Vitruviansquid
2010-07-05, 04:45 AM
Writing this more or less to sort out my own thoughts, but any comments is also appreciated.
I like Fire Emblem's stat system a lot because it's very complex and, at the same time, pretty elegant. What each stat does (aside from luck) is intuitive, as well as they way each stat interacts with each other, and each stat is truly unique (aside from luck >_>) in fulfilling a function that no other does. In writing a tabletop RPG, I want to use a system of stats much like it (rather than, say, DnD) because
A. There's no such thing as a useless stat. Every stat comes into play for every characterin every fight, unlike in DnD, where fighters never really need intelligence and wizards never really need strength.
B. The stats are conscious of themselves as a game. What I mean is that the stats are nothing more or less than fragments of a mathematical system, whereas in DnD, the stats are used for the math, but also play a role in the personalities of the characters. Imo, the Fire Emblem system in a game would allow players more flexibility in roleplaying because it doesn't restrict a player's conception of his character with game numbers.
C. It's more complex from a mechanical point of view. In DnD 4e, there is no differentiation between the accuracy of an attack and its damage, aside from the fact that you have to roll for both, by which I mean there's no attack that asks you to roll one stat for trying to hit and add another stat's multiplier for damage (though some abilities has you add 2 stat multipliers for damage). Seems weird to me to take for granted that a powerful hit is the same as an accurate hit in most places (I think it works this way because of what AC represents)
Of course, we run into problems if we tried to directly impose Fire Emblem's system on a tabletop RPG because it's designed for a strategy game.
A. Fire Emblem's system isn't and doesn't pretend to be fair in the context of an RPG. It's okay in a strategy game to have your myrmidon be too weak to do any damage against a knight or for your fighter to have a 0% chance to hit a myrmidon because it's an implicit failing of strategy on your part. In an RPG, it would be very frustrating to be told your character can never do damage because the enemy just happens to counter what your character can do.
B. Fire Emblem's system being purely concerned with battle is a double edged sword. In Fire Emblem, the only rolls that are ever made are to check for hitting and to check for critting. What, then, do we do about skill challenges? It's clear to me that Fire Emblem's stat system is also *not complicated enough* in its own way. It needs to be expanded or supplemented in order to hold its own as a complete system for RP. Of course, one of the main things that it lacks is it has no logic of balance. We take for granted that some characters in Fire Emblem will be better than others
So what do we do to adapt Fire Emblem's system into something suitable for a tabletop RPG without losing its strong points?
1. I've drawn up the statistics as the following:
Might - controls how much damage an attack deals, like Strength or Magic
Precision - controls how high you have to roll for an attack to land, like Skill
Resilience - controls how high you have to roll to break out of or resist status effects
Constitution - Multiplied by some number and then possibly added to an arbitrary number based on class to determine a character's hit points. I'm using Constitution in place of Defense.
Evasion - Controls how high enemies have to roll for attacks to land on you, a la Speed.
Class stat - Each class has a unique stat that does something extra for them, helping to differentiate them (which Fire Emblem is actually extremely weak on). This takes care of stuff from controlling the power of rider effects to acting like DnD's "class features."
Movement speed is set by class.
Of course, the first thing one might notice is I've thrown out Luck. Not only does it not do anything unique (besides crits, but I'm handling crits as natural 20's), it complicates calculations.
The second thing is that there's no Defense as damage reduction. Instead, its mirror stat, Constitution, will just add hp. Hopefully, this will negate the headache of high Precision/low Might characters doing almost no damage to high defense enemies and feeling ineffectual. Since this will be implemented, I don't see why double-attacking would be needed, either. However, I like Double-attacking as a punishment for trying "dump" a stat... perhaps I will look into penalizing characters in some other way for dumping Evasion and Might.
Third, most players don't want to roll dice to see if they level up a stat. Frankly, me neither. However, this is one of the cornerstones of the Fire Emblem system and the main (okay... only) thing that differentiates one character or class from another. For levelling stats, I've decided on a system where players point-buy their stats, but each stat costs more or less depending on their class. For instance, each person gets 6 points to spend on stats when they level up, but perhaps for his class, Might will cost 2 points to level up each time while Precision costs 4. I'm not so concerned about people min-maxing because every stat matters.
Now, I think this is a pretty good start, but in DnD, people cast magic and do martial exploits and such that isn't really modeled in Fire Emblem, where each character just attacks each other until one falls down. The same problem happens for accessing those magic/martial abilities - in DnD, they're tied to level, and your character feels stronger when he levels because you get new abilities, not just because you get bigger numbers to throw around. Frankly, I'm not sure how to best handle that.
I think, when dealing with spells and special abilities, it's important to keep the basic stats relevant. As long as a wizard is going to sling fireballs all the time, I don't see why we should have a whole separate stat controlling the power of fireballs over the power of swinging a sword. On the other hand, I do like how DnD 4e sometimes separates the stat used for damaging someone with a spell from the stat used for rider effects, letting players decide whether to concentrate on purely hitting people or to exploit their skills' advantages. This, of course, is where the class unique stats come in.
I like Fire Emblem's stat system a lot because it's very complex and, at the same time, pretty elegant. What each stat does (aside from luck) is intuitive, as well as they way each stat interacts with each other, and each stat is truly unique (aside from luck >_>) in fulfilling a function that no other does. In writing a tabletop RPG, I want to use a system of stats much like it (rather than, say, DnD) because
A. There's no such thing as a useless stat. Every stat comes into play for every characterin every fight, unlike in DnD, where fighters never really need intelligence and wizards never really need strength.
B. The stats are conscious of themselves as a game. What I mean is that the stats are nothing more or less than fragments of a mathematical system, whereas in DnD, the stats are used for the math, but also play a role in the personalities of the characters. Imo, the Fire Emblem system in a game would allow players more flexibility in roleplaying because it doesn't restrict a player's conception of his character with game numbers.
C. It's more complex from a mechanical point of view. In DnD 4e, there is no differentiation between the accuracy of an attack and its damage, aside from the fact that you have to roll for both, by which I mean there's no attack that asks you to roll one stat for trying to hit and add another stat's multiplier for damage (though some abilities has you add 2 stat multipliers for damage). Seems weird to me to take for granted that a powerful hit is the same as an accurate hit in most places (I think it works this way because of what AC represents)
Of course, we run into problems if we tried to directly impose Fire Emblem's system on a tabletop RPG because it's designed for a strategy game.
A. Fire Emblem's system isn't and doesn't pretend to be fair in the context of an RPG. It's okay in a strategy game to have your myrmidon be too weak to do any damage against a knight or for your fighter to have a 0% chance to hit a myrmidon because it's an implicit failing of strategy on your part. In an RPG, it would be very frustrating to be told your character can never do damage because the enemy just happens to counter what your character can do.
B. Fire Emblem's system being purely concerned with battle is a double edged sword. In Fire Emblem, the only rolls that are ever made are to check for hitting and to check for critting. What, then, do we do about skill challenges? It's clear to me that Fire Emblem's stat system is also *not complicated enough* in its own way. It needs to be expanded or supplemented in order to hold its own as a complete system for RP. Of course, one of the main things that it lacks is it has no logic of balance. We take for granted that some characters in Fire Emblem will be better than others
So what do we do to adapt Fire Emblem's system into something suitable for a tabletop RPG without losing its strong points?
1. I've drawn up the statistics as the following:
Might - controls how much damage an attack deals, like Strength or Magic
Precision - controls how high you have to roll for an attack to land, like Skill
Resilience - controls how high you have to roll to break out of or resist status effects
Constitution - Multiplied by some number and then possibly added to an arbitrary number based on class to determine a character's hit points. I'm using Constitution in place of Defense.
Evasion - Controls how high enemies have to roll for attacks to land on you, a la Speed.
Class stat - Each class has a unique stat that does something extra for them, helping to differentiate them (which Fire Emblem is actually extremely weak on). This takes care of stuff from controlling the power of rider effects to acting like DnD's "class features."
Movement speed is set by class.
Of course, the first thing one might notice is I've thrown out Luck. Not only does it not do anything unique (besides crits, but I'm handling crits as natural 20's), it complicates calculations.
The second thing is that there's no Defense as damage reduction. Instead, its mirror stat, Constitution, will just add hp. Hopefully, this will negate the headache of high Precision/low Might characters doing almost no damage to high defense enemies and feeling ineffectual. Since this will be implemented, I don't see why double-attacking would be needed, either. However, I like Double-attacking as a punishment for trying "dump" a stat... perhaps I will look into penalizing characters in some other way for dumping Evasion and Might.
Third, most players don't want to roll dice to see if they level up a stat. Frankly, me neither. However, this is one of the cornerstones of the Fire Emblem system and the main (okay... only) thing that differentiates one character or class from another. For levelling stats, I've decided on a system where players point-buy their stats, but each stat costs more or less depending on their class. For instance, each person gets 6 points to spend on stats when they level up, but perhaps for his class, Might will cost 2 points to level up each time while Precision costs 4. I'm not so concerned about people min-maxing because every stat matters.
Now, I think this is a pretty good start, but in DnD, people cast magic and do martial exploits and such that isn't really modeled in Fire Emblem, where each character just attacks each other until one falls down. The same problem happens for accessing those magic/martial abilities - in DnD, they're tied to level, and your character feels stronger when he levels because you get new abilities, not just because you get bigger numbers to throw around. Frankly, I'm not sure how to best handle that.
I think, when dealing with spells and special abilities, it's important to keep the basic stats relevant. As long as a wizard is going to sling fireballs all the time, I don't see why we should have a whole separate stat controlling the power of fireballs over the power of swinging a sword. On the other hand, I do like how DnD 4e sometimes separates the stat used for damaging someone with a spell from the stat used for rider effects, letting players decide whether to concentrate on purely hitting people or to exploit their skills' advantages. This, of course, is where the class unique stats come in.