PDA

View Full Version : Non ToB Melee Build Help.



SuperCracker
2010-07-03, 01:53 PM
We're playing in an 11th level campaign, currently. Started at 8th level. I played a single class Warblade, while everyone else stayed relatively close to core. The DM seems to be scared of ToB, and has politely asked if I would play something else. I agreed.

Due to roleplaying reasons, though, I want to keep the character's identity the same, just switch up his classes and whatnot.

Since it's the same character, he's still a human. He was a power attacker, before, so I think I'll keep that going (unless someone has a good argument for maybe TWF). From what I suspect, no Magic of Incarnum, no Tome of Battle, no Psionics, and no Tome of Magic. Otherwise, I think everything else 3.5 is fair game.

I put this Dervish build together, since I like being able to move and make full attacks. I'm also willing to forego Dervish entirely if something better comes along. But anyway, here's my tentative build. HP is calculated using RPGA rules (auto hp, 1/2 of hit die per level).

Current build progresses Dervish until it's finished, then who knows.

Jin
Fighter 5, Dervish 4, Exotic Weapon Master 2
Neutral Good Human
Str 22 (+2 level, +4 enh.), Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
HD 6d10 + 5d8 + 22; hp 77 – Current:
Init + 2, Spd 35 ft
AC 26 (+8 [+3 mithral breast plate], +2 Dex, +2 ring of deflection, +2 amulet of natural armor, +1 Dervish, +1 insight [Ioun Stone]) touch 16, Flat-footed 22
Base Atk +11/+6/+1; Grp +15
Atk +20/+15/+10 melee (1d10 + 16/19-20, +2 adamantine katana (bastard sword), +6 str (12 strength for damage), +1 Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization)
Atk +17/+13/+8 melee (1d6 + 6/18-20, mwk scimitar, +6 str)
Atk +14/+9/+4 ranged (1d8 + 4/x3, mw longbow, +2 dex, mighty +4)
SQ Dervish Dance 2/day, Movement Mastery, Slashing Blades, Dance of Death, Fast Movement +5 ft.
SA: Uncanny Blow, Trip Attack
SV Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +7 (+2 cloak of resistance)

Skills: 78 (Fighter 40, Exotic Weapon Master 10, Dervish 28)
Balance +11 (2dex+8r+2syn-1check)
Climb +15 (6str+8r+2gear-1check)
Craft: (weapon) +5 (2int+3r)
Intimidate +10 (-1cha+11r)
Jump +20 (6str+13r+2syn-1check)
Perform (dance) +11 (-1cha+14r)
Swim +12 (6str+8r-2check)
Tumble +16 (2dex+13r+2syn-1check)

Feats: Exotic Weapon Profiency: Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword, Power Attack, Improved Trip, Spring Attack

Equipment: Backpack, Climber’s Kit, Grappling Hook, Rope (50ft, hemp), Flint & Steel, Hooded lantern, Rations (x5), Whetstone, Explorer’s Outfit, Oil flask (x2), Waterskin, mw short sword, mw composite long bow +4, 50 arrows,
+2 adamantine bastard sword
+3 mithral breast plate
Ring of protection +2
Amulet of natural armor +2
+2 cloak of resistance
Belt of Giant’s Strength +4
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (+1 AC)

Schylerwalker
2010-07-03, 01:55 PM
I'd recommend swapping out Improved Trip for Combat Focus and then going down that feat tree, unless you're really keen on tripping people with a katana.

hamishspence
2010-07-03, 01:57 PM
There's easier ways than Dervish to move and get full attack (Lion Totem Barbarian in Complete Champion gets Pounce in exchange for Fast Movement)

And if you're going with Power Attack- two-handed is better, and a greatsword is better than a bastard sword without costing an extra feat.

Two-weapon fighting is very feat-intensive.

mabriss lethe
2010-07-03, 02:29 PM
well, to make up for lack of ToB versatility, what options are there?

I'd probably go with a fighter/babarian mix dipping heavily into Alternate Class Features to widen you array of options. Things like Dungeon Crasher or Trapkiller, Spirit lion totem, Street fighter... (well, really just pick up enough levels of fighter for dungeon crasher and then swap out for all the tasty ACFs you can eat at the barbarian buffet.

SuperCracker
2010-07-03, 02:30 PM
As it stands, I don't have the wisdom for the Combat Focus tree. And the reason I'm going with the bastard sword (katana for flavor) is to use Uncanny Blow with it.

Original character used a greatsword.

Frog Dragon
2010-07-03, 02:38 PM
GAH! The odd levels of fighter! In all seriousness. Taking fighter 5 is strictly worse compared to say... Fighter 4/barbarian 1. Assuming you're not playing with fixes.
For moving an full attacking, I'm partial to Travel Devotion (Complete Champion). It allows you swift action moves, letting you full attack or charge after moving with a swift action. You don't have much else to do with a swift action so its essentially free movement.
Weapon Specialization is strictly third rate. I recommend swapping that out.
EWM is a pretty good class, but the weapon is not. When 2h:ing a bastard sword and taking the feats, you're paying to deal LESS damage than normal. If you're set on EWM, I'd go look for a good weapon.
Taking travel devotion, you have little reason to take dervish, and thus you can free up the prereq feats and get something useful for them.
If you wish to trip, I recommend nabbing a reach weapon, maybe something like a spiked chain (I say like, because the Spiked Chain is overused and boring, IMO). Something that can be used to trip. Thus, with IMP trip and the trip ability of the EWM, you can really get trippy. (I apologize for that)
Nab Hold the Line to take out those pesky charging beasties. Were ToB allowed, I'd suggest getting Martial Stance for Thicket of Blades, to spell even more trippy doom to everyone near you, but almost the same effect can be obtained without. By using a two handed weapon with the combo, you can even handily take out anyone who actually gets adjecent to you.
Just my 2 cp. :smallsmile:
Edit: OP swordsage. Uncanny Blow does make the bastard sword somewhat useful, and tripping might not be such a good idea with it, but my other advice stands.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-03, 02:51 PM
+1 for Lion Totem Barbarian over odd levels in fighter. I'd dump Dervish entirely and grab some Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6, get some way to get large and enjoy the love that is Knockback and smacking people into the floor. Even if you only have one attack from tactical movement, you should be able to still do respectable damage.

EDIT: Rough idea: Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Barbarian 1/Exotic Weapon Master 2 with Uncanny Blow and Trip/Barbarian Prestige Class 2, probably Bear Warrior.

Not too sure about those last two levels, really.

Kylarra
2010-07-03, 02:51 PM
Saph's Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) may be up your alley. All core at the base, though it obviously can benefit from splats much like any other character.

Critical
2010-07-03, 02:58 PM
This (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick?pg=1), slightly tweaked to be Rogue 1/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Fighter x-1/Something 1, with Craven and Spiritual Lion Totem ACF, perhaps, with Horselord, if Dragon Mag is in?

SuperCracker
2010-07-03, 03:00 PM
Alright. Total agreement on the odd level of fighter. What was I thinking?

I'm looking it up right now, but what book is Lion Totem Barbarian in?

Going to drop the tripping bit. I take it that mostly works for folks with reach weapons.

Travel Devotion is good. Only works once a day. So, would I essentially take the feat two or three times?

Also, I'm digging Dungeoncrasher now that I've looked at it. That's a hell of a lot of damage.

hamishspence
2010-07-03, 03:01 PM
Complete Champion.

Critical
2010-07-03, 03:04 PM
Going to drop the tripping bit. I take it that mostly works for folks with reach weapons.
The build I posted has makes an AoO for every attack set on them, should be good enough. There are also various reach increases, such as friendly caster with Enlarge Person, Inhuman Reach(Lords of Madness), Deformity: Tall(Heroes of Horror). You could make yourself an item of continious Enlarge Person if your DM allows custom magic items made via DMG, too.

Frog Dragon
2010-07-03, 03:06 PM
Derp. Personally, I had completely missed the once per day part.

SuperCracker
2010-07-03, 03:21 PM
First: holy god that Jack build is insane. I dig. I'll keep that in mind.

Just looked up the Lion Totem. Anything I make will probably end up with one level of it for pounce.

Could also swap out weapon spec. for leap attack easily.

lsfreak
2010-07-03, 03:31 PM
Travel Devotion is good. Only works once a day. So, would I essentially take the feat two or three times?

Generally, you take a one-level dip in cleric (cloistered cleric from SRD, ideally), making your two domains Law and Travel (Air and Animal are decent backup ones), and immediately dropping them for their respective devotion feats. Down the road, once you've put plenty of points into Knowledge skills, you do the same with Knowledge Devotion if you went cloistered cleric (you can trade a domain for a Devotion feat at any time, though it's non-reversible).

However, in general I prefer a barbarian dip with Pounce (ACF, CChamp), Whirling Frenzy (ACF, SRD), and Extra Rage (feat, CWarrior). Take a second level of barbarian and trade out Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip (ACF, SRD) and grab Knock-down (feat, SRD) if you still want to trip.

If you're going Weapon Specialization, consider grabbing Weapon Mastery and Slashing Fury. Against low-AC opponents or with high enough +atk boosters yourself (like Law Devotion+Knowledge Devotion as a good base) it can help drop people a lot faster.

Drop EWP:Bastard Sword. You have zero reason to take it. Wield your katana two-handed like it was meant to be, or use a falchion/greatsword and fluff it as a katana.


We're playing in an 11th level campaign, currently. Started at 8th level. I played a single class Warblade, while everyone else stayed relatively close to core. The DM seems to be scared of ToB, and has politely asked if I would play something else. I agreed.
Just something to keep in mind is that ToB isn't as high up on the damage scale as, say, a fighter/barbarian. The fighter/barbarian will need a decent amount of optimization (the kind of stuff we're showing you); if your group is fairly unoptimized that ToB can appear overpowering, as can the stuff we're offering (pounce is one of the biggest things low-op groups have problems with, in my experience. Point out that a melee having to choose to attack+move or full attack is something like like limiting a wizard to a 3rd level spell on any round in which moved, and suddenly all his spells are touch range too). ToB adds options, not 'moar damage!' which the fighter is already pretty damn good at.

Morph Bark
2010-07-03, 04:02 PM
How about Duskblade? PHBII, has some spellcasting and flavour-wise could be made very very similar to a Warblade. Hell, half the name is the same!

Prodan
2010-07-03, 04:07 PM
Paladin 2/Sorcerer6/Eldritch Knight 3

Use Polymorph.

Critical
2010-07-03, 04:09 PM
Paladin 2/Sorcerer6/Eldritch Knight 3

Use Polymorph.

You meant Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8?

Prodan
2010-07-03, 04:10 PM
I figure keeping things in core will get it allowed more easily. Also, makes a better point.

Milskidasith
2010-07-03, 04:11 PM
Paladin 2/Sorcerer6/Eldritch Knight 3

Use Polymorph.

Why eldritch knight over, say, Abj Champ 3? (Or whenever you qualify for entry). Strictly superior, AFAIK.

Prodan
2010-07-03, 04:12 PM
Scroll up.

Critical
2010-07-03, 04:21 PM
By the way, I remembered that there are one-handed reach weapons - Kusari-Gama from the DMG, under Asian weapons, kind of might fit your Katana theme(if you don't want katana just to have a katana, but to have a flavourful character) and would work with most AoO builds! :smallsmile: