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gallagher
2010-07-05, 12:52 AM
what is the best gestalt class to go with swordsage? i know alot of people say druid, but i am not really great with druids, and i dont want to do unarmed swordsage.

im really into desert storm and setting sun, is there a good combo that can focus on these two schools? would there be room for tiger claw to maximize the potential of this build?

Keld Denar
2010-07-05, 01:26 AM
PsyWar is pretty handy. There are some powers like Adrenaline Surge that are great to pop right before you initiate a big throw to get the best bonus. Then there's Hustle, because you can never have too many move actions and Greater Concealing Amorphia to give you a great miss chance to combine with Pearl of Black Doubt stance and Form of Doom because...well, because EVERYTHING is better with tentacles!

lol!

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-05, 01:36 AM
Incarnate gestalts well with pretty much anything.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-07-05, 01:37 AM
Cloistered Cleric with some DMM Persisted buffs works well.

Keld Denar
2010-07-05, 01:39 AM
Incarnate gestalts well with pretty much anything.

Totemist would also be decent. Get some Girallon Claws and go nuts with Girallon Windmill Fleshrip.

Escheton
2010-07-05, 01:39 AM
all the way or dips?
Because a clericdip for a domain or feat here and there is always good.
Most wisclasses do well either way.
Binder and totemist are fun to go with.
Crusader and warblade mix well with everything.
Monstrous classes can be nice.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-05, 01:39 AM
Totemist would also be decent. Get some Girallon Claws and go nuts with Girallon Windmill Fleshrip.

Hell yes! More Girallon than your body has room for!

Marriclay
2010-07-05, 01:40 AM
If you're really up on maneuvers, Warblade gives you more and essentially gives you access to every different school in the game, and you get more per encounter.

I agree with Incarnate though - in gestalt you want one side of your build to be passive (sitting pretty and giving you bonuses) while the other's active (Eating your actions), and you can't get much more passive than day long magic items

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-05, 01:44 AM
If you're really up on maneuvers, Warblade gives you more and essentially gives you access to every different school in the game, and you get more per encounter.

I would be somewhat wary of gestalting two initiator classes for the same reason I would be somewhat wary of gestalting two spellcasters. You'll have a heck of a lot of maneuvers, but can still only use one per round. If, on the other hand, you gestalt an initiator with something that gives it power without competing for actions, you may be better off.

Edit Ninja'd

Marriclay
2010-07-05, 01:59 AM
Edit Ninja'd

Nuh uh. Swordsage'd.

Keld Denar
2010-07-05, 02:07 AM
So...charing your Incarnum Weapon takes a move action, and most strikes are a standard action.

Am I sensing a full attack alternative? Stun tek awwwww yea!

EDIT: Thats assuming you can initiate strikes with an Incarnum Weapon?

Dracons
2010-07-05, 02:09 AM
Why not a Rogue? Or even a straight fighter, to have all those bonus feats.


Or Duskblade....


I'll shut up. I suck at advice.

Marriclay
2010-07-05, 02:10 AM
EDIT: Thats assuming you can initiate strikes with an Incarnum Weapon?

As long as you can use it as a weapon, you could initiate strikes with a bucket. Tiger Claw maneuvers are the only ones I know of that require you to have a specific fighting style, and even then it doesn't mention what weapons you have to hold

Morph Bark
2010-07-05, 04:18 AM
Why not a Rogue? Or even a straight fighter, to have all those bonus feats.


Or Duskblade....


I'll shut up. I suck at advice.

Nonono, Swordsage//Monk! :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2010-07-05, 04:56 AM
It depends, but I'd put classes in three categories for this, basically (some are in several, depending on how you use them):

Classes with active powers: most initiators, a lot of mages, especially when not highly optimized. Basically, these are classes which have powers activated as a standard action or less, which give you a direct attack option against enemies. Since the swordsage is already one of these, most won't help much.

Classes with defensive powers: i.e. buffers. I'd put the druid, via wildshape here, as well as most applications of incarnum and some psychic powers. You activate them, they give you a long lasting buff. These synergize well with an active class.

Classes with permanent class powers: fighters, monks, other classes with static defenses. These buff you a little, with less management than a buff class, usually. Static defenses really are never entirely wrong. Now, you can probably use a full base attack, and extra feats aren't bad either.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-05, 05:24 AM
You only have to be careful with the action economy. Swordsages are suckers for swift actions, so if most of your other class' stuff comes in swift actions and doesn't last long, you'll not be any more powerful.

That said, my first advice is psychic warrior. It offers excellent synergy, keeps you always armed, and adds some tricks up your sleeve(Avalanche with Strength of My Enemy/vampiric blade. I dare you).

That said...if you pick druid, can you initiate maneuvers in wild shape? If so, a tiger claw swordsage would be excellent.

huttj509
2010-07-05, 05:31 AM
That said...if you pick druid, can you initiate maneuvers in wild shape? If so, a tiger claw swordsage would be excellent.

Now with real tiger claws!

playswithfire
2010-07-05, 06:43 AM
Personally, I like Barbarian//Swordsage, but I don't play casters very much, so my advice is geared towards melee. If you want setting sun, you might want to at least dip two levels in Wolf-totem barbarian to pick up Improved Trip without needing Combat Expertise or 13 INT.

NotMe
2010-07-05, 07:21 AM
The best combination class for gestalt will depend on what you are aiming for; are you gestalting to cover weaknesses, improve flexibility or trying to increase power in one area (presumably combat if you're going with a swordsage)?

Totemist and druid are both excellent options, but lend themselves more to natural weapon fighting.

Cleric may be your best choice, with a good fortitude save, using persisted / extended / quickened spells to buff then primarily using strikes and boosts in combat. Wisdom synergy is good, and cleric/swordsage will also have plenty to do outside of combat with spells and skills (from swordsage). Although metamagic is likely to eat a few feats, this shouldn't be too much of a problem as there are relatively few must have feats needed for swordsage.

Psychic warrior is likly to be a bit like cleric in terms of the buff and strike approach, but you'll gain feats at the expense of spells. Psycic warriors are also less flexible than a cleric outside of combat.

If you want to steer clear of magic / psionics and want to go for a hit and run approach then you could do a lot worse than scout, as bonus feats, more skills and skill list and mobility will all be of use.

Another approach is to stay swordsage for one side of the build and dip classes for the other side to increase flexibility. Rogue, barbarian, fighter and cleric can all be useful in a level or 2 dip. Some players and DMs also like this approach as you can respond to events in the campain with your choices.

That being said, a swordsage is probably not the optimal choice for gestalt, as the best results tend to come from combining 2 classes that are specialists in their area where each covers the others weaknesses. Where swordsage is already to some extent a combination class (partial BAB, ok hit dice, reasonable skills) you are unlikely to find something that complements it to the extent that (for example) a psion / warblade compliments each other.

Greenish
2010-07-05, 07:48 AM
That said...if you pick druid, can you initiate maneuvers in wild shape?I don't see why you couldn't. Claws are even one of Tiger Claw's favoured weapons.

Incarnates have all kinds of fun tools, though, I recommend looking into them.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-05, 07:55 AM
Swordsage//Psyrog (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) would be cool. You'd probably be better served by something like Swordsage//Ardent, though (and honestly, much cooler too: get the mantle that gives claws, then use it with Tiger Claw).

Roc Ness
2010-07-05, 08:11 AM
I'm not sure about all that many (good) offensive uses of swordsage in gestalt, but, that said, it works great with skill monkeys. For one thing, Shadow Hand nets you 50-ft teleports, stances that let you spider-climb and air-walk. Really useful for getting around...

I think there was also something in Setting Sun that gets you an extra 5-foot step per round, so you could gestalt with scout...