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View Full Version : [3.5] Non-exotic bludgeoning reach weapon



Keld Denar
2010-07-02, 08:54 PM
Name says it all, I'm looking for a non-exotic bludgeoning reach weapon. Attacking close doesn't matter. I know about the Long Staff, but IIRC it is exotic. Anything?

Any official source, no Dragon Mag material please. Lucern Hammer would be ideal, but its stats only appear in a Dragon Mag.

Its has to be bludgeoning, but can be B/S or B/P as well.

arguskos
2010-07-02, 08:57 PM
...Dragon Compendium is an official WotC book? Why the prohibition?

As for others... the Lucerne Hammer is actually printed originally for 3e in the Arms and Equipment Guide. :smalltongue: They listed it as Piercing, but seriously, the damn thing has a hammer on the end. It's Bludgeoning, and if your DM is THAT pedantic, then I doubt I can help you.

Keld Denar
2010-07-02, 09:00 PM
Eh, can't slide the rules for it in this case...has to be legit. And no, Dragon Compendium doesn't count.

Jack Zander
2010-07-02, 09:01 PM
Eh, can't slide the rules for it in this case...has to be legit. And no, Dragon Compendium doesn't count.

Except you aren't sliding the rules. It's clearly a typo.

Boci
2010-07-02, 09:02 PM
...Dragon Compendium is an official WotC book? Why the prohibition?

Probably because it has a really bad reputation for game balance, plus it harder to get hard copies of it, and there is just so many of them. Many DMs find it a lot more easier to just say no.


Except you aren't sliding the rules. It's clearly a typo.

Yeah, if you're DM is that RAW abiding there is a really good weapon in sandstorm that does 1d43 lethal damage.

To contribute (or sort of): Why is reach important, because you could just wield a blugeoning weapon and get a natural reach, or were you going to combine those two?

arguskos
2010-07-02, 09:08 PM
Eh, can't slide the rules for it in this case...has to be legit. And no, Dragon Compendium doesn't count.
...uh... your DM is so pedantic he is unwilling to look at the presented picture, which very clearly has a hammer on it, and say "no no, it's obviously piercing"? That's... really REALLY questionable on his part. What is his objection to changing one thing to suit your character and logic? :smallconfused: I understand the Dragon thing (stupid as it is to not check a single piece of material, but sure, he's busy or whatever, that's legit), but really? The hammer is the only viable option here, but due to what's quite likely a typo, you're shafted.

Other options: nothing I can find anywhere. I've checked every book I can think might have weapons in it. The Ramhammer was exotic. The Longstaff is both from Dragon Compendium and is exotic. The Lucerne Hammer is not permitted. The dwarven reach hammer thing from Races of Stone is exotic. Think you're out of luck.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-02, 09:09 PM
...a Large greatclub wielded by a Large creature? <_<

sofawall
2010-07-02, 09:13 PM
That is not a reach weapon.

arguskos
2010-07-02, 09:15 PM
Yeah, ok, just finished checking every book I own that has new weapons. While it's not a complete list of all 3.5 materials, it's pretty extensive, and I cannot find a weapon that does what you need it to do. They're all either the Lucerne Hammer or Exotic. :smallfrown:

Boci
2010-07-02, 09:16 PM
That is not a reach weapon.

But it has reach, and since such a weapon the OP described does not appear to exist...
Alternativly, are there any ways to change the damage type of a weapon?

sofawall
2010-07-02, 09:26 PM
But it has reach

Not, it does not. A greatclub has no reach. A large creature, sure, he has some reach. The greatclub? No.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-02, 09:28 PM
Wait, I thought the longstaff from CArc was usable by anyone who could use a quarterstaff, but gained additional benefits if you took the EWP for it.

2xMachina
2010-07-02, 09:29 PM
Kusari Gama?

Slash/Bludge I think. 2 handed for reach.

Boci
2010-07-02, 09:30 PM
Not, it does not. A greatclub has no reach. A large creature, sure, he has some reach. The greatclub? No.

Sorry, 4 in the morning. I meant what you said. It has the affect of reach.

AustontheGreat1
2010-07-02, 09:34 PM
A regular club has a range of 10ft. and is free (because it's a stick). You could throw it. :smallsmile:

arguskos
2010-07-02, 09:36 PM
The Longstaff, upon a double-check, is not actually a reach weapon in any incarnation I have of it. Further, it's exotic (it counts as a quarterstaff for the purposes of several feats, nothing more).

AustontheGreat1
2010-07-02, 09:43 PM
Why not just spring for the exotic weapon proficiency? Personally, I love taking that feat. It makes me feel like I deserve to be wielding the weapon. Then again, I can't stand optimization. To the point of frequently gimping my character intentionally. I take toughness for goodness sake.

sofawall
2010-07-02, 09:44 PM
Kusari Gama?

Slash/Bludge I think. 2 handed for reach.

Exotic, so no.

arguskos
2010-07-02, 09:48 PM
Why not just spring for the exotic weapon proficiency? Personally, I love taking that feat. It makes me feel like I deserve to be wielding the weapon. Then again, I can't stand optimization. To the point of frequently gimping my character intentionally. I take toughness for goodness sake.
Probably, there either is a DM restriction to not do so or he can't spare the feat slot (much more likely).

Personally, I agree with you, so I created a bunch of new weapons that are actually deserving of the title of "exotic" and just use those. :smalltongue:

Siosilvar
2010-07-02, 09:49 PM
...uh... your DM is so pedantic he is unwilling to look at the presented picture, which very clearly has a hammer on it, and say "no no, it's obviously piercing"? That's... really REALLY questionable on his part. What is his objection to changing one thing to suit your character and logic? :smallconfused: I understand the Dragon thing (stupid as it is to not check a single piece of material, but sure, he's busy or whatever, that's legit), but really? The hammer is the only viable option here, but due to what's quite likely a typo, you're shafted.

Lucerne Hammers are not really hammers, as far as I know; they're more like hammers with spikes on the corners. Thus, piercing damage.

Zaq
2010-07-02, 09:54 PM
Maybe magic is the way to go. There are a couple items from the MIC that give you reach, with various restrictions... or you could take that one weapon enchantment (Skillful, I think?) that makes you auto-proficient, then just use one of the exotic ones.

Oh, or use the spell Earth Hammer on a non-bludgeoning reach weapon. Makes it bludgeoning, among other things.

...seriously, though, I agree with Boci. If your GM insists on following the tables that closely, show him the 1d43 weapon, and if/when he refuses to allow it, ask him what the difference is.

Or just homebrew it. It's not overpowered. I can think of two things that bludgeoning weapons can do that piercing or slashing weapons can't do, and neither of those is worth making a fuss over.

AustontheGreat1
2010-07-02, 09:59 PM
:smallconfused: Out of curiosity, why is it so important that it be a bludgeoning reach weapon?

Zaq
2010-07-02, 10:00 PM
:smallconfused: Out of curiosity, why is it so important that it be a bludgeoning reach weapon?

I would guess he wants a reach weapon because reach weapons are good, and bludgeoning for Greater Mighty Wallop and/or Brutal Strike.

That is merely a guess, though. I, too, am curious.

Keld Denar
2010-07-02, 10:05 PM
Yup yup, Zaq got it right. GMWallop use. I'll have multiple weapons that qualify, and I want to use it on all of them.

And RAW only because its a build challenge among some of my college buddies. No houserules in build challenges.

arguskos
2010-07-02, 10:32 PM
Eh... I'm pretty sure you're shafted. I don't think any such weapon exists if you're unwilling to use the updated version of the Lucerne Hammer. Everything is either exotic or disallowed.

Can you not spare a feat, though? Or use the Weapon Groups from Unearthed Arcana (not sure if those are permitted)? There's gotta be a feat you can cut somewhere.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-02, 10:57 PM
Tentacles are bludgeoning weapons. Cast evard's menacing tentacles or something.

Keld Denar
2010-07-02, 11:04 PM
Fax, I love you...

Anyone know if you can use a Slam attack if your hands are full?


Slap or Slam
The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage


Could I attack with say...a greatclub, then slam with either my foot or my shoulder or something?

nyjastul69
2010-07-02, 11:06 PM
Eh... I'm pretty sure you're shafted. I don't think any such weapon exists if you're unwilling to use the updated version of the Lucerne Hammer. Everything is either exotic or disallowed.

Can you not spare a feat, though? Or use the Weapon Groups from Unearthed Arcana (not sure if those are permitted)? There's gotta be a feat you can cut somewhere.

Where is the updated version of the lucerne hammer?

Coidzor
2010-07-03, 02:05 AM
Fax, I love you...

Anyone know if you can use a Slam attack if your hands are full?



Could I attack with say...a greatclub, then slam with either my foot or my shoulder or something?

Natural attacks, as long as the natural attack appendage isn't used to make a weapon attack it's fair game to be used.

2xMachina
2010-07-03, 02:43 AM
Where are you getting the slam attack from?

PId6
2010-07-03, 07:17 AM
Where are you getting the slam attack from?
Warforged maybe?

rat-morningstar
2010-07-03, 07:57 AM
what about using a quarterstaff as a 2 handed weapon?

idk about the specific rules, but logically speaking it should have a reach, no?

PId6
2010-07-03, 08:07 AM
what about using a quarterstaff as a 2 handed weapon?

idk about the specific rules, but logically speaking it should have a reach, no?
By the rules, a quarterstaff is not a reach weapon, and D&D != Logical.

hamishspence
2010-07-03, 08:30 AM
The Ramhammer in Planar Handbook is unfortunately exotic.

the A&EG version of the Lucerne Hammer was piercing I think because it assumed you were only using the pick side of it- calling it a "picklike weapon" and saying it was "used to pierce heavy armour"

The "piercing OR bludgeoning" updated version in Dragon Compendium makes more sense- but if Dragon Compendium is not available, this is a problem.

Cieyrin
2010-07-03, 09:30 AM
Fax, I love you...

Anyone know if you can use a Slam attack if your hands are full?



Could I attack with say...a greatclub, then slam with either my foot or my shoulder or something?

I assume Slams work the same as Unarmed Strikes do in relation to that, as Unarmed Strikes are not always with your fists. Feet, knees, elbows, head, whatever. You could do Pelvic Thrusts if you wanted.

Slams are slightly restricted from where you get them from, as that could be locked to a specific appendage, like if you got them from tentacles. Warforged and Zombies don't say where they get their slams from, so you can slam with whatever. Which, incidentally, gives me an idea for a Warforged named Hammerhead...

true_shinken
2010-07-03, 09:36 AM
Slams are slightly restricted from where you get them from, as that could be locked to a specific appendage, like if you got them from tentacles. Warforged and Zombies don't say where they get their slams from, so you can slam with whatever. Which, incidentally, gives me an idea for a Warforged named Hammerhead...
Warforged slams are done with the fists. Example characters (such as vampires in the MM) support the idea that slams need hands free.

2xMachina
2010-07-03, 10:04 AM
I think it does say it uses both fists to slam. (Or I somehow got it from somewhere).

Prodan
2010-07-03, 10:05 AM
I think it does say it uses both fists to slam. (Or I somehow got it from somewhere).

Like Captain Kirk from Star Trek.

Hague
2010-07-03, 10:07 AM
A ten-foot pole is a simple reach weapon but you will always take a non-proficiency penalty with it. Same way with a 10 foot ladder.

However, if you are a Drunken Master, everything is a weapon!

Lhurgyof
2010-07-03, 10:16 AM
...However, if you are a Drunken Master, everything is a weapon!
I love them! :D

Coidzor
2010-07-03, 11:15 AM
Warforged slams are done with the fists. Example characters (such as vampires in the MM) support the idea that slams need hands free.

Well, one can Unarmed strike with a fist by letting go of a two handed weapon as a free action, so...????

Fax Celestis
2010-07-03, 03:00 PM
Fax, I love you...

http://maaadddog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/1245840777009.jpg

Fax Celestis
2010-07-03, 03:02 PM
I think it does say it uses both fists to slam. (Or I somehow got it from somewhere).


Slap or Slam

The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.
You just have to hit them with a limb. One limb. So, even a kick will work.

2xMachina
2010-07-03, 03:34 PM
But usually, the monster states which limb is used.
I seem to remember that Warforged uses both fists to slam, but I might be wrong.

Paul H
2010-07-03, 03:36 PM
Hi

Ever thought about having Enlarge Person cast on yourself? As Large Person you gain reach......

The simplest solutions are often the best.......... :smallsmile:

Cheers
Paul H

Fax Celestis
2010-07-03, 03:44 PM
But usually, the monster states which limb is used.
I seem to remember that Warforged uses both fists to slam, but I might be wrong.

Nope. It says no such thing.


A warforged has a natural weapon in the form on a slam attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.

Keld Denar
2010-07-03, 06:52 PM
Getting the slam attack from Strength Devotion. Its available on demand, and scales with level. Another feat in INA: Slam makes it a pretty decent deal for a close range weapon you can never be disarmed of, and gives you an extra attack on a full attack (albiet at -5, but no worse than your 2nd iterative).

That is assuming I can make my full Greatclub iteratives along with my slam.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-03, 07:24 PM
That is assuming I can make my full Greatclub iteratives along with my slam.

Gray area. A "slam" is ostensibly backhanding someone with your fist, but it says "with a limb". You've got four limbs, only two of which are used holding the greatclub. No reason you couldn't just call your slam attack another version of Snap Kick, tbh.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-03, 08:05 PM
Illithid Grapple grants a 10' reach tentacle attack. It's in CPsi.

There're also soulmelds that grant things like tail slap attacks.