Spells for Killing Undead

[Tinydwarfman]

Are there any that aren't mind effecting? (apart from Mind Poison, which won't work unfortunately)

Really anything good at killing really huge undead. 11th level sorcerer.

Thank you!

EDIT: changed title

[EvilJoe15]

Power Leach (BoVD pg. #101)
Does 1 damage per round for 1 round/level. You also gain an enhancement to the same ability at 1:1, max +10.

Edit: You do take 1 point of wisdom drain, but there are ways around that.

[Tinydwarfman]

Power Leach (BoVD pg. #101)
Does 1 damage per round for 1 round/level. You also gain an enhancement to the same ability at 1:1, max +10.

Edit: You do take 1 point of wisdom drain, but there are ways around that.

I was thrilled! Then I saw it was "one living creature" and was :smallfrown:

[Hague]

Hrm... Mindcrusher weapons deal damage to a target's psionic point pool, and once that runs out, they take 1 wisdom damage each hit. This applies to non-psionic creatures. They get a DC 17 will save though, but it's non-mind-affecting. It applies this affect to ammunition, as well. It's a +2 bonus.

A 13th level Soulknife that has at least one level in Illumine Soul can deal mental damage to Undead with Knife to the Soul through their psychic strike.

[Coidzor]

Wait, I thought undead were immune to ability damage/drain as part of their type.

Ahh, so there is a loophole and that's what this thread is about.

Hmm. Good luck. :/hope there's something better than a soul knife. x.x

[EvilJoe15]

There's a spell somewhere that makes undead count as living for things like this, but I don't remember it's name.

[Hague]

Hah, I can make a Soulknife build that's awesome. It won't be a killer loop-hole rich wizard or cleric build, but it's not bad. With the right feats, you can turn them into a psychic chain tripper that can make trip attempts on all the enemies within reach, delivering a psychic strike for each one that they kill. Since it's not precision damage, I can cleave, kill, recharge strike, deal cleave damage with another psychic strike, kill, then make iterative attacks. So long as I kill a target every attack, I can continue to deal psychic strike damage every attack.

For instance, say I'm surrounded by undead enemies. With my levels in illumine soul, I can do a Bladewind attack with my reshaped spiked mind chain, it deals 2d6 extra damage from undead bane +7. If I have my psychic strike charged when I attack, and I kill an undead creature, Mind Cleave recharges my psychic strike, then the next attack hits, dealing more psychic strike damage, and so on. My last attack roll will be on the stronger creature, with a psychic strike charged, I can then deal mental damage. If it's a lich, I hit them with a wisdom damaging attack. If my spiked mind chain has Mindcrusher, I can deal 1 wisdom damage to every undead I hit with iterative strikes.

If I focus on using Knife to the Soul, I can disable opponents with mental damage, then when I feel the need, reattune my mind chain to Bodyfeeding or Mindfeeding (with a feat that lets me reattune my mind chain) and coup de grace them with psychic strike at my leisure, granting me large amounts of temporary hit points and psionic points (I use a few levels of psychic warrior to grant me expansion, compression, and some other powers)

[The Glyphstone]

spiked mind chain

Mind Cleave recharges my psychic strike,

spiked mind chain



....What book are you using? This is not 3.X WotC material...

[Hague]

Sure is, Dragon Magazine #341

Mind Cleave is in Complete Psionic

[The Glyphstone]

Sure is, Dragon Magazine #341

Mind Cleave is in Complete Psionic

Oh. Dragon. That explains it.:smallsigh::smallcool:

Then again, it's not like Soulknife doesn't desperately need the help.

[Hague]

Well, with all the feats, you can definitely see the advantage. Notably, if you combine the Practiced Mind Blade and the Kensai PrC, you can get a Mind Blade that has +5 or more enhancement bonus and +15 in other abilities.

[Darklord Xavez]

Take Undeath to Death next level. Until then, use Fireball. Or a cleric.
-Xavez

[Lord Vukodlak]

Take Undeath to Death next level. Until then, use Fireball. Or a cleric.
-Xavez
One tiny problem, Circle of Death has that damn
.No creature of 9 or more HD can be affected

And Undeath to Death,

This spell functions like circle of death, except that it destroys undead creatures as noted above.. The 9HD limit on Circle of Death applies to Undeath to Death.

I'd go for a more simple wall of fire, no save double damage vs undead. Make it a circular wall and you may be able to force the undead to pass through twice. Throw in a shadow binding and you an hold the undead in place via a reflex save so it takes continual damage from the spell.

[jiriku]

Disintigrate is your go-to spell for killing undead. With a poor Fort save and no Con modifier, they're pushovers to that spell. That's not going to help you much as a sorcerer 11 though.

Orb of fire works. Anything that deals enormous damage and doesn't offer a Will save, really. LV's wall of fire suggestion is pretty good. Your best tactic against powerful undead is often just to blow them to bits with the biggest blasting spell you've got.

[EvilJoe15]

How's this: Cast Stone Bones on him, yes I know that's a buff, but hear me out. It turns their bones to stone, now cast Transmute Rock to Mud No More Bones. Or you could cast Stone Shape, and lock them all together.

[Lord Vukodlak]

How's this: Cast Stone Bones on him, yes I know that's a buff, but hear me out. It turns their bones to stone, now cast Transmute Rock to Mud No More Bones. Or you could cast Stone Shape, and lock them all together.

Nice idea but the undead won't know what your casting on it so its going to resist even a helpful spell. If its a fleshy undead you don't be able to touch the bones to make them mud.

[Lapak]

What about plain old Command Undead? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm) It's only one at a time, but it's level 2 (and thus fairly spammable at level 11) and non-intelligent undead don't even get a save. Then tell them to walk off a cliff, which non-intelligent undead also don't get a save against. Slightly less one-shot for intelligent undead, but still.

[Tinydwarfman]

Thanks for the great advice guys, but unfortunately I really need a save or die. I don't think we'll be killing this thing with HP damage any time soon, so it needs to die from supernatural means. I didn't think command undead would work on it, seeing as it has HUGE HD, and a good will save, but it's worth a shot.

[Cheesy74]

How's this: Cast Stone Bones on him, yes I know that's a buff, but hear me out. It turns their bones to stone, now cast Transmute Rock to Mud No More Bones.
But then they become a Forsaken Shell. And nobody wants one of those things HD-advanced.

[mabriss lethe]

Spark of Life (Cl 3, Druid 4) is the spell you're looking for. It requires a will save and a touch attack, so it's kind of limited. however, it makes undead vulnerable to the same things as a living creature and lasts a round per level. From there, enervate knock down the saves and then hit it with whatever save or die you'd use on a living creature. (aside from anything that deals con damage, since they still don't have a con score.)

[Lord Vukodlak]

Thanks for the great advice guys, but unfortunately I really need a save or die. I don't think we'll be killing this thing with HP damage any time soon, so it needs to die from supernatural means. I didn't think command undead would work on it, seeing as it has HUGE HD, and a good will save, but it's worth a shot.

Well if he's mindless it doesn't matter command undead offers NO save for mindless undead. A ray of enfeeblement to lower his strength combined with a shadowbinding spell could keep him stuck in one place for a while giving you time to blast from a distance.

The real advantage undead have is those save or die powers tend not to work.

[Tinydwarfman]

Well if he's mindless it doesn't matter command undead offers NO save for mindless undead. A ray of enfeeblement to lower his strength combined with a shadowbinding spell could keep him stuck in one place for a while giving you time to blast from a distance.

The real advantage undead have is those save or die powers tend not to work.

Well, I'm 99% sure it will be intelligent, and thus have a save of around +20...

[Eldariel]

Split Ray Disintegrate under Beads of Karma would be what the doctor ordered. Unfortunately, don't think you have means to cast that given it's a level 6 spell and you're only 11... Metamagic Rod of Split Ray could be available though but I guess that doesn't help here.

But yeah, outside Disintegrate you could try the Will- and Reflex-save stuff. Unfortunately most of it won't kill it (Slow, Glitterdust, etc.) but they could make him more manageable. Unfortunately Polymorph Any Object is the first true Fort SoD I can think of that can target Undead.


EDIT: You could get a scroll of PAO crafted by someone with particularly high Int; that could work.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Split Ray Disintegrate under Beads of Karma would be what the doctor ordered. Unfortunately, don't think you have means to cast that given it's a level 6 spell and you're only 11... Metamagic Rod of Split Ray could be available though but I guess that doesn't help here.

But yeah, outside Disintegrate you could try the Will- and Reflex-save stuff. Unfortunately most of it won't kill it (Slow, Glitterdust, etc.) but they could make him more manageable. Unfortunately Polymorph Any Object is the first true Fort SoD I can think of that can target Undead.


EDIT: You could get a scroll of PAO crafted by someone with particularly high Int; that could work.

Assuming its not one of those undead that's not explicitly immune to polymorphic effects. Man was that PC in my campaign fuming his PaO was useless against the Lich.

[Eldariel]

Assuming its not one of those undead that's not explicitly immune to polymorphic effects. Man was that PC in my campaign fuming his PaO was useless against the Lich.

Well obviously; Disintegrate tends to be the spell of choice there anyways given Liches tend to have lowish HD. Of course, as it's a Lich, getting through all its defenses isn't quite trivial, but eh...

[BobVosh]

How has disrupting weapon not been mention? Sure you give it to those meaty things that stand in front of you, but it works well.

[Eldariel]

How has disrupting weapon not been mention? Sure you give it to those meaty things that stand in front of you, but it works well.

It gives Will-save, which was already determined to be somewhat unreliable in this scenario. Also, it's only a Cleric-spell. Disruption Weapon itself is a joke; DC 14 means it's basically 5% chance of killing the thing with each hit. You only need 14 hits to achieve over 50% probabilities of it dying with one of those. The issue, of course, is achieving 14 hits on the thing and managing to not kill it the oldfashioned way.

Undeath to Death is a fine SoD against undead except it also has a Will-save.

[Lysander]

Are we talking about intelligent or unintelligent dead? Because if unintelligent, illusions are your friend. You can lure them into pitfalls, hide behind illusory walls, and pull off all kinds of evil tricks.

[Krazddndfreek]

Even intelligent undead are immune to mind affecting effects.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Undeath to Death is a fine SoD against undead except it also has a Will-save.
And is limited to under 9HD just like circle of death. Undeath to Death is AS circle of death but it affects undead instead of living creatures.


Even intelligent undead are immune to mind affecting effects.

Illusions aren't necessarily mind affecting

[BobVosh]

It gives Will-save, which was already determined to be somewhat unreliable in this scenario. Also, it's only a Cleric-spell. Disruption Weapon itself is a joke; DC 14 means it's basically 5% chance of killing the thing with each hit. You only need 14 hits to achieve over 50% probabilities of it dying with one of those. The issue, of course, is achieving 14 hits on the thing and managing to not kill it the oldfashioned way.

Undeath to Death is a fine SoD against undead except it also has a Will-save.

Ya I meant the spell, the weapon enhancement is...well, it tries. It is still better than the circle of death to undead, and most other spells. It also last long enough that if your cleric focused on wisdom, like he should have, the BBEG should fail about 1 out of 4 with a good will save. 4 hits tends to be easy to do.

Also never mentioned what kind of caster.

[Eldariel]

Ya I meant the spell, the weapon enhancement is...well, it tries. It is still better than the circle of death to undead, and most other spells. It also last long enough that if your cleric focused on wisdom, like he should have, the BBEG should fail about 1 out of 4 with a good will save. 4 hits tends to be easy to do.

Also never mentioned what kind of caster.


11th level sorcerer.

From the OP.

[Hague]

Jade water Injury DC 14 Initial 1d4 Wis Secondary 1d4 Int, 1d4 Wis 350 gp

Use this. It affects undead like poison. The save DC is low, but it's a Fort save. Since it operates like poison, you can apply the Poison Spell metamagic to it and then cast Chill Touch to deal this damage as multiple touch attacks (additionally forcing it to flee while the ravage takes effect)

This damage is augmented, dealing +1 to evil undead and additional bonus damage equal to the creature's charisma bonus. The more powerful the force of will the evil creature is, the more a ravage affects it. That means 1d4+1+Target's Cha Bonus to Wis, then 1d4+1+Target's Cha Bonus to Int and 1d4+1+Target's Cha Bonus to Wisdom. The save DC is rather low though, but spells like improve virulency and the like might work on them at your DM's leisure. You might instead be able to research a spell that has this effect similar in level to a Poison spell.

Edit: Notably, Jade water is a suspension of jade crystals in holy water, so if used against undead directly, this has a functional contact vector as the injury caused by the holy water also acts as a vector for the ravage.