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View Full Version : Deadly Defense and the Fatemaker: what do you think? (new DD fix)



Fizban
2010-07-01, 06:56 AM
These two things don't have anything to do with each other, but they're interesting and I was wondering what everyone thought of them.

Deadly Defense is a feat in Complete Scoundrel that gives you an extra d6 of damage when fighting defensively or using enough Combat Expertise. I think it's a pretty nifty idea and it works on anything, but the associated penalty and fact that you can't increase it makes me sad.

Edit: since it's a tweak it's not really something for the homebrew forum I think, but how about this for adding some kick to Deadly Defense: you gain +1d6/-2 with combat expertise. So DD by itself lets you fight defensively for -4/+2/+1d6. DD+ Expertise gives you -2/+2/+1d6 with option of -4/+4/+2d6. DD+Expertise+ Improved Combat Expertise lets you expertise away as much attack bonus as you want, and keep gaining damage as you do so. The return is +1.75/-1 on average for damage, which is pretty good compared to two handed power attack, and you gain extra AC in exchange for the extra feat cost.

The Fatemaker is an odd prestige class from the Planar Handbook. It requires some social skills and a skill focus in one of them to enter, and has a 1/3 sneak attack progression with 4th level spellcasting. At first glance it seems like it's meant to be a sort of jack of all trades, but when you actually read all the abilities it's more of a jack of no trades. It requires social skills to enter, but does not improve them. It continues sneak attack, but is not concerned with stealth. It gains spellcasting, but does so from a horribly restricted list. I could swear that someone decided: "hey, my rogue would have liked casting these spells", and so made a class with a spell list of only those exact spells without considering what other spells might have been useful. The only class abilities aside from sneak attack and spellcasting are a 1-2/day bonus on one roll, and a +1-2 bonus on rolls for adjacent allies. The fluff is some vague notions of seizing power for yourself on the basis that if you can take it you deserve it, except some of them think that means they should be charitable, and somehow this manifests in the capstone ability of Righteous Might 1/day. The whole class confuses me. It seems like it could have been another Chameleon or Factotum, except it failed in every single way.

Lord Loss
2010-07-01, 07:12 AM
i personally like Deadly Defense. The Fatemaker sounds like yet another WOTC Stupid Fail. CW Samurai and Green Star Adept are other examples of this concept. Someday I will base a character around deadly defense. Perhaps in my upcoming Summer Campaign which we're starting at level one.

I don't have Planar Handbook, unfortunatley.

Zaq
2010-07-01, 07:55 PM
Deadly Defense is very good at low levels, but utterly fails to scale. Houserule it to actually scale (with level, with amount of Combat Expertise penalty takes, with whatever) and I could see it being useful. Not top-notch by any stretch, but fun. Kind of the opposite of Shock Trooper, only with the volume turned way down.

Fatemaker is fairly typical for a Planar Handbook PrC. Those are notoriously bad.

true_shinken
2010-07-01, 08:14 PM
Deadly Defense is excellent. I had a Swashbuckler/Dragon Devotee in my game that took the tanker role building around it - in a party with a Barbarian/Hellreaver, that is! Amazing indeed.

Akal Saris
2010-07-01, 09:44 PM
Deadly Defense is fine, but lacks oompf. I played a swordsage who almost always fought defensively and it would have been a free 1d6 per round, but my feat slots were too limited to spend on it.

Fatemaker - interestingly enough, this is would have been a great 1-level dip for a build I made a while back. The build was designed to hit 25 leadership at level 6 (so you have a level 4 cohort and a pair of level 6 followers at 6th level, just for the fun of it). Getting a Cha high enough for the build is a pain, but Fatemaker 1 grants +1 charisma. Since it was a marshal build, it already had Skill Focus (Diplomacy), the necessary skill ranks in those skills, and a BAB +4. Go figure!

Fizban
2010-07-03, 09:42 PM
While I didn't want to try and tweak the Fatemaker since it would just turn into a full class rewrite, more suitable for the homebrew forum, I have added a proposed tweak to Deadly Defense to the OP. Everyone seems to like Deadly Defense but could use a little more oomph, see if you can get something like this.