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Zexion
2010-07-02, 08:57 PM
Hey GitP!
I'm going to be taking part in a gestalt game very soon, and I need some help with optimization. This might take the form of a "vote up a ____" thread, but for now...

It is a gestalt game, with one other player. Barbarian is a mandatory class each level up, so it's still technically gestalt, but without complete choice. We've rolled up stats, and I got what I think is pretty good:
18, 18, 16, 15, 12, 8 :smalleek:

So I'm thinking of a Fighter (seems a little redundant...), Cleric (can't cast spells in a rage), Druid (see Cleric), or Ranger. Any thoughts?

Quirinus_Obsidian
2010-07-02, 09:06 PM
Not everything has to be a spellcaster :smalltongue:

I recommend 5 or 6 levels of Warblade (enough to get Iron Heart Surge) and the rest Swordsage for the Setting Sun throws and bonuses to saves and skill points.

If you *must* have some kind of quasi-magical ability; Totemist makes for an interesting build. As does Psion.

PId6
2010-07-02, 09:08 PM
Bard. You'll have all good saves, more skill points with a bigger list, some spellcasting (especially buffs), and bardic music (note: you can still use bardic music while Raging, since you don't actually need Perform checks).

Zexion
2010-07-02, 09:11 PM
Not everything has to be a spellcaster :smalltongue:

I recommend 5 or 6 levels of Warblade (enough to get Iron Heart Surge) and the rest Swordsage for the Setting Sun throws and bonuses to saves and skill points.

If you *must* have some kind of quasi-magical ability; Totemist makes for an interesting build. As does Psion.
Warblade would be useful for the first five or six levels, although maybe my character would take Bard for the rest. :smalltongue:

gallagher
2010-07-02, 09:15 PM
Hey GitP!
I'm going to be taking part in a gestalt game very soon, and I need some help with optimization. This might take the form of a "vote up a ____" thread, but for now...

It is a gestalt game, with one other player. Barbarian is a mandatory class each level up, so it's still technically gestalt, but without complete choice. We've rolled up stats, and I got what I think is pretty good:
18, 18, 16, 15, 12, 8 :smalleek:

So I'm thinking of a Fighter (seems a little redundant...), Cleric (can't cast spells in a rage), Druid (see Cleric), or Ranger. Any thoughts?

swordsage would be good, as raging setting sun would be hilarious. also, since you will probably be using light armor (mithral chainshirt FTW) you can also get wisdom added on. i would the suggest putting the 16 in WIS, have 18 in STR and CON, 15 in DEX (and put one of your ability points when you hit a fourth level into it to get extra) and the 12 in INT. you dont need CHA

Awnetu
2010-07-02, 10:17 PM
What about a Champion of Gwynharwyf? Book of Exalted Deeds pg 56.

Zexion
2010-07-02, 10:18 PM
swordsage would be good, as raging setting sun would be hilarious. also, since you will probably be using light armor (mithral chainshirt FTW) you can also get wisdom added on. i would the suggest putting the 16 in WIS, have 18 in STR and CON, 15 in DEX (and put one of your ability points when you hit a fourth level into it to get extra) and the 12 in INT. you dont need CHA
Sounds good. Raging setting sun... :smalltongue:

Grumman
2010-07-02, 10:25 PM
Spirit Lion Totem, Streetfighter Barbarian // Light Cavalry Scout / Ranger, with Swift Hunter. Go for ludicrous damage on the charge.

lsfreak
2010-07-02, 10:39 PM
For barbarian:
Whirling Frenzy ACF, SRD. Gives an additional attack and can replicate a monk's flurry if you're going swordsage.
Wolf Totem ACF, SRD. Replace uncanny dodge with Improved Trip. Also fits very well with swordsage.
Lion Totem ACF, CC. Replace fast movement and get pounce. Fits anything, really.
Cityscape web enchancement: Lots of charging boosters. Especially good if you can't PrC on your barbarian side, since the DR isn't really much to get excited about.

The opposite side:
Swordsage. Lots of support for the barbarian side. Probably a more directly-offensive than the other options. Combine with some tripping stuff for run, since barbs make great trippers.
Warblade/bard. More a support role, using Song of the White Raven, and probably focusing on a combination of Inspire Courage + White Raven maneuvers.
Bard/warchanter. Support again, but a very different kind. Thrown in a bit of Inspire Courage optimization along with the warchanter's special songs for making your allies into serious beatsticks too.

Daelen
2010-07-02, 10:40 PM
Depending on what you have available to you as races... I built a disturbingly effective character. It was perfectly doable without gestalt but with gestalt it changed a bit.

Warforged Lion Totem Barbarian 20//Fighter 4/X 1(I chose Rogue but there are better choices out there)/Warforged Juggernaut 5/Frenzied Berserker 10. Focus on charging, dropping your AC instead of AB with Power Attack during a charge with Shock Trooper, and ludicrous amounts of damage. I wasn't able to fit in the Leap Attack feats I don't think, but I can't remember the entire feat progression.

Dr.Epic
2010-07-02, 10:45 PM
Gotta go fighter. Bonus feats with Barbarian rage and hit points will turn you into a beast. Not to mention with a fighter you get to wear heavy armor.

Thrawn183
2010-07-02, 10:49 PM
I would just say rogue. Good skills, good reflex saves, trapfinding, sneak attack and some special abilities.

gallagher
2010-07-02, 10:55 PM
Gotta go fighter. Bonus feats with Barbarian rage and hit points will turn you into a beast. Not to mention with a fighter you get to wear heavy armor.

not if you wanna use barbarian stuff. IIRC you can only do your barbarian stuff when in medium armor

Runestar
2010-07-02, 11:00 PM
not if you wanna use barbarian stuff. IIRC you can only do your barbarian stuff when in medium armor

Heavy armour disables only fast movement (which becomes moot if you swap it out for pounce). Stuff like rage and dr still work. :smallsmile:

Darth Stabber
2010-07-02, 11:10 PM
With out a doubt totemist.
Reasons
1)Keep Illiteracy! (Totemist is the only official base class that allows this)
2)Staying 2stat dependent (CON and STR)
3)Abilities that do not use actions work well for gestalt meleers
4)Magic that works while raging
5)RP a freaking animal, you have no civilized class to moderate your animal nature, you are the definitive savage in gestalt.
6)Free weapons
7)You don't need a good will save do you? Of course not!
8)Partial Skill monkey capacity (provided you don't want social skills, and let's face it animal, you don't, they're for sissies)
9)Feats are a crutch, magical beast parts growing out of you is what you really want.
10)Rebuild your character on a daily basis (just pick different magical beast parts), Fighters can't do that with their namby pamby feats.
11)Spitting acid, fatiguing touch, and having 4 arms makes you win. Period.

Seriously, this combo is D&D on powerthirst.

Also be a Dwarf or Half-Orc (who needs CHA, when you eat awesome and crap excellence. You may be ugly, but I dare someone to call you on it.)

@Thrawn - Barbarians do have trapfinding, it's called d12hitdie and good fort save.

Alternately - Binder has a few useful vestiges, and Dragon shaman have abilities to use while raging.

gallagher
2010-07-02, 11:13 PM
Heavy armour disables only fast movement (which becomes moot if you swap it out for pounce). Stuff like rage and dr still work. :smallsmile:ah, the sadistic DM in me is telling me that since the original ability (fast movement) only works in medium armor or lighter, then it would be fair to only give you the one you are replacing it with (pounce or improved trip) seeing as both are already better that the original in more situations.

yeah, charging an extra 20 feet is great, but pounce is much better. improved trip gives you AoOs when raging, which i also like more for the free feat that is important for trip builds. your strength is already through the roof, and if you can suck up an LA, with a large build or half minotaur would kill.

heavy armor reduces your speed, so your footspeed is taxed even further, topping out at 20 feet for a human. when i play barbarians i go with light armor anyway. then again, i never play a barbarian that cant afford a mithral CS

HunterOfJello
2010-07-02, 11:16 PM
If your DM doesn't enforce multiclass penalties then I would mix in levels from Rogue, Fighter and Warblade.


Don't forget to use some good barbarian alternate class features. Barbarians have tons of acf options.

gallagher
2010-07-02, 11:16 PM
With out a doubt totemist.
Reasons
1)Keep Illiteracy! (Totemist is the only official base class that allows this)
2)Staying 2stat dependent (CON and STR)
3)Abilities that do not use actions work well for gestalt meleers
4)Magic that works while raging
5)RP a freaking animal, you have no civilized class to moderate your animal nature, you are the definitive savage in gestalt.
6)Free weapons
7)You don't need a good will save do you? Of course not!
8)Partial Skill monkey capacity (provided you don't want social skills, and let's face it animal, you don't, they're for sissies)
9)Feats are a crutch, magical beast parts growing out of you is what you really want.
10)Rebuild your character on a daily basis (just pick different magical beast parts), Fighters can't do that with their namby pamby feats.
11)Spitting acid, fatiguing touch, and having 4 arms makes you win. Period.

Seriously, this combo is D&D on powerthirst.

Also be a Dwarf or Half-Orc (who needs CHA, when you eat awesome and crap excellence. You may be ugly, but I dare someone to call you on it.)

@Thrawn - Barbarians do have trapfinding, it's called d12hitdie and good fort save.

Alternately - Binder has a few useful vestiges, and Dragon shaman have abilities to use while raging.

this, /thread

Eldariel
2010-07-02, 11:18 PM
Druid would honestly be fine. Use out-of-combat buffs, Wildshape and rip things apart as a rabid wolverine.

mabriss lethe
2010-07-03, 12:18 AM
Binder, definitely.

It opens up so many nice roles to a barbarian, can compliment the class without MAD if necessary. It allows you to pick up any combination of things like precision damage, natural weaponry, 24 hr buffs. Offensive blasty powers..... And they all work while raging.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-07-03, 12:40 AM
I'll agree that Bard would be a superb choice. Wait a few levels and grab enough Warblade to get Iron Heart Surge and take Song of the White Raven. If you need Trapfinding dip one level into Spellthief and be sure to grab Master Spellthief for Sublime Chord shenanigans later. Inspire Courage + Whirling Frenzy is amazing, and the character won't be useless in noncombat situations. You can also use Arcane Strike while raging, and don't forget that bards can get cure spells and use wands. You could even take Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) if you don't want to use Sublime Chord.

If going Rogue, at least use the Martial Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) variant, which is actually even better than taking Fighter.

If you want to use Druid, consider taking Master of Many Forms and later Warshaper for amazing combat forms.

Some sort of Wizard/Incantatrix or DMM Cleric + Anyspell build on the other side for persistent buffs would also be extremely powerful, but you may not want to go that far.

BobVosh
2010-07-03, 12:55 AM
Be a barbarian's barbarian. Barbarian//Ogre/Warhulk/Frenzied barbarian.

Obviously you won't finish FB but you will get high enough to get the first upgrade to power attack.

Runestar
2010-07-03, 01:46 AM
heavy armor reduces your speed, so your footspeed is taxed even further, topping out at 20 feet for a human. when i play barbarians i go with light armor anyway. then again, i never play a barbarian that cant afford a mithral CS

Well, sometimes armour isn't really a choice, say a warforged barb who has taken the adamantine body feat. So may as well make the best out of a bad scenario and replace fast movement with pounce.

While you are at it, replace rage with the whirling frenzy UA variant. Now at 1st lv, you can make 2 attacks at the end of a charge. :smallbiggrin:

Then at 2nd lv, swap out uncanny dodge for improved trip. Now you can charge, make up to 2 trip attempts, followed by 2 attacks with a +4 to-hit bonus. :smallcool: