer to make things work without it, since otherwise it'll be too easy. :smalltongue:

Technically, you should be able to trade out skills if it suits that character concept in line with the character customisation rules in the PHB. I would not regard that as fiat, at least no more than getting permission to use other supplemental and optional material, but the distinction is a fine one.

[Caliphbubba]

Take a level/s of human paragon?

like Cleric1/human paragon3/cleric2/crusader1>RKV

gets you one skill as a class skill forever, a bonus feat and a +2 to any stat, but lose one caster level

Edit: or even start as a human paragon, for more skill points at first level, then go cleric, then finish out human paragon for that bonus feat and +2 to a stat. just remembered you get to pick any 10 skills as well

[Thurbane]

alternative ways to get new class skills (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6832.0)


Draconic heritage (Type) – Races of the dragon (sorcerer only)
Nightbringer Initiate (feat) - Magic of Eberron
Viletooth Lizardfolk (race) - Dragon Magic

[Baalthazaq]

You could always take the Skulk race.
LA+1 (Boo)
2 Monstrous HD (Boo)
Hide and Move Silently are class skills for those HD (Yay)
You get +8 to Move Silently (Yay)
You get +15 to Hide. (Yay)
You get innate non detection set at DC 20 (Yay).
You get a +2 to Hide and Move silently due to the +4 dex. (Yay)

It's actually not bad, and if (as someone else suggested) you mix it with some Human Paragon, you're good to go. I can't see you ever being spotted with +15 to Move Silently and +22 to Hide at level 3.

[Coplantor]

...I know that certain races always have certain skills in-class (Illumians always get Speak Language, and Glimmerskin Halflings always get Heal as a class skill. I don't think that there are any races that get Move Silently, but I've been surprised before (maybe Whisper Gnomes?), so check that out.

They get a +4 racial bonus, though they also get the silence ability, wich, if casted upon themselves, the only enemies that will hear you aproaching will be those that make a succesfull listen check AFTER making a succesful will save. Though your DC's will most likely suck:smalltongue:

[Greenish]

Take a level/s of human paragon?

alternative ways to get new class skills (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6832.0)

You could always take the Skulk race. Thank you all for contributing, but I was looking for a way to do it without losing caster levels.

Customizing the skill list seems to be the simplest option.

[dextercorvia]

I know you said you checked, but I found an old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79775) where someone claimed that one of the DMGII Apprentice feats could get you Open Lock and Move Silently as class skills. Is there perhaps an adaptation section which allows you to customize your apprenticeship?

[Matthew]

I know you said you checked, but I found an old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79775) where someone claimed that one of the DMGII Apprentice feats could get you Open Lock and Move Silently as class skills. Is there perhaps an adaptation section which allows you to customize your apprenticeship?

The game master is free to create different types of "mentor", presumably the one sought is just not on the list of examples.