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View Full Version : Dice are like little caltrops filled with irony



Kuma Da
2010-07-01, 08:48 PM
So, I'm playing a kingmaker game.

Spoiler: there are bandits.

I'm playing the world's most inanely charismatic apothecary, who doesn't much like killing people. He decides to try and recruit them all.

The DM and I go back and forth RP'ing the exchange for about 45 minutes. I offer the bandits a kingdom, talk about how hard it is to live in the woods, promise that they'll become the hallowed protectors of the greenbelt. Finally, the DM calls for rolls.

Me: Aw, crap.
DM: What? Your diplomacy is like a +5.
Me: Yeah, but I'm gonna roll a one.

I do.

Everyone: :smalleek:
DM: Uh...that was maybe unfair. Make two more rolls.

Twenty and twenty.

Me: ...so, I win?

---

So, anyone else have any good dice luck stories?

Ingus
2010-07-02, 04:59 AM
I do concur with the title.
Once, our D&D party met a huge, terrific demon I don't remember which. It was, this I remember well, 4 CR up the average party level (5th, in effect, risk of TPK.)
DM rolled a 1 on initiative, so the moster was last.
Then, war cleric strenght maxed charges in and he scores a crit with his greataxe: 1d12+9 damage x3.
My bold rogue, hidden, howls "Sneak attack! Sneak attack!" and fires 2 arrows.
1d8+3d6, 1d8x3+3d6 (yes, two hits, one critical).
Our wiz fired on him a shrink, huge rock to 6d6 damage.
And, at the end... 6th lvl barbarian raged, charged, and power attacked+shook trooped the poor, flanked demon.
As you can imagine, he even scored a crit.
That demon fell and our elven female bard said "so? can't I hit the bad guy?"

Same session, after a few while

Same 6th level barbarian, just a bit scratched, was ambushed by a single kobold, throwing him alchemist's fire. He raged and charged (power attack+shock trooper again). Unfortunately, the kobold had prepared his longspear against charges. Obviously, when things goes bad, they can only go worst: he scored a critical. He so managed to do 28 damages (plus 5 of burning). Worst, the barbarian missed.
Even worst, the DM rolled a 6 on burning damage and then, thank to shock trooper, hitted again, to 5 more damages.
The almost dead barbarian, then ran.

So, if you ask the party a pearl of wisdom, they would tell you: "Demons are weak like a 5 years old baby. But, for Gods' sake, leave kobolds alone, man!

Snake-Aes
2010-07-02, 05:06 AM
You know, when it is time to blow your cover and go for the McGuffin at full speed?
You even got a surprise round and won initiative, and are fully buffed and fully rested.
You even managed to reach the McGuffin with the charge attack.
You then are all happy about it and say, since it's an object: "+5 power attack channeling shocking grasp"
<rolls 1>
¬.¬
And on the second round you're ready to go again!
"+5 power attack channeling shocking grasp with a quickened true strike"
<rolls 1>
fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

Angelmaker
2010-07-02, 05:21 AM
In D&D 4th edition my players once slaughtered my encounter, they really did.

But ONE single minion broke through the ranks and managed to NOT GET HIT 3 consecutive rounds even though my players unleashed a barrage of encounter and at will powers at the poor hobgoblin minion. He drove them before him, hitting them each and every round for pitiful 5 damage.

Finally, they got him, after maybe what was like 15 or 16 missed attacks.

Ah, he was one missed attack short before I decided I would make him a solo minion. :smallbiggrin:

Project_Mayhem
2010-07-02, 06:44 AM
That would be why we roll less frequently in my group - if its stupid that you'd fail, you don't.

Shademan
2010-07-02, 07:31 AM
well, once the Dm said "I'll get REALLy happy if you roll a 1"
and the other player did indeed roll a 1
and there was much merriment in camp

Iceforge
2010-07-02, 07:51 AM
So, I'm playing a kingmaker game.

Spoiler: there are bandits.

I'm playing the world's most inanely charismatic apothecary, who doesn't much like killing people. He decides to try and recruit them all.

The DM and I go back and forth RP'ing the exchange for about 45 minutes. I offer the bandits a kingdom, talk about how hard it is to live in the woods, promise that they'll become the hallowed protectors of the greenbelt. Finally, the DM calls for rolls.

Me: Aw, crap.
DM: What? Your diplomacy is like a +5.
Me: Yeah, but I'm gonna roll a one.

I do.

Everyone: :smalleek:
DM: Uh...that was maybe unfair. Make two more rolls.

Twenty and twenty.

Me: ...so, I win?

---

So, anyone else have any good dice luck stories?

Well, that is why there is failing and there is screwing things up completely.

If you had made a good case, I would as a DM called for you to re-roll your diplomacy, but instead make your natural 1 mean something without ruining the last 45 minuts of roleplaying.

Maybe the bandits agree that you make a sweet offer and if your words are true, they are indeed willing to take it, but they sense something being off about you, not sure if they can actually trust you, so before they are willing to trust you, you have to do X (quest) to prove your honesty to them or they would demand to be put in charge of the mission that would give them the kingdom, as they would not trust you to not double-play them, if they let you be in charge.

I know, easy to sit here afterwards and second guess the calling of a DM, but if DMs just call for re-rolls when the dice does not end up with a desired result, then there is no point of the dice being rolled at all!

The only time I will let someone "re-roll" or readjust something after a dice has been rolled, is if the result is detrimental to the groups enjoyment of the game, like someone dying on the first night of play with a character he spend many hours making and fleshing out.

Kaiyanwang
2010-07-02, 08:02 AM
I remember a very messed up combat, my PC versus a bunch of demon.

Demonic reinforcements continued to come, but with a little bit of battlefield control my players managed to split them and isolate the best targets.

One target must be charged by the fighter//knight, to be slauhgtered (shocktrooper).

Second target, approached by the psywar//rogue, to be tripped and smashed on the ground.

Tertiary target, hit by the Beguiler//Ranger, likely to be slowed (staggering critical), but likely to be finished off even without a crit (very powerful but they managed to drop his HP previously).

Well, they made an "1" in all the three hit rolls, the same turn. They SWEARED a lot to resist the demonic counterattacks.

The FUN. :smallbiggrin:

Kuma Da
2010-07-02, 11:07 AM
If you had made a good case, I would as a DM called for you to re-roll your diplomacy, but instead make your natural 1 mean something without ruining the last 45 minuts of roleplaying.

Oh, that's basically what happened, Ice. The leader I was trying to parlay with ordered her minions to attack me, and then her minions started shooting at her. :smallbiggrin:

9mm
2010-07-02, 11:19 AM
I am famous at my group for clutch 20s... with a streak record of 7.

Hague
2010-07-02, 11:41 AM
I'm still not sure why people continue to believe that you fail on a 1 with a skill check...

Yeah, and Diplomacy is stupid. Use Rich's rules there in the Gaming Section, MUCH better.

Telonius
2010-07-02, 12:13 PM
In D&D 4th edition my players once slaughtered my encounter, they really did.

But ONE single minion broke through the ranks and managed to NOT GET HIT 3 consecutive rounds even though my players unleashed a barrage of encounter and at will powers at the poor hobgoblin minion. He drove them before him, hitting them each and every round for pitiful 5 damage.

Finally, they got him, after maybe what was like 15 or 16 missed attacks.

Ah, he was one missed attack short before I decided I would make him a solo minion. :smallbiggrin:

Sounds like one of the mooks in a Shackled City adventure I'm currently running. The characters were about level 5, and facing a bunch of level 1 warriors. This is supposed to be an easy encounter, and they drop all but one of the bad guys in a single round. But that last dude must have had levels in Ninja I didn't know about. Not only does he avoid getting hit by the Warblade, the Druid, the Druid's Animal Companion, and the Rogue/Artificer, he manages to deal about 20 points of damage before the party Monk (houseruled to get full BAB) clobbers him into unconsciousness with subdual damage.

He's now a recurring NPC.

Dizlag
2010-07-02, 12:56 PM
Hackmaster Basic ... DM rolls 10 natural 20s in the first hour. We all survived, but whoa! His record is 15 natural 20s in one session ... brings a whole new meaning to the word "Ouch!".

Dizlag

Kuma Da
2010-07-02, 03:47 PM
I'm still not sure why people continue to believe that you fail on a 1 with a skill check...

Yeah, and Diplomacy is stupid. Use Rich's rules there in the Gaming Section, MUCH better.

Rich's rules are, imo, an attempt to fix something that cannot be fixed. Diplomacy is an RP thing. I prefer to keep it diceless, only using a roll when someone calls for one. That way you have an index of how generally persuasive your character is, but you don't have to talk through every single encounter.

But that's sort of off topic. On topic, one of my gaming groups has a running joke that when the DM wins initiative, we all die.

DM was running Age of Worms once (which, by the way, is bat**** insane,) and the first encounter, three starving wolves, went first and wiped the party. I have never seen such stunning canine trip-abuse. We didn't manage to kill any of them.

CubeB
2010-07-02, 03:55 PM
Mutants and Masterminds. We're all fighting a giant mutant leech in an underwater cavern.

The Leech as an autohit attack that goes off every round, an AoE Psychic attack, and a Nauseating Aura.

In addition, half the party's powers didn't work. The ones that had effective powers either had a bad Fort Save (and were too busy vomiting to help) or a bad will save (and were knocked out by the psychic attack).

In addition, the Leech is shrugging off all our attacks. So finally, one of us climbs out of the water, and bribes our guides (Who are a bunch of bughunting mercs) to help us. They dive in, use their chemical assault weapon...

And the Leech rolls a one on it's toughness save. We were all understandably annoyed.

Knaight
2010-07-02, 03:58 PM
I was playtesting a combat system, in which a normal distribution of rolls would be really awesome. Fudge system 4dF, each die has a +, - and blank on it (well 2 of each technically, but it was online). My average roll for the playtest was a -2.5 or so, which is absurdly unlikely. I had a grand total of 1 roll over 0, again, absurdly unlikely (you have about a 40% chance for each roll to be over 0, there were over 10 rolls as it was a long play test.)

sofawall
2010-07-02, 03:59 PM
Roleplaying Diplomacy only works well if you are level 1 and don't have a very high charisma. Anything above that is almost certainly above the ability of any of your players to accurately roleplay.

Also, if you have a barbarian with no ranks and a 6 cha, the player better roleplay his disability well, or that barbarian may be better at diplomacy than the Bard who has skill focus in it.

Thiyr
2010-07-02, 04:21 PM
Ah, my favorite good luck roll story. Playing in a Hero System game, lower powered. Being my first game in the system and having no clue what I wanted to do, I was playing a character somewhat based on Gene Starwind, built by the DM. He had 1d6 of unluck. Highly unpleasant, even if it could be worse. Throughout the game, he's had mixed luck, has had his car (one of the few things around him he could keep working) get crushed by a werewolf, has been blinded by government ops, and had a scare about being arrested for carrying around a realistic looking but "non-functional" gun before being told to put an orange saftey tip on it. Then he finds out how to get the gun working.

On to the BBEG encounter. Our party is looking for a friend who's getting sacrificed to an evil cult, which is being protected by a large group of mind-controled werewolves. werewolves are distracted. I move around. First time shooting my big gun, a big investment of the character. I make a called shot to the face, as the person was close by and had to interrupt my friend from getting sacrificed. I roll...a 3. 3d6 system, want to roll low. I crit. The gun does a ton of damage normally. I turned the BBEG from a difficult encounter into what has become something of a running description in our group, a fine red mist.

"There's nothing wrong with you that a critical to the eyes won't cure." Indeed

Escheton
2010-07-02, 04:24 PM
Vampire brothel in marshland. The barbarian went upstairs with 2 of the ladys. The rest of the party with 1. The dwarven cleric of some sungod remembered it was day and opened the curtains after his lady turned on him. The rogue simply bolted the room to have the naked cleric then in the hallway turn her. The barbarian got some condmg before grabbing his greataxe and slaughtering the 2 vampirespawns. The wizard blasted his respective foe. The sorcerer was completely forgotten in the commotion but the player was moving away anyways and it was a neat way of killing off his char.
All bucknaked run down with only a weapon, hit the cellar/dungeon. The barbarian first, gets impaled by a minotaur vampirespawn that readied an action. -8. So whoever had the cure light wand goes for it. Unfortunately to get one that wasn't completely full and outta their spending range they bought one that slightly malfunctioned. It would cast inflict on 5 or lower on a percentiledie at casting.
Guess what I rolled...

ryzouken
2010-07-02, 04:27 PM
Heehee, this story still induces cringes in me when I think of it.

Pathfinder strict: Legacy of Fire Adventure Path.
I had just managed to kill the party fighter during the fight with the Carrion King (who is a beast! I swear they just started adding abilities to that guy after a while). Player rolls up a replacement druid since reincarnate and the like was beyond our party's grasp. The party proceeds into a deeper area of the complex and sees a large lion (the druid wild shaped) desperately fending off the attacks of 4 rasts. Initiative is rolled, Rasts go first. 16 attacks (each of the rasts has 4 claws for a full attack) roll up as: 6 misses, 7 crits, 3 normal hits.

I almost killed the druid in flavor text, while introducing his character.

Of course, this isn't an isolated event. My percentile dice treat 50% fail chance as 25% fail chance (it's like they sense what they need to roll to evade attacks!) and rare is the combat where crits aren't rolled. I'm glad my group is decent at optimization, else plain luck would've driven us to diceless gaming.

Kuma Da
2010-07-02, 04:49 PM
Roleplaying Diplomacy only works well if you are level 1 and don't have a very high charisma. Anything above that is almost certainly above the ability of any of your players to accurately roleplay.

Also, if you have a barbarian with no ranks and a 6 cha, the player better roleplay his disability well, or that barbarian may be better at diplomacy than the Bard who has skill focus in it.

For me, roleplaying diplomacy isn't so much about playing to the numbers. Example, I might be bright, but I can't play to an int or wisdom of 20. That's way beyond the capacity of basically all players, unless you let some of the meaning wash out of the numbers and oh, a 20 only means you're sorta smart.

I've been in games where people were like "you rolled a fifteen, play to that level of diplomatic," and it just didn't sit right with me. By roleplaying diplomacy, most of what I mean is 'roleplay your character trying to be diplomatic, and then if we need to we'll dice to see what happens.' I wouldn't get too mad at a character for being diplomatic with a 6 cha, but I would if, say, a hardened mercenary started talking like an aristocratic fop the moment he put his diplomacy hat on.

Your example with the barbarian and the bard could go one of a few ways. Let's say that the barbarain player is extremely socially savvy irl, and the bard player is not. The bard can just roll some dice and pass the encounter. The barbarian has to really work for it. He has to convince the NPC so thoroughly that people agree no roll is needed. If there's any doubt, it goes to dice and he's hosed.

On the other hand, suppose we've got a bard played by James Bond. The things he's going to be able to do with a decent charisma stat and max ranks diplomacy absolutely boggled the mind.

The upshot of this is threefold. Firstly, it means you don't have to be a martial artist to play a monk. Secondly, it means that if you are a martial artist, you can bring that to the table when you play a monk. Thirdly, it makes the game as social as the players want it to be, and sometimes it is reasonable for a horrible, smelly, old man to bring up a point that his lovely, lute-strumming supermodel friend missed.

Wow, that was needlessly long.

sofawall
2010-07-02, 05:47 PM
So basically, what you are saying is people should only play what they do in real life if they don't want to get overshadowed by someone with the exact same numerical abilities? Isn't the point of RPGs that you are able to be something you aren't?

Snake-Aes
2010-07-02, 06:02 PM
So basically, what you are saying is people should only play what they do in real life if they don't want to get overshadowed by someone with the exact same numerical abilities? Isn't the point of RPGs that you are able to be something you aren't?

No, he's saying that if your character has an ability that you don't have, you don't have to be able to reproduce it IRL. You can just trust the number there to make it work.

huttj509
2010-07-02, 06:29 PM
What I favor is where the words uttered can provide a circumstance modifier, but the roll is the bulk, unless a diplomatic 'nuke' option is brought in.

If you're trying to make nice with an initial neutral-friendly NPC, and you offer him the legendary item you know he's lookin for, he's probably gonna say 'sure' to your request, no roll, unless he's been predetermined to be the type to try to just grab the item, or the favor you're asking will risk his soul, or something. That'd be what I consider a 'nuke' option.

If you posit a good argument, like, quite convincing, I'd give +1 to even +5 depending on how good it was, but you'd still have the chance for the NPC to just 'not buy it' if you roll poorly. Maybe he just doesn't trust the stuttering Half-Orc, even if the offer seems good. Maybe the offer seems TOO good.

However, if the 6 int 6 wis 6 cha kept coming up with really good offers, silvertongued player, etc, I'd possibly tone down my bonuses, or limit above +2 to once per few sessions. Not cutting the guy off entirely, but maybe discuss with him a bit out of game if it seems like he's trying to min his minimized scores through RP, though in general RP's what I'd want to encourage.

Similarly, if someone flubs an out of character bluff check, I'd be really hard pressed to have an auto-fail. It may give a penalty to the roll though, but there I'd tend towards lesser penalties.

True story: Playing 2e with friends and brother. Trying to get into a tower without killing anyone, cause they're charmed townspeople. High cha charachter, played by my brother, says he has a note for the wizard of the tower. "Well, give it here and let me take it to him" "It was a verbal note"

DM deemed auto-fail, I probably woulda given a -1 penalty, given him a chance to say "I mean message, for his ears only," etc. The players all agreed the character was much more charismatic than the player. I enjoy the story, it tends to embarrass my brother. Gosh, can't imagine why...we were ~15 or so, BTW, DM was couple years younger.

sofawall
2010-07-02, 06:51 PM
No, he's saying that if your character has an ability that you don't have, you don't have to be able to reproduce it IRL. You can just trust the number there to make it work.

Well, that's roughly one third of what he is saying, as far as I can tell. His actual post seems to agree with me, too.


The upshot of this is threefold.

Ranger Mattos
2010-07-02, 08:39 PM
Just yesterday I rolled a natural 20 on an initiative roll. Great, I thought, now I'm going to do bad on my attack roll. Sure enough, I roll a 1 :smallannoyed:.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-07-02, 08:43 PM
In D&D 4th edition my players once slaughtered my encounter, they really did.

But ONE single minion broke through the ranks and managed to NOT GET HIT 3 consecutive rounds even though my players unleashed a barrage of encounter and at will powers at the poor hobgoblin minion. He drove them before him, hitting them each and every round for pitiful 5 damage.

Finally, they got him, after maybe what was like 15 or 16 missed attacks.

Ah, he was one missed attack short before I decided I would make him a solo minion. :smallbiggrin:

Reposting a similar story of mine:

We're trying to stop a bunch of goblins and kobolds from summoning Tiamat to the Prime to wreak destruction on everything. Our party consists of a favored soul/crusader (me), a paladin, a ranger, a druid, a cleric, a wizard/war mage, and a satyr bard. Seven level 4 characters can handle basically anything, right? Right?

We've basically finished clearing out the latest castle of goblins, have found all the clues, items, and McGuffins we need, and are preparing to leave. The last fight was insanely hard, so we're all down to single- or low-double-digit HP and almost out of spells, but I used up all my healing spells and the cleric spontaneously inflicts, so we can't heal yet

DM: So you head out of the room, triumphant, and--hold on. I missed one goblin in the last fight.
Ranger: Come on, it's one goblin; can we just skip him?
DM: Well, I've made the encounters so you get exactly to 5th level; no goblin, no level up.
Wizard: I WANT FIREBALL. Let's kill him!
*Party agrees*
DM: Okay. *ahem* As you leave the room, you see a door slam shut at the end of the hall.
Ranger: Did I see anything enter?
DM: Why yes. A goblin, in fact.
Ranger: What a coincidence. Shall we?
*Party walks to the door*
DM: The door is unlocked. It's a regular wooden door with a small window in it.
Cleric: Hmm...looks like a trap. I look through the slot.
DM: You see a small goblin holding a heavy crossbow...aiming it at your face.
Cleric: Oh no, it's a goblin. Whatever shall I do?
DM: *rolls d20* Crit! *rolls damage* Max! 10 damage, times 2. 20 damage.
Cleric: :smallfurious:
DM: What?
Cleric: ...I have 8 HP.
DM: Oo...kay. :smallconfused: A bolt lodges in the cleric's skull, dropping him in one hit.
Party: :smalleek:
Wizard: What the **** was that!?
DM: That was a Monster Manual-standard goblin with a heavy crossbow and a readied action.
Ranger: Kill the bastard!
*The paladin and I get in position by the door; the ranger, wizard, and druid get in back; the satyr opens the door*
Paladin: CHARGE! SMITE EVIL! *rolls d20* A 1!
DM: The paladin charges up and swings right over the goblin's head; the goblin doesn't even try to dodge, but continues cranking his crossbow. Next?
Favored Soul: FOR KORD! I run up and Mountain Hammer his ass. *rolls d20* Another 1! Crap!
DM: :smallbiggrin: The favored soul charges up and swings right over the goblin's head, barely missing the paladin; the goblin doesn't even try to dodge, but continues cranking his crossbow.
Druid: That's it. My animal companion charges too. *rolls d20* Another 1!? Holy ****, somebody bought loaded dice!
DM: :smallamused: The wolf charges up and bumps into the wall, barely missing the favored soul; the goblin's cranking his crossbow.
Druid: I'm going to ready an action to cast flaming sphere when everyone's out of the way or if he tries to escape.
DM: Fine. Next?
Ranger: Can I attack from here?
DM: You can...but the paladin, favored soul, and wolf together provide cover.
Ranger: I'll risk it. *rolls* 7, plus 11; 18.
DM: That's a...*checks goblin's AC*...heh.
Ranger: What?
DM: With the cover, you miss. He doesn't bother to dodge and--
Ranger: Let me guess. He keeps cranking his crossbow?
DM: Yup. Crank...crank...crank....:smallbiggrin:
Wizard: Damn him! I want 5th level! *checks sheet* I'm out of magic missiles, dammit...Yes! Scorching ray! *rolls* It's...not higher than an 18. :smallfrown:
DM: Crank...crank...crank...crank....
Wizard: Wait! Touch attack! What's his touch AC?
DM: 12.
Wizard: Dammit. :smallyuk:
Druid: Still didn't hit!? Okay, that's it! I hope you guys can take a flaming sphere, 'cause I'm taking this sucker down! Flaming sphere on his space.
DM: So that's a reflex save, DC? *checks sheet* Okay... *rolls* ...uh...
Druid: And...?
DM: :smallbiggrin: Crank...crank...crank...crank....crank.. .crank...crank...crank....
Party: GODS DAMMIT!
Satyr: Come on, luck, don't fail me now...I throw my daggers. *rolls* *rolls* *looks at dice* *looks at DM* *looks at dice*
DM: :smalltongue:
Satyr: You know what? **** you and your goblins.
DM: And...it's the goblin's turn. It's a full-round action to reload, so he takes a 5-foot step back from the flaming sphere and keeps cranking, and cranking, and cranking, and cranking....Next?
Paladin: Well, I can't risk the damage at this point, so I'm gonna retreat. Guys?
Favored soul: Same.
Druid: My wolf comes back, too. Give the ranger a clear shot.
DM: Okay. Next is the ranger.
Ranger: Rapid shot. *rolls* *rolls* Let's see, that's a 14 and 16 total.
Wizard: Goblins have 15 AC! You got him!
DM: Rapid shot is -2 to each. Did you take that into account?
Ranger: ...uh...no. 12 and 14.
DM: :smallbiggrin: Crank...crank...crank...crank...crank... .
Wizard: Fine. I don't have anything left that will help. Bard?
Satyr: Daggers again, son of a succubus! *rolls* *rolls* A 1 and a 2 plus 9. Dammitdammitdammitdammit....
DM: Aaaand...the goblin goes. He shoots at the wizard. *rolls* 18 total. Damage...*rolls*...8.
Wizard: I have 2.
DM: The goblin stops cranking his crossbow, levels it at the wizard, and takes him in the chest. He drops. The goblin then flees. :smallcool:
Paladin: We can't leave the wizard, and if we split up the party...
Favored soul: DON'T. SPLIT. THE. PARTY. With our luck, who knows how many other goblins there are?
DM: So he gets away?
Party: Yes. :smallredface:
DM: You do realize he was a standard goblin right?
Party: Yes. :smallannoyed:
DM: A single CR 1/3 creature held off a seven-person party of level 4 PCs, killing 1 and KOing 1?
Party: YES. :smallmad:
DM: I think I shall call him...Squee.
Party: RECURRING VILLAIN! WE'RE ****ED!
DM: :smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2010-07-02, 08:48 PM
Reposting a similar story of mine:

We're trying to stop a bunch of goblins and kobolds from summoning Tiamat to the Prime to wreak destruction on everything. Our party consists of a favored soul/crusader (me), a paladin, a ranger, a druid, a cleric, a wizard/war mage, and a satyr bard. Seven level 4 characters can handle basically anything, right? Right?

We've basically finished clearing out the latest castle of goblins, have found all the clues, items, and McGuffins we need, and are preparing to leave. The last fight was insanely hard, so we're all down to single- or low-double-digit HP and almost out of spells, but I used up all my healing spells and the cleric spontaneously inflicts, so we can't heal yet

DM: So you head out of the room, triumphant, and--hold on. I missed one goblin in the last fight.
Ranger: Come on, it's one goblin; can we just skip him?
DM: Well, I've made the encounters so you get exactly to 5th level; no goblin, no level up.
Wizard: I WANT FIREBALL. Let's kill him!
*Party agrees*
DM: Okay. *ahem* As you leave the room, you see a door slam shut at the end of the hall.
Ranger: Did I see anything enter?
DM: Why yes. A goblin, in fact.
Ranger: What a coincidence. Shall we?
*Party walks to the door*
DM: The door is unlocked. It's a regular wooden door with a small window in it.
Cleric: Hmm...looks like a trap. I look through the slot.
DM: You see a small goblin holding a heavy crossbow...aiming it at your face.
Cleric: Oh no, it's a goblin. Whatever shall I do?
DM: *rolls d20* Crit! *rolls damage* Max! 10 damage, times 2. 20 damage.
Cleric: :smallfurious:
DM: What?
Cleric: ...I have 8 HP.
DM: Oo...kay. :smallconfused: A bolt lodges in the cleric's skull, dropping him in one hit.
Party: :smalleek:
Wizard: What the **** was that!?
DM: That was a Monster Manual-standard goblin with a heavy crossbow and a readied action.
Ranger: Kill the bastard!
*The paladin and I get in position by the door; the ranger, wizard, and druid get in back; the satyr opens the door*
Paladin: CHARGE! SMITE EVIL! *rolls d20* A 1!
DM: The paladin charges up and swings right over the goblin's head; the goblin doesn't even try to dodge, but continues cranking his crossbow. Next?
Favored Soul: FOR KORD! I run up and Mountain Hammer his ass. *rolls d20* Another 1! Crap!
DM: :smallbiggrin: The favored soul charges up and swings right over the goblin's head, barely missing the paladin; the goblin doesn't even try to dodge, but continues cranking his crossbow.
Druid: That's it. My animal companion charges too. *rolls d20* Another 1!? Holy ****, somebody bought loaded dice!
DM: :smallamused: The wolf charges up and bumps into the wall, barely missing the favored soul; the goblin's cranking his crossbow.
Druid: I'm going to ready an action to cast flaming sphere when everyone's out of the way or if he tries to escape.
DM: Fine. Next?
Ranger: Can I attack from here?
DM: You can...but the paladin, favored soul, and wolf together provide cover.
Ranger: I'll risk it. *rolls* 7, plus 11; 18.
DM: That's a...*checks goblin's AC*...heh.
Ranger: What?
DM: With the cover, you miss. He doesn't bother to dodge and--
Ranger: Let me guess. He keeps cranking his crossbow?
DM: Yup. Crank...crank...crank....:smallbiggrin:
Wizard: Damn him! I want 5th level! *checks sheet* I'm out of magic missiles, dammit...Yes! Scorching ray! *rolls* It's...not higher than an 18. :smallfrown:
DM: Crank...crank...crank...crank....
Wizard: Wait! Touch attack! What's his touch AC?
DM: 12.
Wizard: Dammit. :smallyuk:
Druid: Still didn't hit!? Okay, that's it! I hope you guys can take a flaming sphere, 'cause I'm taking this sucker down! Flaming sphere on his space.
DM: So that's a reflex save, DC? *checks sheet* Okay... *rolls* ...uh...
Druid: And...?
DM: :smallbiggrin: Crank...crank...crank...crank....crank.. .crank...crank...crank....
Party: GODS DAMMIT!
Satyr: Come on, luck, don't fail me now...I throw my daggers. *rolls* *rolls* *looks at dice* *looks at DM* *looks at dice*
DM: :smalltongue:
Satyr: You know what? **** you and your goblins.
DM: And...it's the goblin's turn. It's a full-round action to reload, so he takes a 5-foot step back from the flaming sphere and keeps cranking, and cranking, and cranking, and cranking....Next?
Paladin: Well, I can't risk the damage at this point, so I'm gonna retreat. Guys?
Favored soul: Same.
Druid: My wolf comes back, too. Give the ranger a clear shot.
DM: Okay. Next is the ranger.
Ranger: Rapid shot. *rolls* *rolls* Let's see, that's a 14 and 16 total.
Wizard: Goblins have 15 AC! You got him!
DM: Rapid shot is -2 to each. Did you take that into account?
Ranger: ...uh...no. 12 and 14.
DM: :smallbiggrin: Crank...crank...crank...crank...crank... .
Wizard: Fine. I don't have anything left that will help. Bard?
Satyr: Daggers again, son of a succubus! *rolls* *rolls* A 1 and a 2 plus 9. Dammitdammitdammitdammit....
DM: Aaaand...the goblin goes. He shoots at the wizard. *rolls* 18 total. Damage...*rolls*...8.
Wizard: I have 2.
DM: The goblin stops cranking his crossbow, levels it at the wizard, and takes him in the chest. He drops. The goblin then flees. :smallcool:
Paladin: We can't leave the wizard, and if we split up the party...
Favored soul: DON'T. SPLIT. THE. PARTY. With our luck, who knows how many other goblins there are?
DM: So he gets away?
Party: Yes. :smallredface:
DM: You do realize he was a standard goblin right?
Party: Yes. :smallannoyed:
DM: A single CR 1/3 creature held off a seven-person party of level 4 PCs, killing 1 and KOing 1?
Party: YES. :smallmad:
DM: I think I shall call him...Squee.
Party: RECURRING VILLAIN! WE'RE ****ED!
DM: :smallbiggrin:

I've read this like 4 times now. I continue to giggle.

Makensha
2010-07-02, 08:51 PM
It was just the battle cleric and I (rogue) against three frog things (my DM comes up with monster's on the spot, and he's good at it) while our other were chopping down trees far off in the distance.

I shoot and miss. The three frogmen shoot and bring me down to 3 HP (From 14). The battle cleric get shot once, for 1 damage. He pulls the arrow out and lets out a battle cry, rolling a 17, and effectively terrifying the three frogmen. All three miss on their next attack. He charges the nearest one, crits and kills, and the other two Frogmen make a successful Think check and run away.

sofawall
2010-07-02, 09:04 PM
In my group, one player always goes last. His last character, a cleric with a +1 init mod followed the general trend quite nicely. One day, he rolled a nat 20 on initiative, and he whooped with delight. He whopped even louder when he saw I'd rolled a one.

DM: Initiative?
Cleric: 21 :smallcool:
Me: 21, higher modifier wins. :smallbiggrin:
Cleric: :smallfurious:

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-07-02, 09:26 PM
I've read this like 4 times now. I continue to giggle.

I aim to please. :smallbiggrin:

awa
2010-07-02, 09:28 PM
but he seems to also be saying if you the person can juggle 10 swords at a time his pc with 6 dex should be able to do so as well (at least if i read it correctly) in my opinion if your orc with 3 charisma makes an impassioned plea for assistance from the villagers you can probably insert the f word for the nouns it might sound good in his head (what the player says) but it comes out of the players mouth all wrong. Becuase a 3 charisma charecter who was actualy articulate and such would be poorly roleplayed.

arguskos
2010-07-02, 09:33 PM
I aim to please. :smallbiggrin:
Indeed. The only good die stories I have involve either my Player Killer (this orange d20 that just slaughters through PCs; I don't use it much anymore) or this one time a fellow player of mine decided he was gonna dual-wield pistols... without proficiencies... and he was going to quick draw them in pairs....

Ok, so, he has 8 flintlocks, and this massive cannon-like thing that he'd never fired and no one knew what it even DID (the DM forgot even). He manages to get a surprise round against the BBEG (don't ask, it was creative). Surprise round, he goes and no one else does. He has four attacks. There are 6 mooks, the BBEG (an evil sorcerer) and his blackguard bodyguard. The player with the flintlocks (shooting at like a -8 total on each attack) guns down four mooks in the surprise round. He then wins initiative. He shoots down the last two mooks, pulls his two remaining pistols, and takes aim at the BBEG and the blackguard. At this point, he'd rolled 18+ 6 times now. We were all amazed he'd hit anything. So, when the dice come up crits on them BOTH, we're floored. He confirms, and rolls ANOTHER pair of 20s! He then manages to deal max damage with each shot, dropping the BBEG and the blackguard in a single round.

The DM practically cried. He decided to have the demon he had planned anyways show up now. We all got to reroll initiatives. GunMan goes first... AGAIN. He pulls the cannon-thing, points it at the demon, and says "I've never been so lucky. Let's do this!" and fires. It turns out, it launches a blast of flame and a cannonball at the same time. The demon had ironguard and was immune to fire. GunMan died horribly, but lives on in my memory for his 1 rounding an entire boss fight through massive penalties.

awa
2010-07-02, 09:38 PM
I once had an npc ally of the pcs with extreme reach and the mechanical equivalent of great cleave kill 37 out of 40 mooks on her first turn before any of the pcs got to go. And then the mooks went before the pcs and one made the mistake of moving and it dropped the last 3.
Sure these mooks were pretty weak (in the grand scheme of things) and the pcs would have destroyed them in just a couple rounds but the sheer slaughter was impressive.

edit that was bad even for me that will teach me to type in a hurry

sofawall
2010-07-02, 09:47 PM
i once had an npc ally of the pcs with extreem and the mechanical equvilent of great cleave kill 37 out of 40 mooks on her first turn before any of the pcs got to go. And then the mooks went before the pcs and one made the mistake of moving and it droped the last 2.
Shure these mooks were pretty weak (in the grand scheme of things) and the pcs would have destroyed them in just a couple rounds but the sheer slaughter was impresive.


What is this "extreem"? :smallconfused:

Kuma Da
2010-07-03, 12:00 AM
No, he's saying that if your character has an ability that you don't have, you don't have to be able to reproduce it IRL. You can just trust the number there to make it work.

Thank you for the save, sir. That's exactly what I meant.

And to round up any further questions, Sofa and Awa, I'm not saying that if you can do it perfectly your character can too. Frankly, it might not be in character to succeed sometimes. If you're a juggler and your character's a klutz, he's probably not going to be able to manage three flaming chainsaws.

What I like seeing, though, is when someone's personal experience informs their gaming. That word is important. It's not "you auto-succeed at punching someone because you know kung-fu." It's "you know the basics of aikido, and you describe a really awesome grapple evade, so you get a bonus to your roll."

I realize it can potentially unbalance things. Maybe a player has studied a whole whackton of ninjitsu, and they play the most bad*** rogue the world has ever seen. Their skills give them an edge with their class that the other players don't have. However, in my experience, this tends to increase everyone's enjoyment of the game. As much as it can be about pretending to be something you're not, DnD can also be about immersion. And throwing that little pinch of something-you-are into the game adds a lot to the immersion.

But, honestly? W/e. We have different DM styles. There's nothing wrong with that, and I don't really have an issue with more aggressively balanced gaming.

sofawall
2010-07-03, 12:19 AM
Thank you for the save, sir. That's exactly what I meant.

What about the whole 'getting a bonus for being good at something in real life' bit?

Kuma Da
2010-07-03, 12:30 AM
Edited my previous post. Hopefully that clears some stuff up?

Getting things back on track: Pair O' Dice, that story blows mine out of the water. I hope that goblin went on to punch Balors through themselves. Anything less would be an anti-climax.

Susano-wo
2010-07-03, 12:01 PM
ok, I gotta ask:+20 INit?? how (and possibly why?) did you get +20??

Math_Mage
2010-07-03, 12:06 PM
ok, I gotta ask:+20 INit?? how (and possibly why?) did you get +20??

Dex + Imp. Initiative + Warning + Nerveskitter is already there, if you manage 24 Dex between level-ups and items. That's if Warning and Nerveskitter stack, which, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. I'm sure there are lots of other ways to get +Init.

EDIT: Can't find Warning. Well, Roaring (for armor) gives a +4 boost and reflects nonmagical projectiles to boot.

Susano-wo
2010-07-03, 12:27 PM
Dex + Imp. Initiative + Warning + Nerveskitter is already there, if you manage 24 Dex between level-ups and items. That's if Warning and Nerveskitter stack, which, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. I'm sure there are lots of other ways to get +Init.

EDIT: Can't find Warning. Well, Roaring (for armor) gives a +4 boost and reflects nonmagical projectiles to boot.

Heh, I guess I'm just ignorant of a lot of that stuff. I'm all "even with a +10dex mod for some reason and Improved Init, that's +14..". THough it does seem like a lot of time involved. Warning and Nerveskitter...those are in SpC, right? SO he's probably a Wwwwwwwizard >.> FOr some reason I assumed rogue..silly me ^ ^

Siosilvar
2010-07-03, 12:32 PM
Heh, I guess I'm just ignorant of a lot of that stuff. I'm all "even with a +10dex mod for some reason and Improved Init, that's +14..". THough it does seem like a lot of time involved. Warning and Nerveskitter...those are in SpC, right? SO he's probably a Wwwwwwwizard >.> FOr some reason I assumed rogue..silly me ^ ^

Warning is a weapon enhancement that adds a +5 insight bonus to Initiative. It costs the same as another +1 bonus... I can't remember what book it's in.

stenver
2010-07-03, 12:36 PM
Rich's rules are, imo, an attempt to fix something that cannot be fixed. Diplomacy is an RP thing. I prefer to keep it diceless, only using a roll when someone calls for one. That way you have an index of how generally persuasive your character is, but you don't have to talk through every single encounter.
.

You gotta understand that when a character has +35 to his diplomacy through skill ja spells alone, then its far beyond any of our ability to RP it through and i usually boils down to "I try to explain this to him through my insane talking ability"

someone who even on 1 rules 36 can still convince almost anyone do anything, while in real life we might have a lot more trouble convincing that red dragon not to eat them for launch, because they actually can be useful for something else. At this level its normal to keep it "I try calm the red dragon down and offer him my help, do i roll a diplomacy?" "Yes."

Susano-wo
2010-07-03, 12:38 PM
I thought the original stipulation was anyone above lvl 1 with mod charisma is too diplomatic to be RP'd by anyone...there's a lot of room between that and +36diplomacy

Math_Mage
2010-07-03, 12:46 PM
Heh, I guess I'm just ignorant of a lot of that stuff. I'm all "even with a +10dex mod for some reason and Improved Init, that's +14..". THough it does seem like a lot of time involved. Warning and Nerveskitter...those are in SpC, right? SO he's probably a Wwwwwwwizard >.> FOr some reason I assumed rogue..silly me ^ ^

Nerveskitter can be cast off a wand easily enough--and the casting is immediate action, to boot, after the errata that wand casting times take as long as the spells they're charged with. The rest is items and attributes.


Warning is a weapon enhancement that adds a +5 insight bonus to Initiative. It costs the same as another +1 bonus... I can't remember what book it's in.

MIC, p. 46. Thought it was an Armor enhancement, which is why I couldn't find it. Thanks!

Aaanyway...the only funny thing I remember from my dice rolls is at the beginning of my first campaign ever, when I dropped a 5-lb. rock on somebody from the top of a cliff with Mage Hand and critted, braining the sucker. (It helped that we were playing d20 Modern, so massive damage actually came into play.) No, dropping a rock is not an attack roll that can crit, but it was Rule of Cool'd.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-07-03, 01:40 PM
Getting things back on track: Pair O' Dice, that story blows mine out of the water. I hope that goblin went on to punch Balors through themselves. Anything less would be an anti-climax.

Remember how I said we were trying to prevent Tiamat from being summoned to the Prime? Unfortunately, we failed (through DM fiat, mostly, since the ritual mysteriously jumped two weeks ahead of schedule when we circumvented a dungeon...but I digress). To make it up to us, when we decided to seek Squee out and try to persuade him to join the good guys the DM had him agree after minimal prodding, and we immediately got to pimping out his equipment. When Tiamat showed up where we were waiting for her, he had a bazooka-style ginormous crossbow with a bunch of good enchantments. True to form, on Squee's first turn--and I am not making this up--he rolled a nat 20, confirmed with a 20, and rolled one less than max damage. Since that dealt over 1/6 Tiamat's HP, the DM ruled that he blew one of her heads off.

Kuma Da
2010-07-03, 03:30 PM
....dear god. I can see why you didn't include that with the original post. That much awesome in one place would've torn the fabric of reality asunder. :smallbiggrin: