Full Metal Alchemist D20 Vote-UP

[Milskidasith]

Milskidasith Presents


In Association with Doc Roc


And the Penny Dreadfuls:



Full Metal Alchemist D20 Vote-Up

FMA is hugely popular, and one of those settings we've always wanted explore. No one's built a conversion for it that we were particularly happy with. Which means that clearly we should undertake the idiotically enormous task of building one. So, we're voting up considerable portions of this system. Why? Because in our previous efforts, we've designed primarily from fiat. It seemed reasonable that we should sit down and really take into account the community's thoughts beforehand. So, first, the base:


We will be using the d20 system.
We will be using the still skeletal economy system from Legend. (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYdLcxsM7Nx0ZGc2NzhibjNfMjI1ZHIyenY2Z20&hl=en)
We will be using the skill system and feats linked to it from Legend. (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Aclf_LtvhqMlZGhwbTc4OTlfMzVjMmY2MjNmYg&hl=en)
We will be using Sage, from Legend. (https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dg678bn3_275cmzq9phd&authkey=CMGE5JYP)
We will be using the rebuild of the d20r sorcerer. (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYdLcxsM7Nx0ZGc2NzhibjNfMjYzZ2diNnNxaGQ&hl=en)
We will be using the [Legendary] super type from Legend, heavily reflavored.
We will be using considerably higher HP per level, to the tune of 16/20/24.


We may be using War-marked (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AQy814N0Rw6OZGdzNHBid3dfM2NjbXo5Mmcy&hl=en), specifically for the Spliced characters and lesser homunculus. The War-Marked class is meant to be specifically for NPCs, but access to marks can be acquired through feats for player characters. Marks (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Aclf_LtvhqMlZGhwbTc4OTlfNTYyNnh2dmM1&hl=en)

We would lean towards the continuity of the first anime series, as it is less of a crapsack world. It would be set after the series, or before it.
We may use the rogue from Legend to cover some blank party roles.

Beyond that, we need:


Maps
Automail
Automail Engineers
Homunculus
Setting specifics
Fast Travel mechanisms
Huge Chunks of Fluff
Many Many Items
Encounter charts
Quest value charts
A Leveling Scheme
A couple other classes.


So this first sweep is basically us trying to find out what you want, and we'll do up a second thread to vote up our favorite solutions and then a third to actually track implementation and answer questions about it. We'll then have a fourth where we do another round of voting and integrate that material to the best of our abilities. Finally, we'll have a fifth thread and a permanent site set up.

[SilverLeaf167]

You would probably make Alchemists a variant of the Wizard class, except that they can only use Transmutation and maybe at a later level, Evocation (Roy Mustang, for example).

For classes, you should have
1. Alchemist (duh)
2. Gunman
3. Ishbalan Warrior (swords?)
4. Mechanic
5. Alkahestrist (healer)

And for races...
1. Humans (Ishbalans as a subrace?)
2. Homonculi

Those are my ideas. I'll tell you if I get some more.

[Temotei]

Milskidasith Presents

I stand corrected. You have homebrew now. :smallamused:

[SilverLeaf167]

Which one are you talking to?
Stupid, blind me.

[Doc Roc]

Sorcerers and Sage covers our alchemists, actually. We try to avoid using wizards as shells, when we can. Take a look and tell me what you think?

We use war-marked to do homunculii and chimera, mostly for NPCs. They're quite powerful, so you can more easily have climactic fights, while build time consists of Snap-This-Together.

[SilverLeaf167]

Yeah, I kind of meant sorcerers. I'm not just used to having to separate the term Wizard from Sorcerer...

But still. SORCERERS should probably be limited to Evocation and Transmutation. And perhaps Necromancy. I think Scar's trick would be pretty Necro.

[Milskidasith]

Yeah, I kind of meant sorcerers. I'm not just used to having to separate the term Wizard from Sorcerer...

But still. SORCERERS should probably be limited to Evocation and Transmutation. And perhaps Necromancy. I think Scar's trick would be pretty Necro.

I would suggest reading the sorcerer we have linked. It is very, very different from the one in the SRD, and much better suited to our purposes.

[Temotei]

Which one are you talking to?
Stupid, blind me.

Actually, I edited that in. Don't sell yourself short. :smallwink:

[SilverLeaf167]

Okay, I didn't understand half of the Sorcerer thing (Actually, I didn't READ half that, but I didn't quite understand half of what I read). What's with the locks and mechanics? Sounds more like an automail mechanic to me xD

Temotei: You are such a foolishly foolish fool to foolishly make me look like a foolish fool in such a foolishly foolish way of foolery.

[Doc Roc]

Okay, I didn't understand half of the Sorcerer thing (Actually, I didn't READ half that, but I didn't quite understand half of what I read). What's with the locks and mechanics? Sounds more like an automail mechanic to me xD

Temotei: You are such a foolishly foolish fool to foolishly make me look like a foolish fool in such a foolishly foolish way of foolery.

It's actually a seed-casting system. It would be pretty unsuitable for automail, I think. Could you highlight what needs clarification after a more thorough read?

[SilverLeaf167]

I don't wanna read it. Makes my head ache xP
Could someone just explain how it basically works?

[Doc Roc]

I don't wanna read it. Makes my head ache xP
Could someone just explain how it basically works?

Sure, it works very simply:

There are two types of seeds, mechanics and trappings. Mechanics go in slots, which you access by placing trappings in locks. It's like a snap-together toyset for spells. Slots come in different values, from minor to great, which determines how good or powerful the effect of the mechanic slotted in them is.

So I might snap in:

Minor fire
Wilde Mage trapping
Major Force
Minor Burst

For a nice little blast spell.

I will admit, though, that you've managed to offer me some pretty considerable offense here.

[Wings of Peace]

I don't wanna read it. Makes my head ache xP
Could someone just explain how it basically works?

What specific part gave you confusion first when you were reading the PDF? I've read through it and may be able to help clarify some things.

If you're going to give input on it however, I feel safe to say it is expected by both the OP and most that you will read the material if you wish to be taken seriously. Not that your desire to assist is not appreciated but a general overview of a 17 page class will not give you a great enough grasp of its mechanics to contribute meaningfully on an in-depth level.

[SilverLeaf167]

Okay, I get it now. That explanation was a quite good simplification. So, it's practically tailored spells? Instead of choosing from a spell list, you choose that you want
1. the element to be Fire
2. something to do with Wild Mages, which I don't really remember right now, but anyhow
3. you want it to be a strong Force spell
4. AND you choose it to be a burst.

Did I get it?
And what do you mean by "considerable offense"?

[Temotei]

And what do you mean by "considerable offense"?

They spent a lot of time working on it. Having someone say their head hurts and they don't want to read it is slightly offensive to them.

[Milskidasith]

Okay, I get it now. That explanation was a quite good simplification. So, it's practically tailored spells? Instead of choosing from a spell list, you choose that you want
1. the element to be Fire
2. something to do with Wild Mages, which I don't really remember right now, but anyhow
3. you want it to be a strong Force spell
4. AND you choose it to be a burst.

Did I get it?
And what do you mean by "considerable offense"?

Well, sort of.

Minor fire, by the rules, just means the spell will hit for some fire damage.

Wild mage is a trapping; these things offer slight penalties, in exchange for giving you more slots.

Major force adds force damage, but the major and minor force abilities are the same (1d6 + 1d6 per two levels).

Burst... does make it a burst, yes.

So what this would do is 1d6+1d6/two levels fire damage, 1d6+1d6 per two levels force damage, and it would be a burst with a radius of 10 ft +5ft/5 ml, while wild mage makes casting it take a full round action.

[SilverLeaf167]

Sorry, I didn't mean any offense. It is very well made and stuff, and the idea is good. The problem was my inability to understand complex things without some kind of explanation.

I was just confused with the stuff about locks and all. That's all. The problem was with me. And the "my head hurts" thing was just a joke anyway. It even had an XP-smiley.

Sorry.

[Corporate M]

Have you considered the binder class?

Binding circles=Alchemy circles.

You may need to reflavor it and the essential function is if you fail a binding check, you fail at alchemy, rather then you get possessed. (But failing at the check could be just as bad if not worse. As we saw with Ed and Alphonse...)

But the binder seems pretty good to go by. A limited number of abilities unlimited times per day. And since alot of alchemy seems to be family secrets handed down from generation to generation, alot of these vestiges could be justified. Like Colonel Mustang's...



ALCHEMY SIGIL OF FIRE:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OG1eSllc4Pk/R96C_5OyCII/AAAAAAAAALU/ZNwfN5SC7_U/s320/Roy_Mustang.JPG
Level 3. DC: 17.
Granted abilities:

Lesser Fireball (Sp)
As the spell fireball, but the opponent is allowed to make two reflex saves and take the better result.

Fire Immunity (Ex)

Fire Bolt (Sp)
Must wait 5 rounds before can cast again.

Influence:
If you fail your binding check, and use one of the fire sigil's abilities, you must make a will save afterward DC equal to the DC of your ability casted or become dazed for one round. This daze is considered a [fear] effect.

This seems pretty accurate to Mustang. I'm not sure how balanced it is. Especially in a very low magic setting. But as you can see, influences have a much more diverse and hazardous effect on characters, as well as their alchemy tends to be more narrowly defined then a normal vestige.

[Doc Roc]

Actually, binder may be fairly useful for some of the weaker alchemists, but it doesn't really cover some of the others. We're using Sage and d20R sorcerer for them right now. Binding has some mis-matches in that it is accessible and online all day.

[Morph Bark]

If chimeras won't be made into templated humans or a seperate race, some emulation of binding could work for them. Quite a bit of binding can be done merely through feats after all.

[Aharon]

Actually, I sort of have to agree with the Sorcerer criticism. It took me two thorough reading throughs before I completely grasped it. That's not a bad thing, neccessarily - when first reading them, I found the rules for Shadow Run a bit confusing, too.

The point is that you've managed classes that are easier to understand, like most of the other Legend classes I've read (haven't looked into Sage and Rogue yet), and I was a bit surprised to see that the sorcerer was more complicated.

Now, it's not really fair from me to criticize it, seeing how you put the work into it and I didn't, but perhaps there might be a more intuitive way to do that?

Editing might be helpful - just putting the picture before the explanation of the terms could be good for faster understanding. (Perhaps expanding it, so that it includes a note on what part of a spell is available when you get a bonus trapping, like you already do for level 14).
Additionally, you use several terms for the same thing. There is no functional difference between trapping, key, and lock if I understood the class correctly, so perhaps instead of saying "If you want more, you put a trapping (key) into a lock", you could use one different term, like "If you want more, you bridge two components." This might be minor, but it might make reading the class easier.

Also, the introductory section seems to refer to an old picture, as there is no central black circle. Deleting or updating that might avoid confusion.

[Doc Roc]

A lot of good and helpful points there. Could we sit down later this evening and work through it? I think it's salvageable.

[Aharon]

I agree that it's salvageable, the mechanics are sound, they are just formulated in a slightly confusing way from time to time.

However, I am not available at the weekend. I currently don't have an internet connection at home, I usually post at university when I take a break.

[Doc Roc]

I made some touch-ups already based on what you suggested. Let me know when you get a chance. I added a small intro-section, cleaned up the existing one, and merged the two. The term key is now clearly deprecated.

We're rebuilding the sorcerer now, and refluffing portions of it so that it's more obviously an alchemist. Can I get some votes:

Since we can't call them spells, should we call them....

Transmutations
Compositions
Still call them spells.

[Nakun]

For the latest question, I vote calling them transmutations.

I did like the sorcerer write up that I scanned a moment ago, it is different, but that's what one needs for a true FMA alchemist class.

Because I have gotten caught up in the Brotherhood version of FMA, I've been toying with some ideas on my own for alchemy. There not like yours, and I don't want to make you redo all of your work, especially since it is well done. My two cents however, one's transmuting ability/aptitude should be tied to their understanding of the object they are creating (I believe something like this was stated in the first FMA anime...) So, in addition to being limited in the number of transmutations (spells) an alchemist can use, when specifically creating an item (like a sword or gun (as opposed to a stone slab)) they should have to make a craft check to see if the creation is usable or not. I did not see craft in the legend skills, so I would recommend a knowledge engineering if you wanted to use a mechanic like this.


Also, I'll keep looking back here and will be willing to help with fluff and similar stuff. Let me know if there's specific fluff you want worked on.

[Cieyrin]

I vote for transmutations, as that's what the primary act of alchemy is generally referred to regardless of continuity.

As for making magic more FMA alchemy-like, you may want to have something akin to Dark Sun Defiling and Preserving, though instead of drawing in life energy, it's the act of drawing transmutation circles if you haven't prepared one previously for whatever acts your doing. Remember, the Elrics and the others who've opened the Gate of Truth are the exception to that rule, not the norm. Opening the Gate seems to me best described as having a template applied, though what we want to constitute that as may vary.

Otherwise, I look forward to a suitable d20 FMA, especially if we can incorporate material from Xing and Ishbala. :smallbiggrin:

[Doc Roc]

For those who haven't opened the gate, I think we'll use Sage. The style of play is so different that we should have two different classes. Sorcerer/Alchemist for the spontaneous-alchemators, and Sage for the more traditional ones.

[Cieyrin]

For those who haven't opened the gate, I think we'll use Sage. The style of play is so different that we should have two different classes. Sorcerer/Alchemist for the spontaneous-alchemators, and Sage for the more traditional ones.

Are we talking some kind of conversion between the two types, as they run with different mechanics from what I've read of both, as if we do a normalish multiclass, we'll come out the other end with 2 casting progressions and we'll have a Thuergic mess on our hands. I suppose we could do it similar to how Blackguard handles Pally levels in boosting Sorcerer, with enough levels allowing direct conversion or something similar...

[Temotei]

Transmutations, definitely.

[Doc Roc]

Are we talking some kind of conversion between the two types, as they run with different mechanics from what I've read of both, as if we do a normalish multiclass, we'll come out the other end with 2 casting progressions and we'll have a Thuergic mess on our hands. I suppose we could do it similar to how Blackguard handles Pally levels in boosting Sorcerer, with enough levels allowing direct conversion or something similar...

I think the level conversion option is a slick trick. Yoink.

[Gralamin]

To switch the topic a bit, lets talk about Automail a bit. It is a granted in a world where transmutation is common, and magic items are basically non-existant, item destruction is also common. So Automail needs to be replaceable.

Automail, in my mind essentially works like a graft - you replace a body part with a metallic version - however, unlike grafts, there seems to be no penalty (Beyond general maintenance), except in specific cases (Extreme cold, etc). Not only that, but automail has been shown to be customizable.

I'd split automail into three categories: Functional, Weapon, and Hybrid. A Functional Automail replaces a limbs function, and is the most common type. Edward Elric has a Functional Auotmail. A Weapon Automail turns the limb into a weapon, and causes the limb to essentially lose its original functionality. Captain Buccaneer has a Weapon Automail. A Hybrid Automail turns the limb into a mixture of a weapon and functional. It loses some offensive power, but has most of the functionality of the original limb. An Example would be Lan Fan's "Clawed" automail arm

Functional Automail, and maybe Hybrid, would be able to be semi-hollowed. This would cause it to lose some durability, but be able to hold an Item (Or even a weapon, like Paninya).

Other then that, there would likely be a few item templates, that are mostly to adjust what it is made out of. A template to make it suitable for the winters of Briggs, for example.

And before I continue on Automail ideas, are we going with ArcherBot level automail or not?

[Cieyrin]

To switch the topic a bit, lets talk about Automail a bit. It is a granted in a world where transmutation is common, and magic items are basically non-existant, item destruction is also common. So Automail needs to be replaceable.

Automail, in my mind essentially works like a graft - you replace a body part with a metallic version - however, unlike grafts, there seems to be no penalty (Beyond general maintenance), except in specific cases (Extreme cold, etc). Not only that, but automail has been shown to be customizable.

I'd split automail into three categories: Functional, Weapon, and Hybrid. A Functional Automail replaces a limbs function, and is the most common type. Edward Elric has a Functional Auotmail. A Weapon Automail turns the limb into a weapon, and causes the limb to essentially lose its original functionality. Captain Buccaneer has a Weapon Automail. A Hybrid Automail turns the limb into a mixture of a weapon and functional. It loses some offensive power, but has most of the functionality of the original limb. An Example would be Lan Fan's "Clawed" automail arm

Functional Automail, and maybe Hybrid, would be able to be semi-hollowed. This would cause it to lose some durability, but be able to hold an Item (Or even a weapon, like Paninya).

Other then that, there would likely be a few item templates, that are mostly to adjust what it is made out of. A template to make it suitable for the winters of Briggs, for example.

And before I continue on Automail ideas, are we going with ArcherBot level automail or not?

This seems to be an ideal mix, though I think we can yoink a lot of this from Warforged grafts and modify as appropriate.

I'm unfamiliar with the ArcherBot you refer to, as my quick Googling doesn't reveal too much.

[Morph Bark]

Rather than a "template" to make it suitable for certain locations (such as Briggs with its cold winters), you could simply invent new materials, just like mithral and adamantine. One of them could be lighter and more cold-resistant. It might also be an idea to have one that is suitable for travel in the desert, as normally those with automail will have a hard time in the desert due to their automail getting hot (I would think this is something akin to heat metal and those with automail would get 1 fire damage per automail limb per hour or something; I haven't thoroughly read Sandstorm but it might provide ideas).

[Milskidasith]

Automail suggestions seem good; separating it into types seems fair enough.

I'm not sure how much damage automail should cause in adverse situations, because I cannot recall how big of a deal it was in FMA at any point; if it's only discomfort, taking damage seems a bit harsh.

As for whether it should be a template or a separate material: I'd weigh that a template would be more appropriate because you could, say, make something that resists heat and cold instead of being forced to choose "heat resistant" or "cold resistant."

[Cieyrin]

Automail suggestions seem good; separating it into types seems fair enough.

I'm not sure how much damage automail should cause in adverse situations, because I cannot recall how big of a deal it was in FMA at any point; if it's only discomfort, taking damage seems a bit harsh.

As for whether it should be a template or a separate material: I'd weigh that a template would be more appropriate because you could, say, make something that resists heat and cold instead of being forced to choose "heat resistant" or "cold resistant."

It's brought up more in the manga and in FMA: Brotherhood, what with the contact between the automail and skin creating frostbite or burning, as appropriate.

I agree on the template over the material, as making it better able to handle heat or cold is more than just making it out of some special material, making such make more sense.

[Gralamin]

This seems to be an ideal mix, though I think we can yoink a lot of this from Warforged grafts and modify as appropriate.

I'm unfamiliar with the ArcherBot you refer to, as my quick Googling doesn't reveal too much.

"ArcherBot" is a reference to a character from the first anime, Colonel Frank Archer, who ends up as an Automail Cyborg:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090124081803/fma/images/thumb/3/36/-archer.jpg/180px--archer.jpg
Obviously whether or not this is possible is unknown except for him.

[Samm]

This is currently looking rather cool. I like most of the classes mentioned and so forth, but I can't help noticing that we need classes for mundane heroes.

I believe we could base most mundane heroes on the following:

Fighter Fixes
Rogues (Variants, if need be)
Non-spellcasting Rangers


Now this wouldn't be without modification of course, because we will need to adjust a few things for firearms and take other things into consideration.

On second thoughts, we could use d20 Modern classes for mundane heroes. However, I don't really think they're going to be particularly powerful in the face of alchemists... So, I think they'll need modification, to give them a boost power wise, unless we want alchemists of the same level much more powerful than their mundane counterparts.

[Milskidasith]

This is currently looking rather cool. I like most of the classes mentioned and so forth, but I can't help noticing that we need classes for mundane heroes.

I believe we could base most mundane heroes on the following:

Fighter Fixes
Rogues (Variants, if need be)
Non-spellcasting Rangers


Now this wouldn't be without modification of course, because we will need to adjust a few things for firearms and take other things into consideration.

On second thoughts, we could use d20 Modern classes for mundane heroes. However, I don't really think they're going to be particularly powerful in the face of alchemists... So, I think they'll need modification, to give them a boost power wise, unless we want alchemists of the same level much more powerful than their mundane counterparts.

I am fairly certain, given the overall power level we are thinking of, that other d20 legend classes could be adapted for the more mundane characters. If you have other suggestions, feel free to make them.

[Samm]

I am fairly certain, given the overall power level we are thinking of, that other d20 legend classes could be adapted for the more mundane characters. If you have other suggestions, feel free to make them.

Could you pass me a link? I don't really know how to get to the other d20 Legend classes.

I really would like some good rules for firearms. Most the characters use them at some point. I believe we should take into account caliber, accuracy, range, type of round your firing (pistol vs. rifle), reloading, and rate of fire. That seems to be a very large ask...

Edit: I believe whoiam created rules that are utterly excellent. They're quite complex, but they deal with a whole number of things. These could be modified for such purposes. Unless someone has a better idea. I'll try and bring up a quote.

Edit 2: I hope whoiam isn't going to kill me for this.

Firearms (not quite complete)
Criticals and Precision Damage
All guns critical on a 19 or 20 against targets in their first range increment, or a 20 in all other range increments. A rifled gun fired slowly(taking a full-round action to fire instead of a standard action) criticals on an 18-20 in the first range increment, 19-20 in the second, and 20 in any further range. A gun deals triple damage on a critical.

Rifled weapons may also deal precision damage (such as Sneak Attack damage) against any foe that is vulnerable to such damage and is within the first range increment.
Class
There are five major classes of gun: The Pistol (including the revolver), the Carbine, the Longarm (muskets and rifles), the Support Weapon (one-or-two-man weapons requiring deployment to use) and the Artillery Piece (free-standing, crew served weapons such as cannons and Mortars).

Pistols
The smallest barrelled weapons in existance, Pistols are weak and inaccurate compared to every other weapon class.

A pistol deals one damage die per shot, and has a basic range increment of 15'.

Pistols are always fired one-handed. There are no special penalties for using a pistol while mounted.

A pistol can be used as a hand to hand weapon, using the rules for a sap. It can also be shot while in melee with no penalty. A pistol counts as a 'light' weapon. Reloading a pistol one-handed takes twice as long as reloading two-handed.
Carbines
Half way between a Pistol and a Longarm, the carbine has long been a favourite of mounted forces for the ease with which it can be used in the saddle. Lacking the strength or range of a full-sized longarm makes this weapon class unpopular amoungst infantry forces, not least because it is too small to be effectively fitted with a full sized bayonet. It is, however, popular amoungst outlaws, due to it's relative strength and ease of concealment.

A Carbine does two damage die per shot, and has a range increment of 30'.

Carbines can be shot one or two handed - although shooting one-handed incurs a -4 penalty on the 'to hit' roll. Carbines suffer no penalties for mounted use, and can be used in melee combat according to the rules for a club. A carbine can be fitted with a bayonet, which uses the rules for a knife.

Reloading a carbine one-handed takes twice as long as reloading a carbine two-handed.
Longarms
The favoured weapon of most infantry (and hunters), Longarms are the standard weapon of all modern armies.

A longarm does 3 damage dice per shot, and has a range increment of 50'.

Longarms cannot be wielded one-handed. Reloading a longarm one-handed takes four times as long as reloading it two-handed.
Support Weapons
Artillery

Firing Mechanism

Matchlock
A length of slow-burning fuse, fastened to the gun at one end and set alight at the other. When the trigger is pulled, the fuse is applied to the powder charge and the gun fires. A matchlock weapon cannot use cartridges.
Flintlock
A shard of flint is held within the firing mechanism, and once the trigger is pulled this flint is struck against a metal plate to generate a spark. This spark ignites the powder and fires the gun. A flintlock weapon cannot use cartridges.
Percussion Cap
A small solution of pressure-sensitive explosive fulminates, a percussion cap produces a small explosion when hit by the firing hammer. This explosion ignites the main powder charge. Percussion Cap weapons may be muzzle loaders or cartridge-firing breech loaders (with the percussion cap built into the cartridge). A single percussion cap weapon can be made for either bullets or cartridges, but not both.

Loading

Muzzle Loading
A Muzzle Loading weapon requires three rounds to load and fire. This is a sequence of four actions: A full-round action to load powder and ball, a full round action to ram these down with a ramrod, a move action to prime the pan and **** the firing mechanism, then a standard action to fire the weapon.

Ramming the shot and powder can be replaced by the standard action of 'tapping' the shot and powder down - this is the process of pointing the weapon upwards and hitting the stock/handle agaisnt the ground or something similarly hard to force the ball downwards. Using tapping instead of ramming reduces the range increment of the weapon to 3/4 its normal value.

Ramming or Tapping can be entirely omitted, but doing so reduces the range increment of the weapon to 1/2 its normal value.

The use of muzzle-loaded cartridges removes the ramming/tapping stage without reducing the weapon's range increment.
Breech Loading
Breech loading weapons require either a move or standard action to load, and a standard action to fire.

Multiple Shot Weapons
If a weapon posesses either multiple barrels (Muzzle Loaders) or a cylinder, belt or drum magazine (Breech Loaders), then each round must be loaded and fired seperately.

Some multiple barrel weapons may have each barrel fired simultaneously, but this requires an extra point of strength bonus over using the single-barrel variant (see Calibers, below).

Caliber
Gun calibers are measured in eights of an inch. A standard smoothbore musket has a caliber of 3/8ths of an inch, and can be effectively used by anyone of average strength (10/11) or higher. For every 8th of an inch difference in the caliber, the required strength bonus increases or decreases by one point.

The size of the damage die done by a gun is a direct result of the caliber of ammunition used. A 1/8th gun does d2 damage die, and the size of the die increases by two points per 8th.

E.g. a 1/8th caliber pistol does 1d2 damage per shot, and can be used effectively by anyone with a strength of 6 or higher. A 5/8th caliber pistol does 1d10 damage, and requires a strength of 14 or higher to use effectively. A 5/8ths caliber musket does 3d10 damage, and also requires a strength of 14 or higher to use effectively (but can only be fired with two hands).
Rifling
A non-cartridge rifled weapon requires two turns to ram, and cannot be tapped. It can, however, be fired without ramming or tapping (at the normal cost of halving the weapon's range increment). A rifled, rammed weapon has twice the range increment of its non-rifled equivalent.

A cartridge based rifled weapon can be loaded without any additional penalty.

Sights
Basic Sights grant a +1 to hit targets in the first range increment, but are ineffective at greater ranges.

Telescopic sights grant no bonus to hit, but reduce the range increment hit penalty by one point per range increment.

A gun can posess both types of sights: The effects stack. Multiple sights of the same type do not stack.
Melee
Gun type|Melee Equivalent
Pistol|Sap
Carbine|Club
Longarm|Quarterstaff
Carbine+Bayonet|Short Spear
Longarm+Bayonet|Spear

Ammunition
Masterwork ammunition provides a +1 bonus to To Hit rolls. This bonus stacks with any bonuses provided by the gun (including masterwork bonuses).
Crafting and Repair

Smoke
Firing a black powder weapon creates enough smoke to apply a -1 to subsequent 'To Hit' passing into, out of, or through the square in which the weapon is discharged. This smoke cloud dissipates by one point per round, or two in any sort of breeze.
Fouling and Cleaning
Every time a black powder weapon is fired, roll a percentile die and compare this number to the number of previous firings since the gun was last cleaned. If the roll is lower than the number of previous firings, the gun jams and cannot be reused until the stuck projectile is removed. Masterwork guns allow each failed jamming check to be re-rolled once. A jammed weapon cannot be repaired during combat.

A gun can be field-cleaned by urinating down the barrel, then emptying the resulting sludge out of the weapon. This removes half of the fouling points currently on the weapon, rounding down. Field-cleaning a weapon is a full round action, and generally not performed in polite society.

A gun can be cleaned properly by rinsing with boiling water, then leaving to dry. This removes all the fouling points currently on a given weapon.
Prices

{table=head]Weapon Bases|Price
Pistol|
Carbine|
Longarm|
Masterwork|
[/table]
Caliber Enhancement: x per 1/8th.
{table=head]Firing Mechanisms|Price (gun)|Price (per shot)
Matchlock||
Flintlock||
Percussion Cap||
[/table]
Simple Sights:
Telescopic Sights:
{table=head]Ammunition Type|Base Price|Caliber Supplement (per 1/8th)
Lead Shot
Lead Rifle Shot
Cartridge
[/table]

[Aharon]

About the sorcerer again:
An example build might be something to make the class more comprehensible, too.
It helped me to realize what he can do when I did this for level 1:

Level 1:
Gets Elemental Mechanic Component automatically, has access to Strong and Caustic Augments
Takes Offensive Temporal Component, has access to Slow Dance for Two Augment
Takes Wild Mage Trapping, has access to Reiterate, Showboat and Overchannel Trappings

Possible Spells:
Minor Elemental
Minor Temporal Offensive
Minor Elemental with Strong Augment
Minor Temporal with Slow Dance for Two Augment
All of the Above with Wild Mage Trapping (not really useful)
Minor Elemental, Wild Mage Trapping, Major Temporal
Minor Elemental, Wild Mage Trapping, Major Temporal, Strong Augment
Minor Temporal, Wild Mage Trapping, Major Elemental, Slow Dance for Two Augment
Minor Temporal, Wild Mage Trapping, Major Elemental

[Wulfang]

We would lean towards the continuity of the first anime series, as it is less of a crapsack world.

Wait, what?! How is the continuity of the first anime less of a crapsack world? The one where the homunculi are tortured beings deperately trying to become human, Hohenheim is a guy who has killed thousands in order to become immortal, alchemy is fueled by death on our Earth and the protagonists spend the series despairing and whining about their lives?

Are we talking about the same thing here?

[The Anarresti]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153645&highlight=Alchemist

Just a thought: Some homebrew inspired by FMA. Remember the conservation of matter and energy thought, that's a biggie.

Oh and please ignore the rude tone of my posts, I was short on sleep and crabby.

[Cieyrin]

"ArcherBot" is a reference to a character from the first anime, Colonel Frank Archer, who ends up as an Automail Cyborg:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090124081803/fma/images/thumb/3/36/-archer.jpg/180px--archer.jpg
Obviously whether or not this is possible is unknown except for him.

Cyborg status should probably be fairly limited and rare, potentially limited only to Renegade Mastermakers, if we want to include those. Probably more common around Rush Valley, though still incredibly rare.


Could you pass me a link? I don't really know how to get to the other d20 Legend classes.

It's most easily gathered from DocRoc's sig, as the Alpha Release or here, the main thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152828


Gun Rules

Quite nice, though perhaps a little behind the tech level of the anime, given they have magazines and machine guns, as well as grenades and steam trains. Otherwise, I'd almost jump at the Iron Kingdoms rendition of guns, though they're not quite as freely available as the above proffered ones. It's just they have a lot of interesting modifications, as well some nice guns as well.

[Samm]

It's most easily gathered from DocRoc's sig, as the Alpha Release or here, the main thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152828

Thanks, I'll be sure to read it soon.


Quite nice, though perhaps a little behind the tech level of the anime, given they have magazines and machine guns, as well as grenades and steam trains. Otherwise, I'd almost jump at the Iron Kingdoms rendition of guns, though they're not quite as freely available as the above proffered ones. It's just they have a lot of interesting modifications, as well some nice guns as well.

whoiam designed them for the renaissance era. To bring it up to tech level, I suggest we remove the smoke, fouling and all forms of muzzle loading. We make it all breach loaded using cartriges and include something on magazines and automatic firing.

With magazines, one can have prepared clips, speed-loaders, etc. ready to load into the weapon, but when they're done, you have to load the bullets one by one, either into the magazines, clips, speed loaders or the gun itself.

I think we should have a mechanic that emulates that.

Automatic firing or semi-automatic firing in quick succession should be like doing iterative attacks with increasing penalties, then one can take a feat which allows one to fire more accurately automatically. The amount of rounds one can fire when using an automatic weapon should be determined by the rate of fire of the weapon. To do this, I say we break weapons into categories based on their rates of fire and then, assign a maximum to the number of rounds one can fire per turn, for each category.

For grenades, I'm not sure.

[Cieyrin]

whoiam designed them for the renaissance era. To bring it up to tech level, I suggest we remove the smoke, fouling and all forms of muzzle loading. We make it all breach loaded using cartridges and include something on magazines and automatic firing.

Fouling still comes up even in modern weapons, though improvements in manufacturing has dramatically reduced that. However, it may not be something we want to worry about, as jams and whatnot only really show up at dramatic moments, anyways.


With magazines, one can have prepared clips, speed-loaders, etc. ready to load into the weapon, but when they're done, you have to load the bullets one by one, either into the magazines, clips, speed loaders or the gun itself.

I think we should have a mechanic that emulates that.

Automatic firing or semi-automatic firing in quick succession should be like doing iterative attacks with increasing penalties, then one can take a feat which allows one to fire more accurately automatically. The amount of rounds one can fire when using an automatic weapon should be determined by the rate of fire of the weapon. To do this, I say we break weapons into categories based on their rates of fire and then, assign a maximum to the number of rounds one can fire per turn, for each category.

For grenades, I'm not sure.

Sounds fairly well thought out, though we'll have to play with the numbers some.

As for grenades, we can steal from the DMG and adjust as needed.

[Samm]

Fouling still comes up even in modern weapons, though improvements in manufacturing has dramatically reduced that. However, it may not be something we want to worry about, as jams and whatnot only really show up at dramatic moments, anyways.

True, but no where near as often as back in the good ol' days.


Sounds fairly well thought out, though we'll have to play with the numbers some.

I must say, the numbers are going to be the hard bits. For the categories. I'm thinking something along the lines of this:

Single-shot (things that can only be fired once without reloading). Able to fire once as an attack.
Double-shot (Duh). Able to fire twice as a standard action or a full attack.
Manual (bolt-action rifles, pump-action shotguns). Able to fire 4 rounds as a full attack, one as a standard action.
Semi-automatic. Able to fire 6 times as a full attack, twice as a standard action.
Slow automatic (anything less than 200 rounds per minute). Able to fire 9 times as a full attack or 3 as a standard action.
Fast automatic (guns that fire in excess of 200 rounds per minute). Able to fire 12 rounds as a full attack and 4 as a standard action.


The last two, I'm a little unsure of. See, miniguns can fire about 5 times as fast as 200 rounds per minute, though 45 attacks during a round is a little crazy.

Second of all, I don't believe one should be able to speed up any of the firing of the automatic weapons, only the manual and semi-automatic. At no point, should these weapons fire faster than automatic weapons.

To make it have some sense of balance though, we need to have the penalties fairly high for automatic firing... Maybe after the 2nd shot you lose your dex to attack. From there on in, you take large and larger penalties to your attack roll. For non-automatic firing, you wouldn't lose your dex to attack. If you choose to limit the amount your firing an automatic weapon to the level of a semi-automatic weapon, you keep your dex to attack.


As for grenades, we can steal from the DMG and adjust as needed.

Cool. I was thinking something along those lines.

[Knaight]

I'm thinking anything full auto should just be an area attack. An option for either a 5 foot line, 10 foot line, or a few cones should about cover it, with less damage for wider cones, and less damage for cones than lines. Enough to pin down non suicidal low level characters, while leaving the option for higher level types to just charge the gunner. It pretty much perfectly replicates the scene where the central troops are trying to pin down a hallway, makes sense besides that, and leaves automatic weaponry where it should be, as suppression fire or something to gun down hordes, not something to try and take out an individual.

[Milskidasith]

You should probably be allowed to take a typical full attack (four aimed shots) with auto weapons as another option.

Anyway, the gun rules listed are both fairly broken; the first gun rules make them totally useless, and the second list has the problem where full auto allows too much damage from any source of bonus damage, plus it doesn't seem to matter what your BAB is, which is against all design rules of D&D.

Full auto guns having an AoE option seems like the best solution to me, however, there's obviously room for discussion.

[Samm]

I'm thinking anything full auto should just be an area attack. An option for either a 5 foot line, 10 foot line, or a few cones should about cover it, with less damage for wider cones, and less damage for cones than lines. Enough to pin down non suicidal low level characters, while leaving the option for higher level types to just charge the gunner. It pretty much perfectly replicates the scene where the central troops are trying to pin down a hallway, makes sense besides that, and leaves automatic weaponry where it should be, as suppression fire or something to gun down hordes, not something to try and take out an individual.

Okay, that's really good. I like it. I think d20 modern has something like this.

What about semi-automatic weapons and manual weapons? Should they lose a few attacks?

I think that automatic weapons should be able to be fired as just like a semi-automatic weapon, as a full attack or spray down an area.

[Knaight]

I'm thinking semi auto already has all the advantage it needs in the form of basically being able to ignore reloads. A feat that allows the equivalent of power attack with semi automatic weapons makes up the rest of the difference.

[Samm]

I'm thinking semi auto already has all the advantage it needs in the form of basically being able to ignore reloads. A feat that allows the equivalent of power attack with semi automatic weapons makes up the rest of the difference.

I don't quite understand, semi-autos still must reload. Secondly, power attack with guns? It sounds rather odd.

[Milskidasith]

I don't quite understand, semi-autos still must reload. Secondly, power attack with guns? It sounds rather odd.

Semi autos ignore reload compared to manual, at least that's the impression I'm getting.

Since this is on a d20 chassis, however, manual guns need to either be considered effectively the same as semi auto (if you can fire four arrows a round, you can fire four gunshots in a round) or they will be relatively worthless. Maybe make semi-auto guns have a flurry type feat line for extra attacks, but no guns should be "balanced" by being incapable of making all your iteratives.

EDIT: And I believe "power attack with guns" could be considered "Aim for the head/more towards the heart" but fluff is really mutable. And, of course, we've got magic (well, alchemy) so a few oddities aren't too bad.

[Samm]

Semi autos ignore reload compared to manual, at least that's the impression I'm getting.

After the magazine runs out?


Since this is on a d20 chassis, however, manual guns need to either be considered effectively the same as semi auto (if you can fire four arrows a round, you can fire four gunshots in a round) or they will be relatively worthless. Maybe make semi-auto guns have a flurry type feat line for extra attacks, but no guns should be "balanced" by being incapable of making all your iteratives.

That's really clever. I like it, I think it should apply to automatic weapons as well, because one can fire an automatic weapon rather like a semi-automatic weapon, usually.


EDIT: And I believe "power attack with guns" could be considered "Aim for the head/more towards the heart" but fluff is really mutable. And, of course, we've got magic (well, alchemy) so a few oddities aren't too bad.

Are you suggesting we integrate called shots? Cool, but that sounds rather hard.

[Milskidasith]

After the magazine runs out?

I assume loading a magazine can be considered a free action, or perhaps a move action that can be a free action with a feat at the highest. Manual guns may need to be harder, but then they rapidly drop off to worthlessness unless they have a large magazine size.


That's really clever. I like it, I think it should apply to automatic weapons as well, because one can fire an automatic weapon rather like a semi-automatic weapon, usually.


I believe I suggested this, but yes; basically, manual guns should get iteratives, semi autos should possibly get flurry (with feats, or a to hit penalty that is non trivial) and auto guns can get all of the above and area of effect type attacks.


Are you suggesting we integrate called shots? Cool, but that sounds rather hard.

Not called shots so much as labeling power attack with a gun as a "called shot;" it doesn't make sense to fire your gun harder to get more damage (unless you add more black powder to a really old gun, I guess), but you can easily fluff it as "I aim for his head/neck/the femoral artery/heart/kidney/rune keeping his soul in his armor" taking a penalty to hit in order to get more damage. Specific body parts wouldn't be targeted, but you get what I'm trying to say, right? It would still be -1 attack for +1 or 2 damage, just with different fluff.

[Knaight]

I don't quite understand, semi-autos still must reload. Secondly, power attack with guns? It sounds rather odd.

Yes, but far less than a bolt action or similar. As for power attack with guns, that essentially models burst fire, though it would obviously be a different feat. Maybe actually called Burst Fire.

[Samm]

I assume loading a magazine can be considered a free action, or perhaps a move action that can be a free action with a feat at the highest. Manual guns may need to be harder, but then they rapidly drop off to worthlessness unless they have a large magazine size.



I believe I suggested this, but yes; basically, manual guns should get iteratives, semi autos should possibly get flurry (with feats, or a to hit penalty that is non trivial) and auto guns can get all of the above and area of effect type attacks.



Not called shots so much as labeling power attack with a gun as a "called shot;" it doesn't make sense to fire your gun harder to get more damage (unless you add more black powder to a really old gun, I guess), but you can easily fluff it as "I aim for his head/neck/the femoral artery/heart/kidney/rune keeping his soul in his armor" taking a penalty to hit in order to get more damage. Specific body parts wouldn't be targeted, but you get what I'm trying to say, right? It would still be -1 attack for +1 or 2 damage, just with different fluff.

Okay, that's excellent. I like I suppose aiming for the chest is the default?

And what about shooting to injure, not to kill? Can we take a -1 to attack and put 1 or 2 damage into nonlethal?

[Knaight]

I would make that a basic ability of either a soldier class, or of an Eastern Soldier prestige class.

[Milskidasith]

I'm pretty sure the standard "-4, all damage is nonlethal" penalty can apply. Sure, it's not entirely sensible, but neither is it sensible that you can deal nonlethal damage with a sword (dealing slashing damage).

[Cieyrin]

I'm pretty sure the standard "-4, all damage is nonlethal" penalty can apply. Sure, it's not entirely sensible, but neither is it sensible that you can deal nonlethal damage with a sword (dealing slashing damage).

Yeah, you'd think using the flat of the blade for nonlethal would change the damage type to bludgeoning but...:smallconfused:

[Samm]

I'm pretty sure the standard "-4, all damage is nonlethal" penalty can apply. Sure, it's not entirely sensible, but neither is it sensible that you can deal nonlethal damage with a sword (dealing slashing damage).

I suppose that's all cool.

I'm thinking about Homonculi at the moment. I think they should be given regeneration, this would have to have an exception that if they're "killed" enough they'd actually die.

Of course this would be accompanied by a number of things such as a Level Adjustment, and maybe some buffs to ability scores.

[Cieyrin]

I suppose that's all cool.

I'm thinking about Homonculi at the moment. I think they should be given regeneration, this would have to have an exception that if they're "killed" enough they'd actually die.

Of course this would be accompanied by a number of things such as a Level Adjustment, and maybe some buffs to ability scores.

The simplest way to do that I can think of is for the philosopher stone powering a Homunculi to have a finite pool of energy that they use to passively power their various enhancements (regeneration, stat buffs, etc.), as well as actively using the stone for the special abilities unique to each Homunculi, whether that be Greed's stoneskin-like effect or Lust's Warshaper-esque Inhuman Reach and sudden Natural Weapons.

[Samm]

The simplest way to do that I can think of is for the philosopher stone powering a Homunculi to have a finite pool of energy that they use to passively power their various enhancements (regeneration, stat buffs, etc.), as well as actively using the stone for the special abilities unique to each Homunculi, whether that be Greed's stoneskin-like effect or Lust's Warshaper-esque Inhuman Reach and sudden Natural Weapons.

Yeah, that's a pretty cool idea, the problem is, figuring out the numbers on this.

[Cieyrin]

Yeah, that's a pretty cool idea, the problem is, figuring out the numbers on this.

Pretty high, I would imagine, considering you wouldn't want to power an artificial lifeform with only 10 charges. :smallwink:

[Doc Roc]

Pretty high, I would imagine, considering you wouldn't want to power an artificial lifeform with only 10 charges. :smallwink:

Heh, well, I mean, it'd certainly keep them in line....

[Samm]

I'd say they need racial paragon classes. Then, they can multi-class out of these racial paragon classes, if they choose to.

I believe this is justified, because some Homonculi players will want to be more than just a Homonculus, while others may want to focus on being a Homonculus. This will allow lots of versatility.

[Cieyrin]

I'd say they need racial paragon classes. Then, they can multi-class out of these racial paragon classes, if they choose to.

I believe this is justified, because some Homonculi players will want to be more than just a Homonculus, while others may want to focus on being a Homonculus. This will allow lots of versatility.

Depending on which creation method we're talking about, it may make more sense for Homunculi to be templated Humans and if they wish to advance their powers, go the path of either a Homunculus Paragon or have racial PRCs, something like what the undead have in Libris Mortis, as it may make more sense to have multiple paths they can take, depending on which qualities they want to pursue, whether it be the regenerative ones or advancing their physical abilities.

[Samm]

Depending on which creation method we're talking about, it may make more sense for Homunculi to be templated Humans and if they wish to advance their powers, go the path of either a Homunculus Paragon or have racial PRCs, something like what the undead have in Libris Mortis, as it may make more sense to have multiple paths they can take, depending on which qualities they want to pursue, whether it be the regenerative ones or advancing their physical abilities.

Yeah, isn't the latter that basically what I said, apart from racial PRCs? But still it's a good idea.

[Cieyrin]

Yeah, isn't the latter that basically what I said, apart from racial PRCs? But still it's a good idea.

Yeah, just further developing them, tis all. :smalltongue:

[Samm]

I've had a think about transport, and it seems to me that the main methods of transport were cars, trains, and horses.

Horses seem easy, just use the Monster Manual Entry, but cars and trains are different. We'll need a railroad system and various cars types.

[Milskidasith]

I am not certain how detailed cars really need to be, because generally, it seems like you could probably break a car fairly easily with alchemy anyway.

[Cieyrin]

I am not certain how detailed cars really need to be, because generally, it seems like you could probably break a car fairly easily with alchemy anyway.

I would tend to agree, given FMA has never been very vehicle oriented. If we can perhaps get speeds and maneuverability (much like how flying is handled), I think we should be fine. Vehicles are more mobile terrain than anything, really. I mean, who hasn't wanted to fight atop a train, really? :smallbiggrin:

[Samm]

I would tend to agree, given FMA has never been very vehicle oriented. If we can perhaps get speeds and maneuverability (much like how flying is handled), I think we should be fine. Vehicles are more mobile terrain than anything, really. I mean, who hasn't wanted to fight atop a train, really? :smallbiggrin:

I actually think this is a really cool idea. I remember in the first series there was a fight aboard the train, we need to be able to implement that sort of thing in a certain way.

[Cieyrin]

I actually think this is a really cool idea. I remember in the first series there was a fight aboard the train, we need to be able to implement that sort of thing in a certain way.

Actually, for trains at least, we can borrow from the Explorer's Handbook, which goes into considerable detail about using Eberron's lightning rail trains as battlegrounds.

[Samm]

Actually, for trains at least, we can borrow from the Explorer's Handbook, which goes into considerable detail about using Eberron's lightning rail trains as battlegrounds.

That's excellent. It means we don't have to invent truckloads of stuff, in relation to this.