Fifty-five?

[Cizak]

In #732 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html) Durkon says he is fifty-five years old. In my copy of No Cure For The Paladin Blues it syas on the introduction-page that he's thirty-nine. Has it really gone 16 years since NCFTPB took place? I find that reeeally hard to believe.

[hamishspence]

Ages sometimes get retconned? I think V's age changed at one point as well.

[The MunchKING]

Or he made a mistake when talking to the guard... :smalltongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

Or he made a mistake when talking to the guard... :smalltongue:

Or he made a mistake on the introduction in No Cure For the Paladin Blues.

[Martok]

Interesting; I hadn't remembered his age being mentioned in the intro for Paladin Blues. Nice catch there!

If it is in fact a retcon (or possibly a goof), then personally I would lean towards Durkon being closer to 55 than 39. It seems like in most fantasy worlds (including D&D) that the majority of dwarves are least middle-aged by the time they go adventuring; only a relatively small handful are still young (by dwarven standards) when they begin wandering the world. So if Durkon was only 39 at the time the Order ran into Miko, that would definitely put him on the young side for an adventuring dwarf, whereas 55 would be much closer to the "norm".

[Ancalagon]

In #732 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html) Durkon says he is fifty-five years old. In my copy of No Cure For The Paladin Blues it syas on the introduction-page that he's thirty-nine. Has it really gone 16 years since NCFTPB took place? I find that reeeally hard to believe.

Imo, that's a mistake Rich was made aware of and fixed it in the future. A Dwarf of 40 years is the same as a 15 year old human (we know it works that way in OotS, see the "20 years in diapers thing" elves). Seems a bit young for Durkon.
A dwarf of 55 would roughly correspond with a 20 year old human. That makes much more sense (and Durkon gets described as "young" in Origin of PCs, so that makes some sense).

[Lira]

The post may be deleted by now, but Rich said on the forums that he made a mistake on Durkon's age in No Cure For The Paladin Blues.

[factotum]

Agreed. The mistake is in NCftPB, not the current strip--since Durkon got kicked out of his homeland some 20-odd years ago, the age given in the printed book would imply Durkon was only maybe 20 himself when that happened; but a dwarf is still a child at that age, as the Giant realised later.

[Luzahn]

Hm. So maybe, Durkon is intended to be the equivalent to 39 in human years. I've seen various fantasies putting dwarves only slightly longer-lived than humans.

[Martok]

@Lira & factotum: Thanks for clearing that up! Much appreciated. :smallsmile:





Hm. So maybe, Durkon is intended to be the 0equivalent to 39 in human years.
That's more or less what I was thinking as well. He has displayed -- both overtly and subtly -- a wisdom & experience beyond what you'd normally expect in a dwarf young enough to still be considered a "minor" among his own race.




I've seen various fantasies putting dwarves only slightly longer-lived than humans.
True. However, since the strip is (more or less) based in the D&D 3.5 world, I think we can assume with a reasonable amount of certainty that dwarves in the OOTS-verse likely live for at least a couple centuries, if not longer.

[Gift Jeraff]

IIRC, he was listed as 54 in War & XPs, published 2 years ago. So, yeah, it was Paladin Blues that was retconned.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

IIRC, he was listed as 54 in War & XPs, published 2 years ago. So, yeah, it was Paladin Blues that was retconned.
And, conveniently enough, it’s just a few short days from being a full year since then. Hence, now 55. :smallsmile:

Durkon’s card in the Adventure Game also lists 54. So now, we’re all self-consistent. :smallcool:

[Zevox]

IIRC, he was listed as 54 in War & XPs, published 2 years ago. So, yeah, it was Paladin Blues that was retconned.
Confirmed. The cast list at the start of War and XPs does indeed list Durkon's age as 54. And with the approximately one year that passed during Don't Split the Party, we hit his current 55. So NCftPB is to be disregarded as far as this goes.

Zevox

[The Giant]

I made a mistake during the production of NCFPB because I was rushing to write the character bios the day before the book was due at the printer, trying to get it printed in time for Origins that year. I thought I knew the dwarf age categories from memory, but I did not; I made Durkon way too young. I corrected it in the Adventure Game and WAXP, and I included it here just to make sure that it's clear.

Development-wise, Durkon is meant to be the dwarf equivalent of the rest of the Order: early to mid-20's. It's just that he's actually experienced twice as much life as that, and has a much higher Wisdom (that often mimics being older and more experienced).

[magic9mushroom]

How old are Vaarsuvius and Belkar, again?

[Nimrod's Son]

How old are Vaarsuvius and Belkar, again?
Neither has been given an official age, but Vaarsuvius was listed as "130?" in War & XPs. Belkar's never had anything but question marks.

[tassaron]

Is NCFTPB going to have the age fixed in a future printing?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Neither has been given an official age, but Vaarsuvius was listed as "130?" in War & XPs. Belkar's never had anything but question marks.

Order of the Stick Adventure Game character card lists Belkar as 32.

Vaarsuvius’s card almost certainly contains a transposition error, with a value of 103. This is too young for standard elf age categories.

[Dr.Epic]

I made a mistake during the production of NCFPB because I was rushing to write the character bios the day before the book was due at the printer, trying to get it printed in time for Origins that year. I thought I knew the dwarf age categories from memory, but I did not; I made Durkon way too young. I corrected it in the Adventure Game and WAXP, and I included it here just to make sure that it's clear.

Development-wise, Durkon is meant to be the dwarf equivalent of the rest of the Order: early to mid-20's. It's just that he's actually experienced twice as much life as that, and has a much higher Wisdom (that often mimics being older and more experienced).

Any other mistakes out there? A certain wizard in Cliffport murdered by a certain sorcerer and a certain son to said wizard we've never seen or heard of other than in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html)?

[Nimrod's Son]

Order of the Stick Adventure Game character card lists Belkar as 32.

Vaarsuvius’s card almost certainly contains a transposition error, with a value of 103. This is too young for standard elf age categories.
On checking, V's age is given as "130?" in both NCftPB and W&XPs. Belkar just has question marks in both. Odd that Rich would give him an age in the board game and then go back to keeping it a mystery elsewhere. :smallconfused:


Any other mistakes out there? A certain wizard in Cliffport murdered by a certain sorcerer and a certain son to said wizard we've never seen or heard of other than in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html)?
This has been discussed several times, most recently here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154937) I refuse to believe it's a mistake though, because if that's the case it's one of the most glaringly boneheaded mistakes possible. Rich has always shown himself to pay much more attention to detail than that.

[Leecros]

Any other mistakes out there?

mistakes in a work of fiction as long as OotS?


naw, never :smalltongue:

[kpenguin]

And here I thought the Giant was perfect. The pedestal, she is broken.

[Dr.Epic]

This has been discussed several times, most recently here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154937) I refuse to believe it's a mistake though, because if that's the case it's one of the most glaringly boneheaded mistakes possible. Rich has always shown himself to pay much more attention to detail than that.

It's been mentioned nowhere else. Not even in SoD where we see Xykon kill master Fyron. What's the deal with that?

[Leecros]

It's been mentioned nowhere else. Not even in SoD where we see Xykon kill master Fyron. What's the deal with that?


I could think of a number of possible reasons, but...since there's scant data on the subject it's hard to say any way.

[Kish]

It's been mentioned nowhere else.
Oh, really? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html)

Considering that Rich did have Roy mention Fyron's son over three hundred strips after the one you linked, after Start of Darkness had come out and any retcons he made would have been made, I doubt it's a mistake*, though the fact that said son has never appeared onstage is certainly odd.

*At least, a mistake made by Rich. It may have been a mistake made by Roy or by Eugene.

[Red XIV]

Given the oddity of Roy being the only one to mention Fyron's son (Eugene never did, and the flashback to Fyron's death has no son present), and the seeming pointlessness of making that addition to the story, it's easy to see why people would think of it as a goof. But I would be surprised if Rich made the exact same goof twice.

Though maybe Fyron's son has some hidden plot significance that will be revealed in a future strip. Hard to imagine what it would be, but Rich is a lot more creative that I am.

[PallElendro]

As said in a previous thread I lost the link to: Durkon: The Baby of the Team?: Durkon's age was misappropriated when the introduction was made, primarily before the 3rd Edition sourcebooks were read.

[Nimrod's Son]

*At least, a mistake made by Rich. It may have been a mistake made by Roy or by Eugene.
It's pretty certain that Eugene never spoke of Fyron's son to Roy, so the mistake would have to be on Roy's part. Which would be perfectly understandable if this were real life, but rather awkward as a story device. I'm perhaps even less inclined to believe that Rich deliberately made Roy get the story wrong than that Rich made the mistake himself. In fiction, characters don't make mistakes like that unless there's a very good reason for it.

[Leecros]

Given the oddity of Roy being the only one to mention Fyron's son (Eugene never did, and the flashback to Fyron's death has no son present), and the seeming pointlessness of making that addition to the story,
There's never any pointlessness to adding depth to a character, as a writer you never know what'll be important or not later on.



i don't have SOD, but given the fact that Fyron's son doesn't appear in the flashbacks to Fyron's Death and Eugene didn't mention him it leaves a few choices.

He didn't exist at all(as i said this could be debated to no end with the minimal information we're given)

He's in some other part of the building alive and encounters Xykon on his way out.

He's in some other part of the building dead and Fyron doesn't know it yet and Xykon for some reason doesn't rub it in his face(possibly not knowing that it was Fyron's son).

or; Xykon hunted down Fyron's son to complete the set (http://lfgcomic.com/page/3)


i don't recall the exact reasons why Xykon killed Fyron(its late here dun wanna think) but it's possible that if Fyron was hunted down by Xykon, it's not too much of a stretch that he ran into his son at some point.



Though maybe Fyron's son has some hidden plot significance that will be revealed in a future strip. Hard to imagine what it would be, but Rich is a lot more creative that I am.

eeh...it's sort of tough for a dead character to have significance; then again in a world with D&D stuff death is somewhat temporary and isn't always an impediment.

[Nimrod's Son]

He's in some other part of the building alive and encounters Xykon on his way out.

He's in some other part of the building dead and Fyron doesn't know it yet and Xykon for some reason doesn't rub it in his face(possibly not knowing that it was Fyron's son).
Eugene's set-up for the story makes it unlikely the son was in the building at all. He arrived with a takeaway meal for the two of them (as he apparently often did) to find Fyron and Xykon mid-standoff, and as he entered he was calling his master's name, not any others.

This just after a montage of scenes throughout Eugene's time with Fyron, too, with narration talking of the father-son relationship they had. If Fyron already HAD a son, that would rather complicate matters, or else they would all be one happy family. I can't believe that Eugene and Fyron could be that close and yet the son's death doesn't warrant a mention.


i don't recall the exact reasons why Xykon killed Fyron(its late here dun wanna think) but it's possible that if Fyron was hunted down by Xykon, it's not too much of a stretch that he ran into his son at some point.
There was no hunting down. Xykon took a tour of Fyron's museum, saw a crown that he thought looked totally badass, and returned that night to steal it. He didn't even necessarily intend to kill its owner; he just wanted the crown.

[the_tick_rules]

I'm going with a writing mistake. Now which is right and which is wrong?

[Nimrod's Son]

I'm going with a writing mistake. Now which is right and which is wrong?
...And as has been mentioned, Rich made Roy repeat the assertion at appromixately the same time (in real life) that he was fleshing out the backstory in SoD. The two contradict each other so obviously that I simply can't believe Rich didn't notice. It'd be like him announcing this month that he's releasing a Linear Guild prequel that tells Nale's full history, which somehow forgot to include any mention of Tarquin.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

On checking, V's age is given as "130?" in both NCftPB and W&XPs. Belkar just has question marks in both. Odd that Rich would give him an age in the board game and then go back to keeping it a mystery elsewhere. :smallconfused:
Yeah. Kinda odd. But not necessarily significant.


This just after a montage of scenes throughout Eugene's time with Fyron, too, with narration talking of the father-son relationship they had. If Fyron already HAD a son, that would rather complicate matters, or else they would all be one happy family. I can't believe that Eugene and Fyron could be that close and yet the son's death doesn't warrant a mention.
Eh, Eugene doesn’t really pay much attention to relationships beyond how they affect him. It’s very possible that this father/son relationship did develop with Eugene, any progeny Fyron may have had got upset (possibly even running away), and Eugene just didn’t care. And Eugene’s just enough of a jackass that if he doesn’t consider a detail important, he wouldn’t mention it. The important thing is his relationship with Fyron, not some estranged kid’s temper tantrum.

Personally, I also consider the possibility that Roy had discovered just one of the other Fyron’s that Xykon killed, and assumed it to be related to the other Fyron. Not sure why such a thing would be important to this story, they way it’s developed so far. But we’ll see.


There was no hunting down. Xykon took a tour of Fyron's museum, saw a crown that he thought looked totally badass, and returned that night to steal it. He didn't even necessarily intend to kill its owner; he just wanted the crown.
See #434 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) for details.

[Leecros]

Eugene's set-up for the story makes it unlikely the son was in the building at all. He arrived with a takeaway meal for the two of them (as he apparently often did) to find Fyron and Xykon mid-standoff, and as he entered he was calling his master's name, not any others.

This just after a montage of scenes throughout Eugene's time with Fyron, too, with narration talking of the father-son relationship they had. If Fyron already HAD a son, that would rather complicate matters, or else they would all be one happy family. I can't believe that Eugene and Fyron could be that close and yet the son's death doesn't warrant a mention.


There was no hunting down. Xykon took a tour of Fyron's museum, saw a crown that he thought looked totally badass, and returned that night to steal it. He didn't even necessarily intend to kill its owner; he just wanted the crown.

all right, thanks for clearing that up.

[Zoom-Zoom]

Order of the Stick Adventure Game character card lists Belkar as 32.

Vaarsuvius’s card almost certainly contains a transposition error, with a value of 103. This is too young for standard elf age categories.


On checking, V's age is given as "130?" in both NCftPB and W&XPs.

V's application form in OtOoPCs (is that the cool way to abbreviate it? I'm new here) says 103, too. Is that more canonical because it's been in an actual strip in V's actual handwriting? :smallsmile: But then there's all those "I've been studying magic for 100 years" references...

Actually, I finally came to the forums after reading OOTS for years to look for a sixty-six thread - as in, how long ago did the Order of the Scribble build the Gates? Shojo's narrative starts with "Sixty-six years ago...", then Soon recruits his team, travels the world, fights monsters, builds the Gates, forms the Sapphire Guard, grows old, hands over power to Shojo's father and dies... and judging by Shojo's age it's still sixty-six years ago. It bugs me and I'm sure there's a thread on it already, so could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks!

[derfenrirwolv]

Thats easy enough... V lied about their age.

Put another check in the female column.

[Leecros]

Thats easy enough... V lied about their age.

Put another check in the female column.

um...men do it too

[Nimrod's Son]

Actually, I finally came to the forums after reading OOTS for years to look for a sixty-six thread - as in, how long ago did the Order of the Scribble build the Gates? Shojo's narrative starts with "Sixty-six years ago...", then Soon recruits his team, travels the world, fights monsters, builds the Gates, forms the Sapphire Guard, grows old, hands over power to Shojo's father and dies... and judging by Shojo's age it's still sixty-six years ago. It bugs me and I'm sure there's a thread on it already, so could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks!
I don't think "grows old" was something Soon did between forming the guard and transferring power. Seems to me like he was already getting on a bit by the time the Snarl killed his wife.

At any rate, the Timeline Thread is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35936), which is probably the best place for that discussion.

[Zoom-Zoom]

I don't think "grows old" was something Soon did between forming the guard and transferring power. Seems to me like he was already getting on a bit by the time the Snarl killed his wife.

His hair turns white between the panel of 277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) in which he forms the guard and the panel in which he transfers power, so he did grow old - even if he just did it by advancing an age category overnight :smallamused:

The timeline thread makes Shojo 19 years old in that 'but a boy, learning at my father's knee' panel. He must have been really small for his age...

[Nimrod's Son]

he did grow old - even if he just did it by advancing an age category overnight :smallamused:
He may well have advanced an age category, sure, but if we assume his ghost-form is a representation of his Scribble days (as it appears) then he already had grey hair by that point.


The timeline thread makes Shojo 19 years old in that 'but a boy, learning at my father's knee' panel. He must have been really small for his age...
I agree it seems unlikely Rich meant him to be that old. That thread is still open for discussion if you want to dispute it there... though personally the numbers make my head hurt. :smallwink:

[Irbis]

um...men do it too

They do that to appear older. Women do that to appear younger.

Case closed :smallamused: