PDA

View Full Version : Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII



Pages : [1] 2

Private-Prinny
2010-07-02, 08:05 PM
Basically, a challenge to create an optimised, flavourful character, using a "Secret Ingredient" of a particular PrC, different for each contest. You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until Friday July 9th to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Private-Prinny. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavour for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic point lost in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when anonymising the entries!

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.


So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

This week's Secret Ingredient is (I apologize in advance)...

Complete Arcane's Green Star Adept!

Allez optimiser!

Judges
arguskos
Ingus
Ozymandias9
the humanity
true_shinken

Contestants
Akal_Saris
Amphetryon
Arbitrarity
Chineselegolas
Fax Celestis
Hand_of_Vecna
Keld Denar
Navigator
Octopus Jack
ShneekyTheLost
The Vorpal Tribble
WinWin

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I (Entropomancer) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II (Psibond Agent) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III (Cancer Mage) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV (Stonelord) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V (War Chanter) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI (Master of Masks) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)

arguskos
2010-07-02, 08:06 PM
1. I HATE GREEN STAR ADEPT. Nah, we coo, we coo, aightaight.

2. Hey, look, I'm judging again. Go figure. :smallamused:

Amphetryon
2010-07-02, 08:12 PM
1. You're an evil, evil monkey penguin, Prinny.

2. I'll compete. :smalltongue:

Arbitrarity
2010-07-02, 08:12 PM
Well, I planned for this. Contestant entering here.

Inquiry: How does the Improved Caster Level feature work? Does it give an additional 10 caster levels?

Private-Prinny
2010-07-02, 08:51 PM
1. You're an evil, evil monkey penguin, Prinny.

Sorry. I have a soft spot for interesting capstones:smalltongue: (Interesting =/= Good).


Inquiry: How does the Improved Caster Level feature work? Does it give an additional 10 caster levels?

Read the given example. That should clear things up.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-02, 08:52 PM
CURSE YOU.

That example doesn't even make sense due to BAB requirements!
Also, I'm going to use it in a very silly fashion.

WinWin
2010-07-02, 08:53 PM
Every level improves CL. Because of the wording, I'm going to assume it gets factored in before any other CL boosts.

I would like to compete if that is ok.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-02, 09:04 PM
I'll compete.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-02, 09:17 PM
Fax, are you thinking the same trick I am thinking of?

Fax Celestis
2010-07-02, 09:17 PM
I've no idea on what I'm going to do yet. I'll figure it out.

Draz74
2010-07-02, 09:22 PM
Fax, are you thinking the same trick I am thinking of?

I was, Arbitrarity. :smallwink:

Private-Prinny
2010-07-02, 09:37 PM
I was, Arbitrarity. :smallwink:

:smallconfused: Come on, there has to be more than one trick you guys can pull. Shock and amaze me.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-02, 09:47 PM
I was, Arbitrarity. :smallwink:

I am entertained. Did you derive why I asked Fax, and then jump to my concept?

So now I have three builds, of varying simplicity, complexity, and power. One of them uses one trick, the others both use another. I like the second trick for simplicity, but it lacks originality. The first trick is questionable, and rather inelegant.

Ech. In retrospect, the trick is pointless because of the nature of the third build. That makes it just simple, and ultimately unoriginal.

First trick it is then. Hopefully comprehensible.

Grrr, this thread (http://web.archive.org/web/20070717202522rn_1/boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-695290)

Draz74
2010-07-02, 11:07 PM
I am entertained. Did you derive why I asked Fax, and then jump to my concept?

Nope, even better. I thought of your concept myself, then I saw Fax post and assumed he thought of the same concept, and thought maybe I wouldn't use it after all. Then I saw that you had come to the same conclusion about Fax posting (even though he, apparently, hadn't).

:biggrin:

One way or another, though, at this point I'm not planning to enter this round of Iron Chef. Though I'll change my mind if I get struck by inspiration.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-02, 11:12 PM
*grumble* stupid example. Complete Arcane errata even says that text trumps examples. And that means I don't even know what the RAW is for that new magical houseruled ability. Does that mean that the two features don't stack, or does it mean that the spellcasting advancement doesn't provide caster level advancement, or that caster level advancement only occurs every other level? For example, if I multiclass, can I apply the caster level advancement to one class, and the spellcasting advancement to the other, and end up with 15 total advanced caster levels (i.e. Fighter 2/wizard 2/Sorceror 2/GSA 10 with a CL of 12 for Sorceror, and 7 for wizard, with 7'th level wizard casting and second level sorceror casting), or arrrrgh brain explodes.

the humanity
2010-07-02, 11:13 PM
oooh... I dunno about this one...

Green Star...

you are just mean Prinny.

Ozymandias9
2010-07-03, 05:25 AM
*grumble* stupid example. Complete Arcane errata even says that text trumps examples. And that means I don't even know what the RAW is for that new magical houseruled ability. Does that mean that the two features don't stack, or does it mean that the spellcasting advancement doesn't provide caster level advancement, or that caster level advancement only occurs every other level? For example, if I multiclass, can I apply the caster level advancement to one class, and the spellcasting advancement to the other, and end up with 15 total advanced caster levels (i.e. Fighter 2/wizard 2/Sorceror 2/GSA 10 with a CL of 12 for Sorceror, and 7 for wizard, with 7'th level wizard casting and second level sorceror casting), or arrrrgh brain explodes.

To my eye, it means that you apply a caster level advancement every level, and a "Spells known/spells per day advancement" as indicated (without CL increase). The don't seem to be linked though. And I wouldn't call it a house rule, but rather a more conservative reading of one of the most long-contested points of 3.5. We should get the chairman to give a formal ruling before the competition gets too far under way though:

Is it:
1)+10 CL and +5 levels of spells known/per day, linked
2)as 1, but unlinked (applicable to different classes)
3)+10 CL and +5 (CL, spells/day, spells know), linked
4) as 3, unlinked

Incidentally, in to judge.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-03, 05:30 AM
To my eye, it means that you apply a caster level advancement every level, and a "Spells known/spells per day advancement" as indicated (without CL increase). The don't seem to be linked though.

Incidentally, in to judge.

The wording is exactly the same as every other arcane casting PrC, except it lacks the clarifying "this essentially means that she adds the level of xxx to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly". It's the same as every PrC in complete arcane. Do you want to argue Master Specialist doesn't progress caster level?

Ozymandias9
2010-07-03, 05:40 AM
The wording is exactly the same as every other arcane casting PrC, except it lacks the clarifying "this essentially means that she adds the level of xxx to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly". It's the same as every PrC in complete arcane. Do you want to argue Master Specialist doesn't progress caster level?

Edit: Actually, since I don't see that clarifying text anywhere in "Complete Arcane". And Master Specialist is "Complete Mage," which calls it "spellcasting," not "spells per day/spells known." So you could certainly make that argument for, say, Alienist.

Not that I would in general, but it's a sufficiently litigious reading to be backed up. In this case however, the goal of the competition is to show your character design skills, not to point out the flaws in 3.5 design. A conservative reading of questionable mechanics is in keeping with that goal.

Also, I edited my prior post for clarity: its certainly not the only reading, but it's one of the more conservative. And the details of this effect have been questioned since the book came out.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-03, 07:19 AM
Is it:
1)+10 CL and +5 levels of spells known/per day, linked
2)as 1, but unlinked (applicable to different classes)
3)+10 CL and +5 (CL, spells/day, spells know), linked
4) as 3, unlinked

Incidentally, in to judge.

The bolded one.

To clarify a bit, every level increases caster level, but every even level does it by virtue of increasing your spellcasting. They toss the special effect on there to indicate that every odd level gives you a CL boost only, as per the example (which, again, is illegal, but it serves its purpose).

You get a CL boost to whichever class gets the spellcasting advancement, so Arbitrarity's example could end up with CL 7 for both wizard and sorcerer, with the spells per day/spells known of a 7th level wizard and 2nd level sorcerer.

true_shinken
2010-07-03, 07:27 AM
Oh, so it is Green Star Adept after all!
I'm definetly in as a contestant!



To clarify a bit, every level increases caster level, but every even level does it by virtue of increasing your spellcasting. They toss the special effect on there to indicate that every odd level gives you a CL boost only, as per the example (which, again, is illegal, but it serves its purpose).
I'm not sure about that, Prinny.

Let's see Acolyte of the Skin text:
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each even-numbered level, an acolyte of the skin gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved
chance of turning or destroying undead, a bonus feat, and so on). If he had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an acolyte of the skin, he must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.
Now, GSA text:
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every even-numbered level, a Green Star adept gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as the bonus feat sometimes gained by a wizard). If he had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a Green Star adept, he must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.
As you see, it's basically the same text. By your reasoning, Acolyte of the Skin would give you extra spells known and extra spell slots but no increase in caster level. I read as GSA's gaining a total of +5 level os spells known/slots and a +10 increase in caster levels; for a total of +15 to CL over the course of 10 levels.

Ingus
2010-07-03, 07:31 AM
As already said, I'd like to judge this one.

Look it good, cause the devil is in the details. :smallwink:

Munchkin-Masher
2010-07-03, 07:42 AM
I'll try judging.

This ought to be interesting.:smallsmile:

Amphetryon
2010-07-03, 07:56 AM
I read as GSA's gaining a total of +5 level os spells known/slots and a +10 increase in caster levels; for a total of +15 to CL over the course of 10 levelsThat reading, while interesting, appears to contradict the ruling of the contest's final arbiter. I would be leery of making a build based on a reading of the Class that Prinny has stated does not apply to the contest, personally.

Speaking of being leery, call my 'once bitten, twice shy' for asking: Are there any specific books that, while legal, are likely to cause any of our illustrious judges to downgrade our scores?

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-07-03, 08:01 AM
I'd say go conservative because all it can really do is hurt you. Judges that don't like the stacking interpretation will hit you hard in elegance and realistically if the judge is ok with your reading it will help your power but they should apply the extra cl to the builds that don't point it out since that's how they interpret the rules. So a net loss for you.

Anyway I think I'll compete this time around.

Octopus Jack
2010-07-03, 08:25 AM
I would like to compete and build upon my 7th place I got last time, come on 6th OJ wants ya!

true_shinken
2010-07-03, 08:36 AM
That reading, while interesting, appears to contradict the ruling of the contest's final arbiter. I would be leery of making a build based on a reading of the Class that Prinny has stated does not apply to the contest, personally.

Yeah, I'm just trying to change his mind on this. My build will work mostly the same way.
Also, Complete Arcane errata even mentions that text trumps table and statblocks, so I'm even more inclined to say it is +15 CL on 10 levels. But if Prinny is set at +10 CL on 10 levels, that's okay.
EDIT: Forget it. There is an example within the very text of the ability that disallows it. I believe PrivatePrinny catched onto this before me. Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day... Probably because of the RAWxRAI debate always going on there, but the RAI is so clear here with even an example to go with that RAW is completly irrelevant.

Ozymandias9
2010-07-03, 10:21 AM
Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day...
They did. The answer is usually that "Wizard 5 can't even enter anyways, and examples are unreliable."

Ingus
2010-07-03, 11:42 AM
Since it could be useful, as past judges, I'll give some pre-contest guideline of my criteria.

Originality: As this build expected, the most obvious way, already put together by others? If the former is someway true, is there any original addiction?
So, to say: 1- Pretty obvious entry, pretty obvious mechanic, pretty obvious feats, equipment, classes selection; 5- Totally unexpected entry, totally unexpected dynamics, totally unexpected mesh out.

Power: Does do a thing very well and has the flexibility to avoid anti-"that thing"? 1- Very poor build, not able to survive, nor fit well in a party unless greatly hepled or, as a monster, unlikely to pose a threat to a party of same level; 5 - Wizard + Incantatrix + Master of sevenfold veil? Eat my shorts!*

Use of secret ingredient: Is the secret ingredient in some way crucial to the build? If not, is it at least good as - or better than - other solutions or even linear development? 1- Not only the secret ingredient is not crucial, but it seems also a waste of levels*. 5- Hey, without the secret ingredient your PC wuold be less powerful or less elegant or less suited for the story. Moreover, you created a dynamic not reproducible if not for the secret ingredient, or at least so difficult to mimic that it would be a waste of time and resources*.
*Note that I'll not be strict with that. Does not consider everything that is not Tier 1 less than optimal in this sections. Just think: given my decision of what my entry wuold be/do, is the secret ingredient fit or it is a waste/hamper?

Elegance: This is difficult. Since I like backstory, you'll have a plus if will provide a good one. You will have a plus if the backstory matches well with the character. Use of light cheese is tolerated i mechanically works and tends to add flavour. If it seems solely added for power, you'll have a higher score in power, a lower in elegance. I don't ban any book allowed, but as usual use of flaw hits elegance, mechanical excesses hit elegance (see Seera from past Iron Chef), carving blood from stones definitely hits elegance.
1- Use of well known cheese (it hits originality too), not in line with the backstory and/or the general purpose of the build, just to improve power. Overall role and do and dont's absent 5- Wandeful base concept, very well exploited and shown up, explaination to understand the goods and bads of entry, all fitted well in the concept and backstory**.
**You don't need to write much. Few good words can be equally good.

Overall, I guess I'll go between 2 and 4, giving more or less than that to those whom deserve it

As suggestions: Green Star Adept seems good for gishes. I expect a melee, magical emproved combatant that exploits his resistences. There are a lot of more exploits, but if you're unsure, go straight.
Good luck to everybody

true_shinken
2010-07-03, 12:46 PM
They did. The answer is usually that "Wizard 5 can't even enter anyways, and examples are unreliable."

But that's irrelevant within the confines of the aforementioned rule. It's within the same block of text, not within a statblock, so it is in fact part of the class rules, even if it contains an incorrect example.
Heck, I'll have to edit my handbooks because of this.

Akal Saris
2010-07-03, 01:23 PM
Bah, Green Star Adept. It looks like we have enough judges already, so I'll compete this go around. No promises though, I've never liked this PrC very much.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-03, 02:48 PM
OK, so I'll use that. 10 CLs total is fine, I just like arguing as a way to vent :smallbiggrin:

Makes me wonder what benefits I actually get from the class, but that's ok. I suppose I can do those two, though they're a bit limited.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-03, 02:51 PM
I really hate the +4 BAB requirement. My perfect build is still off by +1 :roy:

Private-Prinny
2010-07-03, 04:29 PM
EDIT: Forget it. There is an example within the very text of the ability that disallows it. I believe PrivatePrinny catched onto this before me. Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day... Probably because of the RAWxRAI debate always going on there, but the RAI is so clear here with even an example to go with that RAW is completly irrelevant.

I did catch that before I posted my response, and since text>all except errata, I made the choice that I did, with it being RAW and all.


Speaking of being leery, call my 'once bitten, twice shy' for asking: Are there any specific books that, while legal, are likely to cause any of our illustrious judges to downgrade our scores?

Dragon Compendium springs to mind, as well as the more broken things in Savage Species. I also wouldn't blame them for marking down mixing campaign settings i.e. FR and Eberron material in the same build.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-07-03, 06:06 PM
I'll be a contestant on this one. I've got two different ideas for this build, both entirely legal, both rather interesting and useful. One is slightly more complicated than the other, but judging the previous competition showed me something about 1/2 casting progression classes that is... interesting.

also interesting to note, if you don't wish to become a construct, loose all your Con score, and all associated issues with the final level, there is a simple solution: Starmetal Dependency. You simply decline to undergo the final ritual, and you don't get the special abilities of the final level, although you still get BAB/Saves/HP/etc...

However, what this will do to both your elegance and Use of Secret Ingredient scores is on your head.

Amphetryon
2010-07-04, 05:42 AM
Gah. I keep looking at builds and wondering why someone wouldn't roll up a Warforged to do at least 3/4 of what they picked a GSA for...

Heliomance
2010-07-04, 05:47 AM
Why is it that I keep getting cool ideas that won't work mechanically? Renegade Mastermaker will not work with GSA, certainly not without becoming the focus of the build!

*.*.*.*
2010-07-04, 06:25 AM
Quick Question(not relating to the contest really): How does GSA work with the Ardent?

Amphetryon
2010-07-04, 06:28 AM
Quick Question(not relating to the contest really): How does GSA work with the Ardent?

Unless your DM rules that psionic/magic transparency also applies to caster/manifester levels, I don't think it works particularly well at all.

*.*.*.*
2010-07-04, 06:30 AM
Unless your DM rules that psionic/magic transparency also applies to caster/manifester levels, I don't think it works particularly well at all.

Fair enough, I've seen that whole manifester=caster thing used before. Thanks for the speedy answer

Chineselegolas
2010-07-04, 07:34 AM
I'm back as a competitor having missed the last Iron Chef being busy with exams.

Will be interesting considering I like to play beat-sticks or gishes, so this could be down my alley... Though I do agree, is a terrible class. Ah well, got some possibly ideas up my sleeve which might work...

Private-Prinny
2010-07-04, 09:58 AM
Just got the first submission in. I honestly expected another couple of days before that happened.

Ingus
2010-07-04, 10:36 AM
Just got the first submission in. I honestly expected another couple of days before that happened.

All your fault: you've announced it too much in advance (it wouldn't be such a big deal, it is just for kidding).

To all the others. Try not to ask too much and not cooperate too much. With all the chit-chat, I fear that something I considered original wouldn't be so, in the end.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-04, 11:18 AM
To all the others. Try not to ask too much and not cooperate too much. With all the chit-chat, I fear that something I considered original wouldn't be so, in the end.

^This is correct. That's part of why speculation is against the rules of the competition. Unfortunately, there's pretty much no way to actually enforce it.

arguskos
2010-07-04, 11:37 AM
By the by, due to the nature of GSA and it's Capstone, I will NOT be marking down on Elegance/Use of GSA if you take only 9 levels. Now, if you take 10 levels and surprise me, you'll get a higher score, but I am not penalizing specifically for taking 9 levels.

Thought it was fair in this circumstance, seeing as how level 10 of GSA is just HORRIFICALLY BAD and ruins characters.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-04, 01:17 PM
Sounds like torture fun. I'll try to get something up.

Ozymandias9
2010-07-04, 01:18 PM
I'm of a similar mind-- I usually score the same for 9/10 and 10/10 anyways. If however, you have a strong use of the capstone (something I don't expect a strong use for) you'll probably be scored up for it.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-04, 01:37 PM
I'll be the first to admit this class isn't the strongest, but c'mon folks, the flavor of the thing is awesome and makes for a great story. I like the class :smallcool:

SlyGuyMcFly
2010-07-04, 01:41 PM
Gah. I keep looking at builds and wondering why someone wouldn't roll up a Warforged to do at least 3/4 of what they picked a GSA for...

Warforged GSA? :smalltongue:

No, I have no idea if that's even allowed

Heliomance
2010-07-04, 01:51 PM
As far as I can tell it there's nothing against it, but the GSA capstone specifically calls out all the things you lose - like your con score - so you'd lose all the benefits of being a warforged anyway.

Navigator
2010-07-04, 03:20 PM
I would very much like to be a contestant for this Iron Chef. It'll be my first time, so I'm totally ignorant of submission method. I already have a skeleton of the build done, so it should be complete in a couple days.

Keld Denar
2010-07-04, 03:24 PM
I'm competing. I already have the entire build, including skills and spell list done. Just adding in my thesis on synergy and level break analysis. Yay!

Pechvarry
2010-07-04, 04:45 PM
Random topic of judging, I've been seeing this a lot in previous competitions:


Originality: 3. It’s an unexpected build, but I’ve seen shock trooper/tripping builds so often that I sometimes forget there are melees out there who don’t take that path.

Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.

I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?

Gametime
2010-07-04, 05:48 PM
Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.

I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?

If the best build you can make involves using the staples, then you aren't being very original. The build might be fine in many other respects, but by its very nature the category of originality requires you to blaze your own trail.

Ingus
2010-07-04, 06:22 PM
I would very much like to be a contestant for this Iron Chef. It'll be my first time, so I'm totally ignorant of submission method. I already have a skeleton of the build done, so it should be complete in a couple days.

The introduction to this thread has a recap of all the former contests. You can look at them to inspire yourself on how to post (strongly suggested, also to confront with overall quality).
If you need some specific help, don't exitate and ask

arguskos
2010-07-04, 07:03 PM
I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
No, we shouldn't stop low-scoring that. See, I've nothing against the originals, the basics, the old standbys. To use the cooking analogy, they're the famous basic flavors, cumin and thyme and paprika, the good old boys, the standards. This isn't about them, though.

This is about ORIGINALITY. If the best thing you can serve me is the old standbys, well, it'll taste ok, but it's not ORIGINAL. Instead of mustard, make me a dressing out of pine nuts (had this IRL, was amazing), make me a spicy and tart ketchup out of orange tomatoes, make me something fresh and NEW. Even if it's risky, well, try it! I'll score you high in originality, and hey, it might come out well. :smallwink:

Amphetryon
2010-07-04, 07:38 PM
Instead of mustard, make me a dressing out of pine nuts (had this IRL, was amazing), make me a spicy and tart ketchup out of orange tomatoes, make me something fresh and NEW. Even if it's risky, well, try it! I'll score you high in originality, and hey, it might come out well. :smallwink:The trouble with GSA is it has as much spice as plain tofu... :smallyuk:

Arbitrarity
2010-07-04, 08:02 PM
IMHO, there are three useful abilities you can wring unique tricks out of. One of them is minor, and the other two are potentially incredible but unlikely to fly, since they rely on specific readings, and/or are well known cheese, and thus unoriginal.

AHA. Found a good one :smallbiggrin: Makes it all worthwhile. Aaaand fails. Curse you, balance!

Keld Denar
2010-07-04, 08:18 PM
My entry is submitted. I wonder if anyone else came up with the same devious synergy trick I came up with? In the immortal words of every TV, movie, and comic book BBEG ever...Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

arguskos
2010-07-04, 08:19 PM
The trouble with GSA is it has as much spice as plain tofu... :smallyuk:
...Tofu is one of the best base foods in existence. The fact that it's bland means that every single thing you add can be tasted with ease. Spice well, gentlemen.


My entry is submitted. I wonder if anyone else came up with the same devious synergy trick I came up with? In the immortal words of every TV, movie, and comic book BBEG ever...Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
Power: 0. :smalltongue:

Arbitrarity
2010-07-04, 08:22 PM
I believe I'm being mocked :smallbiggrin:

Ajadea
2010-07-04, 10:22 PM
I'm entering! Now I'll go read the excerpt carefully and drop in an entry soon.

Ingus
2010-07-05, 05:06 AM
Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.

I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?

Please let me answer this.

As a matter of fact, D&D optimizers across the world had tried hard to optimize classes and PrC all around (and bragged about it via forums). So, much of the classics ways of optimization would not be original. It is a problem, indeed. But this is an intellectual problem you can overcome with other "ingredients".
If you put up an astonishing, original build which incidentally has reach+trip, that would be rated quite good in originality nevertheless.

Please also mind that your entry would be eventually hit in just one out of four parameters: originality. Let me talk personally. In Iron Chef IV, I've submitted a spiked chain tripper (not original), knowing that it wouldn't be original.
On the other hand, in Iron Chef V, I've posted a strongly original build, knowing that elegance, instead, would be the weak point and maybe power would be unvaluable.
Last entry, Iron Chef VI, I've put in a powerful, very powerful build, expecting a bloodening in elegance (which happened :smalltongue:).

...all to say that you can't make a omelet without killing a few people, or, in other words, noone since now has hitten a 5 in all parameters and you should maybe drop a parameter to follow a good idea.

...except, maybe, if you're Akal Saris :smalltongue:

Pechvarry
2010-07-05, 10:55 AM
If you put up an astonishing, original build which incidentally has reach+trip, that would be rated quite good in originality nevertheless.

To elaborate, I don't mind it getting counted down a bit, but it always feels like such melee tricks get a -2 originality in addition to whatever other penalty they had in mind for the build -- but I'm likely taking it way out of proportion. I just feel like it's worth noting that it gets judged harshly, but I don't see any penalties for the very large multitude of entries across all past tournaments which have Craven or rely on UMD to be effective.

But I should probably shut my mouth, I keep getting cold feats and don't join up.


you can't make a omelet without killing a few people

I definitely lol'd.

arguskos
2010-07-05, 11:43 AM
To elaborate, I don't mind it getting counted down a bit, but it always feels like such melee tricks get a -2 originality in addition to whatever other penalty they had in mind for the build -- but I'm likely taking it way out of proportion. I just feel like it's worth noting that it gets judged harshly, but I don't see any penalties for the very large multitude of entries across all past tournaments which have Craven or rely on UMD to be effective.

But I should probably shut my mouth, I keep getting cold feats and don't join up.
The difference you're noting is as follows:

-Some builds do nothing BUT be a chain tripper. This is unoriginal.
-Other builds use UMD as their main combat tactic, but do like a dozen other creative things aside.

Now, if there was a build that just optimized UMD out the wazoo and didn't DO anything else, ok, I'd mark that bitch down in a heart beat, since we've all seen it before. Similarly, when a chain tripper who does lots of other things shows up, I don't mark it down.

Ingus
2010-07-05, 02:45 PM
@Pechvarry: Just to answer you... If you have a UMD trick alone on which the build counts for power, in my opinion you're unoriginal.
But yes, it is difficult, damn difficult to keep your entry effective, original and powerful, granted that secret ingredients are usually picked to be nothing of this (except, maybe, originals :smalltongue:)

If you take it as a challenge, however, you'll have a lot of fun (and since you don't win money [or someone is definitely cheating me :smallbiggrin:], I guess this is the purpose) and you'll improve.
If you go past, you'll see that early IC were poorer than recents, at least for fluff and with no offense for partecipants. Everyone is improved doing it, so you can too.

And, by the way, for lol thaks Neil Gaiman (the joke was unoriginal too :smallbiggrin:)

true_shinken
2010-07-05, 02:45 PM
Similarly, when a chain tripper who does lots of other things shows up, I don't mark it down.

I believe the thing is an optimized chain tripper does not actually need to pull different tricks. If he has mobility and senses covered, he just needs to trip the heck out of people (that's the basis of the much praised Horizon Tripper). Maybe you could list a back-up combat style, but any character can pick up a bow and fight anyway.
The same "problem" affects chargers and I don't see they getting lower scores, btw.

Ozymandias9
2010-07-05, 02:53 PM
I believe the thing is an optimized chain tripper does not actually need to pull different tricks. If he has mobility and senses covered, he just needs to trip the heck out of people (that's the basis of the much praised Horizon Tripper). Maybe you could list a back-up combat style, but any character can pick up a bow and fight anyway.
The same "problem" affects chargers and I don't see they getting lower scores, btw.

Because its definitionally not original. You're not indicating any mechanical innovation, and originality is a stated judging criteria. What originality would such a build be demonstrating?

arguskos
2010-07-05, 03:02 PM
I believe the thing is an optimized chain tripper does not actually need to pull different tricks. If he has mobility and senses covered, he just needs to trip the heck out of people (that's the basis of the much praised Horizon Tripper). Maybe you could list a back-up combat style, but any character can pick up a bow and fight anyway.
The same "problem" affects chargers and I don't see they getting lower scores, btw.
I've not scored chain trippers badly on power ever. I HAVE scored them low on originality.

For reference, here, have a definition of originality:
"Originality is the aspect of created or invented works by as being new or novel, and thus can be distinguished from reproductions, clones, forgeries, or derivative works."

A chain tripper is not new or novel. See my issue with it yet? Same thing with a pure Craven sneak attacker who does nothing else, or a supercharger who does nothing else, or a Giamonk who does nothing else. I score them ALL low on Originality.

Ajadea
2010-07-05, 04:12 PM
What the heck am I supposed to do about Concentration? At first I thought it worked like the undead: Charisma for Concentration. But it doesn't. So what? Do I automatically fail Concentration checks or does it just work as if my Constitution was set to 10?

arguskos
2010-07-05, 04:15 PM
What the heck am I supposed to do about Concentration? At first I thought it worked like the undead: Charisma for Concentration. But it doesn't. So what? Do I automatically fail Concentration checks or does it just work as if my Constitution was set to 10?
You have no Con score. As per the rules for having a non-ability, the modifier is always considered +0.

Draz74
2010-07-05, 05:20 PM
You have no Con score. As per the rules for having a non-ability, the modifier is always considered +0.

Unless you also have another ability that "moves" the modifier to a different ability score. Incorporeal, for example, "moves" a couple things from Constitution to a different ability score.

Amphetryon
2010-07-05, 05:28 PM
Unless you also have another ability that "moves" the modifier to a different ability score. Incorporeal, for example, "moves" a couple things from Constitution to a different ability score.

An Incorporeal GSA makes me very confused... :smallconfused:

Heliomance
2010-07-05, 05:29 PM
I forget - according to the Savage Species type pyramid, which takes precedence, undead or construct?

Draz74
2010-07-05, 05:37 PM
An Incorporeal GSA makes me very confused... :smallconfused:

Yep, I'm hoping somebody tries it so I can see how it works out. :smallbiggrin:

Private-Prinny
2010-07-05, 05:40 PM
I forget - according to the Savage Species type pyramid, which takes precedence, undead or construct?

According to the sourcebook, yes.


Construct, Outsider, Undead: These three types resideat the top of the pyramid. Once a creature becomes an undead or a construct through the application of a templete, it cannot become something else. Once a creature stops being a native of the Material Plane, it becomes an outsider and stays one.

true_shinken
2010-07-05, 08:03 PM
Because its definitionally not original. You're not indicating any mechanical innovation, and originality is a stated judging criteria. What originality would such a build be demonstrating?

Like the previous poster mentioned, that's akin as taking points from a Wizard build that uses Fly and Haste as core spells.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-05, 08:03 PM
Wait, so a Necropolitan GSA wouldn't become a construct?

Craaazy.

arguskos
2010-07-05, 08:04 PM
Unless you also have another ability that "moves" the modifier to a different ability score. Incorporeal, for example, "moves" a couple things from Constitution to a different ability score.
I assumed you didn't have any such thing. If you do, well, alright then, that's a much more complex story.

Ozymandias9
2010-07-05, 10:40 PM
Like the previous poster mentioned, that's akin as taking points from a Wizard build that uses Fly and Haste as core spells.

Having fly and haste I would disagree on. If they, however, presented something close to a batman wizard (either in play-style or spell selection), I would score down for that too. As point of fact, I scored down a gish last round because they were using a concept that has been very well covered by past CharOp and not providing any particular innovation for the concept.

Moreover, I would question how exactly you would see originality functioning as a category. Are you seriously suggesting that we award a 5 to a build that is, mechanically, almost indistinguishable from a standard charger other than the PRC?

Pechvarry
2010-07-05, 11:01 PM
Now, if there was a build that just optimized UMD out the wazoo and didn't DO anything else, ok, I'd mark that bitch down in a heart beat, since we've all seen it before. Similarly, when a chain tripper who does lots of other things shows up, I don't mark it down.

And at this, I'm quite satisfied. As long as the build is being de-pointed because it doesn't seem to do anything but chain trip, as opposed to it being a build that just so happens to trip instead of full attack + extra dice of damage along with the real meat of the build (for instance, if you're adding 3 stats to STR checks anyway, you're silly not abuse it as often as possible), I'm totally happy.

Btw, I was totally happy with the last round's judging. I'm finding it very fascinating to see, over the course of many competitions, how the builds and the scoring have developed in such a way that common themes and methods emerge. For instance, block-of-text w/out story doesn't get a lot in originality. And, to touch on what Ingus said before, it's cool to see how a lot of builds are obviously willing to take hits in certain areas to improve the overall. Perfect example: Seera (or so I think the build was named) in the last competition. Amazingly brilliant artificer/MoM, mine eyes were boggled. Who DIDN'T expect that build to lose points in elegance?

Man, I should do this more often. Me discussing the meta-competition has made it hard to discuss potential GSA builds. :P

Ingus
2010-07-06, 04:54 AM
Like the previous poster mentioned, that's akin as taking points from a Wizard build that uses Fly and Haste as core spells.

In 3.5 is difficult to abuse Haste, but a Fly core caster/escapist would be all except original (I saw one at my very first d&d game, so...). Moreover, if someone does it, I suppose it will hit even a poorer score in originality: since as a spellcaster you have millions of options, one would be less indulgent if you did something so uninventive.





Btw, I was totally happy with the last round's judging. I'm finding it very fascinating to see, over the course of many competitions, how the builds and the scoring have developed in such a way that common themes and methods emerge.


As a suggestion to anybody: links to previous competitions are not there to let you see how cool usual competitors are, but to get inspiration and an overall look on how something is judged (overall: be warned that any judge has his own taste and the right to have it :smallwink:).

WinWin
2010-07-06, 06:57 AM
speaking of versatitility, how does that affect scoring?

One trick may cause a build to lose points, but a build that can use many different tricks might do well?

To give an example, a dimplomacer will score badly. A chain tripper will score badly. A swiftblade gish will score badly. A character that can do all 3 score scores well?

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-07-06, 07:42 AM
speaking of versatitility, how does that affect scoring?

One trick may cause a build to lose points, but a build that can use many different tricks might do well?

To give an example, a dimplomacer will score badly. A chain tripper will score badly. A swiftblade gish will score badly. A character that can do all 3 score scores well?

I don't know about current judges, but I know if I saw Diplomancer tactics, regardless of other tricks the character might have, I'd score you down on Elegance due to 'Use of Known Cheese'.

WinWin
2010-07-06, 07:50 AM
What is known cheese?

Rules breaking stuff that is in core, or does it include everying in the completes as well?

Wish loops would be bad I guess. Chain Summoning. Diplomancy. Shadow spawning. Nightstick DMM abuse. I'm sure these is plenty of other stuff I don't know about. At what point does optimization become cheese?

Private-Prinny
2010-07-06, 07:55 AM
What is known cheese?

Rules breaking stuff that is in core, or does it include everying in the completes as well?

Wish loops would be bad I guess. Chain Summoning. Diplomancy. Shadow spawning. Nightstick DMM abuse. I'm sure these is plenty of other stuff I don't know about. At what point does optimization become cheese?

When it so very clearly breaks RAI. Chain Gating is cheese, since you get your own personal army. Diplomancy is cheese because having a snarling dragon hand over his treasure horde after a few words and a winning smile should not be how DCs work. Pun-Pun is cheese because... if I have to explain that one, I'll become very sad.

WinWin
2010-07-06, 08:05 AM
Okay. I just thought I would ask. RAI differs from person to person though. Only the author knows what they intended. Readers interpret what they intended. That interpretation can vary. I am not trying to start a RAI/RAW debate though.

I am looking forward to see the end results of the competition. I hope my build is not too cheesey for the tastes of the judges.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-06, 08:59 AM
I am looking forward to see the end results of the competition. I hope my build is not too cheesey for the tastes of the judges.
I rather hope to intoxicate them... :smallamused:

okpokalypse
2010-07-06, 10:17 AM
How will buying off an ECL affect scoring? I know UA is allowed, but it seems cartain aspects will affect elegance, and I don't wanna do such, but I do want to get a 20-Level Progression :)

Private-Prinny
2010-07-06, 10:26 AM
How will buying off an ECL affect scoring? I know UA is allowed, but it seems cartain aspects will affect elegance, and I don't wanna do such, but I do want to get a 20-Level Progression :)

Characters are given 190,000 XP. This is exactly enough to get to level 20. LA buyoff, Chaos Shuffle, Chain Gating, and personal item crafting bring you below this threshold, which helps stop some otherwise very broken things.

Short answer: LA yes, buyoff no.

Cieyrin
2010-07-06, 10:31 AM
How will buying off an ECL affect scoring? I know UA is allowed, but it seems certain aspects will affect elegance, and I don't wanna do such, but I do want to get a 20-Level Progression :)

It varies by judge but you generally get hit in Elegance to the tune of half to a full point.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a Prinny. :smallfrown:

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 11:47 AM
I have a (1) Nightstick down on my suggested equipment list, but no Divine Metamagic. Nightsticks tend to have a rather nasty connotation to them. Its very helpful, but not vital to the build. I hope this isn't gonna hurt me score, will it? :smallcool:

EDIT: Even though I've submitted my entry, I'm still not on the list of contestants. Did you get my PM Private-Prinny?

arguskos
2010-07-06, 12:01 PM
You know my stance, Keld. Nightsticks are fine, as long as you're not doing something broken with them. Since the only use I can think of involves DMM or Devotion Feats, and only one thing of those two is broken, and you're not using that one... I think you're good. :smallcool:

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 12:32 PM
There are a LOT of things that use TU attempts. Divine Metamagic is one of probably 2 dozen [Divine] feats printed. Theres also Divine Might, Divine Shield, Divine Vigor, Divine Resistance, the one that aligns all your allies weapons (Sacred Weapon?), and a couple others...just in Complete Warrior. I know Races of Stone has a couple more, and thats not even going into CDivine, CChampion, and PHBII. Oh, and Divine Deficance in FCII.

Then there's also Ordained Champion's smite, the Spontaneous Domain feat in CDivine, Eldritch Disciple's Healing Blast feature, several RKV powers (non-cheesy if you limit Divine Impetus to 1/rd, Divine Recovery and the rest of the abilities are fine), and a couple of items that you can spend TU attempts on to power.

Even DMM isn't THAT cheesy. DMM Persist IS, but DMM Quicken is pretty balanced in that it takes a TON of TU attempts and still chews up your swift actions and is only viable for 1-2 encounters per day. DMM Reach is also commonly branded as a non-cheesy way to buff your allies with touch spells from the back row, great for non-Zilla Cloistered Clerics, although Divine Ward is more efficient if you are only casting heals.

Just sayin. There ARE more than 2 things to use TU for, MOST of which aren't cheesy. :smallcool:

Private-Prinny
2010-07-06, 12:48 PM
I have a (1) Nightstick down on my suggested equipment list, but no Divine Metamagic. Nightsticks tend to have a rather nasty connotation to them. Its very helpful, but not vital to the build. I hope this isn't gonna hurt me score, will it? :smallcool:

EDIT: Even though I've submitted my entry, I'm still not on the list of contestants. Did you get my PM Private-Prinny?

I did, I just haven't updated the list yet. I've been meaning to do that.

arguskos
2010-07-06, 02:20 PM
Just sayin. There ARE more than 2 things to use TU for, MOST of which aren't cheesy. :smallcool:
See how almost ALL of those are divine-based? See how GSA is an arcane-PrC? I just ignored all the ones of irrelevance, which is pretty much all of them. :smalltongue:

Believe me, I've used most of the possible options before. They rock, btws. :smallwink:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-06, 06:15 PM
*whistles innocently*

true_shinken
2010-07-06, 08:13 PM
Wait, so a Necropolitan GSA wouldn't become a construct?

Craaazy.
I guess it would, really. Savage Species only mentions templates - GSA capstone is not a template.

woodenbandman
2010-07-06, 09:53 PM
I could compete in this.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-06, 10:05 PM
I could compete in this.

You'd better get cracking, then. The deadline is three days away and I already have six submissions.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-06, 10:16 PM
I could compete in this.
Double dog dare you.

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 11:00 PM
Tribble's got his evil face on...I do believe the gauntlet has been thrown!

Akal Saris
2010-07-06, 11:47 PM
Tribble's got his evil face on...I do believe the gauntlet has been thrown!

Frankly it reminds me of a Ghost pokemon :smalltongue:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-07, 10:30 AM
Haha, had to look up what one looks like, but you're right, it sort of does.

Man... I'm not so much interested in the judging as I am to see what the next theme will be so I can begin work on the next. I'm such a writing junkie.

Cieyrin
2010-07-07, 11:00 AM
I cast my vote for the next Iron Chef being Tactical Soldier. :smalltongue:

Amphetryon
2010-07-07, 11:03 AM
I cast my vote for the next Iron Chef being Tactical Soldier. :smalltongue:

Prinny's already got my vote for what the next Iron Chef should be. Hint: Your wife is a big hippo!

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-07, 11:05 AM
I cast my vote for the next Iron Chef being Tactical Soldier. :smalltongue:
Meh, I wanna see the suggestions I sent Prinny last time.

Flavorful but just plain bad. Kinda like the GSA, which I had a fantastic time with.

Ingus
2010-07-07, 12:42 PM
I can only suggest "shoeless sexy god of war" :smallbiggrin:

Amphetryon
2010-07-07, 02:53 PM
I can only suggest "shoeless sexy god of war" :smallbiggrin:

I would be surprised if that's an actual PrC. :smallwink:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-07, 03:02 PM
I would be surprised if that's an actual PrC. :smallwink:
I'm pretty sure I recall someone doing it on the Homebrew forums. Can't recall details however.

Amphetryon
2010-07-08, 10:35 AM
So, tomorrow's the reveal? If Prinny had 6 entries two days ago, the judges could be looking at a long process...

Private-Prinny
2010-07-08, 10:37 AM
So, tomorrow's the reveal? If Prinny had 6 entries two days ago, the judges could be looking at a long process...

Not so much. I still have the same six entries. Then again, I could get a last second flood.

Edit: We also have 2 more judging chairs open, if anyone's interested.

Akal Saris
2010-07-08, 02:33 PM
I'll switch over to judging then. I have the character mostly finished but just wasn't very satisfied with her.

Amphetryon
2010-07-08, 02:38 PM
I'll switch over to judging then. I have the character mostly finished but just wasn't very satisfied with her.

...And all the entrants just felt their odds of winning go up by 50%. :smallwink:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-08, 02:46 PM
...And all the entrants just felt their odds of winning go up by 50%. :smallwink:
Pffftt, Akal, sit your butt down and enter that or we'll have words!

Two other judges. Show yourselves. Now.

*bares teeth*

arguskos
2010-07-08, 02:54 PM
I'll switch over to judging then. I have the character mostly finished but just wasn't very satisfied with her.
...BOO! BOOO! Enter!


...And all the entrants just felt their odds of winning go up by 50%. :smallwink:
Yeah really. I was all set to just give Akal the win too... :smalltongue:


Pffftt, Akal, sit your butt down and enter that or we'll have words!

Two other judges. Show yourselves. Now.

*bares teeth*
Awwwwwww soooo cuuuuuuuute...... *hugs*

Also, yay multiquote!

the humanity
2010-07-08, 03:17 PM
I can judge if you want. probably won't be the most excellent at it... but I will if nobody else wants to.

and Akal, do it anyways. for honor!

Akal Saris
2010-07-08, 04:13 PM
Heh...alright, I'll stay in it then. Thanks for the encouragement :smalltongue:

Amphetryon
2010-07-08, 04:16 PM
Heh...alright, I'll stay in it then. Thanks for the encouragement :smalltongue:HOORAY!

More high quality competitors are always welcome!
Aw, shucks.

true_shinken
2010-07-08, 05:22 PM
I can't quite finish my build and be satisfied with it. I'll switch to judge, just like Akal was going to.
Btw, if finished it would be something like this:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/fairytail/images/8/85/GazilleDragonSlayer.jpg
Unfortunatelly, without the 15 CL in 10 levels, GSA just does not work for what I wanted.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-08, 05:35 PM
Well, it looks like we have all the judges' seats filled.

And true_shinken, please use a spoiler. Window stretching is not fun.

true_shinken
2010-07-08, 05:45 PM
Well, it looks like we have all the judges' seats filled.

And true_shinken, please use a spoiler. Window stretching is not fun.

Sorry. Edited that.

Akal Saris
2010-07-08, 05:50 PM
Wait, it DOES give the cl boost to the main one as well, doesn't it? So actual caster level +5, but effective caster level +15, correct?

Keld Denar
2010-07-08, 06:00 PM
No. I think the interpretation everyone is going with is that it gives you a +1 spellcaster boost on even levels, and +1 CL on the odd level boosts in between.

So, if you were a 5th level wizard to start with, and you had all 10 levels, you'd cast spells as a 10th level wizard, with the CL of a 15th level wizard (for determining things like duration, spell penetration, dice, etc).

At least thats the interpretation I'm going with. If not, well, my build just got a whole lot more powerful...

Nerdanel
2010-07-08, 06:01 PM
Since it's already Friday on my time zone it's probably not a good idea to start writing an entry now that I finally have time. Even though in this contest I actually had access to the text of the secret ingredient, my entry probably wouldn't have been that great anyway.

It'll be interesting to see how many people will latch onto the things I noticed. Proper understanding of the problem really enhances the enjoyment of seeing what solutions other people propose. I did come up with a decentish maybe-original build centered around Green Star Adept, although the underpoweredness factor seemed unavoidable...

true_shinken
2010-07-08, 06:20 PM
Wait, it DOES give the cl boost to the main one as well, doesn't it? So actual caster level +5, but effective caster level +15, correct?

Nope. Prinny is going by the example, meaning actual caster level +5, effective caster level +10.
The +15 one is the only reading I think gives GSA a bit of actual powergaming value.

Cieyrin
2010-07-08, 06:28 PM
Prinny's already got my vote for what the next Iron Chef should be. Hint: Your wife is a big hippo!

If that's what I think it is, I would totally craft an entry.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-08, 06:31 PM
Wait, it DOES give the cl boost to the main one as well, doesn't it? So actual caster level +5, but effective caster level +15, correct?

No. Read this part again.


For example, a 5th-level wizard/4th-level Green Star adept’s caster level would be 9th, due to this ability, but he would only have access to 4th-level spells (5th-level wizard plus two arcane spellcasting class levels from being a 4th-level Green Star adept).

Yes, the character presented is illegal, but the example given is part of the text for the ability, and is therefore RAW. It's a very confusing ability, and I probably should've used the exact quote earlier.

Keld Denar
2010-07-08, 06:48 PM
Ok, yay! I did it right!

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-08, 07:05 PM
Y'all are giving my dyslexia hernias. I did what it said, so I'm hoping it was right.

WinWin
2010-07-09, 04:02 AM
My revision has been entered. Good luck everyone.

Ingus
2010-07-09, 04:36 AM
Oh damn, if it goes like usual, there will be maybe other four entries, to a total of 11... Oh well... oh well...
It would be funny to judge.

WinWin
2010-07-09, 05:00 AM
I can help out and be a judge for IC 8 if needed.

Ajadea
2010-07-09, 05:01 AM
Done with my entry and it has been submitted. Can't wait to see all the cool builds!

Amphetryon
2010-07-09, 10:14 AM
Build is in.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-09, 10:41 AM
Sorry, I'm dropping out. I spotted a critical error in reading some class features, which redefined my build a bit too much. At this point, restructuring and editing is just too much effort. >.<

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-09, 01:09 PM
Sorry, I'm dropping out. I spotted a critical error in reading some class features, which redefined my build a bit too much. At this point, restructuring and editing is just too much effort. >.<
What were you attempting?

Akal Saris
2010-07-09, 02:40 PM
No. Read this part again.



Yes, the character presented is illegal, but the example given is part of the text for the ability, and is therefore RAW. It's a very confusing ability, and I probably should've used the exact quote earlier.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-09, 04:26 PM
What were you attempting?
Caution, concept spoiler

Illumian (Aeshkrau) Bard3/Spellthief3/GSA4/SubCh2/Unseen Seer 2/GSA 6 was the original build. Pump Strength, to get bonus spells from Aeshkrau and improve melee presence. Qualify for sublime chord using spellthief Steal Spell, and/or drakehelms with Versatile Spellcaster. From there, persist caster-level uncapped and relevant buffs using Practical Metamagic and your wealth of high level slots, like Cloud of Knives, Hunter's Eye (from Unseen Seer), etc. Use Drakehelms to get spells that would otherwise cost you a sublime chord slot (Cloud of Knives, Steeldance) The trick is in interaction between Master Spellthief and Sublime Chord, which results in a caster level of 45 at the 20'th level of the build. This makes an excellent skillmonkey as well, with Improvisation from Bard levels. From there, you could strip spells and buffs with impunity, having 3 free attacks per round and 8'th level spells (Arcane Spellsurge, if you wanted to hit more in melee)

After I realized that Steal Spell Effect didn't work if you weren't straight spellthief, though, I figured the other two levels of spellthief redundant, so perhaps I should change the build, to perhaps Bard6/Spellthief1/GSA3/SubCh2/Unseen Seer 2/GSA 6, which also had a less dicey SubCh entry, but at that point, the amount of rewriting and revision, since I just noticed it this morning, was far too much.

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 04:55 PM
Caution, concept spoiler
Dude, I was thinking among the same lines.
My idea used Spellthief\Duskblade into Knight of the Weave though, going for greater BAB

Amphetryon
2010-07-09, 06:09 PM
We're getting down to the wire, ladies and gents.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 06:12 PM
We're getting down to the wire, ladies and gents.

I know. I only have 2 hours to think of witty puns.

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 07:59 PM
I know. I only have 2 hours to think of witty puns.

2 hours? Don't troture us, Prinny! Give us them builds! :)

Akal Saris
2010-07-09, 08:24 PM
Whew, submission is in, and I'm exhausted! :smalltongue:

Commenting on builds:
Wow, my first build idea was using Aeshkrau too actually! Very different classes though.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:33 PM
And now it's time for the Big RevealTM! I apologize to our judges, because the length keeps on growing with our entries. We have 8 builds for this competition, two of which take up two posts each (I am so, so sorry)! Please don't post until I confirm that all of the builds are posted.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:34 PM
Jealousy makes the Suel Green.
I am a rock, I am an island
And a rock feels no pain, and an island never cries
- Simon and Garfunkle

Story
Byerek Runeweaver loved stones as a child. He’d always pick up rocks, stare at them for hours trying to divine their hidden secrets, before smashing them open to find out. He loved their rigid unyieldingness, as well as their stoic silence (unless you knew how to read the whorls and patterns on the surface). Being a typical illumian, Byerek dabbled in various fields, seeking a way to combine his growing interests in ancient magics with the strength of stone. Eventually, after breaking enough rocks, Byerek discovered a rock he couldn’t break. Starmetal was too dense. Awed, Byerek determined that it was his life’s goal to shape his body, mind, and beliefs into a substance as rigid and unyielding as starmetal.

Byerek Runeweaver
Race: AeshKrau Illumian
Levels: Duskblade2/Paladin4/SuelArcanamach1/GreenStarAdept2/AbjurantChamp5/GreenStarAdept+6
Stats
32 PB Starting Stats
Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 9
Final Stats (with items)
Str: 36 (+4 Tome, +6 Item)
Dex: 12
Con: 24 (+6 Bite of the Wereboar)
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 15 (+6 item)
Level breakdown
{table=header]ECL|Class|Feats
1|Duskblade1|Power Attack
2|Duskblade2|Combat Casting (B)
3|Paladin1|Iron Will
4|Paladin2|
5|Paladin3|
6|Paladin4|Law Devotion
7|Suel Arcanamach1|
8| Abjurant Champion 1|
9| Abjurant Champion 2|Shape Soulmeld: Displacer Mantle
10|Green Star Adept1|
11|Green Star Adept 2|
12|Abjurant Champion3|Open Lesser Chakra: Shoulder
13| Abjurant Champion 4|
14| Abjurant Champion |
15|Green Star Adept3|Minor Shapeshift
16|Green Star Adept4|
17|Green Star Adept5|
18|Green Star Adept6|INA: Slam
19|Green Star Adept7|
20|Green Star Adept8|[/table]
Skills by level
Using Cityscape to swap Ride for Tumble for Pally levels
1st: Know:Eng2, Know:Geo2, Jump4 , Spellcraft4 (12 total)
2nd: Decipher Script2, Spellcraft5 (3 total)
3rd: Conc3 (3 total)
4th: Conc4, Tumble2 (3 total)
5th: Tumble5, (3 total)
6th: Conc5, Know:Hist1 (3 total, Hist is CC)
7th: Know:Hist2, Know:Arc4 (5 total)
8th: Know:Arc7 (3 total)
9th: Know:Arc8, Conc7 (3 total)
10th: Conc10 (3 total)
11th: Conc13 (3 total)
12th: Conc14, Jump5 (3 total, Jump is CC)
13th: Conc15, Tumble6 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
14th: Conc16, Tumble7 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
15th: Conc17, Tumble8 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
16th: Conc18, Tumble9 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
17th: Conc19, Tumble10 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
18th: Conc20, Tumble11 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
19th: Conc21, Tumble12 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
20th: Conc22, Tumble13 (3 total, Tumble is CC)
Spells known by level

1st: Ray of Enfeeblement, Resist Energy
2nd: Obscuring Mist
3rd:
4th:
5th:
6th:
7th: Shield
8th: Enlarge Person, Wraithstrike
9th: Invisibility
10th:
11th: Greater Mighty Wallop
12th: Nerveskitter, Fly
13th: Heart of Air, Greater Mirror Image
14th: Trollshape
15th:
16th: Ray of Clumsiness, Heart of Water, Bite of the Wereboar
17th:
18th: Scintillating Scales, Lightning Leap
19th:
20th: Heart of Earth
Spells per day at 20: 0th:4, 1st:15, 2nd:7, 3rd:6, 4th:6, 5th:5, with Versatile Spellcaster to trade up slots.
Description of synergy
Suel Arcanamach, Abjurant Champion, and Green Star Adept actually synergize very well . All 3 require Combat Casting, which Duskblade gives as a bonus feat. Duskblade also gives nearly all of the caster skills required for Suel Arcanamach and Green Star Adept. Suel Arcanamach is normally Cha based casting, but AeshKrau illumian changes the source of bonus spells to Str. Since the Suel spells I picked don’t have saving throws with them, the inherent lack of Cha isn’t a problem. Eventually, the character will have to pick up a +Cha item in order to meet the 10+ Spell Level minimum to cast his spells, but he won’t need a +2 item till level 7, a +4 item till level 8, and a +6 item till level 13. In the mean time, the character will be progressing his Str through level/4 bumps, items, tomes, and the GSA’s Starmetal Rigor (+4 bonus) ability for a final Str score of 36 at ECL20 which grants 4 extra 1st level slots, and 3 extra 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level slots, making casting effectively Str SAD. Since Suel Arcanamach only has 10 spellcaster levels and this build gets 10/10 Spellcaster levels, it also doesn’t lose any of its casting potential from the suckatude that is Green Star Adept.

Also, given the way caster levels stack, the character’s buffs will be virtually undispellable. When Abjurant Champion’s Martial Arcanist ability kicks in at ECL14, the Suel’s caster level will be set equal to his BAB. At that point, only 2 points of BAB will be missing, so his CL will be 12 (which Illumian Krau sigil raises to 14, equal to ECL). Then we apply GSA’s +1 CL from 1st level for a CL of 15 at ECL14m and THEN we apply Suel’s Tenacious Spells ability for a +6 bonus to CL to resist dispels. At ECL14, the Suel caster will have a CL of 21 to resist dispels, a DC 32 CL check for enemy dispellers. This is WAY out of the reach of a simple Dispel Magic, and even a like leveled enemy caster would need an 18+ on a d20 roll to dispel your buffs. Tack on a Ring of Enduring Arcana for another +4 CL vs dispels and an ECL16 mage with GDM will only get you on a natural 20, assuming no other CL bumps for the dispeller.
Level breaks
ECL1-6 is pretty standard. Walk up to things, hit them with your weapon of choice. You have a few of Duskblade spells with a CL of 3 and bonus spells based on Str (thanks to AeshKrau sigil), but your primary tactic is bashing stuff. Law Devotion also helps you in boss type fights, although you’ll only have enough TU attempts to use it once per day (unless you get the +2 Cha item you need for ECL7 early).

ECL7 gets your first Suel level. You probably won’t cast shield much at this point, given that it’s a standard action. Relax; it’ll get better VERY shortly. This is probably the weakest level in the build.

ECL8, assuming you have your +4 Cha item by this point, gets fun with Wraithstrike. You have 7/8 BAB, and a Str focus, meaning your can PA with the best of them. You’ll only have 2 or so per day from your Str mod, and you can always Versatile Spellcaster your Duskblade spells for more, so when you pull them out, you’ll swing for the fences. You also have Enlarge Person, a nice size buff that’ll get even better in a couple levels.

ECL9, Swiftcasting kicks in, making Shield a swift action. Your shield also protects you with a +6 bonus, a notable increase to your survivability.

ECL11, you gain your Slam attack, just in time to learn Greater Mighty Wallop. This is the first MAJOR power break. Cast GMWallop on your bludgeoning 2hander and on your slam. You’ll only have the CL atm to boost by 1 size, but that’s still a nice boost. Your greatclub will be bumped to 3d8, and your slam will be 2d6 when Enlarged. GMWallop lasts for a decently long time, but it might be worthwhile at this point to pick up a Lesser MM Rod of Extend. It should also be noted that the slam gains 1.5x your Str bonus, like a 2handed weapon. It won’t get 2:1 PA, but this is still an impressive feature considering how focused on improving your Str you will be.

ECL12, the pickup of Open Lesser Chakra opens your Shoulder Chakra, allowing you to bind Displacer Mantle there for a permanent 20% miss chance at all times. You are starting to get REALLY hard to hit.

ECL13, you gain Greater Mirror Image, one of the BEST defensive buffs for ANYONE. As long as your foe doesn’t have True Seeing, your chances to get hit go WAY down. This, combined with the Blur effect at ECL12 means that most foes won’t even find your AC, which will be decently formidable due to your growing Natural Armor and Abjurant Armor special abilities.

ECL14, this is the 2nd major power break. Martial Arcanist kicks in. Your CL is now 14 for your Suel spells. GMWallop skips up to 3 size category increases, which with Enlarge Person sets your Greatclub damage to 6d8 and your slam damage up to 4d6. You are now also undispellable except by VERY dedicated casters. HUGE level.

ECL15, you gain the Minor Shapeshift feat. This, combined with knowledge of Trollshape (less cheesy than Polymorph) means you get a pool of Temp HP equal to your level at nearly all times. Enemies who get through your Blur and your GMI and your decent AC have their damage severely reduced thanks to your still growing DR and this pool of temp HP. If you get hit in combat, you can spent a swift action to refresh this pool of temp HP, effectively erasing a good portion of damage that manages to evade your strong defenses.

ECL16, your offense increases. You gain Bite of the Wereboar, adding another Bludgeoning type natural weapon to your arsenal. Your CL is also be high enough to gain another bump from GMWallop, making your Greatclub move up to 8d8, your slam up to 6d6, and your bite up to 8d6.

ECL18, your touch AC is now WAY too high. A casting of Scintillating Scales turns the 8 NA from Bite of the Wereboar and the 4 NA from GSA into 12 points of Deflection bonus. This, plus the 9 points from the Shield spell gives you a touch AC of 31 at the least. Also, GMWallop caps at this point, thanks to your GSA level bumps and you pick up INA for your Slam. Greatclub is now 12d8, slam is 12d6, and bite is 12d6.

ECL20, more of the same. You gain your last spells and abilities. Your CL is now 17 (from BAB) +2 from Illumian Krau sigil, +4 from GSA for a base CL of 23. Your spell tenacity and Ring of Enduring Arcana increase this by another 10, making for a DC 44 to dispel your magic. That’s well out of the realm of most people casting Greater Dispel Magic, as it caps at CL20. Even someone with an augmented chance to dispel (10 Master Abjurer levels, Inquisition domain power, and a Dispelling Chord) will still need an 11+ on a d20 to touch your spells.

Typical gear at 20

+1 Spellstoring Collision Wounding Holy Greatclub – 128,000g
+5 Thistledown Mithril Chain Shirt with Soulfire – 81,000g
+6 Cha cloak – 36,000g
+6 Str belt – 36,000g
+5 Vest of Resistance – 25,000g
Boots of Speed – 12,000g
Manual of Gainful Exercise +4 – 110,000g
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 – 50,000g
Ring of Enduring Arcana – 6,000g
Nightstick – 10,000g to get to 4 uses of Law Devotion per day
Armbands of Might – 4,100g
Circlet of Rapid Casting – 15,000g
That’s only 513,100g, just under 3/4 WBL. Only items that are really critical to the build are the +Cha item to be able to cast spells, and the +Str items to get more spells, and possibly the Soulfire shirt to shore up that weakness. Thus, wealth is customizable to taste.
Combat breakdown at 20
Long duration buffs running: Bite of the Wereboar, Heart of Air, Heart of Water, Heart of Earth, and GMWallop x3 on Greatclub, Bite, and Slam. Opening round of combat typically starts with a swift Shield followed by Enlarge Person and an immediate Greater Mirror Image. 2nd round of combat is either a full attack, Lightning Leaping into a location to attack, or positioning himself into a defensive position to shield his allies. Subsequent rounds will usually see him activating Law Devotion for a defensive or offensive buff, using Minor Shapeshift to refresh lost temp HP, or casting Wraithstrike, all the while full attacking with 4x club attacks + slam and bite.

BAB17 +14 from Str +7 Law Devotion +1 Haste -1 Size +5 Greater Magic Weapon
Greatclub at +43/+43/+38/+33/+28 for 12d8+31 (avg 85 per hit)
Slam at +38 for 12d6+21 (avg 31)
Bite at +38 for 12d6+21 (avg 31)
For reference, that’s ~441 damage per round vs an AC35 Tarrasque

That’s without a Wraithstrike Power Attack. A full PA attack routine would be:
Greatclub at +26/+26/+21/+16/+11 for 12d8+55 (avg 121 per hit)
Slam at +21 for 12d6+38 (avg 51)
Bite at +21 for 12d6+38 (avg 51)
For reference, that’s ~663 damage per round vs a touch AC5 Tarrasque

Other vitals include225 HP at 20 (assuming average HP), base saves of Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +16 with a +2 to all from Divine Grace and another +5 from the Vest for final saves of Fort +17, Ref +13, Will +23 with a floating +6 on all saves vs poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects and outright immunity to inhaled poisons, drowning, suffocation, sleep, and fatigue effects. Final AC would be 10 + 9 Armor + 16 Natural Armor + 9 Shield = 44 , with another +7 available from defensive Law Devotion, and with a 31 Touch AC with undispellable Scintillating Scales.
Summary
End result is a VERY resilient tank that can also dish out enough damage to be a threat while not being SO cheesy that it can 1shot deities. Covers MOST of the main melee weaknesses with his gish spells and innate abilities. He provides almost all of his own buffs, including: flight 70, fortification, on demand Freedom of Movement, DR, renewable temp HP, miss chance, short range teleport, touch attacks on demand, and protection from Dispels. Pretty standard through level 6, with real strength gained at 8, 11, and 14 as class abilities start to kick in. Not dependant on charging. Only real drawback is that your skills will be bad based on the requirements to qualify for Suel and GSA.
Citations:
PHBII: Duskblade
Complete Arcane: Green Star Adept, Suel Arcanamach
Complete Mage: Abjurant Champion, Heart of Air, Water, and Earth, Minor Shapeshift, Greater Mirror Image, Lightning Leap, Ring of Enduring Arcana
Complete Champion: Law Devotion
Races of Destiny: Illumian, AeshKrau sigil
Races of the Dragon: Greater Mighty Wallop, Versatile Spellcaster
Magic of Incarnum: Shape Soulmeld, Open Lesser Chakra, Displacer Mantle
Spell Compendium: Wraithstrike, Nerveskitter, Trollshape, Ray of Clumsiness, Bite of the Wereboar, Scintillating Scales
Cityscape Web Enhancement: Ride for Tumble skill swap
Magic Item Compendium: Circlet of Rapid Casting, Armbands of Might, Collision Enchantment
Book of Exalted Deeds: Soulfire Enchantment

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:35 PM
When you wish upon a... halfling?


Little Starry*Eyes
http://i46.tinypic.com/dwvzaf.jpg
Halfling Were-Chordevoc (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050204a&page=5) 2, Bard 4, Ranger 1, Green Star Adept 10, Saint 2, Keeper of the Cerulean Sign 1


The blackness above spun, the tiny pinpricks of light whirling into one. A voice screamed into the night and then fell silent. A form fell lifeless to the ground... followed by intense laughter all around.

"Get up, get up, it's my turn!" a voice cried.

The hobbledehoy child opened her eyes and the sky still turned from her dance.

"Unghhh unghhh...!" she moaned in exaggeration, and plopped back down in the grass, her tongue rolling out and her eyes crossed.

She then OOFED as one of her sisters fell on her, too dizzy to stand up anymore. Then a third. With a delighted shriek the children wrestled, unable to build up the coordination to actually stand.

It was a game they played, standing up and focusing on a star while they spun in place. A lantern or a flarestick was then be lit up, and the sudden light would make them fall. It was a game for little ones, and she was the youngest of fifteen brothers and sisters. They'd called her Starry-Eyes since she was born because of the bright spark that was always in them. She had been born early on the Eve of the Green, the night the sky had fallen, in the back of a wagon as the town had fled. It seemed she was destined to always be small, for though today was her eleventh birthday she could have been taken for a 5 year old, but she was as tough and strong as any of her other rambunctious siblings.

"Lightening bugs!" one shouted in the distance.

"Fireflies!" another retorted.

"Starwings!" the littlest one cried, making up the name on the spot, and tumbled over her brother to gain her feet.

Leaping, squealing, arguing and swooping, the hoard of halflings spread across the field. The warm late-spring breezes wafted the scent of honeysuckle through the air, and a distant lake glinted with the crescent moon as they chased after the flashing insects.

Starry-Eyes was in a joyous chase when her foot struck something unyielding and she flipped over on her back. So surprised was she she didn't notice her stubbed toe, for turning and looking back there was a strange creature in the grass. It looked a little like a frog carved of stone, except it sat like a pony, and had a triangle eye in the middle of its face. She turned on her belly and poked it. The skin was tough, like leathery brick, but it definitely flexed. Enchanted, she tried to pick it up, but despite being no larger than a cat it seemed to weigh a ton.

As she tugged on the creature in vain the sound like a steam-kettle whistling, but multiplied a thousand fold, blared across the field, making every child freeze in their tracks and look up. A nightwhistler, or chorvedoc as Papa called it, wheeled overhead. Though only eleven, Starry-Eyes knew something was wrong. It didn't act right, and no nightwhistler was that loud! As the thought came, so the creature swooped at one of her older brothers. He ducked, but the bird turned on a wingtip right around. He batted at the bird and it shrieked again.

"RUN!" it cried, and the children screamed without knowing why, except chorvedoc's didn't talk! They scattered in random directions, and the nightwhistler wheeled quickly, trying to heard them to the woods.

Starry-Eyes however stood in place, too frightened to move or cry. Out on the lake, dark shapes burst out of the waters and took to wing. They glinted green in the moonlight as they dived for the panicked children. Their feet were like tentacles, with webs between, that wrapped around and enveloped one of the scattering forms. With hardly any effort it shot off into the sky straight up and disappeared. The nightwhistler then seemed to grow in mid-air, becoming like a man, but with feathers and a mouth-like beak. It sped towards another kidnapper, harassing it mercilessly, but the creature struck it with a wing and the birdman tumbled to the ground, spreading its wings only just in time to miss the field floor. One by one they were picked off and finally one spotted Starry-Eyes. She stood frozen as the huge creature descended for her. It was halfling-shaped, but with a neckless head even smaller than hers, dominated by two huge eyes and a mouth that seemed to grin at her. It's wings were as a bat's, but had hundreds of clawed tentacles. Feeling paralyzed she could only watch. She closed her eyes when she was whisked off her feet. Opening them she expected to see the horrible greenish-skin, but instead there were feathers. The manbird cradled her in his arms, and the monster was right behind, but as they reached the thick, interlacing canopy of the woods it veered off. It kept flying until the lights of a cottage was seen. There Starry-Eyes and the manbird settled. It set her down, and breathed heavily, looking around warily.

"Follow the trail little one, it'll take you to the village." he instructed her. The little one looked into the dark woods with misgivings but nodded tearfully. She turned to it and found the strange frog thing squatting.

"Need to run, toady!" she said to it and made shooing motions.

"Wha..." the birdman said, peering around her, and his eyes went wide.

The creature slowly lifted, as if to spring.

"NO!" he screamed, and shoved the girl to the side as the frog-creature leaped. It seemed to pass right into the birdman's body. He arched his back as expressions and emotions flashed across his face. He cried like a hawk and gibbered like a lunatic as he twitched. A triangular eye then appeared on his forehead as he howled one final time, and then lay still. Starry Eyes slowly approached, and reached out to touch the triangle in confusion. The birdman lashed out, gashing her in the elbow with his beak and she jumped back with a scream. Holding her bleeding arm, she sprinted down the trail, not seeing behind her the form of the birdman vanish.

She wasn't sure when she made it back, only that for the next few days she suffered one endless period of nightmares filled with whirling stars, flashes of green light and her sisters and brothers flying. Her only lucid moments was that of sitting up gasping with the heat of fever and her mother laying her back down with calm words. The next time she awoke she was certain she was still dreaming. She was at the top of an old apple tree by the lake, and somehow she was gripping the upper branches with her toes, which were long and scaly. Looking at her arms, she saw were covered in a pretty white down. For some reason this struck her as hilarious and she giggled, but all that came out was a warble. Up in the sky the moon hung full, and she found she could finally see it. She'd always seen it before, but now she could see lines like rivers and mountains and pits. The stars too were brighter, and they had colors she had never imagined. Her smell too... something nearby was fantastic. Looking below she saw an apple so green it almost glowed. She bent down and pecked it, marveling at the flavor. When she was done she peered around and leaped up fearlessly. She didn't know she'd known how to fly, but this was like a dream come true.

In the distance she saw the lights of torches and lanterns in the forest that separated the fields from the village. Her keen ears picked up the called of 'Starry Eyes!' and she dived down. She didn't want to be a bird any more, she wanted her momma! Thus the search party found the little girl running towards them and leaped up into her mother's arms.

"I flew... I flew!" she murmured into her skirts as she was carried back.


It was both a painful and joy-filled life that Starry-Eyes lived as she grew into a young woman. The loss of all her brothers and sisters hit her hard once she realized they weren't coming back. From fourteen playmates to herself... the house has never seemed so empty, even when the others had gone out to play. None knew what had happened on the day of her 11th birthday, and they put her story off to the start of the fever that had gripped her. They sent out search parties, but no trace could be found. They even managed to gather the bravest to paddle about the lake where the star had fallen in hopes of finding some sign, but there was none. The pain eventually lessened, but the dreams continued. Every full moon she would disappear from her room, and her parents would scold and then clutch her, berating her for her foolishness. They had lost all their other children, how can we bear to lose you they'd ask. After the first few times they finally locked her in her room. That night they opened the door to find a screaming chordevoc wheeling around the room, but no Starry-Eyes. They brought in the village witch and confirmed it was there daughter. She had been chosen by Yondalla the witch proclaimed, to guard their village. Since then the others of the village held her somewhat in awe. Friends were pushed on her in hope they would attracted the blessing of the Goddess, but Starry-Eyes could see it in them that they didn't wish to come at first. Not this strange girl who wouldn't even awake til the evening and would only eat fruit and raw meat. As they came to know her however even the most sullen hobbledehoy couldn't help but be infected by her mischievous good nature and wild, playful look in her eye. Still, they could not be with her all night, so she spent most of her time in flight, dancing and singing as if she were ten years old again. Other times she'd fly to the top of the wonderful apple tree, watching the stars. She came to notice their spin and play and wondered at it. It was around that time she suddenly became aware of a presence behind her. She became her birdwoman form and wheeled down, just in time to see someone duck behind the trunk. Moving quick, she sped around came face to face with a man her size. He was green and wore a spiny armor.

"Why are you watching me!" she demanded.

The man bowed and smiled grimly.

"I've watched you for many a year little Starry Eyes." he replied in a strong, deep voice that she found herself liking. "You are more special than you know. I have been your guardian since my friend died saving you."

"You mean, that happened? It wasn't the fever!" she cried, the pinch of uncertainty she'd carried all these years giving way to relief, but then anger and horror. "Where are my brothers and sisters?"

"I do not know, but if you will see them again I have doubts. There is evil in that lake. None of my kind come within a league of here, for those horrors are not of this world. They rest there til the stars are right, the light is green, and only then may they leave the lake. The chip off the star that fell paralyzes them except for the week of the coming of Alhazarde, then it forgets them, and only has eyes for it's mistress above. Then they may escape, a few at a time. Until then, they must live in the scum and the water-filled caves below in hiding."

"I'm not going to let them come again. We have to go get them!"

"Their ways are not your ways, little one! They are not here as you are. You might find them, and kill them, but then they would return, you having only killed a ghost. Or maybe they will be untouchable and unseen, or only found in dreams."

Starry Eye's namesakes widened and she whispered, "I have seen them there!"

The green man nodded, "Yes, you have. But you still don't know how to look. Let me show you. I am Warden the Thorn."

When the sun was gone, and all asleep, Warden would come out of his hiding and they would discuss the stars and dreams. As he taught her of past doings and pointed out their dance, she noticed that things seemed to happen at special times of the year, and could predict them. It was like the stars were talking to her. As well, many of her dreams would come true, or dreams of others would paint her a picture that no others seemed to understand. She would have them meet her at night, with Warden well hidden and as they regaled her she would take flight; wheeling above, letting the stars whirl as she did when she was young, and as often as not a clear knowledge would come to her.

Yet this was only beginning...

Level 5

Halfling Were-Chorvedoc 2, Bard 3

Small Humanoid (shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 3d6 + 1d8 HD (14 hp or 18 Animal/Hybrid)
Initiative: +1 (+5 hybrid)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); Animal/Hybrid form: Fly 70 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 17 (+3 armor, +1 dex, +2 natural, +1 size), touch 12, flat-footed 16; Hybrid 23 (+3 armor, +5 dex, +4 natural, +1 size), touch 16, flat-footed 18; Animal 21 (+5 dex, +4 natural, +2 size), touch 17, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-1
Attack:
Animal - Talons +9 melee (1d3+2)
Halfling - +1 War Sling of Distance +7 ranged (1d6+3/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - Claw +5 melee (1d3+2)
Full Attack:
Animal - Talons +9 melee (1d3+2)
Halfling - +1 War Sling of Distance +7 ranged (1d6+3/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - 2 Claws +5 melee (1d3+2) and bite +0 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (2-1/2 ft./0 ft. animal form)
Special Attacks: Fascinate
Special Qualities: Bardic music 3/day, bardic knowledge, blindsense 60 ft., countersong, damage reduction 5/adamantine or silver, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +8; (Hybrid) Fort +5, Ref +11, Will +9
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 12 (20 hybrid), Con 10 (12 hybrid), Int 10, Wis 14 (16 hybrid), Cha 16
Skills: Climb +4, Decipher Script +2, Hide +9 (+13 hybrid) (+17 animal), Jump +4, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (the planes) +6, Listen +8 (+9 hybrid), Move Silently +3 (+7 hybrid), Perform (dance) +8, Perform (sing) +4, Profession (astrologer) +8 (+9 hybrid), Spot +10 (+11 hybrid)
Feats: Dreamtelling, Flyby Attack(WereB), Nymph's Kiss, Iron Will(WereB), Weapon Finesse(WereB)
Traits: Quick
Challenge Rating: 6
Possessions: +1 war sling of distance, masterwork leafweave studded armor
Alignment: Neutral Good
Level Adjustment: +2

Languages Known: Common and Halfling

Bard Spells: Caster level 3rd. (Spells per day: (3/2); Save DC 13 + spell level):
0 - Dancing Lights, Know Direction, Message, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Songbird
1st - Feather Fall, Guiding Light, Swift Expeditious Retreat

Blindsense (Ex): Starry-Eyes notices and locates creatures within 60 feet. Opponents still have total concealment against her.

Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): In any form, Starry-Eyes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire birds. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as “friend,” “foe,” “flee,” and “attack.”




http://i45.tinypic.com/n2lq10.jpg


"THIS WAY!" Starry-Eyes shrieked, gliding slowly over the ground to sniff the prints. With a bright flare of blue-green light she disappeared into the distance, a faintly luminous tail trailing behind her. It was her 21st birthday today, 10 years to the day since her brothers and sisters had been taken into the beyond. She had learned and experience much in the year since she had met Warden.

A previous night some 8 months ago she had been snacking on one of the delicious green apples of the tree by the cursed lake when Warden had asked her to share a bite. Upon doing so his eyes had widened for he recognized the aftertaste of starmetal.

"All the vegetation around here tastes slightly of it, that's why hardly any animals come here, but this... this is laden with it!"

An idea had formed. If the star paralyzed the horrible creatures below... then maybe if she got enough of it, she would be able to better battle them. They began to hoard the fruit of the tree, and talked a druid to venture near the lake despite his misgivings. He had enriched the tree, making it a positive bounty of harvest. They had then paid the local brewer to distill the cache until they had a dozen barrels of 100 proof apple brandy. Together they experimented and cast complicated spells, further concentrating and enhancing the mixture. What was left was several kegs that literally glowed with a faint green light, and so strong that if Starry-Eyes was not careful could die of its drinking. She spent the next night slowly sipping. As its effects took hold she sang, spouting ballads of heroes not yet born, songs of glory and the coming of disaster. Several scribes took it all down, and Thorn danced with her that night. Their dance was the wild abandon of the fey, though seemed to have an underlying pattern that mixed star and tree, firefly and swooping owl. She began to glow, like the warm green of moonlight through canopy boughs and they left the confines of the distillery. Outside the townspeople gathered without quite knowing and joined with the swirling pair. With the last swallow of the first keg she took Warden in her arms and transformed. Leaving the assembled in the midst of the revelry of life, she flew higher and higher into the distance. She glew brighter and brighter as they ascended, and nearly seemed to explode as she and Warden made love a thousand feet above. When they returned to the village the next morning Starry-Eyes' eyes has gone from hazel to a brilliant emerald and there was an avocado tinge to her skin.

Since then strange sightings had been seen, and noises, especially around the lake area. Nothing definite, just a sense of unease and standing hairs. The uncanny feeling had increased and Starry-Eyes knew what it was, and her dreams confirmed it. Alhazarde would soon re-enter their skies and disturbing the sleep of those that were better off dreaming. The entire town had relocated to the next valley on her and Thorn's advice. She had been aiding the move when she saw it. The leathery frog was watching her from the top of a wagon. She had flown up to attack it when the shape had appeared, outlined against the sunset. It was one of the green winged men. It did not move nearly as smoothly as the last she had seen, seeming dizzy and drunken in its flight. The star had not yet appeared in the sky, but then her birthday was two weeks away. It must have been desperate to leave so early before and was obviously unable to achieve any great height. It had snatched a child, but her sling had met it's tiny head as it gained enough altitude to skim the treetops. It tumbled and fell. Starry-Eyes had hated to do it and risk the child, but even death was preferable to the taking.

That's why she was skimming the forest ground, a dozen villagers behind her, though Thorn kept close pace, crouched upon the back of a tamed and unafflicted chordevoc. The scent couldn't be mistaken, nothing in the world smelled as it. Suddenly the tracks stopped and the ground was turned up. She peered into the sky and closed her eyes, letting out short, clipped shrieks that echoed through the trees but could detect nothing. She landed on the ground and began to dance and spin, focusing on a point in the sky. As dizziness took her she fell, and a vision filled her mind. The child was being taken back to the lake. Starry-Eyes launched herself upwards and took chase...

Level 10

Halfling Were-Chorvedoc 2, Bard 4, Ranger 1, Green Star Adept 3

Small Humanoid (shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 4d6 + 6d8 + HD (50 hp or 60 hp Animal/Hybrid)
Initiative: +0 (+4 hybrid)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); Animal/Hybrid form: Fly 70 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 22 (+8 armor, +3 natural, +1 size), touch 11, flat-footed 22; Hybrid 28 (+8 armor, +4 dex, +5 natural, +1 size), touch 15, flat-footed 24; Animal 21 (+4 dex, +5 natural, +2 size), touch 16, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+5
Attack:
Animal - Talons +13 melee (1d3+2)
Halfling - +1 War Sling of Distance +10 ranged (1d6+3/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - Claw +8 melee (1d3+2)
Full Attack:
Animal - Talons +12 melee (1d3+2) and slam +13 melee (1d4+3)
Halfling - +1 War Sling of Distance +10 ranged (1d6+3/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - 2 Claws +11 melee (1d3+2) and slam +11 melee (1d4+3) and bite +6 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (2-1/2 ft./0 ft. animal form)
Special Attacks: Bard spells, favored enemy (aberrations), fascinate
Special Qualities: Bardic music 4/day, bardic knowledge, blindsense 60 ft., countersong, damage reduction 5/adamantine or silver, fortification 25%, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, low-light vision, lycanthropic empathy (birds), scent, unnatural metabolism, wild empathy
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +10, Will +11; (Hybrid) Fort +8, Ref +14, Will +12
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 11 (19 hybrid), Con 10 (12 hybrid), Int 10, Wis 14 (16 hybrid), Cha 17
Skills: Concentration +1, Climb +4, Decipher Script +2, Diplomacy +5, Hide +8 (+12 hybrid) (+16 animal), Jump +4, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +2, Knowledge (geography) +2, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (the planes) +8, Listen +8 (+9 hybrid), Move Silently +2 (+6 hybrid), Perform (dance) +12, Perform (sing) +6, Profession (astrologer) +8 (+9 hybrid), Spot +11 (+12 hybrid), Survival +4 (+5 hybrid)
Feats: Combat Casting, Dreamtelling, Flyby Attack(WereB), Nimbus of Light, Nymph's Kiss, Iron Will(WereB), Track(RangB), Weapon Finesse(WereB)
Traits: Quick
Challenge Rating: 6
Possessions: +1 war sling of distance, +5 leafweave studded armor
Alignment: Neutral Good
Level Adjustment: +2

Bard Spells: Caster level 9th. (Spells per day: (3/4/2); Save DC 13 + spell level):
0 - Dancing Lights, Know Direction, Message, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Songbird
1st - Feather Fall, Guiding Light, Ray of Hope, Swift Expeditious Retreat
2nd - Circle Dance, Eagle's Splendor, Luminous Armor

Blindsense (Ex): Starry-Eyes notices and locates creatures within 60 feet. Opponents still have total concealment against her.

Favored Enemy (Aberrations) (Ex): Starry-Eyes gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against aberrations. Likewise, she gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

Fortification (Ex): Starry-Eyes has resistance to attacks that affect other living creatures. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on her, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and the damage is instead rolled normally.

Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): In any form, Starry-Eyes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire birds. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as “friend,” “foe,” “flee,” and “attack.”

Nymph's Kiss: +1 to saves against spells and spell-like abilities.

Unnatural Metabolism (Ex): Starry-Eyes gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.

Wild Empathy (Ex): Starry-Eyes can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. Starry-Eyes rolls 1d20 and adds +4 to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, Starry-Eyes and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

Starry-Eyes can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:37 PM
Now for Part II!

http://i47.tinypic.com/ih8v7q.jpg

The memory of that night would haunt her for the next ten years. They had caught up with the green horror only to be ambushed by a dozen others. In the battle that followed the child had been dropped and drowned in the lake. Starry-Eyes had managed to grab the body before it sank into the depths, but had been unable, and the thought of what they may do with it below were the focus of many dreams. Furthermore, Warden had been killed. While protecting her. When she had dived for the child they had taken the opportunity to grab her, but Warden had fought tooth, nail and thorn, and she had managed to win free. The creatures had then driven them off, and Starry-Eyes watched with fury and crushing sadness from the boughs of the woods as near a dozen hurled upwards into the sky as the green glow suffused the night. Her only consolation was they were taking none with them.

The entire halfling nation had moved far away. She had begun to raise an army however, halflings, druids, fey creatures, and even several treants. Creatures who abhorred the unnatural presence of these kidnappers from outside the world. Starry-Eyes had become a local legend, a beautiful hobbledehoy of jade, or halfling as others called them, though she so petite some affectionately referred to her as a Quarterling, that could turn into an emerald nighthawk with the speed of the wind.

The comet was drawing closer each night, and they built camp around the lake. They waited for several days until the comet was right over, entrenching themselves in deep, but still nothing emerged. It was on the last night of the comet's approach that a message sounded in her head. The winged horrors had emerged from a well at a farm several counties over. They'd apparently been tunneling for a decade to connect the two water sources. Trying to stifle panic, Starry-Eyes leapt up and cried for all who could keep up to follow. She flew with all the speed she could muster, her eyes burning from the wind of her own velocity and leaving the others behind.

Starry-Eyes barely paused as she came upon the valley and saw houses on fire and heard the screams of others. Wheeling around and up and down were the winged beings. She dived and tore at them until wherever she flew was littered with tentacle and wing. Still, more came, dozens more than she had ever seen. Starry-Eyes began to despair when abruptly she recalled a dream that had impressed upon her great importance but until now she had never been able to recall. Her glow intensified until it was as if she was a green inferno. She launched herself out of one's clutches and gained height and began to weave in an aerial dance. The fire remained in the sky wherever she passed until a symbol filled the sky. The horrors that had given pursuit dropped out of the sky, falling like stones, many only barely able to spread their wings to avoid the houses. Several that held children dropped them as they plummeted, and only Starry-Eyes' quick action saved them.

She didn't have time to give words of comfort to the bawling young before she was skyward again. Her force had begun to catch up and were setting on the dazed abominations. One shouted a warning to her and she looked over. One of the kidnappers had avoided her symbol and was heading up. A steel resolve filled Starry-Eyes as she watched it. Not one more child would be taken. Not while she drew breath. She sped for it as it began its trip up. She slowly gained on it over the course of the night, but the breath in her lungs was coming harder, and each was colder than the most frigid winter. Still she struggled on, closing her eyes against the chill lest they freeze, and navigated by sound, only opening every few minutes to make certain she was still on its trail. Then there came a point where she could breathe no more. She tried to beat her wings faster, to reach them before all was lost... but she could not force them on. She had flown harder, faster and farther than she had ever dreamed before, but it was still not enough. This despairing thought was her last as she fell into darkness.

The body of Starry-Eyes struck the ground with such force she left her own small crater, but of her body, nothing remained after impact.

Starry-Eyes opened her namesakes and looking down at her was a familiar green face, green eyes and pointed green ears. Not so familiar was the smile of peace and contentment on his normally grim features.

"Warden..." she breathed and they embraced. Starry-Eyes wept with joy as she held him. She was vaguely aware that she was on an island of lillies, glow in the evening dusk, but her eyes were clouded with tears. After a blissful eternity they released one another.

"Am I dead?" she asked, not really certain how she felt about it.

"Yes. Than a doornail." he answered calmly. "But that's ok."

The deadpan expression on his face melted and he threw his head back with laughter, and Starry-Eyes joined him as they embraced and kissed passionately, the flowers springing up unharmed from their frolic.

"Oh Warden... I... I have so much to do still. I can't just leave them all..." she began, but he put a finger to her lips and nodded.

"I know, I know... your heart is so noble my dearest. I would have you here by my side for always, but I knew you would not rest. She thought as much as well, but we will have forever someday."

"She who?"

"The Queen of Stars..." Warden answered and nodded out to the sea. A ship unlike any she had heard of and a hundred fold as beautiful as anything she could imagine was sailing. The stars overhead were so bright despite the gentle glow of dusk that it seemed ocean and sky met as they reflected off the gentle waters. The boat pulled up along side the island and a bare foot stepped out onto the cushioning blossoms. Along it was a woman three times Starry-Eye's height, dressed not in a dress, but in starlight, constantly streaming down her slim body and puddling at her feet as she walked. The woman came over and looked into Starry-Eye's wondering gaze and knelt onto both knees.

"Good evening little Starry-Eyes." the woman said with a smile, and the spark in her eye was one Starry-Eyes had seen many a time in reflection. The same glow of adventure and wild abandon. "It wasn't time for you to meet me, but your sacrifice was so great and so brave that I came anyways. Name any one thing you wish and it will be yours."

"I have all I could wish already Star Mother." Starry-Eyes whispered. "But I cannot take it knowing that my loved peoples are left in such fear. I wish... I wish I could have the strength to protect them."

The lady looked Starry-Eyes in her eyes and then embraced her.

"Little Starry-Eyes, I name you Star Sister, for you are truly an angel of mercy." the Queen of Stars said into her ear. "You will have this wish, but I give you warning, if you are successful, it will be a long time by even the reckoning of us immortals before you will return."

Starry-Eyes leaned back and looked to the Queen of Stars, "The years will pass like falling rain for I know what awaits me."

The Queen of Stars nodded in satisfaction and stood.

"Then drink of one another one last time until the next."

Starry-Eyes and Warden clasped to one another, and as they embraced he seemed to wrap about her like a blanket. The beautiful island faded away in a rosy glow of warmth and happiness...

Level 15
(Sweet Spot)

Halfling Were-Chorvedoc 2, Bard 4, Ranger 1, Green Star Adept 6, Saint 2

Small Outsider (native, shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 4d6 + 9d8 +13 HD (76 hp or 92 hp Animal/Hybrid)
Initiative: +0 (+4 hybrid)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); Animal/Hybrid form: Fly 70 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 26 (+8 armor, +3 insight, +4 natural, +1 size), touch 14, flat-footed 26; Hybrid 33 (+8 armor, +4 dex, +4 insight +6 natural, +1 size), touch 19, flat-footed 29; Animal 26 (+4 dex, +4 insight, +6 natural, +2 size), touch 20, flat-footed 22
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+8
Attack:
Animal - Talons +15 melee (1d3+3)
Halfling - +1 War Sling of Distance +13 ranged (1d6+4/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - Claw +14 melee (1d3+3)
Full Attack:
Animal - Talons +15 melee (1d3+3) and slam +15 melee (1d4+4)
Halfling - +3 War Sling of Distance +15 ranged (1d6+6/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - 2 Claws +14 melee (1d3+3) and slam +14 melee (1d4+4) and bite +9 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (2-1/2 ft./0 ft. animal form)
Special Attacks: Bard spells, favored enemy (aberrations), fascinate
Special Qualities: Bardic music 4/day, bardic knowledge, blindsense 60 ft., countersong, damage reduction 10/adamantine and evil, fast healing 10, fortification 50%, immunity to acid, cold, electricity and petrification, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, low-light vision, lycanthropic empathy (birds), protective aura, resistance to fire 10, scent, tongues, unnatural metabolism, wild empathy
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +11, Will +13; (Hybrid) Fort +10, Ref +15, Will +14
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 11 (19 hybrid), Con 12 (14 hybrid), Int 10, Wis 16 (18 hybrid), Cha 22
Skills: Concentration +2 (+3 hybrid), Climb +5, Decipher Script +2, Gather Information +9, Hide +8 (+12 hybrid) (+16 animal), Jump +5, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +2, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +2, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (the planes) +8, Listen +9 (+10 hybrid), Move Silently +2 (+6 hybrid), Perform (dance) +15, Perform (sing) +9, Profession (astrologer) +8 (+9 hybrid), Spot +12 (+13 hybrid), Survival +5 (+6 hybrid)
Feats: Combat Casting, Craft Wondrous Item, Dreamtelling, Flyby Attack(WereB), Knight of Stars, Nimbus of Light, Nymph's Kiss, Iron Will(WereB), Track(RangB), Weapon Finesse(WereB)
Traits: Quick
Challenge Rating: 15
Possessions: +3 war sling of distance, +5 leafweave studded armor
Alignment: Neutral Good
Level Adjustment: +4

Bard Spells: Caster level 12th. (Spells per day: (3/2/2/1); Save DC 18 + spell level):
0 - Dancing Lights, Know Direction, Message, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Songbird
1st - Feather Fall, Guiding Light, Ray of Hope, Swift Expeditious Retreat
2nd - Circle Dance, Eagle's Splendor, Luminous Armor, Summon Swarm
3rd - Invoke the Cerulean Sign, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance

Blindsense (Ex): Starry-Eyes notices and locates creatures within 60 feet. Opponents still have total concealment against her.

Favored Enemy (Aberrations) (Ex): Starry-Eyes gains a +4 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against aberrations. Likewise, she gets a +4 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

Fortification (Ex): Starry-Eyes has resistance to attacks that affect other living creatures. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on her, there is a 50% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and the damage is instead rolled normally.

Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): In any form, Starry-Eyes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire birds. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as “friend,” “foe,” “flee,” and “attack.”

Nymph's Kiss: +1 to saves against spells and spell-like abilities.

Protective Aura (Su): As magic circle against evil and and lesser globe of invulnerability. Caster level 11th.

Spell-like Abilities: At Will - Bless, Guidance, Resistance, Virtue. Caster level 12th. Save DC's are Charisma-based.

Tongues (Sp): Continuous, as the spell, CL 14th.

Unnatural Metabolism (Ex): Starry-Eyes gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects. She gains a +8 bonus against poison.

Wild Empathy (Ex): Starry-Eyes can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. Starry-Eyes rolls 1d20 and adds +7 to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, Starry-Eyes and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

Starry-Eyes can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.



http://i45.tinypic.com/n2lq10.jpg

The 40th anniversary of the Green Eve was drawing near, though Starry-Eyes hadn't aged one day since she had awakened at the roots of the apple tree. Many that had seen her thought she a spirit, and in some ways she was right. She was no ghost though. There was a joy to her, a lessening of all her troubles that had eclipsed her radiance. She had back the mischievousness of her childhood coupled with the wisdom of a woman. All who met her could hardly help but fall a little in love with the green skinned, starry-eyed woman child. Starry-Eyes felt whole like she had not for so long, and the memory of Warden and the sea of stars was a vivid glow in her mind.

Another strange thing had occurred upon awakening. The sign she had created the night she died was engraved over her heart as if with a pen of fire, glowing even when she did not. It was a symbol of life, of rightness.

She had finally finished the last of the brew, surrounded by her closest friends and family. They had toasted the memory of Warden and rejoiced at those still alive and fighting. It had been somewhat of a shock, she recalled, how her heart had slowly stopped beating, her breath slowing. But there had been a sense of completeness. It wasn't like stone she had become, but instead she'd been frozen in that perfect moment of camaraderie and remembrance and hope. The Queen of Stars had been true to her word.

As always the green creatures arrived, but this time they were ready. Hiding amidst the dying coals was one of the frog-like creatures. She pretended not to notice and sat down as if to eat with her profile showing to it. With miniscule motions it gathered itself and leapt for her. Without even looking up she caught it in a slim green hand. It might have weighed a hundred pounds but Starry-Eyes held it like a feather. Looking it right in its triangular eye she constricted her fingers and the creature crumpled like a tin cup. She dropped it and its skin twitched and roiled before slowly disolving.

"They're coming." she announced to the gathering.

Though they this time emerged at a dozen different points, the patrols were privy to it. Starry-Eyes was anathema to them, starmetal infused with the life of this world and a symbol of the natural order. One had attempted to steal a child away but with a simple call of 'Stop' it had paused in the air. She had swooped to capture the child and the green horror had fallen, exploding into pieces upon the cobbles far below. Starry-Eyes winked at the child and fear seemed to drop from him. He whooped in return.

'Let's see it return from that.' she thought in satisfaction.

She slew many that night, but there were simply too widespread to capture all. A few slipped through, though none with captives. As they ascended higher and higher they wondered at the bright green glow in the distance, though far sharper and nearer than the comet. Below, the world was a globe upon which broiling clouds and mountain ranges could be seen. As they continued to fly the spark grew rapidly closer. Watching them come, in the frigid, sparkling airlessness was Starry-Eyes. And she was grinning.

There she remained, watching from above, descending to aid in battle against the unnatural and those in need. Then she would return upwards, ever vigilant. She danced across the sky, reading stars and dreaming dreams, waiting for the day the green men and their kind would be driven wholly from the world. Perhaps someday she would follow them and do battle on their home-front. Until then she would remain above.

If ever you are in need, wish upon the green star. It might come true.


Level 20

Halfling Were-Chorvedoc 2, Bard 4, Ranger 1, Saint 2, Keeper of the Cerulean Sign 1, Green Star Adept 10

Small Construct (shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 5d6 + 13d8 + 20 HD (104 HP)
Initiative: +0 (+4 hybrid)
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); Animal/Hybrid form: Fly 70 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 35 (+8 armor, +3 insight, +5 luck, +8 natural, +1 size), touch 19, flat-footed 35; Hybrid 42 (+8 armor, +4 dex, +5 luck, +4 insight, +10 natural, +1 size), touch 24, flat-footed 38; Animal 35 (+4 dex, +4 insight, +5 luck, +10 natural, +2 size), touch 25, flat-footed 31
Base Attack/Grapple: +11/+11
Attack:
Animal - Talons +17 melee (1d3+5)
Halfling - +5 War Sling of Distance +23 ranged (1d6+5/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - Claw +17 melee (1d3+5)
Full Attack:
Animal - Talons +17 melee (1d3+5) and slam +17 melee (1d4+7)
Halfling - +5 War Sling of Distance +23 ranged (1d6+5/20x4/100 ft.)
Hybrid - 2 Claws +17 melee (1d3+5) and slam +17 melee (1d4+7) and bite +12 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (2-1/2 ft./0 ft. animal form)
Special Attacks: Bard spells, favored enemy (aberrations), fascinate
Special Qualities: Bardic music 4/day, bardic knowledge, blindsense 60 ft., construct traits, countersong, damage reduction 10/adamantine and evil, detect aberrant taint, fast healing 10, immunity to acid, cold, and electricity, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, low-light vision, lycanthropic empathy (birds), protective aura, resistance to fire 10, scent, tongues, wild empathy
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +12, Will +17; (Hybrid) Fort +11, Ref +16, Will +18
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 10 (18 hybrid), Con -, Int 10, Wis 16 (18 hybrid), Cha 23
Skills: Concentration +8, Climb +7, Decipher Script +2, Gather Information +11, Hide +8 (+12 hybrid) (+16 animal), Jump +7, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +2, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +2, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (the planes) +10, Listen +8 (+9 hybrid), Move Silently +2 (+6 hybrid), Perform (dance) +15, Perform (sing) +8, Profession (astrologer) +8 (+9 hybrid), Sense Motive +8 (+9 hybrid), Spot +12 (+13 hybrid), Survival +5 (+6 hybrid)
Feats: Aberration Banemagic, Combat Casting, Craft Wondrous Item, Dreamtelling, Flyby Attack(WereB), Knight of Stars, Nimbus of Light, Nymph's Kiss, Iron Will(WereB), Track(RangB), Weapon Finesse(WereB)
Traits: Quick
Challenge Rating: 20
Possessions: +5 war sling of distance, +5 leafweave studded armor, cerulean sign +5 (will saves against aberrations)
Alignment: Neutral Good
Level Adjustment: +4

Bard Spells: Caster level 17th. (Spells per day: (3/5/5/3/1); Save DC 18 + spell level):
0 - Dancing Lights, Know Direction, Message, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Songbird
1st - Feather Fall, Guiding Light, Ray of Hope, Swift Expeditious Retreat
2nd - Circle Dance, Eagle's Splendor, Luminous Armor, Summon Swarm
3rd - Allegro, Haste, Invoke the Cerulean Sign, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4th - Hold Monster, Legend Lore

Blindsense (Ex): Starry-Eyes notices and locates creatures within 60 feet. Opponents still have total concealment against her.

Favored Enemy (Aberrations) (Ex): Starry-Eyes gains a +4 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against aberrations. Likewise, she gets a +4 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): In any form, Starry-Eyes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire birds. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as “friend,” “foe,” “flee,” and “attack.”

Nymph's Kiss: +1 to saves against spells and spell-like abilities.

Protective Aura (Su): As magic circle against evil and and lesser globe of invulnerability. Caster level 11th.

Spell-like Abilities: At Will - Bless, Guidance, Resistance, Virtue. Caster level 12th. Save DC's are Charisma-based.

Tongues (Sp): Continuous, as the spell, CL 14th.

Wild Empathy (Ex): Starry-Eyes can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person. Starry-Eyes rolls 1d20 and adds +7 to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, Starry-Eyes and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

Starry-Eyes can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

http://i46.tinypic.com/n6f3fp.jpg

Sources

Book of Exalted Deeds
- Knight of Stars, Nimbus of Light, and Nymph's Kiss feats
- Luminous Armor and Ray of Hope spell
- Saint template

Complete Arcane
- Green Star Adept PrC

Heroes of Horror
- Dreamtelling feat

Lords of Madness
- Aberration Banemagic feat
- Keeper of the Cerulean Sign PrC
- Invoke the Cerulean Sign spell

Monster Manual 3.5
- Lycanthrope template

Player's Handbook
- Everything else

Races of the Wild
- Chordevoc creature
- Leafweave armor
- Warsling weapon

Spell Compendium
- Allegro, Songbird and Swift Expeditious Retreat spells

Unearthed Arcana
- Quick Trait

Yo Momma
- A good time



Overview

Starry-Eyes is a little bit of everything. She can be a ranged fighter, a melee fighter, hit and run, or long and drawn out. Her spells also help out greatly.

Halfling
Halflings are just bursting full of little saves and bonuses that add greatly to any build. Their size also allows them to become were chordevoc's.

Bard
Though her BAB isn't phenomenal, it's better than taking wizard or sorcerer, and 3/4ths is as good as most other gish builds. Also, as Bards may wear light armor without spell disruption they meet the prerequisite Combat Casting feat of GSA. Finally, a bard can meet the heavy skill requirements that would drain almost any other class dry.

Ranger
Ranger may seem a dip to push that base attack 1 point up to meet the 4 BAB of GSA, but it was chosen for flavor reasons. The high Charisma that the bard uses reflects well with Wild Empathy. As well, Favorite Enemy aids much with the theme of the build by allowing Starry-Eyes to better fight aberrations. The bonus Track feat then melds with the Scent ability granted by the lycanthrope template.

Keeper of the Cerulean Sign
This class was taken for sheer flavor. However, it does aid in battle against Aberrations, and the ability to make a Cerulean Sign adds to the AC, as well as saves against aberrations. It also grants a much needed additional caster level.

Lycanthrope Template
Why a Chordevoc? Well, first thing, the flavor. It's a flying nocturnal hawk used by halfling for guardians. It fit perfect with the story. Blindsense 60 feet too? Booyah. Also, it has the highest fly speed of any HD 1 animal, and good maneuverability to top it off. Its dexterity is fantastic, and though the GSA lowers it, the halfling bonus evens it out again. You now have a creature with both great strength and agility with size modifier bonuses to both melee and ranged attacks. She's strong enough to lift heavy burdens while she flies and drop them on foes as well.

The additional slam attack from GSA now gives this fella 4 separate attacks that bypasses adamantine, evil, silver and magic damage reductions.

Then you have the natural armor which stacks nicely with the GSA. Throw in the Saint template and by the end you have an AC in the 30's without any armor or magical enhancements. With those you crank up this bad boy to an AC in the 40's.

If you simply want to hide, chordevoc and halfling hide bonuses make a nice little synergy together. Being able to become tiny-sized doesn't hurt either. Yeah, +8 additional to hide checks.

Saint Template
This may reek of cheese, but bear with me. I sacrificed 2 levels of casting and BAB to take this, as well as 3 exalted feats. However, these feats fit perfectly with the concept, and Nymph's Kiss in particular helps fill in the skills lost to PrC's (that really make no sense requiring them truth be told). The insight bonus meshes with the wisdom increase granted by the lycanthrope template. As well, the cold immunity now allows Starry-Eyes to remain in space indefinitely. Lesser Globe of Invulnerability blocks many force effects such as Magic Missile that would get through the many invulnerabilities of the GSA. Add in the at will Circle Against Evil and Starry-Eyes is now immune to mind-affecting effects, making her almost a pure construct in way of immunities. With acid, cold, and electricity immunity, fire resistance, and damage reduction that requires the weapon be both adamantine AND evil... good luck harming her even if you do manage to bypass her AC.

Then you have the +2 bonus to the Ranger's favorite enemy against aberrations, plus an additional 1d6 damage as most aberrations are evil. If they are outsider-type abominations it's 1d8.

Oh, and Fast Healing, this need not work only on living creatures. She's a construct that heals. This is tasty.

Saves
Despite the multi-classing, starry-Eyes has very nice saves to top what can actually bypass all of the above. Nymph's kiss bumps this up by +1 against spells/spell-likes. Against aberration spells and spell-like abilities she has no less than a +6 bonus to all saves.

Spells
Though all the spells were chosen to go with the theme, Luminous Armor is probably the best to the point of cheesiness.
It grants a +5 bonus to armor (yeah, like this build needs it higher), but the shining bit also makes them take a -4 penalty to attacks. This is like a +9 bonus to armor that lasts all day. With this sucker and some very minor armor enhancements your AC could be in the 50's by level 20.

However, here's where the cheese come in. The penalty for such a nice spell is you take strength damage. However, you are now immune to strength damage so get it free. Just something to think on.


Optional

Classes
Except for the immortality of it, the last three levels of GSA are pretty worthless. You have no need to eat, sleep or breathe by that part and that's all Starry-Eyes needs to survive. Further levels in Keeper of the Cerulean Sign would be appropriate as the granted abilities outweigh that of bard, yet has full bardic spell progression. A dip into Paladin of Freedom would be good for the charisma-based bonuses to saves and additional BAB.

Flaws
If Flaws weren't considered in bad taste I'd have given her the Unattentive flaw due to her blind determination to save others and defeat the aberrations.
In exchange I'd give her either the Power Climb feat so as to fly upwards even more quickly or Nemesis from the BoED for more Aberration smiting fun.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:41 PM
It's alive! It's ALIIIIIIIIIVE!
Dr. Julius Mordenstein, "the Monster of Morden Hill"
CE Human Dread Necromancer 8/Green Star Adept 8/Fleshwarper 4

A water-soaked letter written in an elegant hand:

My dearest Julia,

I write to you with a heavy heart, for all of our fears were true. Your uncle, your namesake, has passed beyond all mortal help. Julius Mordenstein, my brother, is no longer. In the cell across from me paces a monster with his face. Oh, to describe its features in all their horror would drive a man mad! His flesh is sallow and gray, like the corpses that he dug up from the graveyards at night. Yet even now in darkest night, his hair glows a strange green light, and veins of silver and green trace around his blood body where once blood pumped. His left arm is gone, replaced by a black, metallic claw, and his left hand is that of a strange beast. I remember my brother being of slight build, not the hulking monstrosity that paces endlessly before me. Only his eyes remain the same, yet those soft brown eyes have turned dark with hate and murder.

What could have driven such a good man to such an evil fate? For I remember when we were school-boys, it seemed certain that while I was destined to lead the family business, Julius would enter the clergy. And when my parents sent him to the church of Pelor, the first reports from the abbey were ecstatic. No initiate had ever mastered the secrets of holding the dead at bay as fast as my brother, by all accounts. It seemed his future was to be as bright as mine.

We lost touch over the years. I knew he married, and then later that his wife, Mary, had died in a tragic accident. Perhaps it was her death that pushed him over the edge, or perhaps it was years of abuse within the church of Pelor, which only now have begun to come to light.

I heard most often from Julius when he requested cash for his "work" for the church. Dear Julia, you know I am a pious and filial man, and so of course I supported him. If only I knew the experiments he had been carrying out! The locals have shown me his labratory: the dead bodies (some freshly killed!), the hacksaw and chains he used to secure himself for his self-inflicted experimentations, the entire estate filled with that same glowing green dust.

Yet worst of all was the horror I glimpsed for only a moment, and even now I wonder if perhaps my nerves were playing tricks on me. I thought I glimpsed for a moment the severed head of his wife, Mary! Yet her head was animate, her eyes glowing green with infernal hate. The head flew at me, screaming in fury, and I ducked aside in terror. When I looked up, she was gone. Yes, now I'm sure it was merely a figment of my imagination.

I hear him calling to me again. He claims it is too hot in here, yet it is dead winter! Still, he is my brother. I heard bats outside earlier, scrabbling at the windows, but they seem to have left by now. I will go and open the windows. He is to be hanged tomorrow. Pelor watch over us all.

With everlasting love,
Your father

A second letter, written in a messy scrawl:

Julia,

Your "evil" uncle Julius is dead. His last wish was for me to see to his experiments affairs. I will remain here for some time. Do not send anyone to disturb me! I will contact you when I have finished my his work.

Regards,
Your father


Dr. Julius Mordenstein, "the Monster of Morden Hill"
CE Human Dread Necromancer 8/Green Star Adept 8/Flesh Grafter 4

CL 15, Effective CL 19. 12d6/8d8 HD, BAB +12

Stats 32 PB:
Str: 14
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Int : 10
Wis : 8
Cha : 16

Final stats: (With +5 tome of charisma and +6 belt of magnificence)
Str: 24
Dex: 15
Con: 22
Int : 16
Wis : 14
Cha : 32
Boosting Cha at each level

Skills: Full ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) and Intimidate, otherwise all required ranks in skills. Should have no problems with entry requirements.

Feats:
1 : Dreadful Wrath
1: Skill Mastery (Heal)
3 : Tomb-tainted Soul
6 : Combat Casting
9 : Imperious Command
12 : Maximize Spell
15 : Graft Flesh
18 : Mastery of Day and Night

20th level Spotlight: CE Human Dread Necromancer 8/Green Star Adept 8/Flesh Grafter 4

What does he do:
I wanted to make a character who was a melee mage. Not a "gish" that buffed himself and then hit things with a sword, but rather a caster who would cast spells in the thick of melee. Green Star Adept's abilities are nearly all defensive in nature, so I took advantage of all the defenses that if offers. With a character obsessed with constructs and undeath, fleshwarper seemed a great way to mix the two together (yuck!!), especially since it strengthened the undead familiar at the same time.

Mordenstein ("Mord") is a caster who runs into melee and casts AOE negative energy spells each round, along with a constant trio of fear/paralyze auras, a zombie army, and a deadly familiar. His resistances and DR from Green Star Adept, Dread Necro, and grafts all reduce the damage and effects he is vulnerable to, while each round he heals himself and his undead allies while hurting enemies.

Specific tactics and abilities:

Defenses: (Or how to run into melee and not die!)
+8 bonus on saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and +6 against death effects and necromancy effects.
Immunity to inhaled poisons, drowning, sleep effects
DR 8/adamantine, DR 10/magic, and DR 4/Magic and Bludgeoning
Bonus hit points from Vampiric Touch or False Life.
50% fortification from GSA
Perpetual Mind Blank from his ghostly visage familiar.
+4 Natural Armor from GSA, and +2 armor from Fleshwarper
Cloak grants 20% miss chance

Fear and intimidate tactics:
Simply by casting a spell, he triggers a fear aura from dreadful wrath (DC 31 or shaken within 20ft). He has a second close-range fear aura from dread necromancer (DC 25 or shaken, as a free action!), and a third (DC 13 or paralyzed) aura from his ghostly visage companion. He can intimidate as a move action with his armor, which sends opponents within 10ft straight to cowering for 1 round with imperious command and the Never Outnumbered skill trick.

These are all free or move or non-actions, leaving him free to cast spells with standard and swift actions. In addition, he has some high-level fear spells, namely Eyebite and Fear.

AOE damage tactics:
Mordenstein relies mostly on Mass Inflict Serious Wounds, auto-maximized and with a rod of greater empower spell, to deal about 60-100 damage a round to ~20 opponents, targeting himself, his familiar, and his undead to heal them at the same time. With tomb-tainted soul, negative energy heals him, so he can sustain himself in the middle of a melee by simply continuing to cast negative energy spells - which with mastery of day and night are auto-maximized. Other AOE spells include Waves of Exhaustion, Evard's Black Tentacles, Circle of Death, Cloudkill, Insect Plague, and Acid Fog.

Single target fights:
Mordenstein has top picks such as Destruction (DC 30 save or die), Harm, Greater Harm, Finger of Death, etc.

Familiar:
His "familiar" is a ghostly visage (the returned soul of his wife, Mary). Since they can share spells, he typically uses her as an additional target for touch and personal spell picks like Vampiric Touch or Eyebite. She can "hold" a touch spell as well, usable as an emergency healing spell for Mord in combat or as an attack. She also manifests a 5-ft tentacle thanks to fleshgrafter, giving her the reach to make attacks while remaining with Mord.

Mob tactics:
Mord can control 4+Cha x CL worth of undead HD. Assuming a CL of 19, that's about 124 HD of undead. Each has +4 Str/Con and +4 HD/level. He also has Planar Binding to summon powerful outsiders, which make excellent zombies when they don't want to cooperate. Frankly, mob tactics are something that will break any character with a little effort, so there isn't much point to optimizing them in my opinion.

Possession:
Finally, it's worth pointing out that Mord can possess creatures with Magic Jar. With proper care he can therefore possess an outsider summoned with planar binding or an opponent, avoiding many of the risks of fighting.

Equipment:

Belt of Magnificence +6 (200k), Tome of Leadership +4 (110k), Cloak of Displacement, Minor (20k), Vest of Resistance (25k), +5 Dreadful Mithril Breastplate (~35k), Lesser Ring of Desecration (4.4K), Ring of Anticipation (6K), Angel Wings graft (8K), Battlefist graft (6K?), Rod of Greater Empower (121k), Rod of Extend (11K), Rod of Quicken (75k), ~100k left over for more grafts, undead creation, and minor items, especially since you get a free graft pool from fleshwarper.

Style:
If anyone chooses to play as Mordenstein, remember that you are a horrific amalgation of scavenged body parts, half-undead and half-construct, yet still are a human on the inside. You radiate auras of terror, your wife is a symbiotic undead fiend on your face with tentacles, you have 120+ HD of undead backing you up, you have DR and immunities up the wazoo, you no longer need to eat, sleep, or breathe (GSA...), and you shoot balls of death that hurt people and heal you...just for starters. Play it up for everything it's worth.

Additional cheese:

Trait - Unnatural (+2 to fear spell and effect DCs, -2 to interaction with animals)
Flaws - Arcane Disciple for some tasty spells, Improved Toughness, maybe Practiced Spellcaster

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:44 PM
MEGATRON HAS FALL-, oh, Stardream? Sorry.
Journal of Stardream Kaurrek, Illumian Duskblade

Sources beyond the SRD: Races of Destiny, PHB 2, Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane

Adventure's Beginning (1st-6th)
I leave the enclave of my birth this day, to learn of the world outside. It is our custom for each young Stardream to leave the enclave when he or she comes of age. Returning after two decades or more, more experienced, wiser, and with an amazing repository of tales and knowledge to share. I keep this journal so that I will not forget what I have seen. My scattered knowledge may yet assist me in my travels, and my natural strength will hopefully keep me from being slain by an owlbear my first night away. I will see the world, but my heart and soul is eternally devoted to the Stardream.

Stardream Kaurrek
LG Illumian Duskblade 1

Stats (32 point buy): Str 18, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 2 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks, Knowledge (history) 2 ranks.
Feats: Monkey Grip

Wielding a Large greatsword for maximum damage. Duskblade has all the necessary skills, meaning that Kaurrek can pick up most of the necessary skills at 1st level. Illumian is key.

I entered the human nation of Qynaere yesterday. At first I thought I had gone the wrong way, as there are so many other races here. I met some odd people in the local inn. Minna, a halfling druid, Emeline, a rather pretty human cleric, Hadriss, an elven wizard, and Daven, a gnome scout. They said that they were adventurers, and invited me to join them. I did, and we began our travels.
---
Kobolds ambushed us while we were sleeping. I’ve never seen Daven so fierce before. Apparently there’s some old hatred between the gnomes and kobolds. Religion was never my strong suit. The tale of Garl Glittergold and Kurtlumak is copied down on the next page. It is an interesting tale, to be sure. Perhaps the cabal will be interested. I do not think we yet have a word-for-word retelling of the story in our cabal library.
---
No one told me adventuring was so dirty. We spent two weeks slogging through a swamp to catch that yuan-ti sorceress, and never found her or that illustrated manuscript she stole. So we’re going to spend two more weeks here getting out. Lovely. I’m out of ink too.
---
Hadriss has told me all about the original duskblades. I feel truly honored when I realize the legacy of my chosen path. The tale he told is copied down on the following page, for future reference. Daven's drunk and telling increasingly horrible jokes and Minna's deep in discussion with Emeline about the nature of faith. We caught the yuan-ti. I am truly blessed to have these friends.
-----
How many years has it been since I last wrote in this journal? My cabal seems so far away, so secondary. It is an odd feeling, to remember a time when I adventured only for my cabal. I still remember the impulse and duty that drove me to write those words. I don’t feel that devotion any more. I am a proud father to a half-human child, a successful scholar, and a skilled adventurer. If my cabal could see me, I likely would be cast out at once. I swore I wouldn’t forget, swore I wouldn’t let go. But I have let go, and I do not regret it.

Kaurrek Stardream
LG Illumian Duskblade 4/Fighter 2
Stats (32 point buy): Str 19, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Decipher Script 2 ranks, Jump 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 2 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks, Knowledge (history) 2 ranks.
Feats: Monkey Grip, Combat Casting (duskblade bonus), Improved Sigil (Aesh), Weapon Focus (greatsword) (fighter bonus), Power Attack (fighter bonus), Cleave
Sigils: Aesh (+2 on Strength-based skill checks), Krau (+2 caster level)

The whole idea is a melee fighter with magic who goes SAD for Strength and deals amazing damage to multiple foes. Duskblade gives Combat Casting, freeing up a feat slot.

Right now, Kaurrek is a melee fighter, a duskblade with a fighter dip. nothing extraordinary. Tactics involve hitting things with a comically oversized greatsword charged with various spells. You can cast a lot of spells after you get Aeshkrau, and it pulls you towards being SAD for Strength. Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch are two solid spell choices.


Drink Me (7th-12th)

Daven, Hadriss, Minna, and I are going to fight a terrible black dragon that has been ravaging the south. I am curious to see a dragon face to face for the first time, and am sincerely hoping that I and my friends survive.
---
By the gods, today was a nightmare. I’d rather face down that black dragon again than celebrate my hollow victory. My feet have blisters, my fingers have blisters, my blisters have blisters, and they want me to dance and revel despite the fact that two of my comrades died to kill that dragon. I much prefer to sit here, writing in the empty alchemist’s lab. The wine I am drinking tastes utterly awful, and has this metallic aftertaste. Perhaps I should be thinking, not drowning my sorrows in poorly made wine. But I don’t want to think. Thinking brings back memories that I don’t need. Not right now.
---
I feel awful. My skin is cold and clammy, my fingers are clumsy, and I’ve crushed three quills already. If I didn’t know better, I’d say my skin definitely has a greenish tinge to it. I must contact Minna. It will not do to show up to my own knighting ill.
---
Am I going crazy? My skin feels as cold as ice, as hard as steel, and is tinted green. I see the world through blurred eyes, now the color of emeralds, no pupils or whites visible. I feel this ache in my bones, a hunger for something that cannot be quenched by food or drink. What is happening to me?
-----
Time was, I’d find this more amusing. A human turned into a being of words and symbols turning into a statue of metal. As it is, I can only struggle to cry, and curse my luck. I do suppose I brought this upon myself somehow. My sense of touch is numbed, as if I am separated from the world by a thick cloth. And I know this transformation won’t stop…I can’t make it stop or reverse what has happened…

A terrifying hunger gnaws at my very core, and I now know why others would kill for starmetal. The transformation must be completed, for better or for worse. There is only enough for a few to achieve full transformation each time Alhazarde is sighted. Every time, only a few shards fall. Once every 23 years…soon it shall come again. And I will be ready. If this transformation cannot be halted, I will finish it, and end the suffering I live through.

At last I have arrived. Alhazarde soared over this locale only yesterday, and I have found the metal I require. Three shards the size of my outstretched hand. It is all that lies here, and more than enough to complete the transformation. I must hurry back, before I am attacked by the others who seek this precious metal.

Kaurrek Stardream
LG Illumian Duskblade 4/Fighter 2/Green Star Adept 4/Knight 2
Stats (32 point buy): Str 23, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Concentration 5 ranks, Craft (alchemy) 2 ranks, Decipher Script 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Jump 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 2 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks, Knowledge (history) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks
Feats: Monkey Grip, Combat Casting (duskblade bonus), Improved Sigil (Aesh), Weapon Focus (greatsword) (fighter bonus), Power Attack (fighter bonus), Cleave, Leap of the Heavens, Leap Attack
Sigils: Aesh (+2 on Strength-based skill checks), Krau (+2 caster level)


Knight levels grant hit points and BAB. Better than more levels in fighter. Also Bulwark of Defense in a few levels, which is nice for a melee combatant. Also: Green Star Adept levels. Looks bad. But when combined with Aeshkrau, the spell-spamming melee attacker role is only reinforced, as your Strength increases. Damage reduction is actually one of the best features of the class, and can't be reliably bypassed unless every enemy you fight is a 16th level monk or hits with adamantine weapons. In which case you have an evil DM.

Leap Attack raises damage for a damage-heavy build, and Leap of the Heavens makes it easier to activate. There is almost no reason not to try it each round.


One Final Breath (13th-19th)

My days go past in a blur of pain, training sessions, and alchemical starmetal concoctions of varied bitterness. My body is trying to reject the transformation, and I must complete it before my life ends. I am alone. It is likely that this will always be so.

Will the pain not stop? Each day I become a little stiffer, each breath and heartbeat seems so loud, for I know they soon will cease. I savor each meal, though their flavors are weakened, for my body has almost ceased to accept food and drink. Breathe in. Breathe out. I drink the starmetal infusion, barely able to taste the bitter metallic flavor. Breathe in. Breathe out. My heart beats once, twice, and stops, just as my last breath leaves my body. I look at my vivid green skin, feel my flesh, now more like a suit of adamantine full plate than anything else, remember the day my love Emeline forsook me, declaring me a monster. I suppose I am.

Kaurrek Stardream
LG Illumian Duskblade 4/Fighter 2/Green Star Adept 7/Knight 3
Stats (32 point buy): Str 26, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Craft (alchemy) 2 ranks, Decipher Script 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Jump 11 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 11 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 2 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks, Knowledge (history) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Monkey Grip, Combat Casting (duskblade bonus), Improved Sigil (Aesh), Weapon Focus (greatsword) (fighter bonus), Power Attack (fighter bonus), Cleave, Leap of the Heavens, Leap Attack, Great Cleave
Sigils: Aesh (+2 on Strength-based skill checks), Krau (+2 caster level)

So we've got Bulwark of Defense, Null Metabolism, and more Strength. Also Great Cleave. Bulwark of Defense is actually really good for someone who relies almost entirely on hitting things with oversized magically charged metal sticks. Null Metabolism...it's on the way to Emerald Perfection. Not great, not bad. Also provides flavor and the ability to swim across the ocean/run around the world.


Journey's End
Looking at this dusty old journal brings back many memories. My cabal has fallen, and I have made no attempt to found a new one. I have seen kingdoms rise and fall under the flame of the Green Star. Each time it circles, I journey to where the shards fall. A sort of religious pilgrimage, I would suppose. I take none of the metal, knowing that a few foolhardy others wish to walk this path. Five centuries…has it really been that long? Does it matter anymore? For I am Kaurrek the Eternal, and I will fight the forces of evil until the day I die. To all who read this journal, whoever you may be, my tale ends here, and now, in this broken palace built over the place I once called home.

Kaurrek the Eternal
LG Illumian Fighter 2/Duskblade 4/Knight 4/Green Star Adept 10
Stats (32 point buy): Str 29, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Concentration 11 ranks, Craft (alchemy) 2 ranks, Decipher Script 2 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Jump 14 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 14 ranks, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 2 ranks, Knowledge (geography) 2 ranks, Knowledge (history) 2 ranks, Spellcraft 11 ranks
Feats: Monkey Grip, Combat Casting (duskblade bonus), Improved Sigil (Aesh), Weapon Focus (greatsword) (fighter bonus), Power Attack (fighter bonus), Cleave, Leap of the Heavens, Leap Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (greatsword)
Sigils: Aesh (+2 on Strength-based skill checks), Krau (+2 caster level)

Endgame. Results: +17 BAB, which is good enough to get 4 attacks. Fort +11 Ref +5, each one point worse than a straight duskblade. Will +15, which is better than the duskblade.

29 Strength without any enhancments, 35 Strength with a belt of giant strength, which is likely the natural state of things. That's equal to an old red dragon. An average hit with a normal Large greatsword will deal about 23-25 damage, without Power Attacking or whatever. You've got +31 to hit. Some of it can likely be traded into that sword blow. If you've got chill touch in your sword (which you should at all times, 16 hits of 1d6 damage for 1 spell slot) add 3 more. That sword also likely has enhancements. Most hits should probably be doing 30 points of damage on average. Your attack bonus and average damage-per-hit are both higher than the aforementioned old red dragon's. Who is Gargantuan.

Crunchy Bits:

Level Progression:

Duskblade
Duskblade
Fighter
Fighter
Duskblade
Duskblade
Green Star Adept
Knight
Green Star Adept
Green Star Adept
Knight
Green Star Adept
Green Star Adept
Green Star Adept
Knight
Green Star Adept
Green Star Adept
Green Star Adept
Green Star Adept
Knight


Customization:
You could swap Knight to Scout for Skirmish instead of Bulwark of Defense.
--
Or Knight to Fighter, and grab Weapon Specialization.
--
Take Sorcerer instead of Duskblade and grab the Armored Mage ACF in Complete Mage and combine with the scout for a lighter-armored variant.
--
Shaky (Flaw): Why would this dude be in ranged combat?

Weak Will (Flaw): Pulls your +15 Will save down to +12. AKA: Normal.


Strengths:

Melee combat. Especially one that involves lots of mooks. No one's getting past Kaurrek with the Bulwark of Defense class feature, and he is literally capable of dealing as much damage as a dragon. With the Cleave and Great Cleave feats, he'll slice through quite a few, and no one's going to arm 200 mooks with adamantine weapons anyways.

Leap of the Heavens and Leap Attack mean that he can jump up, over, and down onto an opponent, whether or not he's got a path to that person. A good Jump modifier means that he can jump his entire move, land, and attack.


Weaknesses:

Outside of combat, he's largely reduced to breaking down doors and such.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:45 PM
He's blue, duh buh dee duh buh dye
Class Progression & Background
Kao Lei was a simple human born in the far, icy north to a tribe called the Zifar. Their village is far removed from civilization, and any outsider would deem them primitive savages. However, very few know of the tribe's secret - knowledge of the Azure Star. In times of great need, past master of the Azure Star, or Great Protectors, call for another to join their ranks to protect the tribe and their secret knowledge. Until Kao Lei realizes he is the next Great Protector, he is an apprentice to the village elder because of his magnetic personality natural physical gifts. After Kao Lei embarks on his journey, he transforms from socialite to hermit, especially as he slowly becomes profoundly different from others.

Kao Lei and his tribesmen revere and pay homage to Lazo, the first Great Protector. All the Great Protectors that come after him are seen as manifestations of this great hero, and when a new Great Protector comes, he is seen as a direct channel to the rest.

(1) Savage Bard 1 - Able Learner, Melodic Casting

At this point in his life, Kao Lei is an apprentice to the Zafir village mystic.

(2) Savage Bard 2
(3) Brd 2/Paladin of Freedom 1 - Combat Casting

Kao Lei is named "Heaven Eater" in an ancient tradition carried out by his village. In the ceremony, Kao Lei receives a vision to travel to the resting place of Lazo, the first Great Protector of Zafir.

(4) Brd 2/Paladin of Freedom 2
(5) Savage Bard 3/Pal2
(6) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 1 - Snowflake Wardance

After completing his long journey, Kao Lei finds Lazo's shrine and eats his first "Piece of Heaven", after completing a trial. When he returns to the village with proof that he was chosen, he beings training under the village mystic to find the remaining pieces.

(7) Brd 3/Pal 2/ASA 1/Abjurant Champion 1
(8) Brd 3/Pal 2/ASA 1/Abjurant Champion 2
(9) Brd 3/Pal 2/ASA 1/Abjurant Champion 3 - Power Attack
(10) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 2/Abj 3
(11) Brd 3/Pal 2/ASA 2/Abj 3/Sublime Chord 1

Satisfied with his training the village mystic charges Kao Lei with find another Piece of Heaven. On his successful return, the village mystic reveals to him the secrets of the stars, which will aid him in finding the remaining pieces, which fall from the sky. Now, Kao Lei starts his real journey, and will return only as the next Great Protector of Zifar.

(12) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 3/Abj 3/SbC 1 - Minor Shapeshift
(13) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 4/Abj 3/SbC 1
(14) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 5/Abj 3/SbC 1
(15) Brd 3/Pal 2/ASA 4/Abj 3/SbC 1/Sacred Exorcist 1 - Divine Might

After acquiring three more pieces, Kao Lei finds that he must wait several years for the next piece to fall from the heavens. Since he cannot return home until he has completed his transformation, he travels the world with an accepting group of nomads. In exchange for protecting them, he asks the shaman to teach him what they know about the spirit world.

(16) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 6/Abj 3/SbC 1/ScE 1
(17) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 7/Abj 3/SbC 1/ScE 1
(18) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 8/Abj 3/SbC 1/ScE 1 - Arcane Strike
(19) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 9/Abj 3/SbC 1/ScE 1
(20) Brd 3/Pal 2/Azure Star Adept 10/Abj 3/SbC 1/ScE 1

Upon completion of his destined transformation, Kao Lei returns home, only to find that he is confronted with his greatest challenge yet. He finds that "Mostro del Ghiaccio" is coming, and must veer its course or defeat it as Great Protector of Zafir.

Statblock
Kao Lei, Great Protector
Male Human Medium Construct

Hit Dice: 4d6+11d8+5d10+20 (123 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 35 ft.
Armor Class: 35 (+10 armor, +4 Dex, +6 natural, +4 def, +1 insight), touch 19, flat-footed 31; runestaff of abjuration (shield), damage reduction 10/adamantine
Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+27
Full Attack*: +5 keen longsword +42/+37/+32/+27 melee (1d8+16/17-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Saves: Fort +25, Reflex +24, Will +31
Abilities: Str 32, Dex 18, Con -, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 30
Skills: Decipher Script +4, Diplomacy +11, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Knowledge (arch & eng) +4, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (geography) +4, Knowledge (religion) +9, Knowledge (planes) +12, Listen +12, Perform (dance) +33, Profession (astrologer) +5, Spellcraft +24, Tumble +18, Use Magic Device +33 (+40 to use scrolls)
Feats: Able Learner, Combat Casting, Snowflake Wardance, Arcane Strike, Minor Shapeshift, Melodic Casting, Power Attack, Divine Might
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Languages: Common, Draconic, Giant
*Includes attack bonus from Snowflake Wardance

Special:
Bardic Music (3/day): Inspire Courage (+1), Spellbreaker Song, Healing Hymn (+23)
Loresong (Su?) (10/day): As an immediate action, add +4 to any attack roll, save, or skill check.
Aura of Good (moderate)
Planar Inspiration (Su)
Detect Evil (Su) (at will)
Smite Evil (Su) (1/day): Add +10 to attack roll, +2 to damage vs. evil creature.
Divine Grace (Su): +10 to all saves.
Lay On Hands (Su): Heal up to 20 points of damage per day.
Exorcism (Su): Force a creature or spirit inhabiting the body out (+30 to overcome DC).
Turn Undead (Su) (13/day)
Natural Weapon (Ex): Slam (1d6+16).
Otherwordly Vision (Ex): Darkvision 60 ft.
Null Metabolism (Ex)
Emerald Perfection (Ex)
Rapid Repair (Ex)
Construct Traits (Ex) sans immunity to mind-affecting abilities.

Items:*
+5 keen longsword
+5 mithral breastplate
Circlet of rapid casting (x2)
Greatreach bracers (x2)
Anklet of translocation (x2)
+6 gloves of dexterity
+6 winged cloak of charisma (wings of flying)
+5 vest of resistance
Hand of the mage
Ring of greater counterspells (disintegrate)
+5 ring of protection
+6 belt of giant strength
Ring of enduring arcana
Greater crystal of life drinking (in longsword)
Crystal of alacrity (in armor)
Dusty rose prism ioun stone
Heward's handy haversack
Infinite scrollcase
Tome of leadership and influence +4
Manual of gainful exercise +4
Extend metamagic rod
Psychoactive skin of power dampening
Runestaff of abjuration
*Kao Lei also has 65,685g to spend on various magical items that will help him prepare for whatever he needs to face. With his great expertise, Kao Lei can use scrolls of 20th caster level with little difficulty.

Spells: Caster level 18, Save DCs 20 + spell level
7th (3/day) – greater teleport, limted wish
6th (5/day) – irresistible dance, azure (ruby) ray of reversal, freezing fog
5th (5/day) – dismissal, greater dispel magic, greater blinking, commune with nature
4th (6/day) – polymorph, greater invisibility, repair critical damage, orb of cold
3rd (2/day) – haste, ray of dizziness
2nd (5/day) – alter self, whirling blade, glitterdust, mirror image
1st (6/day) – improvisation, alarm, silent image, charm person


Combat Notes
Generally, Kao Lei will avoid entering combat until he is sufficiently prepared. The legend says that Great Protectors are all but invincible, hence it is a priority for Kao Lei to avoid being damaged.

Knowing disintegrate is a great danger for him, he always carries a ring of greater counterspells with to stop it.
He uses his runestaff of abjuration for increased physical protection (reap the bonus from Abjurant Champion to shield).
In almost every confrontation, he will use either greater blinking or mirror image.
Kao Lei makes heavy use of his improvisation spell for delivering heavy attacks or making sure he saves against a deadly spell.
He uses Minor Shapeshift as often as he can for temporary hit points.
If needed, Kao Lei can forego his Snowflake Wardance to deliver a heavy two-handed blow with his longsword.

While in combat, Kao Lei does everything he can to devastate his opponent in melee. If he cannot, he falls back on his orb of cold spell.

Every time he full attacks, he activates Divine Might.
On charges or single strikes, he uses his loresong ability.
If he faces many opponents, Kao Lei tries to catch as many as he can with whirling blade.
He has multiple usable items for agility on the battlefield, such as anklets of translocation and greatreach bracers.



Meta-build
Instead of "Green Star" Adept, I'm calling it "Azure Star" Adept. No mechanical differences, just a flavor change.

Viability via survival:

Surviving from 1st to about 9th level was harder for Kao Lei than the average adventurer, but not impossible.
In the early levels (1-5), he simply acts as a support bard, getting into the front ranks if necessary.
In the low-mid levels (6-10), he picks up a lot of speed, getting Snowflake Wardance and filling out with strong Abjurant Champion levels. After this point, he is a respectable Gish.


Use of variants and other considerations:

I used the Savage Bard variant from Unearthed Arcana strictly for flavor reasons. The extra fort save helps a bit, but it makes meeting skill requirements a tad harder with Decipher Script not being a class skill. Either way, there is no mechanical necessity for it.
The Paladin of Freedom variant is used mostly for flavor, because I wanted to avoid having the character go through a radical alignment change (chaotic to lawful) so early in his career.
I didn't want to spend a fantastic amount of time deciding what scrolls and other one-shot magic items he would be carrying. However, he can succeed using any scroll sans rolling a natural 1, so he can prepare himself however he wants.
I don't use the capstone ability in any particular special way, aside from dumping constitution, but it was important for the character's story. The only special way I could've taken advantage of it is by taking the pathetic (constitution) flaw, but I wanted to stay away from that.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:46 PM
I wonder what would happen if he cast Stone to Flesh...
Glorgen, The Stonehearted

Statblock:
{table=head]Class | Str | Dex | Con | Int | Wis | Cha | BAB | Base Fort | Base Ref | Base Will | Feats | Class Features | Eldritch Blast | Skills | Invocations
Warlock | 16 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Combat Casting | Eldritch Blast 1d6 | 1d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 4 Knowledge (The Planes) 4 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 | Eldritch Glaive
Warlock | 16 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | | Detect Magic | | Knowledge (Arcana) 5 Knowledge (The Planes) 5 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 1 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding
Warlock | 16 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Power Attack | Damage Reduction 1/Cold Iron, Eldritch Blast 2d6 | 2d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 6 Knowledge (The Planes) 6 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding
Warlock | 17 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 4 | | Deceive Item | | Knowledge (Arcana) 7 Knowledge (The Planes) 7 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 1 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance
Warlock | 17 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 4 | | Eldritch Blast 3d6 | 3d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 8 Knowledge (The Planes) 8 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance
Enlightened Spirit | 17 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 6 | Battle Caster | Aura of Courage, Aura of Menace, Spirit Blast | | Knowledge (Arcana) 9 Knowledge (The Planes) 9 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 2 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast
Enlightened Spirit | 17 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 7 | | Eldritch Blast +1d6, Spirit Armour (+1 AC) | 4d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 10 Knowledge (The Planes) 10 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 4 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast
Enlightened Spirit | 18 | 14 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 7 | | Celestial Flight | | Knowledge (Arcana) 11 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 6 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight
Green Star Adept | 19 | 13 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 7 | Flyby Attack | Damage Reduction 1/Adamantine, Improved Caster Level, Starmetal Dependancy, Starmetal Rigor 1 | | Knowledge (Arcana) 12 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 7 Concentrate 1 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight
Green Star Adept | 19 | 13 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 8 | | Natural Attack, Unnatural Metabolism +2 | | Knowledge (Arcana) 13 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 8 Concentrate 2 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen
Green Star Adept | 19 | 13 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 8 | | Fortification (25%) | | Knowledge (Arcana) 14 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 9 Concentrate 3 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen
Green Star Adept | 21 | 13 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 8 | 3 | 3 | 9 | Medium Armour Proficiency | Otherworldly Vision, Starmetal Rigor 2 | 5d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 15 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 10 Concentrate 4 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen
Green Star Adept | 21 | 13 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 8 | 3 | 3 | 9 | | Unatural Metabolism +4 | | Knowledge (Arcana) 16 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 11 Concentrate 5 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen
Green Star Adept | 21 | 13 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 9 | 4 | 4 | 10 | | Fortification (50%) | | Knowledge (Arcana) 17 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 12 Concentrate 6 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene
Green Star Adept | 23 | 12 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 10 | 4 | 4 | 10 | Quicken Spell-like Ability | Null Metabolism, Starmetal Rigor 4 | | Knowledge (Arcana) 18 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 13 Concentrate 7 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene
Green Star Adept | 24 | 12 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 11 | 4 | 4 | 11 | | Unatural Metabolism +6 | 6d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 19 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 14 Concentrate 8 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene
Green Star Adept | 24 | 12 | 10 | 14 | 12 | 12 | 11 | 5 | 5 | 11 | | Fortification (75%) | | Knowledge (Arcana) 20 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 15 Concentrate 9 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene
Green Star Adept | 26 | 11 | - | 14 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 5 | 5 | 12 | Maximize Spell-like Ability | Emerald Perfection, Rapid Repair, Starmetal Rigor 6 | | Knowledge (Arcana) 21 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 16 Concentrate 10 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene, Charm
Enlightened Spirit | 26 | 11 | - | 14 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 5 | 5 | 13 | | Eldritch Blast +2d6, tongues | 7d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 21 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 20 Concentrate 10 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene, Charm
Warlock | 26 | 11 | - | 14 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 6 | 6 | 14 | | | 8d6 | Knowledge (Arcana) 22 Knowledge (The Planes) 11 Decipher Script 2 Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 2 Knowledge (Geography) 2 Knowledge (History) 2 Use Magic Device 23 Concentrate 10 | Eldritch Glaive, Entropic Warding, Baleful Utterance, Sprit Blast, Celestial Flight, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene, Charm, Vitriolic Blast
[/table]

Backstory:
Lost Son(Levels 1-5)
A hated mix of dwarf and fey, Glorgen's fey ancestry showed itself at a young age, developing powers which were wrong and unnatural. Forced from his home, he wandered into the lands, taking his anger out on those he found, living only for himself. Life was harsh, and Glorgen learnt knowledge is power, and people pay for knowledge, learning bits of obscure lore, learning the scribes tongue and ciphers, further aiding in his misdeeds

Finding Redemption (6-8)
Living a life of hatred could only last so long. Caught and imprisoned, Glorgen was denied his power, and in this place found a friend in one of the mage guardians. Learning friendship, Glorgen became a changed dwarf, swearing to aid those in need and right the wrongs he had caused. Release from his captivity, he travelled the lands bringing hope and courage to those of virtue, fear and terror to those of vice.

Return to Stone (9-18)
Flying the world, Glorgen realized that while he was aiding others, he was leaving his dwarven roots behind. Turning to the stone, he found stories of a rock which fell from the sky, making one more earthy and solid. Tracking down a chunk, he underwent a long ritual, becoming part of the rock, continuing in his quest of self redemption

Combat Style:
Levels 1-7
Two choices here, sit back and blast or walk forwards and lay into them with your glaive. At level 6 pick up some Mithral Fullplate to give you some defence to make up for the low dex. Does unfortunately reduce your to-hit, so might need to power attack for less, but they are touch attacks. YMMV
Levels 8+
Now you can fly and hover. Sit above the enemy and slash away with the glaive, power attacking as much as you can. At level 12 hitting this suddenly becomes so much easier as suddenly no proficiency problem with the armour. As time goes on you can quicken and maximize the glaive to increase damage output, but tactic mostly remains the same. When you hit level 14, make use of Flee the Scene to teleport into adventitious places to start glaiving away, or to get out of a tight spot caused by your low HP

Equipment:
From level 6, Mithral Full Plate. Other than that, equipment is up to the individual as nothing requires specific items for it. Normal defensive increasers are useful, are wands when combined with the Warlocks deceive item ability. At level 18, grab some wands of repair to get some self healing, easy enough by that stage to UMD them to heal

Weaknesses:
Green Star Adept sucks... Wants to be a gish, but lack the BAB to support it. Reduced amount you can power attack for. Caster level is also mediocre, so opponent with spell resistance are rather hard to hurt until you get your greater invocation, at level 20.
Also the build ran out of steam at level 18, there wasn't anything else to really take, so just tacked on another level of warlock for greater invocation and Enlightened Spirit for extra damage

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:50 PM
Presenting the FullStarmetal Alchemist!
Xiaojing Wu
Starmetal Alchemist

Synopsis
I decided to go against the expectations of the prestige class as written, namely not creating a Warrior/Arcanist. I chose to focus as much as possible on spellcasting and to make things interesting, elected to use Wu Jen to start off the build. The addition of Anima mage explores the limitations of the practiced binder feat. You will note that the Vestige options are far more restricted than a true Binder/Arcanist, however I think that it adds some spiritual flavour to the Wu Jen concept, as well as offering some occasional versatility.

The slow casting progression of the Green Star Adept is offset slightly by the abilities it offers. My idea was to focus on debuffs and debilitating effects so that the GSA and his allies could then capitalise on their physical capabilities. I also gave consideration to the needs of an adventuring party over the course of a campaign. I think that this build has plenty of strengths outside of combat in order to assist a band of questing heroes.

I deliberately avoided infinite loops and common rules exploits. This build would go great with Archmage...Except for the fact that it would break the core unless I made suboptimal choices. I also deliberately avoided spending WBL on specific gear for the build to be able function. This was to highlight the basics of the build, not to confuse it's power with the power of items, which are subject to DM discretion. Atrribute items are nice to have though...Item modifications and skill synergies are presented in statistics blocks.

This character is capable of entering the Wish economy at 7th level via the Lesser Spirit Ally spell. Build progression and wealth assumptions do not factor this. While I allow a certain latitude in games I run (to a point...), I recognise this is not the case for everyone. If I were to play this character in a game, I think it would be fun between levels 3 and15. The journey is more important than the destination, don't you think? Not quite a Batman wizard, but possessing some versatility, I would rate it a Tier 2 or 3. High Tier 2 or even low Teir 1 if the Spirit Ally chain is used to it's fullest potential.

Resources used. PH, DMG, CArc, CM, ToM, Bo9S, MiC, LM, HoH, CS, BoVD and OA.

Prologue
Wu remembers very little of his early childhood. He thinks his parents may have been hunters or traders living in a forested valley at the base of the mountains. When he was very young, a stranger wandered into the mountain camp where his relatives spent the harsh winters, trading the goods procured during the warmer months for tools and supplies. Wu remembers that day with perfect clarity. The stranger was a cause for much concern, the mountain folk were worried that she was a thief or bandit. Some even claimed that she was a depraved monk, a witch capable of calling upon evil spirits.

The mountain folk's suspicions were justified. The stranger was indeed a battle-hardened nomad and witch. Her name was Sun Xiao Yin, master of the Desert Wind, a keeper of mysteries, an Enilghtened Fist. The Spirits had guided her to this remote village, they had told her that she might find an apprentice here, one worthy of her knowledge. After residing in the village for a time and calling upon the Spirits for further guidance, she chose Wu as her apprentice. Wu's parents were initially reluctant to release him to the care of a Nomad, but the gold she offered in exchange was a great fortune to them. Wu soon left with the inscrutable Xiao Yin and his education began soon after.

Sun Xiao Yin was a harsh instructor, impatient and prone to fits of rage. Wu struggled to comprehend the vast knowledge Xiao Yin foisted upon him. Meditation, martial arts, meditation, lectures on the spirit world, meditation, internal and external alchemy, medidation, spellcasting fundamentals and yet more meditation, Wu struggled under her incessant curriculum. Over time, it became apparent that Wu's aptitudes lay solely with the Arcane, much to Xiao Yin's dissapointment. As the years passed, Xiao Yin's lessons became less and less frequent and she returned to adventuring. Wu was left to continue his own education, with only his masters secluded library of scrolls and tomes to guide him.

During one of of his master's sojourns, Wu engaged himself in meditation. He focused on a bauble his master had recovered from one of her many adventures, a crystal ball. The power of the object had faded long ago, he had been told, but the object had an indescribable pull on Wu. He spent hours gazing at the object, assessing it's shape, attempting to understand it's form and intrinsic nature. He came to a realisation as he gazed into the ball's centre; the ball was looking back at him! He laughed as he recognised his own reflection in the crystal, then sighed in relief. His reflection grinned at him maliciously, it's toothy grin sparkling hypnotically...

Wu awakened to the angry shouts of his master. She had returned to find Wu in a dazed state. His features were sallowed and gaunt, his teeth encrusted with gemstones and he had been mumbling in a strange language, with a voice that was not his own. She had dismissed the spirit that had possessed him and then he had collapsed. Wu was perplexed, he had no memory of these events and his excuses did not placate his master. Sun Xiao Yin then became uncharacteristically calm, she declared that Wu's apprenticeship was over and that he was to leave immediately. Wu bowed respectfully, collected his few belongings and set off on his own.

In respect of his master, he took the name Xiao Jing Wu. He travelled in search of adventure and knowledge. It was not long before he encountered companions with similar interests. They were happy to share their journeys with a spellcaster, and Wu was glad for the protection they offered. He continued his meditations and communion with the spirit world. Some Spirits offered him protection and guidance, others only spoke to him in dreams. He found that he was able to reach out and contact some of the forgotten Spirits, they were eager to give him their guidance. Despite his efforts, he was not able to contact the powerful Spirit that had first spoke to him in his master's crystal ball.


Xiaojing Wu: Male Human Wu Jen; Medium humanoid; HD 1d4; 4 hp;Init +1;Spd 30ft; AC 11, Touch 11, flat footed 10; BA +1; Grp +1; Attack +1 melee longspear (1d8+1 20/x3), +1 melee touch (1d6 fire) or +1 ranged crossbow(1d8 19-20); SA Halo of Flame; SQ Watchful spirit, Taboo; AL NE; SV Fort 0, Ref +1, Will +2; Str 12, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 12

Skills and Feats: Autohypnosis +1, Concentration +4, Craft (Alchemy) +5, Decipher Script +5, Knowlegdge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (History) +5, Knowledge (Local) +5, Knowledge (Nature) +5, Knowledge (Planar) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Intimidate +5, Spellcraft +8. Languages: Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Ignan, Auran. Feats: Extend Spell, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit), Bind Vestige.

IL 1. Maneuver : Vanguards Strike.

EBL 1. Check +2 . Save DC 11. Current Pact: Aym, Halo of Flame.

CL 1. Spells Memorised; 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Dancing lights; 1:Sleep, Silent Image. Save DC 14 + spell level.

Gear

Backpack, waterskin, rations, bedroll,sack, flint and steel, candles, map case, chalk. Spell component pouch and spellbook. Longspear, dagger and Light Crossbow. Bolt case with bolts. (modified Wizard starting package, the Wu Jen description lacks one)

Spellbook
0 level. All. Taken From lists in CArc and CM
1st level. Fiery Eyes, Ghost Light, Scales of the Lizard, Shield, Silent Image, Sleep, True Strike
Abilities and tactics

First level is tough. Low defences, hp and two 1st level spells. Providing you can gather some intelligence about an adventure, try and adjust your prepared spells accordingly. Stay at range, behind cover and make the most of sleep against typical foes. Use your Initiative reroll to help prevent a beatdown before your turn.

Ghost light causes foes in a mobile 30' burst to become shaken, setting you up for an intimidancer combo in later levels, but is not much use to start with. Foes resistant to mind affecting spells should be set alight with fiery eyes or Ayms vestige if you are feeling reckless. Box in mindless foes with silent image, or use it to give yourself and your alies cover (concealment).

To conserve spells and prolong the workday, Coup de grace and Aid another when appropriate. Binding Aym for the halo of flame might be a good melee deterrent, otherwise look to Naberius for a great list of abilities to choose from. The only low profile Vestige at this level is Leraje, keep that in mind if there is a need for subtlety. As an amateur Binder, you do not get to turn off abilities when they become inconvenient. Your Vanguards strike ability works best when coupled with a melee touch attack.

Level 5 Snapsot

Wu awakened with a start. He had heard it's voice in his dreams! Acerarak was it's name and it had been watching Wu's progress for some time. It had been almost a decade since he first encounted the Spirit in the cystal ball, but he responded to it's call immediately. His understanding of Binding had grown considerably over the years, as had his Arcane abilities. Barely containing himself, he eagerly prepared the binding ritual and began the summons.

Dark power washed over Wu as he was faced with the image of Acerarak. It told him secrets, threatened Wu with annihalation yet at the same time it promised him power and immortality. Acerarak instructed Wu to turn himself into a phylactery, a living vessel for his spirit. Such a vessel could contain far more power than any mortal form, it would also be capable of hosting more powerful Vestiges. Wu listened carefully as the Vestige explained how he could bring about this metamorphosis...

Xiaojing Wu: Male Human Wu Jen 3/Anima Mage 2; Medium humanoid; HD 5d4; 14 hp;Init +1; Spd 30ft; AC 11, Touch 11, flat footed 10; BA +3; Grp +3; Attack +3 melee longspear (1d8+1 20/x3), +3 ranged Fire Shuriken (3d6+1 19-20) or +3 ranged crossbow(1d8 19-20); SA Faster Ability Healing; SQ Watchful spirit, Taboo x2, Spell Secret (Extend Apparition); AL NE; SV Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +5; Str 12, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 12

Skills and Feats: Autohypnosis +5, Bluff +2, Concentration +8, Craft (Alchemy) +6, Decipher Script +6, Knowlegdge (Arcana) +12, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) +5, Knowledge (Geography) +5, Knowledge (History) +5, Knowledge (Local) +5, Knowledge (Nature) +9, Knowledge (Planar) +10, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Intimidate +6, Spellcraft +12. Languages: Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Ignan, Auran. Feats: Extend Spell, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit), Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige.

IL 2. Maneuvers (encounter) : Vanguards Strike (Strike).

EBL 7. Check +8 . Save DC 14. Current Pact: Naberius, Faster Ability Healing.

CL 5. Spells Memorised; 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Presdigitation; 1: Elemental Burst (Water), Elemental Burst (Metal), Ghost Light, Silent Image, Sleep; 2: (Extended) Apparition, Lahm's Finger Darts, Rope Trick; 3: Heart of Water, Stinking Cloud
Save DC 14 + spell level.

Gear
Pearl of Power (1st), Bracers of the Entangling Blast, Hewards Fortifying Bedroll, Fire Shuriken. 2000gp worth of assorted swag, including Starmetal fragments, potions and scrolls.

Spellbook (PHB, CArc, CM and BoVD) 74 pages.
0 level. All. Taken From lists in CArc and CM
1st level. Charm Person*, Climbing Tree*, Comprehend Languages*, Elemental Burst, Fiery Eyes, Ghost Light, Hypnotism*, Scales of the Lizard, Seething Eyebane, Shield, Silent Image, Secret Signs, Sleep, True Strike
2nd level. Alter Self, Apparition, Detect Thoughts*, Fire Shuriken, Heart of Air*, Invisibility*, Lahm's Finger Darts, Locate Object*, Mirror Image*, Rope Trick*, Torrent of Tears*
3rd Level. Absorb Mind, Commune with Lesser Spirit*, Heart of Water*, Magnetic Body*, Mount*, Stinking Cloud
*Researched or bought spells as suggested on p198 DMG and p179 PHB, taking most expensive option. Wu spends a fair proportion of his wealth (at this level, around 1500gp) on his arsenal of spells. Just as a Warrior might on arms and armour. Corrupt spells are aquired through Wu Jen bonus spells. Myriad Vestiges have awakened Wu's hunger for dark and forbidden knowledge.

Abilities and tactics
Information Gathering: Commune with lesser Spirit may be able to impart basic information about an area and creatures that reside nearby. Absorb Mind can provide detailed information from a fresh corpse. Detect thoughts, Locate Object, Detect Magic and Detect Poison are situational, but always useful. Charm Person, Hypnotism, Comprehend Languages and Secret signs are great for facilitating communication.

Mobility: Mount, Alter Self and Heart of Water offer different movement modes. Additionally, the Heart of water spell can be expended for a short duration Freedom of Movement. Climbing Tree acts as a ladder or as cover, useful if noone in the party has ranks in climb.

Combat: Lahm's Finger Darts deal auto-hit dexterity damage. If this interacts with Bracers of the Entangling Blast it's great. If it does not, it is still great. Corrupt spells like this have their corruption cost eased by making a pact with Naberius. Apparition is extended because of Wu's spell secret. He takes the appearance of a Starmetal green version of himself. All enemies who see him must save vs. will or be shaken. He will occasionally use Ghost Light to create glowing, green duplicates of himself, providing another save vs. shaken effect. Elemental Burst is typically used with the Engtangling Blast his bracers provide. Sleep has almost become obsolete at this level, but is occasionally useful. Stinking Cloud is fantastic for action denial. Fire Shurikens last until thrown, so Wu builds up a supply between adventures. Magnetic Body is thematic, but its use is situational. Wu will prepare this if he expects trouble from weapon weilding humanoids.

Protection: The Elemental Heart line of spells grant a light fortification bonus when running together. They can also be expended to produce useful buffs. Silent Image, Invisibility, Alter Self and Rope Trick need no explanation. With his magic bedroll, Wu can recover his spells within a standard duration Rope trick.

At this level, Wu has access to 4th level Vestiges. Unfortunately, Wu's access is limited to one power from one Vestige. Wu may be able to Exploit his low level pacts for an additional spell, but he would be better off taking the pact. Great choices include Naberius for his ability healing, Andromalius for his location and see invisible abilties, Buer for healing and Tenebrous for the ability to rebuke undead. Consider your needs and synergies with spells, before comitting to a pact for the day.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:52 PM
And now for Part II!
Level 10 Snapshot

Wu had followed the instructions of his dark master. He had sought out the Starmetal required for his ascendancy and begun the arduous ritual of transformation. His tongue and teeth were stained green from drinking the elixers. Even his skin and hair had taken on an unhealthy tint. But he was resolved in his quest and already Aceraraks promises of power had borne fruit. He could command lesser Vestiges with ease and his Arcane might was astonishing. The powers of nature did his bidding and he ruled over his physical limitations. He could go longer without food, drink and sleep. His body would shrug off minor injuries, blades would barely penetrate his skin, when they did he hardly felt pain. He was resolute in his desire for immortality and none would get in his way...

Level 10 snapshot
Xiaojing Wu: Male Human Wu Jen 4/Anima Mage 4/Green Star Adept 2; Medium humanoid; HD 8d4 +2d8; 35 hp; Init +1; Spd 30ft; AC 11, Touch 10, flat footed 11; BA +6; Grp +6; Attack +6 melee Slam (1d6+1 20/x2) or +5 ranged Fire Shuriken (3d6+1 19-20); SA Faster Ability Healing, Slam; SQ Damage Reduction 2/Adamantine, Starmetal Rigor, Starmetal Dependancy, Unnatural Metabolism, Watchful spirit, Taboo x2, Spell Secret (Extend Apparition); AL NE; SV Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +5; Str 13, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 20 (22), Wis 10, Cha 12

Skills and Feats: Autohypnosis +7, Bluff +5, Concentration +20, Craft (Alchemy) +9, Decipher Script +8, Knowlegdge (Arcana) +19, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) +8, Knowledge (Geography) +8, Knowledge (History) +8, Knowledge (Local) +7, Knowledge (Nature) +12, Knowledge (Planar) +15, Knowledge (Religion) +9, Intimidate +8, Spellcraft +19. Languages: Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Ignan, Auran, Aquan. Feats: Extend Spell, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit), Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Combat Casting, Chain Spell.

Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories. Swift Concentration

IL 5. Maneuver (encounter) : Vanguards Strike (Strike), (Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind) Action Before Thought(Counter)

EBL 9. Check +10 . Save DC 15. Current Pact: Naberius, Faster Ability Healing. Pact Phylactery (Acerarak, Liches Energy Immunity)

ECL 10 (9). Spells Memorised; 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Presdigitation; 1: Elemental Burst (Metal), Elemental Burst (water), Ghost Light, Scales of the Lizard, Shield, Silent Image; 2: Alter Self, Detect Thoughts, Heart of Air, Lahm's Finger Darts x 2; Rope Trick 3: Heart of Water, Major Image, (Extended) Protection from Arrows, Stinking Cloud; 4: Greater Invisibility, Heart of Earth, Solid Fog; 5: (Extended, Chained) Apparition, Heart of Fire. Save DC 16 + spell level.

Gear
Headband of Intellect + 2, Boccobs Blessed Book, Tunic of Steady Spellcasting, Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind, Pact Phylactery, Pearl of Power (1st), Bracers of the Entangling Blast, Hewards Fortifying Bedroll, Fire Shuriken. 1850gp of assorted swag, including consumables, spell foci and components, alchemical items and starmetal fragments. 2 Starmetal Elixers 2000gp (consumed).

Spellbook 134 pages
0 level. All. Taken From lists in CArc and CM
1st level. Accuracy*, Animate Water*, Animate Wood*, Charm Person*, Climbing Tree*, Comprehend Languages*, Elemental Burst, Fiery Eyes, Ghost Light, Hypnotism*, Jet of Steam*, Magic Missile*, Melt*, Scales of the Lizard, Seething Eyebane, Shield, Silent Image, Secret Signs, Sleep, Summon Monster 1*, True Strike, Unseen Servant*
2nd level. Alter Self, Apparition, Blackrot*, Detect Thoughts*, Fire Shuriken, Heart of Air*, Ice Blast*, Invisibility*, Lahm's Finger Darts, Locate Object*, Mirror Image*, Protection From Arrows*, Pyrotechnics*, Resist Energy*, Rope Trick*, Torrent of Tears*, Wall of Gloom*
3rd Level. Absorb Mind, Commune with Lesser Spirit*, Dispel Magic*, Heart of Water*, Magic Circle Against Good/Evil/Chaos/Law*, Magnetic Body*, Major Image, Mount*, Plant Growth, Stinking Cloud, Thornskin*
4th Level. Absorb Strength, Dismissal, Greater Invisibility*, Heart of Earth*, Lesser Spirit Binding, Minor Creation*, Polymorph*, Rusting Grasp*, Solid Fog, Wall of Bones*
5th Level. Heart of Fire*, Power Leech, Spirit Self*, Teleport
*Researched or bought spells as suggested on p198 DMG and p179 PHB. Wu spends a fair proportion of his gold (5,150gp) on his arsenal of spells. Just as a Warrior might on arms and armour. Corrupt spells are aquired through Wu Jen bonus spells. Myriad Vestiges have awakened Wu's hunger for dark and forbidden knowledge.

Abilities and tactics

Summoning/Calling. The Spirit Binding line of spells is great. Fey, Elementals, Incorporeal Undead and native Astral Denizens (not Githyanki for example) are valid targets, as are specific listed Spirits in OA. Wu can Call creatures up to 8HD, otherwise the spell functions like Planar Binding. Wu typically attempts to bind creatures for a long term contract. Having them search for Starmetal or act as a guardians for his base of operations (applying extend spell to increase duration). He will also summon a guardian creature to act as a bodyguard on occasion. For a wilderness adventure, this is typically fey. For a Dungeon crawl, this is undead. Planar adventures, it will be an Astral denizen. Templated creatures can be exceptionally powerful and versatile, such as Ghost, Half Fey and Evolved Undead to name a few. Unfortunately, it is difficult (but not impossible) to bind them. Because of the buffs required to succeed in an opposed Charisma test, it is typically a downtime spell. Assume Wu has one powerful spellcasting Fey or Ghost ally at any given time, in addition to the numerous less powerful Spirits searching for Starmetal and protecting his home.

Buffs. At first glance, Power Leech appears to be an attack spell. Wu uses it as a Buff Spell. Summon a Celestial/Fiendish critter, then drain it's Wisdom/Charisma/Constitution for a 10 mins/level enhancement bonus. Or target an incapacitated foe for the Intelligence. Absorb Strength is a great Strength and Constitution buff. It becomes more powerful depending on the targets attributes, so don't waste it on a small or weak critter. The Elemental Heart line of spells provide numerous buffs. Increased jump/flight, water breathing, 20 temp hp, increased swim/flight/land speed and fire resistance. They provide immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks. Additionally they can be expended as an immediate action to produce a feather fall/freedom of movement/stoneskin/fire shield effect. Spirit Self provides Incoporeality, which works well with the DR provided by GSA and spells. In addition, many Vestiges can offer pacts that provide resistances/immunities.

Mobility. Mount is now highly effective. Teleport has come on line.

Attacks. Lahm's Finger Darts now deals 5d4 dex at 200ft. Solid Fog and Wall of Bones are great for action denial. Dismissal is invaluable against extraplanar threats. Apparition can now be Chained, causing up to 10 additional save vs. shaken effects (depending on the size of the party).

Utility. Polymorph, versatile in form and function. The inherent features of GSA should carry over to polymorph forms. Minor Creation, Wood Shape, Plant Growth to name a few. Wu probably has made himself a secret lair by repeated castings of Wood Shape. He would have then cast plant growth on the surrounding area until it is effectively accessable only by teleport (or slash and burn). Wu has access to an ability from up to a 5th level Vestige. Naberius and Acerarak are of the most use to him, but there are many others available. He makes no effort to disguise his connection to the 'Spirits.'

Level 15 Snapshot

Power! Wu craved power! Had Acerarak lied to him? Was he simply a puppet? He had spent year after year searching out the Starmetal, but his ascendancy was still out of reach. At every turn he faced another hurdle or barrier. Each time he struggled though these challenges, another, more difficult obstacle presented itself. Acerarak was no help, the Vestige taunted and cajoled him in equal measure. Wu's heart had become as hard as the Starmetal he now struggled to swallow. None would stop him! He had sacrficed so much for this! It was too late to turn back now!

Xiaojing Wu: Male Human Wu Jen 4/Anima Mage 5/Green Star Adept 6; Medium humanoid; HD 9d4 +6d8; 55 hp; Init +1; Spd 60ft; AC 12, Touch 10, flat footed 12; BA +10; Grp +10; Attack +10 melee Slam (1d6+3 20/x2) or +10/+5 ranged Fire Shuriken (3d6+2 19-20); SA Slam; SQ Damage Reduction 6/Adamantine, Immunity to Cold and Electricity, Negative Energy Healing, Fortification (50%), Otherworldly Vision, Starmetal Rigor, Starmetal Dependancy, Unnatural Metabolism, Watchful spirit, Taboo x2, Spell Secret (Extend Apparition); AL NE; SV Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +13; Str 14, Dex 11, Con 10, Int 21 (27), Wis 10, Cha 12 (16)

Skills and Feats: Appraise +7, Autohypnosis +7, Bluff +12, Concentration +25, Craft (Alchemy) +10, Decipher Script +8, Knowlegdge (Arcana) +23, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) +8, Knowledge (Geography) +10, Knowledge (History) +10, Knowledge (Local) +6, Knowledge (Nature) +12, Knowledge (Planar) +15, Knowledge (Religion) +9, Intimidate +13, Spellcraft +23. Languages: Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Ignan, Auran, Aquan, Terran, Infernal, Abyssal. Feats: Extend Spell, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit), Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Combat Casting, Chain Spell, Persistant Spell, Practiced Binder.

Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories. Swift Concentration

IL 7. Maneuvers (encounter) : Vanguards Strike (Strike), (Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind) Action Before Thought(Counter)

EBL 10. Check +13 . Save DC 16. Current Pact: Acerarak, Liches Energy Immunity, Negative Energy Healing. Pact Phylactery (Naberius, Fast Ability Healing, Persuasive Words)

Spell like abilities: Expeditious Retreat CL 5 at will, Disguise Self CL 5 3/day, Control Undead CL 5 3/day (DC 14).

ECL 16 (12). Spells Memorised; 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Presdigitation; 1: Elemental Burst (water), Ghost Light, Scales of the Lizard, Shield, Silent Image, True Strike; 2: Blackrot, Heart of Air, Lahm's Finger Darts x 2, Mirror Image, Rope Trick 3: (Extended) Alter Self, Heart of Water, Magnetic Body, (Extended) Protection from Arrows, Stinking Cloud, Thornskin; 4: Enervation, Greater Invisibility, Heart of Earth, Solid Fog, Wall of Bones; 5: (Extended, Chained) Apparition, Blade of Deception, Heart of Fire, Teleport; 6: (Extended) Power Leech, Repulsion, True Seeing; Save DC 18 + spell level.

Gear
Headband of Intellect +6, Hewards Handy Haversack, Orange Ioun Stone, Mask of Lies, Teeth of Dahlver Nar (Acerarak, Marchosias, Ronove), Ring of Arcane Supremacy, Headband of Intellect + 2 (stowed away or buffing a Spirit Ally), Boccobs Blessed Book, Tunic of Steady Spellcasting, Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind, Pact Phylactery, Pearl of Power (1st) and (2nd), Bracers of the Entangling Blast, Hewards Fortifying Bedroll, Fire Shuriken. Over 20,000gp of assorted swag, including consumables, spell foci and components, alchemical items and starmetal fragments. 6 Starmetal Elixers 6000gp (consumed).

Spellbook 269 pages
0 level. All. Taken From lists in CArc and CM
1st level. Accuracy*, Animate Water*, Animate Wood*, Charm Person*, Climbing Tree*, Comprehend Languages*, Elemental Burst, Fiery Eyes, Ghost Light, Hypnotism*, Jet of Steam*, Magic Missile*, Melt*, Scales of the Lizard, Seething Eyebane, Shield, Silent Image, Secret Signs, Sleep, Summon Monster 1*, True Strike, Unseen Servant*, Ventriloquism*
2nd level. Alter Self, Apparition, Blackrot*, Detect Thoughts*, Fire Shuriken, Heart of Air*, Ice Blast*, Invisibility*, Kiss of the Toad*, Lahm's Finger Darts, Lightning Blade*, Locate Object*, Mirror Image*, Misdirection*, Protection From Arrows*, Pyrotechnics*, Resist Energy*, Rope Trick*, See invisibility*, Summon Monster 2*, Torrent of Tears*, Wall of Gloom*, Whispering Wind*
3rd Level. Absorb Mind, Bestow Curse*, Commune with Lesser Spirit*, Dispel Magic*, Elemental Eye*, Heart of Water*, Illusory Script*, Magic Circle Against Good/Evil/Chaos/Law*, Magnetic Body*, Major Image, Mount*, Plant Growth, Remove Curse*, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster 3*, Thornskin*
4th Level. Absorb Strength, Confusion*, Dismissal, Enervation*, Fire Trap*, Greater Invisibility*, Heart of Earth*, Lesser Spirit Binding, Locate Creature*, Minor Creation*, Polymorph*, Rain of Spines*, Rusting Grasp*, Solid Fog, Summon Monster 4*, Symbol of Pain*, Symbol of Sleep*, Wall of Bones*
5th Level. Blade of Deception, Ethereal Jaunt*, Heart of Fire*, Fabricate*, Power Leech, Spirit Self*, Stone Shape*, Teleport, Telekenisis, Wall of Stone*
6th Level. Consume Likeness, Control Weather, Greater Dispel Magic*, Spirit Binding, Symbol of Fear*, Transfix, True Seeing*, Veil*
*Researched or bought spells as suggested on p198 DMG and p179 PHB. Wu spends a fair proportion of his gold (13,290gp) on his arsenal of spells. Just as a Warrior might on arms and armour. Corrupt spells are aquired through Wu Jen bonus spells. Myriad Vestiges have awakened Wu's hunger for dark and forbidden knowledge.

Abilities and tactics

Summons/Callings. Now up to 16 HD. Incredibly powerful creatures can now be called, many of which have spellcasting far superior to Wu. Negotiating services is now much easier when buffed. His lairs are well protected and he typically has a powerful, spellcasting bodyguard at all times.

Buffs. An extended Power Leech (chained via vestige metamagic) can grant an enhancement bonus of over 500 to an attribute. The only impediment is finding a number of creatures with high attributes to drain. Summoned (not called) monsters help, as do incapacitated prisoners. The actual benefit is likely to be in the range of +40-100. Memorising spells with a buffed intelligence is possible due to Hewards Bedroll. Consume Likeness is a great disguise spell, once cast it has a permenant effect that can be called on as a standard action. 2 powers from a Vestige are now available, some of the immunities are fantastic. True Seeing has come online.

Attacks. A chained telekenisis grapple can shut down an encounter. Blade of deception can gradually lower saving throws. Symbols are effective in an encounter, but also serve as useful traps. Repulsion Keeps the melee beatsticks away. Transfix is effectively a mass Hold Person with a potentially permenant duration. Great for encouraging Power Leech targets to hold still. Many lower leve spells have been researched, providing Wu with a versatile repetoire to call upon. Wu's Ring of Arcane Supremacy allows a reroll on spell penetration tests.

Utility. Greatly enhanced. Wall of stone and Stone shape further fortifies Wu's lair. Fabricate and Control Weather need no explaination. Many lower level utilities are available, as are the abilities of Spirit Allies.

Epilogue

Time conquers all things. Cities fall, Mountains crumble and the Skies and the Seas will bleed away. Even the Sun will dim and fade, scorching the Prime in a defiant outburst before it's inevitable collapse. Under the weight of years, even Hope can die...Yet Xiaojing Wu will remain. Were he still mortal, he might weep.

Deep in the Far Realm, the remains of the Demi-Lich Acerarak coalesced and took form. Long had the Prime been denied to him, but his apprentice had served him well. The time was at hand...The Horror would soon return! His gem encrusted skull contorted into an exaggerated grin and his insane laughter echoed through desolate void.


Xiaojang Wu: Male Human Wu Jen 4/Anima Mage 6/Green Star Adept 10; Medium construct (augmented humanoid); HD 10d4 +10d8 +20; 101 hp; Init +3; Spd 30ft; AC 17, Touch 11, flat footed 17; BA +16; Grp +16; Attack +16 melee Slam (1d6+6 20/x2) or +11/+6/+1 ranged Fire Shuriken (3d6+4 19-20); SA Slam; SQ Damage Reduction 10/Adamantine, Immunity to Cold and Electricity, Negative Energy Healing, Construct Immunities, Otherworldly Vision, Starmetal Rigor, Starmetal Dependancy, Unnatural Metabolism, Watchful spirit, Taboo x2, Spell Secret (Extend Apparition); AL NE; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +15; Str 18, Dex 12, Con -, Int 28 (34), Wis 10, Cha 17 (21)

Skills and Feats: Appraise +17, Autohypnosis +7, Bluff +16, Concentration +30, Craft (Alchemy) +18, Craft (Calligraphy) +13, Decipher Script +16, Knowlegdge (Arcana) +35, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) +16, Knowledge (Geography) +16, Knowledge (History) +16, Knowledge (Local) +13, Knowledge (Nature) +20, Knowledge (Planar) +23, Knowledge (Religion) +17, Intimidate +30, Spellcraft +35. Languages: Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Ignan, Auran, Aquan, Terran, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial. Feats: Extend Spell, Martial Study (Devoted Spirit), Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Combat Casting, Chain Spell, Persistant Spell, Practiced Binder, Fell Drain.

Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories, Magical Appraisal, Never Outnumbered, Swift Concentration

IL 10. Maneuvers (encounter) : Vanguards Strike (Strike), (Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind) Action Before Thought(Counter), (Novice Slippers of the Setting Sun) Step of the Wind (stance), (Master Shadow Hand Gloves) Shadow Blink, (Scholars Devoted Spirit Amulet) Daunting Strike (strike).

EBL 11. Check +15 . Save DC 17. Current Pact: Acerarak, Liches Energy Immunity, Negative Energy Healing. Pact Phylactery (Haures), Incorporeal Movement, Inaccessable mind.

Spell like abilities: Expeditious Retreat CL 5 at will, Disguise Self CL 5 3/day, Control Undead CL 5 3/day (DC 14) Phantasmal Killer CL 7 3/day (DC 16), Dispel Magic CL5 3/day, Call Lightning CL 5 3/day, DC 14.

ECL 21 (15). Spells Memorised; 0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Presdigitation; 1: Elemental Burst (water), Ghost Light, Scales of the Lizard, Seething Eyebane x2, Silent Image, True Strike; 2: Blackrot, Heart of Air, Ice Spray, Lahm's Finger Darts x 3, Mirror Image; 3: (Extended) Alter Self, Heart of Water, Magnetic Body, (Extended) Protection from Arrows, Stinking Cloud x2, Thornskin; 4: Absorb Strength, Dismissal, Enervation, Greater Invisibility, Heart of Earth, Solid Fog, Wall of Bones; 5: (Extended, Chained) Apparition, Dominate Person, Blade of Deception, Heart of Fire, Telekenisis, Teleport; 6: Consume Form, Repulsion, (Persistant) Shield, Transfix, True Seeing; 7: Absorbtion, Blade of Darkness, Body ouside of Body, Giant Size; 8: (Chained) Power Leech, Mind Blank, (Chained) Telekenisis; Save DC 22 + spell level. CL 22 with Necromancy.

Gear
Belt of battle, Manual of Quickness in Action +3 (applied), Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (applied), Tome of Clear Thought +5 (applied), Cloak of Displacement (minor), Robe of Arcane Might (Necromancy), Novice Slippers of the Setting Sun, Master Shadow Hand Gloves, Scolars Devoted Spirit Amultet, Headband of Intellect +6, Hewards Handy Haversack, Orange Ioun Stone, Mask of Lies, Teeth of Dahlver Nar (Acerarak, Focalor, Haures, Karsus, Marchosias, Ronove), Ring of Arcane Supremacy, Headband of Intellect + 2 (stowed away or buffing a Spirit Ally), Boccobs Blessed Book, Tunic of Steady Spellcasting, Novice Ring of the Diamond Mind, Pact Phylactery, Pearl of Power (1st) and (2nd), Bracers of the Entangling Blast, Hewards Fortifying Bedroll, Fire Shuriken. Over 85,000gp of assorted swag, including consumables, spell foci and components, alchemical items and starmetal fragments. 10,000gp worth of Starmetal Elixers (consumed).

Spellbook 451 pages.
0 level. All. Taken From lists in CArc and CM
1st level. Accuracy*, Animate Water*, Animate Wood*, Charm Person*, Climbing Tree*, Comprehend Languages*, Elemental Burst, Fiery Eyes, Ghost Light, Hypnotism*, Jet of Steam*, Magic Missile*, Melt*, Scales of the Lizard, Seething Eyebane, Shield, Silent Image, Secret Signs, Sleep, Summon Monster 1*, True Strike, Unseen Servant*, Ventriloquism*
2nd level. Alter Self, Apparition, Blackrot*, Detect Thoughts*, Fire Shuriken, Heart of Air*, Ice Blast*, Invisibility*, Kiss of the Toad*, Lahm's Finger Darts, Lightning Blade*, Locate Object*, Mirror Image*, Misdirection*, Protection From Arrows*, Pyrotechnics*, Resist Energy*, Rope Trick*, See invisibility*, Summon Monster 2*, Torrent of Tears*, Wall of Gloom*, Whispering Wind*
3rd Level. Absorb Mind, Bestow Curse*, Commune with Lesser Spirit*, Dispel Magic*, Elemental Eye*, Fireball*, Heart of Water*, Illusory Script*, Magic Circle Against Good/Evil/Chaos/Law*, Magnetic Body*, Major Image, Mount*, Plant Growth, Remove Curse*, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster 3*, Thornskin*
4th Level. Absorb Strength, Confusion*, Creeping Darkness*, Dimension Door*, Dismissal, Enervation*, Fire Trap*, Greater Invisibility*, Heart of Earth*, Lesser Spirit Binding, Locate Creature*, Minor Creation*, Polymorph*, Rain of Spines*, Rusting Grasp*, Solid Fog, Summon Monster 4*, Symbol of Pain*, Symbol of Sleep*, Wall of Bones*, Wall of Fire*
5th Level. Blade of Deception, Dream*, Fire and Brimstone*, Heart of Fire*, Fabricate*, Nightmare*, Passwall*, Persistant Image*, Power Leech, Spirit Self*, Stone Shape*, Summon Monster 5, Teleport, Telekenisis, Wall of Stone*, Wall of Force*
6th Level. Consume Likeness, Control Weather, Greater Dispel Magic*, Permenant Image*, Programmed Image*, Spirit Binding, Storm of Fire and Ice*, Summon Monster 6*, Symbol of Fear*, Transfix, True Seeing*, Veil*
7th Level. Absorbtion, Adamantine Wings*, Blade of Darkness*, Body Outside of Body, Death By Thorns, Giant Size, Greater Scrying, Greater Teleport*, Great Worm of the Earth*, Limited Wish*, Symbol of Weakness*
8th Level. Earthquake*, Evil Weather, Greater Spirit Ally*, Mind Blank, Mysterious Redirection*, Polymorph any Object*, Whirlwind*
*Researched or bought spells as suggested on p198 DMG and p179 PHB. Wu spends a fair proportion of his gold (29,520gp) on his arsenal of spells. Just as a Warrior might on arms and armour. Corrupt spells are aquired through Wu Jen bonus spells. Myriad Vestiges have awakened Wu's hunger for dark and forbidden knowledge.

Abilities and tactics

Constructs and Corrupt spells. Read the description in BoVD. The corrupt component inflicts ability damage. Being immune to that damage in no way prevents that component. It does not prevent the physical and mental trauma from taking effect once the spell has ended. It just makes you immune to that trauma. Much in the same way a Fire elemental can still be effected by a Fireball. The spell does no damage, but it still has an effect regardless. I am willing to engage in reasonable debate about this. Is it cheesey? Up to you. I do not think so and I would ask the following. Do you think it is RAI for a Lich or Mummy Lord not to be able to use corrupt magics?

Summons/Callings: Greater Spirit Allies of up to 24 HD.

Buffs: Too numerous to count. Highlights include Persistant Chained Power Leech, suck your enemies dry and gain the bonus all day. That is a potential equal to the statistic drained from 22 creatures. Mind Blank. 6th level Vestige pacts. Aceraraks Negative Energy Healing allows healing via negative energy. Absorbtion can also be expended for healing.

Attacks: Too numerous to mention. Highlights include Chained Telekenisis grapples followed by Chained Power Drain and Blade of Darkness via the Belt of Battle. Magic Immune foes can be swallowed by a Great Worm of the Earth. Earthquake, Whirlwind and Evil Weather can alter landscapes. Body outside of Body duplicates with GSA abilities and access to Binding. Giant Size for when you want to lord over melee types. The thematic Green Fog variant of Evil Weather transmutes enemies (and bystanders) over a wide area.

Utilities. You're kidding right? Summon an Epic Ghost and let it take care of it for you. Scry and Die is the order of the day. Divine casters can be shut down via Evil Weather. Wu's abilities are exceeded only by a dedicated arcanist.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/%E5%B7%AB-bigseal.svg/200px-%E5%B7%AB-bigseal.svg.png

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:54 PM
"The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you guess and we both drink, and find out who is right, and who is dead."
Nicolo Egidi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exili) of House Gallanda
LE Halfling

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Dragonmarked_Gallery/101355.jpg

On a dark desert highway (Introduction and the first five levels):
"Ogre's eyes, it's hot and dusty out there! Your tavern must be on the shore of the only fresh water pond for a league in any direction!" The traveler shook the sand from his duster with one hand and mussed his hair to shake loose more sand as he spoke. He gave a small cry and jumped when he looked up again to find a slightly built halfling man with piercing eyes standing in front of him.
"Fancy a drink, or perhaps a hand or two at the card table, gov? I'm Nico. I help out here at the Inn of the Ebon Hound." As he spoke, he smiled, and suddenly the traveler felt a chill down his spine. Something told him he'd be lucky to get away from the card table with his life, let alone his money.Nicolo starts his adult life as a Rogue, but it doesn't suit him especially well. His countenance and mannerisms are too distinctive; his interests, too esoteric. Before long, he finds himself drawn to the life of a Hexblade, where the combination of social skills and an unsettling demeanor are a natural fit. An interest in chemicals and death combine to get Nicolo dabbling in crafting poisons, even though he knows the dangers. Mettle helps minimize the risks. Early on, he focuses his energies on staying hidden and, when that doesn't work, on weakening his foes' resolve through the Hexblade's Curse, Bluff, and Intimidate. His Dark Companion makes the latter much easier. So does Charm Person.


His mind is Tiffany-twisted (The story continues, and the next 5 levels):
"Tower spit! That's the fourth time in a row you bluffed me with a worse hand. What's your secret, Nico?"
"Just lucky, I guess. Have another cup of mead, gov?"Between Nico's innate interest in poisons and the esoterica he picks up around a card table, he discovers the nature and location of starmetal. The ritual of ingesting it hardens his weak system, and he becomes less vulnerable to the concoctions he creates, and Dallah Thaun's Luck helps out when the starmetal does not. Along the way, he begins to help out his uncle at the family tavern, and learns the the Ebon Hound is poorly concealed code for the Black Dogs' meeting place. He begins to study their techniques as well, so he can better utilize the poisons he enjoys, which work better with the Dark Companion around. When forced to more direct confrontations, Imperious Command + Dark Companion + Hexblade's Curse are a difficult trifecta to deal with, and Entropic Shield helps his defenses.

So I called up the Captain (The plot thickens, and the next 5 levels):
"I fear... I fear the mead was a mite stronger, or my head a mite more woozy, than I had thought, my friends. I think it time to cash out and get a room for... a room for the night, yes. My throat burns some with... with that last round."
"Here, gov. Let me show you the way to your bed."
"That's quite... quite nice of you, Nico."
At this point in his development, Nico is splitting his time almost evenly between learning more about the starmetal and its secrets, and working for the Black Dogs. He gains a Death Attack to use when his foe is debilitated. He learns of a poison made on another plane, in Cathrys, and works to obtain and specialize in it. By now, the starmetal he's ingested makes him largely immune to the acidic effects of this particular poison. Combining Hexblade's Curse with the Dark Companion and his Poison Expert feat results in opponents saving as if against a DC 30 - no easy task, generally. On obtaining his Sea Snake familiar, Nicolo gains yet another way of debilitating his enemies.

You can check out any time you like... (How our story and build finish up):
"Nico, I don't... I don't feel so well. Was there something... in that mead?" The traveler's face was ashen as Nico helped him adjust the sheets and pillow.
"I'm sure the barmaid didn't do anything to it, Commander Kor. I may have accidentally spilled a bit of something in it, however," Nico replied with an enigmatic smile.
"Dagger take you! How do you know who I am, and what did you do.. do to me, boy?"
"The correct question, Commander, is how did I know who you were, since who you are is just a dying man..."With Empower Poison, Poison Spell and Dhurinda's Touch, Nicolo can apply very deadly poisons in a multitude of ways, including his Slam attack. In completing his transformation to Construct form, he actually gains HP by overcoming his weak Constitution, as well as complete immunity to his favorite toys, should they be turned against him. With the use of Poison Spell on a Touch of Idiocy spell, he's simultaneously doing INT, WIS, CHA, and CON damage, in addition to the HP lost through the attack and the acidic nature of Sinmaker's Surprise. The fact that his CL is 12 instead of 6 by the end is a real boon in overcoming SR. Glitterdust comes too late to be extremely useful, but blinded foes are still more vulnerable to his attentions.

Options (Suggested flaws and alternatives ignored for the sake of elegance):Nicolo's weapons of choice are a thrown dagger and a hand crossbow, so Noncombatant is an obvious pick. Hexblade and GSA are both strong WILL classes, so Weak Will is not especially painful. Use both to fit in Master of Poisons and Poison Master (which moves Dallah Thaun's Luck up to 1st level), from Drow of the Underdark and Complete Scoundrel, respectively, so that early levels hold no dangers of poisoning himself and the poisons used become more virulent.
With no change in feats or skills, a build of Rogue 1/Hexblade 5/GSA 10/Black Dog 4/Luckstealer 1 gets 3rd level spells - Hound of Doom, for preference - and an ability that roughly duplicates the Hexblade's Curse for more uses per day.
Finally, any build using Hexblade should beg or bribe its way to using the Hexblade fix (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19547530/Contacting_Wizards_of_the_Coast_about_Hex_Blades&post_num=11#332210466) proposed by the class's creator, Mike Mearls.

Base Stats: STR 8 DEX 14 CON 8 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA 17
Alternate Class Features used: Dark Companion variant, PH 2 p47
Boost CHA with level advancements.

Sources used: Player's Handbook, Player's Handbook II, Eberron Campaign Setting, Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Stormwrack, Drow of the Underdark, Dragonmarked, Races of the Wild, Manual of the Planes

Level Breakdown{TABLE]LEVEL|CLASS|BAB|FORT|REF|WILL|FEAT|SKILLS|FEATURES |SPELLS|
1|Rogue 1|+0|+0|+5|+1|Least Mark of Hospitality (Prestidigitation)|Bluff 4, Concentration 2.0, Craft (poisonmaking), Decipher Script 2, Hide 4, Intimidate 3, Knowledge (arcana) 2.0, Knowledge (arch & eng) 2.0, Knowledge (geography) 2.0, Knowledge (history) 2.0, Profession (gambler) 4, Sleight of Hand 4|Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6|-|
2|Hexblade 1|+1|+0|+5|+3|-|Concentration 3, Hide 4.5, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Profession (gambler) 5|Hexblade's Curse|-|
3|Hexblade 2|+2|+0|+5|+4|Combat Casting|Concentration 4, Hide 5, Knowledge (arcana) 6, Profession (gambler) 6|Arcane Resistance|-|
4|Hexblade 3|+3|+1|+6|+4|-|Concentration 5, Craft (poisonmaking) 5, Hide 5.5, Knowledge (arcana) 7|Mettle|-|
5|Hexblade 4|+4|+1|+6|+5|-|Concentration 6, Craft (poisonmaking) 6, Hide 6, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (arcana) 8|Dark Companion|Charm Person|
6|Green Star Adept 1|+4|+1|+6|+7|Dallah Thaun's Luck|Concentration 7, Craft (poisonmaking) 7, Hide 7, Profession (gambler) 7|DR 1/adamantine, Improved Caster Level, Starmetal Dependency, Starmetal Rigor 1|-|
7|Green Star Adept 2|+5|+1|+6|+8|-|Concentration 8, Craft (poisonmaking) 8, Hide 8, Profession (gambler) 8|Natural Attack (slam), Unnatural Metabolism +2|-|
8|Black Dog 1|+5|+3|+8|+8|-|Bluff 5, Concentration 10, Craft (poisonmaking) 9, Hide 9, Intimidate 6, Profession (gambler) 9, Sleight of Hand 5|Heir's Mark, Improved Hospitality, Poison Use, Hand Crossbow Proficiency|-|
9|Green Star Adept 3|+6/+1|+4|+9|+8|Imperious Command|Concentration 11, Intimidate 8|Fortification (25%)|-|
10|Green Star Adept 4|+7/+2|+4|+9|+9|-|Concentration 13, Craft (poisonmaking) 11, Knowledge (arcana) 9|Otherworldly Vision, Starmetal Rigor 2|Entropic Shield|
11|Black Dog 2|+8/+3|+5|+10|+9|-|Bluff 6, Concentration 14, Craft (poisonmaking) 13, Hide 10, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (arcana) 10, Knowledge (the planes) 1.0|Death Attack, Dhurinda's Trick|-|
12|Green Star Adept 5|+8/+3|+5|+10|+9|Poison Expert (Sinmaker's Surprise)|Concentration 15, Craft (poisonmaking) 15, Knowledge (the planes) 2|Unnatural Metabolism +4|-|
13|Green Star Adept 6|+9/+4|+6|+11|+10|-|Concentration 16, Craft (poisonmaking) 16, Intimidate 11, Knowledge (arcana) 11|Fortification (50%)|-|
14|Black Dog 3|+10/+5|+6/+11|+11|-|Bluff 7, Concentration 17, Craft (poisonmaking) 17, Hide 11, Intimidate 13, Knowledge (arcana) 12, Sleight of Hand 7|Create Poison, Refine Poison|-|
15|Green Star Adept 7|+11/+6/+1|+6/+11/+11|Obtain Familiar (Tiny Sea Snake)|Concentration 18, Craft (poisonmaking) 18, Intimidate 14, Knowledge (arcana) 13|Null Metabolism, Star Metal Rigor 4|-|
16|Green Star Adept 8|+12/+7/+2|+6/+11/+12|-|Concentration 19, Craft (poisonmaking) 19, Intimidate 15, Knowledge (arcana) 14|Unnatural Metabolism +6|Touch of Idiocy|
17|Black Dog 4|+13/+8/+3|+7|+12|+12|-|Bluff 8, Concentration 20, Craft (poisonmaking) 20, Hide 12, Intimidate 17, Knowledge (arcana) 15, Sleight of Hand 9|Empower Poison, Lost in the Crowd|-|
18|Green Star Adept 9|+13/+8/+3|+8|+13|+12|Poison Spell|Concentration 21, Craft (poisonmaking) 21, Intimidate 18, Knowledge (arcana) 16|Fortification (75%)|-|
19|Black Dog 5|+13/+8/+3|+8|+13|+12|-|Bluff 9, Concentration 22, Craft (poisonmaking) 22, Hide 13, Intimidate 20, Knowledge (arcana) 17, Sleight of Hand 11|Dhurinda's Touch|-|
20|Green Star Adept 10|+14/+9/+4|+9/+13|+13|-|Concentration 23, Craft (poisonmaking) 23, Intimidate 21, Knowledge (arcana) 18|Emerald Perfection, Rapid Repair, Starmetal Rigor 6|Glitterdust|[/TABLE]

TOYS & TOOLS:Nicolo wants and needs to use a Hat of Disguise as soon as possible to cover the metamorphosis he is undergoing. Over the course of his career, Nicolo upgrades his dagger to a +1 Feycraft Assassination, Toxic, Virulent Dagger, Triple Weapon Capsule Retainer, Hilt Hollow, and a gets a Tooth of Leraje: (33,803g, 650g, and 20,000g for a weapon that's +5 to hit and damage, +5 to poison save DC, allows you to use poisons without poisoning yourself, you can apply poison to the weapon 4/encounter as a swift action, the poisons last for 2 hits each, and the secondary save is in 5 rounds rather than 10 rounds). He wears leather armor out of habit from the Rogue level, and enchants it with Fearsome as soon as possible. Hexbands are another clear must-have. Other than that, his money goes mostly into his poisons.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 08:56 PM
That's all of 'em. On your mark, get set, judge!!!

(Note: I never actually had time to review all of these builds for legality, power, or style, so I'll be just as impressed and surprised as the rest of you on a second look)

Amphetryon
2010-07-09, 09:35 PM
"Choose a glass. By the end of this game, we will find out who is right and who is dead." (I hope someone gets the reference)Westley to Vizzini, The Princess Bride. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Stupid half-right memory. :smallredface:

Akal Saris
2010-07-09, 09:44 PM
Vizzini, The Princess Bride. :smallbiggrin:

I did a paper on American interventions in Kashmir diplomacy from 1947-2000, and it took every ounce of my self-discipline not to give my paper the subtitle "Never get involved in a land war in Asia!"

Also, I had to edit my build for legality about 5 minutes after hitting the submit button :smalleek: That will teach me to try and make the character in one sitting!

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 09:46 PM
Vizzini, The Princess Bride. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, that one was Westley, IIRC. :smallbiggrin:

Draz74
2010-07-09, 09:53 PM
Skimming through these entries, I am very impressed with the creativity here. Much better than anything I had in mind for GSA.


Actually, that one was Westley, IIRC. :smallbiggrin:

Indeed, and the actual quote is more like, "The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you guess and we both drink, and find out who is right, and who is dead."


I did a paper on American interventions in Kashmir diplomacy from 1947-2000, and it took every ounce of my self-discipline not to give my paper the subtitle "Never get involved in a land war in Asia!"

That might be the best thing I have heard all day.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-09, 09:57 PM
Indeed, and the actual quote is more like, "The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you guess and we both drink, and find out who is right, and who is dead."

I updated the witty comment section with the correct version.

Keld Denar
2010-07-09, 10:01 PM
Holy crap. My bad. I hope nobody saw that...

Gah...:smalleek:

I guess I must have glossed over that part of the rules.

WinWin
2010-07-09, 10:11 PM
Very impressive. I have just read though the backrounds and skimmed the basics of the builds. Few of the builds are alike, all of them have unique and interesting stories. Going back for a more detailed read now.

I look forward to hearing the opinion of our esteemed judges. Thanks to our host Prinny, and also to the judges.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 12:55 AM
I'll weigh in tomorrow, as is my wont.

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 01:14 AM
OK, this is my first time as a judge here at Iron Chef. Some of you might not know me - my name is Shinken and I'm well known around my neighborhood for being the judge on Beerfest 2007 & 2008. I'm also quite fond of D&D and optimization, and I have a few handbooks around. My favourite color is green and my favourite band is Millencolin. Oh, my ratings, of course...

Byerek Runeweaver
Originality: 2
Illumian, Duskblade, Arcanamach, Abjurant Champion, Greater Mighty Wallop, Minor Shapeshift... I've seen those together a million of times. Nothing new here. I simply didn't like his backstory too.
Power: 4
Very solid build with high CL and high base attack, good spell selection and the like. It's a little too 'bread and butter' for my tastes, but that's OK.
Elegance: 3
Paladin levels without any justification in your backstory was a very big NO for me. Same could be applied to incarnum.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
You do get points for the Strenght synergy, but that's about it. There are tons of gish PrCs that would have ended up in a stronger build and without the backstory to back your choice up, I just don't see why GSA.

Little Starry Eyes
Originality: 5
A werebird halfling saint? That surprised me, oh did it surprise me! I like the backstory and the way the choices are explained so neatly in the backstory.
Power: 2.5
You probably expected that. That's A LOT of level adjustment you took, you completed GSA which drops your hit points even more, your base attack bonus is lacking, your skills are poor and your spells are very limited.
You have a few tricks, granted, but they are not spectacular.
Elegance: 3
Everything meshes pretty well together in the build, you reason your choices very well and it is backed up by the backstory. Very good.
You lots points because of Luminous Armor, though. Only prepared spellcasters can cast sanctified spells.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
I'm giving this rating more because of the backstory than because of anything else. Starry-Eyes would be better with more Keeper of the Cerulean Sign, both mechanically and in terms of flavour.

Dr. Julius
Originality: 4
Frankenstein's monster has been done again and again, but the mix of classes is very entertaining... in a creepy way. I also enjoy his tactics and the focus on Inflict Spells.
Power: 4
Solid defenses, debuffing and some melee power. Very good.
Elegance: 2.5
The doctor feels... odd. First, I can't find the feat Skill Mastery anywhere and it seems it is that feat from UA that adds a skill to your class list: that feat is from an alternate skill system and should not be combined with the normal skill system. Second, your backstory is very open and you don't tie your choices with it; doc is just your average mad wizard, it seems, he just eats starmetal now and then. Third, Dreadful Wrath. That's a regional featthat humans can only take when raised in Rashemen. That's a lot of potential for backstory there - a land of people that love nature and the spirits, you are born there and become something so unnatural... It seems you just took the feat, ignored it was a regional feat and went with it. Fourth, your backstory does not even mention starmetal.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
You go into the PrC late, don't complete it and the only thing you gain from it are some resistances/immunities you'd gain from Dread Necromancer at high levels anyway. You don't make use of the bonus strenght or increased base attack bonus at all. While the class fits your backstory, Fleshwarper alone also fits that role.

Stardream
Originality: 2.5
OK, another illumian gish... The greater focus on melee than on spellcasting got you a few points. So did the idea of the transformation as curse.
Power: 3
You said there is no reason not to try Leap Attack every round... but there is. You are a Duskblade. You channel spells as a standard action and you can't do so on a charge. Also, your hit points suck since you lost your Con score, but that's only on the very last level so I chose to ignore it.
Elegance: 3
That Knight levels hit you hard here. They are not needed for the build and not justified in your backstory.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
It's interesting for the backstory... and that's about it, really. You barely focus on spells, going for more of a charger build. You do have some synergy from illumian, but it's not a good use of GSA at all.

Kao Lei
Originality: 2.5
Savage Bard is the only original element here, everything is pretty standard.
Power: 3.5
Sublime Chord helped you here, since it allows you to get 7th-level spells. Good feat choices but I think you focused a little too much on taking advantage of your Charisma and it hurt you a little.
Elegance: 4
A neat build that fits perfectly the backstory.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
GSA fits your backstory very well... and nothing more. You barely mention the classes abilities.

Glorgen
Originality: 4
A dwarf with fey blood? You don't see that every day. Very good.
Power: 2.5
With low base attack bonus and lack of Power Attack (see below), Glorgen is close to the weakest presented build. You don't even deal with the glaivelock's biggest problem - mobility.
Elegance: 2.5
That's sad, but you can't Power Attack with eldritch glaive. It's not a weapon at all. You also didn't specify what spell-like ability was the focus of your Quicken Spell-like Ability feat.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5
I really don't see what GSA adds to the build. You get a bonus to strenght wich makes hitting with eldritch glaive easier... and that's about it.

Xiajing Wu
Originality: 4
Wow! How amazing! A Wu Jen/Anima Mage?! Sure as hell didn't see that coming! Very interesting!
Power: 5
You are the closest thing to a full-caster here, so of course you get the upper hand on power. The researching spells thing of course helps and your spell selection is very very good.
Elegance: 2.5
Researching spells is DM-dependant and it cost you some points here.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
You don't make use of all abilities, but the ones you make use of really do count. You get into the class kind of late and you could get the no-Con thing quite easily with other means (say, Necropolitan) but I like what you did.

Nicolo Egidi
Originality: 3.5
I expected a Hexblade here, but not a halfling.
Power: 2.5
You focus heavily on poisons and many many things are immune to it. Other than that, you perform pretty poorly on anything other than social situations. A weak build with an ace in a sleeve that can be easily denied, no doubt.
Elegance: 4
You needed Rogue levels for the skills, so you took'em and justified them. I like that. The build is increasingly synergetic and meshes it's elements pretty well.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2
I wonder what Green Star Adept does for this build. I see no synergy whatsoever.

I must say I'm impressed no one tried to use Uncanny Blow to take advantage of the increased Str or Robilar's Gambit to take advantage of the DR, or even Roll With It to increase said DR.
OK, folks, these are my ratings and thanks for tuning in.

Pechvarry
2010-07-10, 01:33 AM
Stardream
That Knight levels hit you hard here. They are not needed for the build and not justified in your backstory.

Minor nitpick: He mentions that he was knighted after defeating (and presumably saving the village from) the black dragon.

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 07:56 AM
Minor nitpick: He mentions that he was knighted after defeating (and presumably saving the village from) the black dragon.

Which has got very few to do with the actual Knight class, really. Ian McKellen and Paul McCartney do not seem like the melee type for me. Being knighted does not get you into the Knight mindset.

Ingus
2010-07-10, 12:14 PM
Wow, congrats to everyone.

At first glance, it seems that you carved blood from stones and done very pretty entries. Since most of them are non self explainatory (bad guys, bad) and I see much things to study, I guess I'll show my judgings maybe tomorrow or, at least, monday.

I had my favourites already: hope they did not mess up something

Pechvarry
2010-07-10, 12:22 PM
Which has got very few to do with the actual Knight class, really. Ian McKellen and Paul McCartney do not seem like the melee type for me. Being knighted does not get you into the Knight mindset.

Thank you, sincerely. I'm chuckling at the mental image of Paul McCartney with a sword, and I'm gonna have to make a Beetles-themed Song of the White Raven build now.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 05:22 PM
Boilerplate Disclaimer: anything said below is a reflection of my personal opinion towards the work presented for my viewing, nothing more. I make no judgments about the presenter, as the level of effort expended to create something for this is absolutely marvelous. Well done, everyone.

Now, the scores!

Byerek Runeweaver
Power: 4. Pretty strong entry, actually. Clever usage of GSA's half-casting and Suel's short list.
Originality: 3.5. I've seen GSA used with other gishy classes before, and though Suel isn't the most common one ever, it's close to my expectations.
Elegance: 2.5. Lots of jumping around, don't take too much of anything, I don't like the look of it. It's a fine build, but it just feels clumsy. Further, the lack of a connecting story bugs me somewhat, though not majorly.
Use of Green Star Adept: 2.5. I said I would accept 9 or 10 levels, not 8. That's something that I was very very unhappy to see. It feels much more like Suel Arcanamach and Abjurant Champion are the stars here, not GSA.

Total: 3.125. It's a fine build, quite strong, but the fact that GSA feels highly redundant and non-special here bothers me.

Starry-Eyes
Note: HOLYCRAPITSABOOK. :smalleek: Seriously, damn man. I didn't really expect to be reading a novel today.

Power: 3.5. She seems quite defensive, and very very focused against aberrations. However, her overall power isn't that great. Now, in an aberration-hunting campaign, this is almost God mode.
Originality: 4. I didn't expect to see Bard/Keeper/Lycanthrope/Saint. Creative and well-crafted.
Elegance: 2. Ok, I am really sorry for this, but you used a custom Lycanthropic template (questionable in general), traits (from UA, also questionable and personally I hate them), and Saint (regarded as among the better templates, along with one of the most thorniest in regards to acquiring it).
Use of Green Star Adept: 4. This felt like a good solid home for GSA. It actually even made sense to take it to 10 here.

Note: I am giving you an additional .5 for your story, just because it was excellent and so far beyond the call of duty, it is only far that I acknowledge your hard work.

Total: 3.5 (accounting for the story, 3.375 otherwise). It's a solid and enjoyable build with a good unifying tale woven into it.

Dr. Julius Mordenstein
Power: 4. You set out to build a melee mage, and you succeeded, in an interesting fashion.
Originality: 3.5. Dread Necromancer was actually not outside the purview of what I was expecting. However, Fleshwarper was. I'm impressed.
Elegance: 3.5. No issues here. Only three classes, you built on GSA well, I'm pleased.
Use of Green Star Adept: 2.5. I cannot give you better than this. You didn't finish the class, or even take 9 levels of it. I said 9 or 10 was acceptable to me, not 8. I get that you wanted to take Fleshwarper and whatever, but eh.

Total: 3.375. It's a fine build, and fairly creative.

Kaurrek the Eternal
Power: 2.5. He's a greatsword fighter. Much as I appreciate the straightforwardness of that career choice, it's not super useful. Even worse is that the guy doesn't have Shock Trooper or anything else that makes greatsword users good, he instead has Great Cleave and Monkey Grip.
Originality: 2.5. He's a Duskblade/fullBABclasses/GSA pretty much. This is par for the course
Elegance: 3.5. Can't dock you here, it's simple and clean-lined.
Use of Green Star Adept: 3. This is what GSA was intended for I think, though it's not what it's best at I feel.

Total: 2.875. It's a basic "break stuff with sticks" character, and in that limited capacity, it's fine. However, I wonder at a few things: why didn't you take Shock Trooper, it's in CWar after all. PHB2 has good feats for meleers, where are they? Given the sources you used, you're missing stuff I would have expected to see here, and I think it hurt you.

Kao Lei
Power: 3.5. Kao Lei isn't really crazy strong, just decently strong, and that's alright. However, that sneaky level of Sublime Chord was clever. Good boost there. :smallwink:
Originality: 4. Savage Bard? Not something I was expecting. The story, while minimalist, was actually quite fresh and creative at the same time. I liked it quite a bit.
Elegance: 3. You dipped a lot, which I'm opposed to on principle. It wasn't SO bad that I want to light you on fire or anything, but it was highly aggravating.
Use of Green Star Adept: 4. This is a good, creative, decently strong gish character, and a strong use of GSA. Well done.

Total: 3.625. This was a good and strong entry. I am well impressed.

Glorgen
Power: 2 or 3 (see text). Ok, this is a debatable one. See, I seem to recall that touch attacks cannot be power attacked with (because I believe they are classified as light weapons and you cannot use PA with light weapons). However, as I'm a busy fellow, I cannot find a citation for that. If that is the case, Glorgen's power drops like the stone that he is. If it's NOT, then he's decently powerful. I'll let Prinny make the call there.
Originality: 4. Warlock was so far out of my expectations that it's on the freaking MOON. Well done, truly.
Elegance: 3.5. No issues here.
Use of Green Star Adept: 3. While I loved that you tried something fresh and new, thanks to Warlock, I don't think it works amazingly well here. I appreciate the creativity, but it didn't turn out to be great.

Total: 3.125 or 3.375, depending. Either way, the character is unique, if not my favorite ever.

Xiao Jing Wu
Power: 2.5. You did it wrong. See, Bind Vestige, the feat, has only a specific list of acceptable powers. These are called out on page 74 of Tome of Magic. Further, Anima Mage doesn't actually progress your binding ability, since you have a VERY SPECIFIC list of acceptable vestiges. Now, some folks claim that this style of early entry into Anima Mage gives you full binding abilities, but they'd be wrong, since you never got true binding to start with. You are of course a decently strong caster, so that's in your favor.
Originality: 4. This one I'll grant you. Binder/Wu Jen/GSA? Didn't see it coming, it was creative and unique.
Elegance: 3. Other than the fact that you based your build on something that is at best highly questionable and at worse blatantly illegal, it's fine really.
Use of Green Star Adept: 2.5. As you said, GSA isn't really useful for a full caster, making your decision to use it a bit... questionable, really. Yeah, you ended as a 15th level Wu Jen caster, which is nice, but GSA feels almost forced.

Total: 3. The Bind Vestige misstep was disastrous, IMO. I really really think you should maybe have checked to see if it actually worked before you built a character around it. I could almost forgive if you just did the early entry, but you apparently missed how the feat works entirely, since at level 1 you bound Aym for the Halo of Fire, an ability explicitly not granted by the feat! This really cheeses me off since while this is a common mistake made with that feat, you should check EVERYTHING in a contest like this one.

Nicolo Egidi
Power: 3.5. A poisoner can be quite effective, and Nico (Bellic? :smalltongue:) seems to fit the bill well.
Originality: 5. Given what else I've seen today, this wasn't what I expected to give a 5 to. However, the irony and creativity inherent in playing a poisoner construct with such elegance as Nicolo has just floors me. Bravo, sir, bravo.
Elegance: 4. Normally, I'd ride you about that Rogue level, but it actually makes sense here (thanks to needed ranks in Poisonmaking). It's smooth and slick, and I like it.
Use of Green Star Adept: 3. This is not what the class was designed for, nor what I think it is good at, but you did use all of it, and used it in a clever and unique fashion. I'm impressed, but not enough to call this an excellent use of GSA.

Total: 3.625. A clever build. I'm impressed.

Best Score: Kao Lei and Nicolo Egidi tie for this one, with a 3.625.

Personal Favorite: Damn, that's tough. Starry Eyes wins on text and ability to keep me glued to the screen. Nico was the most "WAIT WUT" of them all, which I prize heavily.

By the by, I want to speak to the creator of Xiao Jing Wu for a moment. Let me be perfectly clear: I tanked you because you made an assumption, namely that a trick which TheoryOp has said may debatably work would fly here, in a non-TheoryOp environment. Personally, the fact that you based your build around a feat that you misread really bothers me, as it implies you were too lazy to turn a page (quite literally) and check that this thing worked at all!

All that said though, I wanted to applaud you for something: you tried something NEW. Really really new. Yeah, it failed (but that was due to technical difficulties), but you went out there and made something well beyond everyone's expectations, and I really appreciate that. Don't let this bad scoring bother you too much. Instead, next time, make sure your trick is not TheoryOp and that it actually WORKS, and go for it anyways. :smallwink:

Private-Prinny
2010-07-10, 05:45 PM
Glorgen
Power: 2 or 3 (see text). Ok, this is a debatable one. See, I seem to recall that touch attacks cannot be power attacked with (because I believe they are classified as light weapons and you cannot use PA with light weapons). However, as I'm a busy fellow, I cannot find a citation for that. If that is the case, Glorgen's power drops like the stone that he is. If it's NOT, then he's decently powerful. I'll let Prinny make the call there.

After reading both the Player's Handbook definition of a touch attack and the description of Eldritch Glaive, I see nothing saying that it is a light weapon. It is treated in all other ways as a glaive, including the ability to us PA.


Thank you, sincerely. I'm chuckling at the mental image of Paul McCartney with a sword, and I'm gonna have to make a Beetles-themed Song of the White Raven build now.

Don't forget about the puns. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html)

arguskos
2010-07-10, 05:46 PM
After reading both the Player's Handbook definition of a touch attack and the description of Eldritch Glaive, I see nothing saying that it is a light weapon. It is treated in all other ways as a glaive, including the ability to us PA.
I could have sworn I'd see such somewhere, but couldn't find the reference either. Use the higher score.

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 06:07 PM
I could have sworn I'd see such somewhere, but couldn't find the reference either. Use the higher score.

After reading both the Player's Handbook definition of a touch attack and the description of Eldritch Glaive, I see nothing saying that it is a light weapon. It is treated in all other ways as a glaive, including the ability to us PA.


Relevant info is on Complete Arcane. Page 73 lists which feats can be used with weapon-like spells - Power Attack is not one of them. Page 85 mentions that effects that apply to weapon damage can't be applied to weapon-like spells, mentioning prayer and inspire courage as examples.

Nowhere on eldritch glaive's text does it even mention glaive feats apply to it, really. It only appears similar to a glaive. Now that I re-read it, I realize not even Weapon Focus (glaive) would apply:

Least; 2nd; Blast Shape
Your eldritch blast takes on physical substance, appearing similar to a glaive. As a full-round action, you can make a single melee touch attack as it wielding a reach weapon. If you hit, your target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast (including any eldritch essence applied to the blast). Unlike
hideous blow (Complete Arcane 134), you cannot combine your eldritch glaive with damage from a held weapon. Furthermore, until the start of your next turn, you also threaten nearby squares as if wielding a reach weapon, and
you can make attacks of opportunity with your eldritch glaive.
These are melee touch attacks. If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you can (as part of the full-round action) make as many attacks with your
eldritch glaive as your base attack bonus allows. For example, a 12th-level warlock could attack twice, once with a base attack bonus of+6, and again with a base attack bonus of +1.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-10, 06:37 PM
Good catch. Lower score it is.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-07-10, 06:58 PM
I'm just as glad I got hit by RL. My build was a Suel Archanamach, which pretty much was identical to the first submission. Well, not quite, I finished GSA and didn't bother with AbChamp, but that was about it.

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 07:08 PM
I'm just as glad I got hit by RL. My build was a Suel Archanamach, which pretty much was identical to the first submission. Well, not quite, I finished GSA and didn't bother with AbChamp, but that was about it.

I also thought on Arcanamach, but without Abjurant Champion abuse, Knight of the Weave is just plain better. My idea was a spellscale Spellthief/Knight of the Weave/GSA/Abjurant Champion, going for killer caster level. I also wanted to squeeze a level of Exotic Weapon Master there, but three 3/4 BAB classes were hurting a lot, specially because it made it harder for me to qualify for Robilar's Gambit, which would be my ace in a sleeve.
Also, please comment on the recently moved Suel Arcanamach Handbook ^^

arguskos
2010-07-10, 07:21 PM
Good catch. Lower score it is.
A-ha! Vindication! :smallbiggrin:

Also, sorry Mr. Submitted-That-Guy. I'm nitpicky about some stuff.

WinWin
2010-07-10, 07:39 PM
I suspected I had made a mistake. I had just assumed it was hiding later in the build. Should have stuck with my Jade Pheonix Mage/GSA instead of making the alteration.

Thanks.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 07:47 PM
I suspected I had made a mistake. I had just assumed it was hiding later in the build. Should have stuck with my Jade Pheonix Mage/GSA instead of making the alteration.

Thanks.
If you are Glorgen, well, don't sweat it. It wasn't such a major mistake that you tanked entirely. The build was solid, and even though I don't think Warlock and GSA blended perfectly, you did try something creative and interesting.

Also, was anyone else surprised at the lack of ToB in this contest? It isn't here ANYWHERE, and I was sorta expecting it.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-10, 07:56 PM
A dwarf with fey blood? You don't see that every day.
There really should be more than there are. I mean, plenty of mountain fey out there.


Researching spells is DM-dependant and it cost you some points here.
Thing is... isn't wizard and archivist the same pretty much? Unless you start at 1st level in the game it's likely you'll have to have the DM's permission to add most of your spell/prayer book. Doesn't seem quite right to dock it.


Ok, I am really sorry for this, but you used a custom Lycanthropic template (questionable in general),
Custom? It's a template that can be added to any predator/scavenger/omnivore. The chordevoc or however you spell the bloody thing and halfling seems to meet the prerequisites. Why dock points for that? It looks perfectly legit.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 08:06 PM
Custom? It's a template that can be added to any predator/scavenger/omnivore. The chordevoc or however you spell the bloody thing and halfling seems to meet the prerequisites. Why dock points for that? It looks perfectly legit.
Because unlike other templates, it is significantly closer to custom work than, say, Saint is. The Lycanthropic templates require that you apply them to a critter, then to your character, causing all manner of possibilities for jackups. Further, Lycanthropic was surely not designed with all the myraid options that now exist in mind, causing lots of room for brokenness. It's a template that really is better off avoided, IMO.

Also, because I don't specific precisely what costs what, it's quite possible I just gave a minor deduction for it (which is exactly what I did) and didn't tank the score cause of it.

the humanity
2010-07-10, 08:11 PM
Byerek Runeweaver
Power: 4. power attack and a gish is a proven strategy. no exception here.
Originality: 3. I'd give you a 2 normally because everybody has made a guy like this, but the Suel arcanamach was not what I expected in the first gish build.
Elegance: 2. you used more than 10 books I believe. one so you could trade ride for tumble, which seemed hugely unneccessary, unlike something like bardic knack or riparte. your backstory wasn't very thrilling to me either, though I like to think that I have high standards in that department.
Use of Green Star Adept: 1. this build would have been way better without it. other than an unnatural love of really hard rocks, this character had little flavorwise to do with it.

Starry-Eyes
Power: 3.5- 2 normal, 5 abberation campaign. if you're a beholder and you have this crazy little halfling chasing you down, you might have to overcome your paranoia and hire a dragon or two to take her out. luckily, you wont need a huge one.
Originality: 4.5. this was the most unique I think. the templates really made the flavor work, and the character was just such a unique hero. I love the story it had also. add 3 more pages and I'll buy the novel.
Elegance: 2. custom template is pretty bad. I have to nerf you here. you also used 7 sources. I love the story, but there was enough wrong in the elegance spot for me that I can't let this go with more than a 2, especially after giving Byrek a 1 for far less. EDIT: you're right, it's not a flaw. a trait is fine by me.
Use of Green Star Adept: 4. you did well here. it fit in every way.

Dr. Julius Mordenstein
Power: 3.5. he's good, but if he loses the initiative to Team Cleric...
Originality: 4. I was not expecting a zombie construct with a running inflict combo.
Elegance: 5. 3 classes, a cool story, and no rules blowing. no book list, but you definitely used 3 out of core, probably like 5. if someone can get a list on the books this guy used I'd appreciate. EDIT: upon hearing I pushed him to first with this, can you maybe PM the book list to a nonjudge (any) and have him post it?
Use of Green Star Adept: 2. 8 levels. you used them relatively well I think. he did flavorally seem more dead than construct.

Kaurrek the Eternal
Power: 3.75. power attack. duskblade. looks a little weaker than Byrek to me.
Originality: 2. nothing that really stuck out to me.
Elegance: 2. you dipped fighter.
Use of Green Star Adept: 3. good fit. little was really used to full potential though.

Kao Lei
Power: 3.5. same idea as the duskblade guys, the bard is a nice change.
Originality: 3. you put a lot of time into this one, and it shows, especially with the 2 variants.
Elegance: 2. more dipping. I like the story though. it's really I AM THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!!!!
Use of Green Star Adept: 3.75. I liked how you put it in.

Glorgen
Power: 3.75. a combat warlock focused on Eldritch Glaive. very popular, GSA did well with it.
Originality: 3. really original with the bearded fey, otherwise standard ideas- well built just standard.
Elegance: 4.5. 3 classes. story had potential, needed some more words I think.
Use of Green Star Adept: 3. you toughened up your glaive dwarf a tad and turned him into a flying fortress. I can dig it.

Wu
Power: 5. a wizard will solve you. hopefully.
Originality: 4. wu jen is always a new pathway. really interesting story.
Elegance: 2.5. through a quick scan, at least 6 non core books. only 3 classes, which makes me happier.
Use of Green Star Adept: 2.5. seemed more of a limited summoner, with a little less squish. could have done better with some more spell levels.

Nicolo
Power: 1.5. so many better poisoners available, I'm a fan of playing a straight assassin myself.
Originality: 5. though he isn't really powerful, a hexblade poisoner who poisons you with a body slam is totally awesome and gets my props.
Elegance: 2. 8-9 books. 4 classes is fine... more than my preference, but if that's how you make it work, that's how you make it work. I just wish you pulled it down to 5 books. Nico does make total sense with everything though. always a plus.
Use of Green Star Adept: 5. your main focus was on a class ability. even if it's not totally optimal, you bit the bullet, went for it, and included my favorite Eagles song. so I think you're the only one to get 2 5's from me.

done!

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 08:13 PM
Thing is... isn't wizard and archivist the same pretty much? Unless you start at 1st level in the game it's likely you'll have to have the DM's permission to add most of your spell/prayer book. Doesn't seem quite right to dock it.


Wizards only get spells on their list, Archivists have it listed on their class features that they can mess stuff up. To get stuff out of Wu Jen's spell list via spell research seems cheesy for me and I wouldn't allow it as a DM, even though DMG has a paragraph saying 'it could be done'.


There really should be more than there are. I mean, plenty of mountain fey out there.

Must be the beards. Fey like smooth faces, I hear!

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-10, 08:35 PM
Further, Lycanthropic was surely not designed with all the myraid options that now exist in mind, causing lots of room for brokenness. It's a template that really is better off avoided, IMO.
*shrugs*

Looks like they could have applied the template to the Eagle instead and it'd have worked out about the same, and its in the MM 3.5.


Must be the beards. Fey like smooth faces, I hear!
Bah, so many oddball fey, they shouldn't be picky.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 08:37 PM
*shrugs*

Looks like they could have applied the template to the Eagle instead and it'd have worked out about the same, and its in the MM 3.5.
It's more a matter of personal distaste and general principle. I'm firmly of the opinion that lycanthropy should not be a template, but a class, of which there are several I've seen that work very well for representing a "beastman" or some such concept.

Still, like I said, I didn't really do much more than a minor nick (under .5 of a point), so I feel fine about disliking it.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-10, 08:52 PM
Though the Humanity's is incomplete, here is the current total:

#1. Little Starry Eyes - 3.5/3.5/3.5 (3.5)
#2. Dr. Julius - 3.375/3.375/3.625 (3.4583)
#3. Xiajing Wu - 3.75/3 (3.375)
#4. Nicolo Egidi - 3/3.625 (3.3125)
#5. Kao Lei - 3.125/3.625/3.0625 (3.2708)
#6. Glorgen - 2.875/3.125/3.5625 (3.1875)
#7. Byerek Runeweaver - 3/3.125/2.5 (2.875)
#8. Stardream - 2.75/2.875/2.687 (2.7706)

Rough panel, looks like 3.75 is the highest total award so far, and the next judge gave the same entry one of the lowest.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


It's more a matter of personal distaste and general principle. I'm firmly of the opinion that lycanthropy should not be a template, but a class, of which there are several I've seen that work very well for representing a "beastman" or some such concept.
I can understand that, it was the 'custom' bit that made me blink *growls at the humanity to*. Every use of that template by this definition would be custom, which means it's meant to be so.

I use it all the time in my Monster Advancement thread and it's always been one of my favorite templates, so ragging on it will get me going :smallwink:


he's good, but if he loses the initiative to Team Cleric...
Then what they gonna do, he's a construct by the end...
Oh, wait, 8th level. Yeah, think he would have done best to keep going with it.


and a flaw.
Looks like its a Trait actually, which is very different than a Flaw.


you used more than 10 books I believe.
Do you judges tend to rate low on multiple sources? I can understand if they were essential to the build, but I know I myself always scour a dozen or three books to pick out the perfect stuff to fit the fluff. Most of the time it has nothing to do with the power.

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 08:52 PM
Dr. Julius is leading? Wow, I did not expect that.

On a sidenote, how about Ardent Dilettante (Planar Handbook) for the next Iron Chef? Talk about diverse builds!

Keld Denar
2010-07-10, 08:57 PM
Do you judges tend to rate low on multiple sources? I can understand if they were essential to the build, but I know I myself always scour a dozen or three books to pick out the perfect stuff to fit the fluff. Most of the time it has nothing to do with the power.

I was wondering about this. If I knew I was gonna get hit SO freakin hard for this, I could have dialed it back to like, 4 books, but one of the main points of optimization is to creatively combine a bunch of little things from multiple sources in a way that is stronger than the sum of the parts.

I'm wondering if elegance was mistaken for simplicity. Duskblade20 is a simple gish. Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion5/SacredExorcist8 is an elegant gish. Its classes flow together in a streamlined fasion and it achieves strength that the simple the Duskblade can't compete with. Doesn't mean that the Duskblade is bad, just simple. This is an OPTIMIZATION exercise right?

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-10, 09:01 PM
Dr. Julius is leading? Wow, I did not expect that.
Yup, that 5 on Elegance from Humanity pushed him from 3rd to 1st.


On a sidenote, how about Ardent Dilettante (Planar Handbook) for the next Iron Chef? Talk about diverse builds!
Y'know, that's so obscure I've never read it?


If I knew I was gonna get hit SO freakin hard for this, I could have dialed it back to like, 4 books
You got that right.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 09:11 PM
Concerning books, no, I don't take that into account. I don't care, as long as you don't use 2nd/3rd party material, such as Dragon Magazine, Dragonlance, AEG, Green Ronin, etc. Hell, you can use Dragon Compendium if you'd like (and I'd be SO HAPPY if someone did).

To use the Iron Chef analogy, sometimes, an ingredient with a very distinctive taste comes from some backwater no one's ever heard of. Doesn't make it taste worse.

WinWin
2010-07-10, 09:12 PM
Tome of battle does feature in one of the builds. I wish it was mine.

true_shinken
2010-07-10, 09:15 PM
To use the Iron Chef analogy, sometimes, an ingredient with a very distinctive taste comes from some backwater no one's ever heard of. Doesn't make it taste worse.
This. Totally agree with Arguskos here. Some judges take points from just using books they don't like... I don't.



Y'know, that's so obscure I've never read it?

Oh, it's very interesting. And if you ever played Planescape: Torment, you'll love it even more!

Amphetryon
2010-07-10, 09:24 PM
I was wondering about this. If I knew I was gonna get hit SO freakin hard for this, I could have dialed it back to like, 4 books, but one of the main points of optimization is to creatively combine a bunch of little things from multiple sources in a way that is stronger than the sum of the parts.

I'm wondering if elegance was mistaken for simplicity. Duskblade20 is a simple gish. Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion5/SacredExorcist8 is an elegant gish. Its classes flow together in a streamlined fasion and it achieves strength that the simple the Duskblade can't compete with. Doesn't mean that the Duskblade is bad, just simple. This is an OPTIMIZATION exercise right?Elegance is the most nebulous and changing category, as my questions in the last contest might indicate. Elegance can appear to be directly at odds with Originality, depending on which contest and which judges one observes. This is in NO WAY meant as a disparagement against any of those who have volunteered to judge, past or present.

DISCLAIMER: HYPERBOLE FOR EMPHASIS
It can sometimes seem as if Stalwart Sorcerer 10/GSA 10 might be a particular judge's idea of a 5 for Elegance, while getting a 1 for Originality from one or more judge - possibly even the one(s) who would rate it a 5 on Elegance. Conversely, Evoker 3/Master Specialist 3/Sacred Exorcist 1/Divine Oracle 2/Mindbender 1/Sandshaper 1/GSA 9 would, possibly, get a 1 on Elegance even if it managed a 4 or 5 on Power and a 3 or 4 on originality.

It's a very difficult balancing act, and something of a guessing game on the part of the contestants.

WinWin
2010-07-10, 09:34 PM
I for one have no problem with the comments and scores that judges make. They are entitled to their opinion, just as I am. Constructive criticism can be a great form of feedback. I am not a special snowflake.

Elegance is subjective, as are many of the categories. The point of having so many judges is to gain an 'average' value from the opinions of many. It may not be perfect, but it prevents one judgement from determining the competion. It presents a better picture of the functionality of a build as a whole IMHO.

I for one, appreciate their time and effort. This is not a suck-up, I doubt you know my entry. Keep up the good work.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-10, 09:43 PM
Oh, it's very interesting. And if you ever played Planescape: Torment, you'll love it even more!
Huh, that is a fascinating PrC. It'd be especially good for this contest as it's so utterly open to varying builds. Its capstone kind of sucks, but very flavorful.

I very much encourage it for a future contest.


I for one have no problem with the comments and scores that judges make. They are entitled to their opinion, just as I am. Constructive criticism can be a great form of feedback. I am not a special snowflake.
Me neither, just a very pointy one. I'll debate criticism, but don't take offense at it. 99% of the time anyways. There are a few things I've made where individuals can see nothing good about it and border on trolling.

Ozymandias9
2010-07-10, 11:28 PM
I haven't gotten a chance to give a good look at the builds yet, but skimming looks impressive so far. I should be able to sit down in score Monday and/or Tuesday, and thus should my scores posted Wednesday at the latest.

Thanks you to all the contestants for completing.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-10, 11:46 PM
4 more days for results = :frown:

Akal Saris
2010-07-11, 12:23 AM
It's hard to really say the good doctor is really in 1st place when there's basically a 5-way tie at 3.39ish that could swing in any direction based on the next few judges.

Use of the Secret Ingredient scores seem to have averaged between 2 and 3, which suggests to me that the secret ingredient is largely Useless :smalltongue:

Keld Denar
2010-07-11, 12:44 AM
Yea, it was really hard to fit GSA in in a way that wouldn't be better filled by...ANYTHING else, and the 10th level actually makes your character WORSE rather than better. If you take the 10th level, you lose on power, if you don't, most of the judges so far have been brutal on use-of.

Ajadea
2010-07-11, 12:58 AM
I like the flavor of Green Star Adept. It just is horrible from a mechanical viewpoint. Use of the Secret Ingrediant is difficult. I must have run through three different builds, including one that I calculated to 15th level and thought it was a really good build before I realized I forgot to add any levels of GSA. :smalltongue: Yeah. Secret Ingrediant is Useless. Or at the very least, use-impaired.

arguskos
2010-07-11, 01:05 AM
Eh, except that several builds here have shown it has some usefulness. Starry Eyes managed to use it well. Byerek, Kao Lei, and Nicolo also all used it cleverly and to what strengths it has.

It's narrow, not useless. There's a difference IMO.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 01:42 AM
Speaking of narrow, updated with Humanity's votes for a couple place changes.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 02:07 AM
EDIT: upon hearing I pushed him to first with this, can you maybe PM the book list to a nonjudge (any) and have him post it?
Had a family medical emergency so sitting up for awhile and thought I might look this stuff up for you to kill some time.

Complete Arcane
Green Star Adept PrC

Drow of the Underdark
Imperious Command feat

Heroes of Horror
Dread Necromancer class

Libris Mortis
Tomb-Tainted Soul feat (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Tomb-tainted_Soul)

Lords of Madness
Fleshwarper PrC
Graft Flesh feat (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Graft_Flesh)

Netbook of Feats
Skill Mastery (heal) feat

Player's Guide to Eberron
Mastery of Day and Night feat

Player's Guide to Faerûn
Dreadful Wrath feat (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Dreadful_Wrath)

Keld Denar
2010-07-11, 02:15 AM
Ya missed something there Mr Tribble. GSA is in Complete Arcane, not CWarrior.

Its ok...*pats*

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 02:18 AM
Bloody Hades...

WinWin
2010-07-11, 02:27 AM
My entry is being beaten by a furry little halfling. Oh well, it happens to the best of them...Sauron for example.:smallsmile:

true_shinken
2010-07-11, 10:01 AM
Had a family medical emergency so sitting up for awhile and thought I might look this stuff up for you to kill some time.


Stuff from two different settings AND A NETBOOK?!
Heck, can I change my elegance score for him?




Use of the Secret Ingredient scores seem to have averaged between 2 and 3, which suggests to me that the secret ingredient is largely Useless :smalltongue:
Well, in a 1 to 5 scale, 2 or 3 should be the average score anyway.


Eh, except that several builds here have shown it has some usefulness. Starry Eyes managed to use it well. Byerek, Kao Lei, and Nicolo also all used it cleverly and to what strengths it has.

It's narrow, not useless. There's a difference IMO.
Xiajing also uses it well, avoiding ability damage from corrupt spells.

Amphetryon
2010-07-11, 10:13 AM
Well, in a 1 to 5 scale, 2 or 3 should be the average score anyway.
Fair enough viewpoint, but a counterpoint could be that, when none of the builds get even a 4 on 'Use of Secret Ingredient', it reads as if a better use was perceived and/or expected by the judges. Even if a given PrC sucks, it should be possible to get maximal use from it, relative to its merits. If it's not actually possible to get a 5 in a given category, that could be seen as indicating a problem with the scale.

true_shinken
2010-07-11, 10:22 AM
Fair enough viewpoint, but a counterpoint could be that, when none of the builds get even a 4 on 'Use of Secret Ingredient', it reads as if a better use was perceived and/or expected by the judges. Even if a given PrC sucks, it should be possible to get maximal use from it, relative to its merits. If it's not actually possible to get a 5 in a given category, that could be seen as indicating a problem with the scale.

Agreed. I expected more use of GSA's abilities, specially since I was working with a build of my own for this earlier.

Nerdanel
2010-07-11, 10:29 AM
It turns out that nobody did the build I was thinking about.

In case you're curious, my idea was to skip the obvious Duskblade etc. and go with a straight caster. I was thinking of a human Conjurer 6/Ruathar 1/Green Star Adept 10/Conjurer +2.

The character's schtick was supposed to be: "I cast Cloudkill centered on myself!!!1!"

The character was supposed to live in the Underdark with the sufferance of the Drow (Ruathar isn't picky about the subtype of elf, right?) where her darkvision would give her a potential advantage and specialize in various cloud spells she herself and her potential undead/construct minions were immune to on the idea that indiscriminate effects tend to be stronger. She would also use Listening Lorecall when needed and invest in the Listen skill so she wouldn't get blinded by her own Solid Fogs and the like.

When she was going to have reached level 10 of Green Star Adept she would have largely lied down for a while and done spell research in new cloud spells, which is why I docked her one level of XP. Meanwhile she would have aged into Venerable or past that and gained a free +3 to all mental stats.

I was going to call her punnily Stargyria. (Google argyria if you don't get it.)

Since new spells are heavily DM-dependant, I was only going to suggest general ideas for spells, like
- Stargyria's Greater Cloudkill
- Stargyria's Obedient Poison Cloud (moves as directed, hits a stat like Int)
- Stargyria's Energy Drain Cloud
- Stargyria's Zone of Calm (counter to those pesky winds that disperse clouds)

Those clouds could be layered upon each other, forcing people trying to melee her save against several things per round while her Green Star Adept defenses enable her to survive melee better than the typical wizard. Her save DCs should be level-appropriate too.

Her weakness would have been that she could only cast up to seventh level spells due to the lost caster levels and the hit to dexterity would have made her avoid rays. On the other hand, she would have been likely to hit with melee touch attacks for what's that worth. But well, at least she would have taken good use of Green Star Adept and perhaps been elegant too.

true_shinken
2010-07-11, 10:48 AM
It turns out that nobody did the build I was thinking about.
In case you're curious, my idea was to skip the obvious Duskblade etc. and go with a straight caster. I was thinking of a human Conjurer 6/Ruathar 1/Green Star Adept 10/Conjurer +2.
It is kind of what Xiaojing did. Conjurer 6/Ruathar 1 has base attack 3 and does not qualify for Arcanamach, though.

Sidenote: vote Ardent Dilettante for the next Iron Chef!

Nerdanel
2010-07-11, 11:31 AM
It is kind of what Xiaojing did. Conjurer 6/Ruathar 1 has base attack 3 and does not qualify for Arcanamach, though.

Sidenote: vote Ardent Dilettante for the next Iron Chef!

If I had actually posted my build I would have checked for that kind of thing... I misremembered the BAB of Ruathar 1. Oh well, it's not like that matters and due to my very very limited access to prestige classes it's not like I'm likely to be competing in the future.

Akal Saris
2010-07-11, 02:53 PM
I like that idea a lot, Nerdanel. I think going necropolitan (Libris Mortis) would be a good use for the overall build idea, since it gives the same immunity to poisons, plus then you can take the Lifesight feat, which is a lot like Blindsight, plus you'd only lose 3K experience to do so.

There's a lot of fog and cloud based spells out there that don't get much use, so a character based around them would be kind of cool.

So cool, in fact, that I just made a homebrew PrC for one! :smallbiggrin:

The Argyiamancer
4Hd/level, skills as a wizard + listen/spot/hide/move silently, Good will saves, 1/2 BAB
Requirements: Able to cast at least 3 cloud or fog type spells such as Stinking Cloud or Solid Fog, or their equivalent invocations. Caster level 5th.

What qualifies as a Fog or cloud spell: Such spells include, but are not limited to: Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog, Acid Fog, Cloudkill, and Incendiary Cloud. Work with your DM to determine whether spells from new sourcebooks fit in with the above spells. From the SC: Kelgore's Grave Mist, Cloud of Bewilderment, Malevolent Miasma, Contagious Fog, and Freezing Fog all fit the criteria.

1st level:
-Eyes in the Fog: You can see up to 20ft without problems in fog and clouds, both magical and non-magical. This increases by 10ft per level of the prestige class, up to 60ft at 5th level.
-Gas exposure: You become immune to inhaled poisons and spells that create inhaled poisons, such as Cloudkill.
-Spontaneous casting: You can spontaneously cast the following spells as a cleric does with cure or inflict spells. A sorcerer gains these spells as spells known when he is able to cast them, and a wizard adds these spells to his spellbook. A warlock may spontaneously cast these spells only if he has an invocation of the appropriate spell level to "sacrifice" - he cannot make use of that invocation again while the spell is still in effect.
1st: Obscuring Mist
2nd: Fog Cloud
3rd: Stinking Cloud
4th: Solid Fog
5th: Cloudkill
6th: Freezing Fog (SpC)
7th: Cloudkill, empowered
8th: Incendiary Cloud
9th: Cloudkill, empowered and maximized
- No casting advancement at 1st level.

2nd level:
-Mastery of Clouds: Your effective caster level for fog or cloud spells increases by 2.
-Deceptive Fog: When you cast any fog or cloud spell, you may choose to have it appear visually as an Obscuring Mist or Fog Cloud spell. The spell's effects (size, damage, range, etc) are unchanged.
- +1 Casting for any class

3rd level:
-Fog of War: Your fog and cloud spells are automatically widened with no additional cost.
- +1 Casting for an arcane or divine class.

4th level:
-At home in the clouds: You are immune to the effects of your own fog and cloud spells. You would not take damage from an Incendiary Cloud that you cast yourself, for example, and your vision would be unhindered by your own obscuring mist spell. This protection does not extend to your allies.
- +1 Casting for an arcane or divine class.

5th level:
-Choking clouds: You may choose 1 of the following effects to apply to your cloud or fog spells in addition to their normal effects:
-Creatures within the cloud must succeed on a fort save or be nauseated for 1 round and sickened for 2d4 rounds.
-Creatures within the cloud must succeed on a will save or be frightened for 1 round and shaken for 2d4 rounds
-Creatures within the cloud must succeed on a reflex save or be blinded for 1 round and dazzled for 2d4 rounds
- +1 Casting for an arcane or divine class.

Keld Denar
2010-07-11, 03:00 PM
The problem with major active use of the secret ingredient is that nearly all of the abilities are passive, or build upon something else. The +Spellcaster level and +CLs, the main abilities of the class, all augement another class, be it wizard, sorcerer, warlock, suel arcanamach, or sublime chord. The spells you get from those classes are gonna overshadow pretty much everything in the build because they are SPELLS.

The other abilities, besides the slam, are all passive. +Str and +NA are things that is hard to really showcase other than a note, same with the immunities. The slam attack, IMO, is one of the coolest features given that very few classes give you free natural attacks, and almost nobody made reference to having it or using it.

Its not a showcase class. Its has almost no active abilities of its own that bring it to the forefront in a build. If you emphasis its spellcasting, well, spellcasting is WAY better gotten from any other class. If you emphasis its resistances and immunties, you get most of them from the +0 LA Warforged class. There just isn't any good way to glorify something that can be gotten through other means, and we were all marked down a lot for it so far...

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 03:08 PM
Further ideas for that PrC...

Cloud Walk
Being able to walk on vapors such as clouds and your own spells.

Cloudy Casting
All spells using this metamagic affect create a small cloud around their affects that lasts for 1 round. Those that venture within the location of this cloud are affected by the spell, though gain a bonus to saves/take half damage or whatnot. Can do with some elaboration, just throwing out the idea. for example a fireball that whooshes out leaves a burning trail of smoke.

Amorphous Enamored
You may shape your cloud spells for free as if you had the Sculpt Spell (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Sculpt_Spell) metamagic feat.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-07-11, 03:10 PM
One of the things I've noticed about 1/2 casting classes... if used to advance a 10/10 casting class (assassin, suel archanamach, etc...), you don't end up loosing any caster levels, if you are careful. This lets you leverage the 1/2 casting prestige class abilities without sacrificing too much in the way of magical might.

Akal Saris
2010-07-11, 03:32 PM
The problem with major active use of the secret ingredient is that nearly all of the abilities are passive, or build upon something else. The +Spellcaster level and +CLs, the main abilities of the class, all augement another class, be it wizard, sorcerer, warlock, suel arcanamach, or sublime chord. The spells you get from those classes are gonna overshadow pretty much everything in the build because they are SPELLS.

The other abilities, besides the slam, are all passive. +Str and +NA are things that is hard to really showcase other than a note, same with the immunities. The slam attack, IMO, is one of the coolest features given that very few classes give you free natural attacks, and almost nobody made reference to having it or using it.

Its not a showcase class. Its has almost no active abilities of its own that bring it to the forefront in a build. If you emphasis its spellcasting, well, spellcasting is WAY better gotten from any other class. If you emphasis its resistances and immunties, you get most of them from the +0 LA Warforged class. There just isn't any good way to glorify something that can be gotten through other means, and we were all marked down a lot for it so far...

That sums up my feelings about the ingredient better than I could have expressed it myself.


Further ideas for that PrC...

Cloud Walk
Being able to walk on vapors such as clouds and your own spells.

Cloudy Casting
All spells using this metamagic affect create a small cloud around their affects that lasts for 1 round. Those that venture within the location of this cloud are affected by the spell, though gain a bonus to saves/take half damage or whatnot. Can do with some elaboration, just throwing out the idea. for example a fireball that whooshes out leaves a burning trail of smoke.

Amorphous Enamored
You may shape your cloud spells for free as if you had the Sculpt Spell (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Sculpt_Spell) metamagic feat.

I like those ideas!

Edit: Hey, now I'm a bugbear in the playground! Awesome! +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma, and favored class: rogue!

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 05:09 PM
Edit: Hey, now I'm a bugbear in the playground!
One day you'll grow up to be a big boy :smalltongue:

arguskos
2010-07-11, 05:27 PM
One day you'll grow up to be a big boy :smalltongue:
*looks at Vorpal's post count; looks at own; sighs*

One day, one day.

Also, awaiting Ingus and Ozymandias, yes?

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 05:54 PM
Also, awaiting Ingus and Ozymandias, yes?
Ingus says probably monday. Ozy says tues or wednesday.


The Humanity still needs to weigh in on two of the builds.

Ingus
2010-07-11, 07:04 PM
My entry.

I have to say, in advance, that I liked all and every submissions. If it was me to judge, without parameter, I probably had a different chart. Following Iron Chef rules will be painful for me, so take at least some judgements as harsh, but necessary.

Byerek
Originality: 2.5. Duskblade and Abjurant Champion are tipical associations to GSA. Max strength, power attack and wraithstrike are also typical. Sorry to tell you, but despite paladin, this was not so original.
Power: 4.5. The reason because your choiches are so common is because they work. This PC should make most enemies break and run, this is why the score.
Elegance: 2. No good backstory, one dip in Suel Arcanamach and Abjurant Champion in the middle of GSA does not help you. The rest is ok, as far I can see, so you're just a 0.5 under average.
Use of secret ingredient: 2.5 You just use Strenght modifier to a good extent and the rest seems to be there and mostly unused. You choose to not go all 10 and since it would hit you very hard, I feel it is a good decision, so, counted, there is a +0.5

Starryeyes
Oh my, oh my.
Originality: 5. Halfling: not expected. Bard: not expected. Saint: really not expected. Keeper of the Cerulean Sign: are you kiddin'? And, besides, if weren't for the link... what the hell is a chordevoc?!?
Power: 3. Your attacks are weak and I feel you really could do something better to fix it. Nevertheless, your AC and defences (mobility is a defence) are really strong. Other powers are too situationals to be effective. Just to say, an encounter via mirror of opposition would kill you - for boredom, and along with anyone else.
Elegance: 4.5. This is where backstory makes points. Since it is the best I ever saw, I really wanted to give you better. But the one dip in ranger would cause this Pc to have a penality in XP for multiclassing. Really, really sorry.
Use of secret ingredient: 3.5. This is the best use of secret ingredient since now. It is for flavour reasons and because it seems that backstory came first and then the GSA.

Mordenstein
Where have I read this? :smallbiggrin:
Originality: 4. I would rate you better, but my first thought was dread necromancer and grafts. You didn't used the grafts I was thinking, but this hurts a bit. You would have had a minus there if weren't for Fleshwarper. This part was totally unexpected (and so, congrats)
Power: 4. This thing is scary. By any meaning. It isn't too high since by 20th level core tactics are usually hijacked by things like deathward and mind blank and since I see no melee.
Elegance: 3. It would be more, but I really would have liked to know how the DOC does in melee and how can he resist. No stats means more "figure it out" for me, so less elegance
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5 Best use, ex aequo. Clever exploitation and good consistency with backstory and overall idea.

Stardream
Originality: 2. As already said, duskblade was totally expected: a free feat is a free feat. Knight was too, to a certain extent and fighter was all except unexpected.
Power: 2.5. You could do better. Caster levels are not optimized, nor is your attack source and output. I don't like Monkey Grip since you can find somewere else something better (MIC, bracers, take a look) and since a -2 to attack is never good. That said, a solid build, so you take average point.
Elegance: 2.5. Erratic level progression. I personally distasted the knight/GSA alternation, since it seemed not tied to any usefulness and nor tied to the story. Story that was quite good, besides, which brings you on par.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. I was thinking a 2.5, and this is written in my notepad. Besides, you managed to explain why he goes GSA in an original way and I really feel this is a good story-related use of secret ingredient.

Kao Lei
I didn't liked this entry at all. I feel I still don't like it, but in some way I consider it a solid entry.
Originaity: 3.5. Savage bard and paladin of freedom came from nowhere. As already said, Abjurant Champion was really expected and that penalizes you.
Power: 3.5. This is very good, expecially the one level of Sublime chord. Good tactics, good versatility, good combat notes to be better used.
Elegance: 3. Too erratic, too many dips. Necessaries, I concur, but a penalty. Since all the rest is ok, that would not be an advantage, not a disvantage. I liked the effort on your backstory, which grants you a +0.5, but if I can, next time try to be more catching :smallwink:
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. Better without, but thematically good choiche.

Glorgen
Originality: 4. Are you kidding me? The only thing I was expecting was warlock, not even my first though. It is... I'm speechless. You can curse chordevocs and eldritch glaive if you haven't got a 5.
Power: 4. Eldritch glaive to power attack with is a renown, powerful resource. And it is painful. I'm not quite sure if it is legal, but in my games there is ever something worst, so go for it.
Elegance: 3.5. The eldritch glaive use is a penalty here, since it is questionable. Another penalty is your backstory: I really feel there was room for something special, something better. But only 3 classes, a not too erratic leveling and good concept mesh are all a plus.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. Sorry, it seems your entry would be way better without GSA, there is no strong and tasteful tight with backstory (one of the spots you could improve) and, overall, it seems you're a warlock unadvertedly dipped in GSA.

Wu
I liked it, but you could do it better (really hope to see you work again)
Originality: 4.5 Wu Jen + Anima Mage. Quite self explainatory.
Power: 3.5. You would have better, but there is something that does not work as you intended.
Elegance: 1.5. Anima mage early qualification is a major problem. It does not work as you intended, since you seem to bind vestiges and choose what power they grant to you, unless to stick with the table of the feat. Moreover, even if your DM allows you this early qualification method, your first leve of Anima Mage is also your first level in full binder (you can't continue in the "one power" line, since you would come to vestiges unrated in the table... and then?). Spell selection is a problem too. The story is good, which is a + 0.5 for you.
Really sorry to under-rate you this way.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5 Your entry seems like "how to enter GSA without getting too hurt by that". I can really understand why, believe me, but still it get you on the average level.

Nicolo
This is my second favourite build. Really. Really sorry to underrate it.
Originality: 4. Ok, can you explain it again? Not I didn't catch it and hexblade was expected, but still... Hey, you even managed to use Black Dog, which I really had missed. Moreover, poison use as core center? Uhm...
Power: 3. Nicolo is not to be underestimated, but he's basically a one trick pony and some taste added. I like the taste, even if it is poison, but I can't overrate it.
Elegance: 3.5. Very well put together, but the lack of final stats is a minus for me. Despite this, your backstory is the epitome of "few good words", as I was saying before the entries.
Use of secret ingredient: 3. Great effort to keep it relevant, great thematic use, but sorry, it still is GSA and I feel you used slightly worst than Starryeyes and Mordenstein.

As a final word, congratulations to everybody. My ratings are low in Use of secret ingredient, and I think no other judge had rated too high either. I figured out that the only way to use GSA's ability is to abuse them (artificer+many, many grafts, first idea; or shuffle to half ogre, put in war hulk). It would have been rated quite poor in elegance, so you did it good. :smallwink:

Ingus
2010-07-11, 07:05 PM
Ingus says probably monday. Ozy says tues or wednesday.


The Humanity still needs to weigh in on two of the builds.

Did it in advance:smallbiggrin:

Akal Saris
2010-07-11, 07:22 PM
For what it's worth Ingus, your judging put a smile on my face. My build didn't get your highest rating, but you noticed something that I liked in my build that the other judges didn't really notice :smalltongue:

So, was judging less work than being a contestant?

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 07:31 PM
Thank ya sir...

New Tally
#1. Little Starry-Eyes - 3.5/3.5/3.5/4 (3.625)
#2. Dr. Julius Mordenstein - 3.375/3.375/3.625/3.625 (3.5)
#3. Nicolo Egidi - 3/3.625/3.375 (3.3)
#4. Kao Lei - 3.125/3.625/3.0625/3.25 (3.265)
#5. Xiajing Wu - 3.75/3/3 (3.25)
#6. Glorgen - 2.875/3.125/3.5625/3.375 (3.234)
#7. Byerek Runeweaver - 3/3.125/2.5/2.875 (2.875)
#8. Stardream Kaurrek - 2.75/2.875/2.687/2.5 (2.688)


Dang but these are close...

WinWin
2010-07-11, 08:10 PM
I'm surprised no-one mentioned dust of sneezing and choking. It is an item, but a GSA can use it without penalty.

Arbitrarity
2010-07-11, 08:19 PM
I'm surprised no-one mentioned dust of sneezing and choking. It is an item, but a GSA can use it without penalty.

.....


Not practical optimization.

true_shinken
2010-07-11, 08:20 PM
One of the things I've noticed about 1/2 casting classes... if used to advance a 10/10 casting class (assassin, suel archanamach, etc...), you don't end up loosing any caster levels, if you are careful. This lets you leverage the 1/2 casting prestige class abilities without sacrificing too much in the way of magical might.

Yeah, I caught onto that while writing the Suel Arcanamach handbook. Really makes 1/2 casting classes shine.

Amphetryon
2010-07-11, 08:23 PM
I'm surprised no-one mentioned dust of sneezing and choking. It is an item, but a GSA can use it without penalty.

Dust of Sneezing and Coughing is so often referenced as banned that I always figure it exists in that nebulous null-space where Highlander 2 allegedly resides. :smallwink:

Private-Prinny
2010-07-11, 08:24 PM
I'm surprised no-one mentioned dust of sneezing and choking. It is an item, but a GSA can use it without penalty.

Dust of Cheesing and Choking is already broken enough. My guess is that the contestants would feel dirty resorting to something like that.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-11, 09:43 PM
Not to mention if your build optimization relies on the ability to buy items anyone else of their level can purchase it's not much of a build...

Private-Prinny
2010-07-11, 09:46 PM
Not to mention if your build optimization relies on the ability to buy items anyone else of their level can purchase it's not much of a build...

That's not quite true. By that logic, any and all poison users should not be classified as a build.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-07-11, 09:49 PM
I know that, as a Judge, if I saw any build relying on Dust of Sneezing and Choking as a primary method of attack, they would find my critique... sharp and dry.

First off, it's expensive. 2,400 gp per use. That's more than a Forcecage.

Second off, there's lots of things immune to it. Undead and Constructs spring promptly to mind, but also Oozes, Elementals, and a whole host of other things, including anyone with a Necklace of Adaptation.

Third off, it's right up there with Candle Gate Chains as far as Known Cheese

I doubt anyone could end up with higher than a 1 on Elegance, and it wouldn't significantly increase the Power score either.

WinWin
2010-07-12, 01:42 AM
Magic dust is a lot cheaper than decent posion. It is also a lot cheaper than a decent magical item. It counts as a consumable item, so it would fall into the consumable portion of WBL. Considering that it can trivialise some high level encounters it is worth the cost.

I mean, If you're going to spam Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog and various other status effects centred on yourself, splashing out on some Dust on occasion is neither cheesey nor frivolous.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-12, 02:24 AM
That's not quite true. By that logic, any and all poison users should not be classified as a build.
Well 'poison' is a pretty broad spectrum. Far more so than 'magic dust'.

Akal Saris
2010-07-12, 02:34 AM
Well 'poison' is a pretty broad spectrum. Far more so than 'magic dust'.

Indeed. My rogue's 'poison' inventory includes everything from asahi to johnny walker, while his 'magic dust' inventory has been confiscated by the FBI.




Edit: And dear God, what happened to my portrait?! It's a close-up now! Did DLing IE 8 somehow screw with my Firefox settings?!

Ingus
2010-07-12, 03:40 AM
For what it's worth Ingus, your judging put a smile on my face. My build didn't get your highest rating, but you noticed something that I liked in my build that the other judges didn't really notice :smalltongue:


Glad to know, but now you're revealing yourself. Shame on you! :smalltongue:



So, was judging less work than being a contestant?



Definitely not. Different thing, though. As a contestant, you have the thrilling: "Would it work? Would they like it?" ... and the concentration too: "Damn'it there should be something somewhere that allow me to..."

As a judge, you trade it all in exchange for the surprise, the xmas-eve-like wait and for the bittersweet duty of rating. As I said in advance, I really hoped that my favourites wouldn't screw it up and sadly a couple of these did.
So no: judging is really worthwhile. I'll do it whenever I can't figure it out a good idea for the challenge.



I'm surprised no-one mentioned dust of sneezing and choking. It is an item, but a GSA can use it without penalty.

It is a death move in most of the situations. As item, it is banned by default in any game, except for the straight curse use. It is "funny" (to a sadistic DM, at least) if someone uses it thinking it is a useful tool. It is not if you use it to bring down a Great Wyrm who would be way over your reach (I guess that with 5d4 rounds of uncontested combat, you can do it).

By the way, Akal, I'll leave your avatar this way. It seemed done by purpose.

WinWin
2010-07-12, 04:03 AM
It is a death move in most of the situations. As item, it is banned by default in any game, except for the straight curse use. It is "funny" (to a sadistic DM, at least) if someone uses it thinking it is a useful tool. It is not if you use it to bring down a Great Wyrm who would be way over your reach (I guess that with 5d4 rounds of uncontested combat, you can do it).


I ban nothing. I guess I'm a sadistic DM lol

Strategos
2010-07-12, 08:01 AM
IAnd dear God, what happened to my portrait?! It's a close-up now! Did DLing IE 8 somehow screw with my Firefox settings?!

Nope, it's because of this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159789) change to the forums. Internet Explorer isn't to blame for once. :smalltongue:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-12, 08:41 AM
As a contestant, you have the thrilling: "Would it work? Would they like it?" ... and the concentration too: "Damn'it there should be something somewhere that allow me to..."
That's half the reason I started all my homebrew. Despite so many options by so many books... I still would come up with character concepts that had absolutely no equivalent and would sadden me.


I ban nothing. I guess I'm a sadistic DM lol
I already know I am. I'd allow it in a heartbeat. So many ways to get around stuff like that though.

That's why I like playing under sadistic DM's as well. Don't feel bad for them when I come up with something that totally throws him for a loop but is perfectly legit.

okpokalypse
2010-07-12, 09:12 AM
So When's Iron Chef OC VIII getting released? :smallsmile:

Can we make a request for something Psionic :smallwink:

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-12, 09:18 AM
I dunno, not too good with psionics...

Heh... ha... haha... hahahaha... BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :belkar:

Amphetryon
2010-07-12, 09:30 AM
That's one vote for Psionics, a couple votes for Ardent Dilettante, and two for Scion of Tem-Et-Nu so far, by my quick count.

We'll have to see what Prinny has in store for us.

WinWin
2010-07-12, 09:41 AM
That's why I like playing under sadistic DM's as well. Don't feel bad for them when I come up with something that totally throws him for a loop but is perfectly legit.
Yesterday 11:01 PM

It keeps the game exiting I think. I love it when players keep me guessing. Keeping the players on their toes can be challenging too.

As for the next IC, I'm happy to play with anything in the sourcebooks I own or can borrow. I'll have to borrow MoP for Ardent Dilletante if that comes up though. Psionics are cool too, but I don't recognise the other PrC mentioned.

Ingus
2010-07-12, 11:00 AM
That's half the reason I started all my homebrew. Despite so many options by so many books... I still would come up with character concepts that had absolutely no equivalent and would sadden me.



I would like too, but as a player I have much difficulties to make my DM understand what I'm supposed to do and as a DM myself, I have players which could easily take it as cheating (they prefer I pick up homebrew from others to mine, go figure...)

To the others: please private-post Prinny for the next secret ingredient

Akal Saris
2010-07-12, 11:23 AM
My concern is that Arcane Dillettente requires very specific abilities to fully progress it. Since contestants generally get more points from going 10/10 of a PrC, they'll all have to spent the other 10 levels assuring that the reach the end point of AD, which will probably limit the builds a bit.

Amphetryon
2010-07-12, 11:45 AM
My concern is that Arcane Dillettente requires very specific abilities to fully progress it. Since contestants generally get more points from going 10/10 of a PrC, they'll all have to spent the other 10 levels assuring that the reach the end point of AD, which will probably limit the builds a bit.Which will limit Originality a bit.

arguskos
2010-07-12, 11:50 AM
I like Ardent Dilettante personally. I think you could fulfill everything quite well too with a large number of possible combinations, but that's just my faith in 3.5. Also, screw Scion. :smallyuk:

true_shinken
2010-07-12, 12:11 PM
My concern is that Arcane Dillettente requires very specific abilities to fully progress it. Since contestants generally get more points from going 10/10 of a PrC, they'll all have to spent the other 10 levels assuring that the reach the end point of AD, which will probably limit the builds a bit.

Which will limit Originality a bit.

Au contraire! Like we saw with Master of Masks, this increases originality as people take less well-know routes and results in thinking outside the box, which I think is basically the premise behind Iron Chef.
Going 10/10 is an option, and considering Ardent Dilettant, it's a hard choice wetter to do it or not. I think it would be a very good choice for secret ingredient.
The requirements, though increasingly difficult, are never impossible or anything. Levels in a couple skills, arcane casting or divine casting. With a few tricks, you could do it single-classed really.

Amphetryon
2010-07-12, 02:25 PM
Au contraire! Like we saw with Master of Masks, this increases originality as people take less well-know routes and results in thinking outside the box, which I think is basically the premise behind Iron Chef.
Going 10/10 is an option, and considering Ardent Dilettant, it's a hard choice wetter to do it or not. I think it would be a very good choice for secret ingredient.
The requirements, though increasingly difficult, are never impossible or anything. Levels in a couple skills, arcane casting or divine casting. With a few tricks, you could do it single-classed really.
I'll wait until after the reveal to give a better explanation of why I stand by my original comment.

The Vorpal Tribble
2010-07-12, 10:19 PM
Hey Humanity, still with us, bud?