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Panigg
2010-07-01, 02:58 PM
Hey there guys,

I currently play a level 11 fighter, with focus on using the guisarme and power attack. Nothing like an ubercharger or tripper, but very effective, overall. He does tons of damage, just... he's really boring.

Str 18 + 4 = 22
Dex 14 + 2 = 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

Armor 5 + 1 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 22 AC (Touch 15) + 1 Dodge + 4 vs AoOP
Attack: BAB 11 + 4 + 6 + 3 = 24 + 1 Haste
Damage: 2w4 +2x Power Attack + 4 + 9 + 3
AoOP: 4
Life: 102

Saves:
Fort: 7 + 2 + 2 = 11
Ref: 3 + 3 + 2 = 8
Will: 3 + 2 = 5

1 - Weapon Focus
1 - Dodge
1 - Mobility
2 - Power Attack
3 - Cleave
4 - Spring Attack
6 - Combat Reflexes
6 - Weapon Spec
8 - Melee Weapon Mastery
9 - Greater Weapon Focus
10 - Stand Still
12 - Greater Weapon Spec
12 - Bonding Assault
14 - Slashing Fury
15 - Great Cleave
16 - Overpowering Attack
18 - Rapid Blitz
18 - Weapon Supremacy
20 - Short haft

Equip

Guisarme + 3
Mithril Breastplate + 1
Boots of Speed
Amuelet of Natural Armor + 1
Ring of Protection + 2
Ring of Sustanance
Belt of Ogre Strengh + 4
Gloves of Dexterity + 2
Cloak of Resistance +2

This is about it, some stats could be off as that is a rather old sheet. Gotta update that.

So, now to you guys. What would you do to bring in some variety into the mix?

I'm talking in and out of combat. Things like multiclassing into scout (see the spring attack feat) etc.

I'm really not sure, what to do. I've told my DM that I want to switch chars, but he wasn't happy about that. I may have mentioned ToB so that is probably why. ;)

So, remember, damage and survival wise this guy is doing fine, he needs variety.

Thanks for your help!

P.S. Oh yes, it should be plausible. So no totally out of the world weird stuff.

Croverus
2010-07-01, 03:01 PM
He got really drunk after a successful adventure, and got into a bar fight. After beating up the other guys he had earned enough experiance to gain a level and in a drunken stupor he takes a level in Bard, regrettingt he decision ever since. But he still finds the Bard abilities useful now and then.

Draz74
2010-07-01, 03:03 PM
Well, speaking of ToB, are you at least allowed to take some Martial Study and Martial Stance feats? Those can spice things up a lot.

So can a large collection of cheap but useful items. Rod of Viscid Globs is a particular favorite of mine for any character who is bored with the same old combat options.

Scorpina
2010-07-01, 03:03 PM
In what sense is he boring? Is it lack of personality, because there isn't much buildwise to be done about that. If it's that you want to do something other than hit people with your pointy stick, you might be on the right track with multiclassing to Scout for Spring Attack and Skirmish, which would allow you to move around a lot more. Multiclassing to Rogue could be fun too, since it'd give you Sneak Attack and allow for Fun With Flanking.

If you're looking for a few tricks to have up your sleeve besides just swinging your weapon, consider grabbing a Full BAB (Prestige Class) that has a handful of special abilities you can use when the mood strikes.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-01, 03:04 PM
Going Kensai? I know you said you don't want tips on upping the damage and kensai can do that, but it is a roleplaying class: lawful requirement and you have to take an oath or service or cause. Just something to think about.

Gnaritas
2010-07-01, 03:10 PM
You mentioned ToB, are those classes (swordsage, crusader, warblade) allowed? cause maneuvers are a great way to provide more interesting combat actions.

Keld Denar
2010-07-01, 03:11 PM
A level of Barbarian synergizes delightfully with Fighter. Having access to Rage (which you can get more of with the Extra Rage feat, CWarrior) is nice, but the real gems are the alt class features. Pounce is AMAZING, and is available at 1st level with the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian in CChamp. You aren't an ubercharger, but you are a character who CAN charge without gimping his full attack.

Also, would it be possible to trade down your weapon? Extra pluses past the first one are generally not so optimal in 3.5. Sure, it gives you a little more room to Power Attack with, but you'd get so much more room out of something like Wounding or Spellstoring or Holy or Collision.

From your feats, Great Cleave is bad. At high levels, Cleave is really nice because you should do enough damage to drop at least one foe a round in a 3-6 enemy encounter. With a reach weapon, you can usually 5' step yourself into a position to be able to claim your Cleave attack every round until everything is dead. Great Cleave, however, is only good for 1 thing at that level...stripping Mirror Images off a mage. Thats way to circumstantial to be worth a feat, even if you have tons of feats to spare.

Short Haft, likewise, is crap. I wouldn't take it there, or anywhere.

Matthew
2010-07-01, 03:12 PM
What does the rest of the party look like? Any chance of the game master permitting the leadership feat? That way you could at least control some more varied characters in combat, maybe even spice up events outside of that. What are the things the rest of the party is doing that look like more fun? Is it just the basic old fighter/wizard issue or are you just not being offered the chance to interact with the "dungeon" apart from fighting its denizens?

If your game master is all hot and heavy against Tome of Battle, it might be possible to work out with him some set combat actions that might make that element of the game more interesting.

Scorpina
2010-07-01, 03:13 PM
Short Haft, likewise, is crap. I wouldn't take it there, or anywhere.

Would you take it with a glaive?
Would you take it in a cave?

Morph Bark
2010-07-01, 03:17 PM
If you're level 11 now, don't take Weapon Spec. next level. If you want even more damage output at that point, a level of barbarian for rage or going into kensai works better.

If ToB isn't allowed, you could ask if Tome of Magic (the Binder specifically) or Magic of Incarnum is allowed.

Ardent + Practiced Manifester could work too... but you'd come in rather late on that. Going into a martially psionic PrC after that could work though.

lsfreak
2010-07-01, 03:26 PM
Give him different, effective things to do. It would spice up things a lot if he had different things to do; at present it looks like all he can do right now is Spring Attack, full attack, and later, Overpowering Attack.

One might be to pick up Robilar's Gambit. Combined with Overpowering Attack, this gives him the option deciding between a) trying to smack something down himself, or b) hitting hard once and waiting to counterattack instead.

Shock Trooper can be good, even if you don't like the ubercharger thing. Smashing people into each other to trip them gives another option.

Replace Short Haft with armor spikes. You now threaten 5 and 10 feet, without the feat. Not quite a powerful attacks, but it saves you the feat for something else.

I'd consider trading out Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Spec for other options. They're pretty small +bonuses, but to keep a character interesting, you really need more options.

Panigg
2010-07-01, 03:27 PM
Don't worry about the higher level (11+) stuff. That was just for fun.

What I'm looking for is basically doing some of the ToB stuff, but without having access to them. My DM said specifically no ToB.

I just talked to him tho and he said I can retrain up to three levels. So I could exchange three levels of fighter for scout, for example.

I'm not really looking to increase the damage even more. The damage is fine. Just the other night I dropped 3 large creatures in 2 rounds by myself.

The rest of the party is a cleric, a knight and a summoner wizard.

I thought about Robilar's Gambit too, obviously. Especially since we are on a campaign where this guy place a big role. :) Maybe I can pick it up after we fight him.

Control is not my chars forte. He's the primary damage dealer and I'm not looking to change that. I'm just looking for a couple extra ways to get there and maybe giving some of the glory to my team as well. I really don't like killing everything by myself, while the rest is standing behind the knight.

Keld Denar
2010-07-01, 03:28 PM
Would you take it with a glaive?
Would you take it in a cave?

I do not like weak feats, dear Scorpina
I wouldn't take them as a ballerina.

There are VERY few situations when you can't take a 5' step and attack at range. If you are trying to play a control character, you are better off spending the feat you'd spend on Short Haft on EWP: Spiked Chain to cover the gap. If you arne't a control character, you generally can take a 5' step to full attack. The only time you really can't is if you are in REALLY cramped quarters or if you are enlarged (and thus have a 10' dead zone). If you anticipate either of these 2 being common, just spend the danged feat on EWP and use the Chain. Relying on Short Haft is foolish, as is relying on Armor Spikes or a Spiked Gauntlet, since light weapons can't be PAed with. Plus, the OP has the whole Spring Attack line of feats, so even in non-full attack situations, he/she can still SA and get 3 iteratives in, even if the 4th is lost.

Panigg
2010-07-01, 04:15 PM
I think I'm going with abjurant champion.

I'll have to switch some stats around but otherwise that seems like a fine choice to me.

Greenish
2010-07-01, 04:21 PM
I think I'm going with abjurant champion.

I'll have to switch some stats around but otherwise that seems like a fine choice to me.If you can scrape together enough int, retraining 3 levels of fighter for wiz1/AC2 gives you a few tricks, yeah.

[Edit]: Other options would be a dip into barbarian & extra rage, which is pretty potent, and the good old cleric 1 dip for a couple of devotion feats and turning to power them.

You could ask if you can ditch the spring attack line and then retrain three fighter levels to barbarian 2/cleric 1. Barbarian gives you Pounce, Whirling Frenzy and Improved Trip, while cleric gets you Travel Devotion (move your speed as a swift action) and, for example, magic domain granted power that allows you to use all wands with wizard spells in them (in addition to cleric spells that you can activate by default).

Pounce allows you to move up to twice your speed and full attack, and then travel devotion allows you to move your speed away. The combination makes spring attack chain look just as crappy as it is.

Quietus
2010-07-01, 04:26 PM
Consider some Ranger (favored environment option?) along with Horizon Walker? Gives you some neat bonuses to skills and such, a little Fatigue immunity, and with level 6, Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds. Full BAB if memory serves, too, so it'd keep your power attack valuable... and if you drop a level into Barbarian, you can really put that fatigue immunity to use.

Morph Bark
2010-07-01, 05:14 PM
If you can scrape together enough int, retraining 3 levels of fighter for wiz1/AC2 gives you a few tricks, yeah.

This. Ask your DM if you can at least retrain that last Fighter level, considering level 11 gives you nothing.

herrhauptmann
2010-07-01, 06:26 PM
No ToB just means no martial classes right? There's a few feats in there that are for all characters. Particularly desert wind dodge. It states specifically that it works as a prereq for anything that requires dodge.

I've used slashing fury, all in all, the -5 to attack wasn't worth getting an extra attack. (level 15 game, custom boots of haste, so my full attack with haste was +15/+15/+10/+5, with hasted slashing fury +10/+10/+10/+5/+0). But like you said, that's in the future.

Didn't Elan's mother say something about crossclass skills being the key to a rewarding and enjoyable life?
Purchasing a +3 weapon or armour is unnecessary if you have a consistent source of buffs (greater magic weapon). I only put it on a weapon if I want the greater weapon/armour crystals.
Stack steadfast boots with your speed. Now you're automatically set against a charge :) Also, boots of the battlecharger, all in MiC.
Durable enhancement for your armour. Everbright for your weapons, they're both flat cost. Laugh at rust monsters.